Trip Report to Kiev

[Faux Pas]

ambach,

On the time considerations, a marginal bit of time depends on the service center you have to submit to based on your locale. My particular one is Vermont. It is currently 8 months out by the website. Then a couple more months for an interview. FWIW

[ambach123]

Gator, thanks for the comments; I appreciate your concerns.

 We have hundreds of photographs of her, of us together while in Kiev. When I got back I looked at the photographs; pictures don't lie. Her body language as captured in the pictures was very telling. I made the decision after I looked at the pictures, until then I was not convinced; this is a couple deeply in love with each other. Both of us saw these same pictures through the magic of internet, and both of us had exactly the same reaction; we jumped with joy.

One is lucky, if true love happens even once in a lifetime.

There is an old movie, in which the late Audrey Hepburn played a woman in love with Gregory Peck. Audrey Hepburn got an oscar for it. The point is that nowhere in the movie, she expresses in words her love for Mr. Peck, but her body language speaks volumes, enough to earn her an oscar in her very first movie. It was called " Roman Holiday ".

We want to have children,  she is almost 30.

I understand that this is risky, but I am not so sure that spending more time together provides any additional stability to the marriage; people who live together before marriage, divorce more often than who don't.

Not to mention the fact that during all this time, she has never accepted a dime from me.

I believe, either you have love and affection for each other from the get go, or you don't , and it does not change over time.

I have taken into account your assertion that how a couple resolve their differences, is very important, I would watch for that; even though we have not had any differences yet, but we would have them certainly.

[BillyB]

First time ready this thread in it's entirety.

I don't have a problem with guys going into details about intimacy as long as they are sincerely looking for a life partner and not using women. There are a lot of lurkers wondering if RW are better lovers or cold fish compared to women of other cultures. The only thing is Ambach that you are taking a big risk if she ever reads this as it may not please her and damage your relationship beyond repair. As far as I'm concerned, you both are anonymous and many guys can only wish for the intimacy you are getting. Although she came on strong and fast, she did wait for you to see if you would make the move on the first night. You went to sleep in another room and she probably respected that you weren't after only one thing from her.

Your lady seems to have taken your request for a prenup gracefully and tyring to prove to you money is not important to her. Besides describing what is your separate assets on your prenupt, make sure you include language that describes everything you build together in marriage is community and will be split 50/50 whether she works or not. Since you two have agreed to marry, tell her what you make and that you are going to share that with her 50/50 on paper. Some of what you earn will go to assets that will depreciate such as automobiles or appreciate such as property. Also state what alimony you will be paying according to state guidelines. Sharing with her 50/50 is not the sign of a greedy selfish man but a fair man. It will also give her comfort that she will be financially in good shape if you two do divorce and that you will not fight to take 100% of everything.

IMO, your next visit should be to meet her family on her turf and seeing how she acts around her family and environment. You need to build friendly relations with her family. With them on your side, they will help kick your lady out of the country. After all, you did say she has strong bonds with her family.

[Misha]

I understand that this is risky, but I am not so sure that spending more time together provides any additional stability to the marriage; people who live together before marriage, divorce more often than who don't.

I believe, either you have love and affection for each other from the get go, or you don't , and it does not change over time.

A few observations.

The stats with regards to spending more time together and marriage invariably refer to people who live together for months or years and then marry. Yes, the divorce rates are a bit higher for those couple who did not live together before marriage. However, this did not mean that they did not necessarily know each other well. They are just as likely to have dated for months (if not years before marriage) even if they did not live together.

Also, you should be careful not to confuse chemistry and affection for love. Yes, it is good that there is chemistry, but will there be love once it wears off? Keep in mind that the euphoria associated with "falling in love" lasts a year or so. Sooner or later the natural high of being in love wears off. If you are lucky you can drag it out a bit longer, but it won't last forever. Once it is gone, will it be replaced by true love? Will you still be a compatible couple?

I am not saying that true love won't blossom, but I do agree with what Gator has written. One week is not a lot of time. You will return twice, but the next visit will be a whirlwind trip where you meet all her relatives (i.e. not much time together) and another over Christmas where you will have the excitement of the holidays (and likely much vodka and champagne in the mix). The first trip also was more of a holiday than typical daily life. These are not necessarily the best times to understand how you will be together as a couple dealing with the day to day grind of daily life.

I do hope things will work out for both of you, but both of you should be very careful to think this through carefully.

[ScottinCrimea]

Just a couple of thoughts:

People can fall in lust in one week, but love takes a bit longer.

If you find yourself rationalizing your relationship it's time to step back and rethink things.

[IAmZon]

So much could be said ... so much advise could be given ... just, GOOD LUCK.

I have a hard time taking these "point and click" relationships seriously.  (123, I remember you mentioning a GREAT deal of communication in advance.  The Victorian Romantic in me wants to believe - and God those Russian girls can make you fall in love with a letter!  The effort, the detail ... it pulls on the heart strings and makes the head sleep).  BUT DAMN BOY!  You got to get into a couple of good arguments first!

Otherwise, it is just like picking a prize behind door number 1,2, or 3.  Again just my opinion.

Off thread,  on the topic of visitation and immigration, I have noticed that many members seem to gracefully side step the K1 by a mixture of student and sponsorships (all seem easy enough with financial resources).  Are there limitations in regards to the AM spending time in the woman's country, or a third country for an extended time.  Does this confuse the process?

Gracias

[Ade]

Just a couple of thoughts:

People can fall in lust in one week, but love takes a bit longer.

If you find yourself rationalizing your relationship it's time to step back and rethink things.

I'd second this.

Ambach, if you are calling this true love after being together for less than a week then I have to doubt your judgement and experience. You can be infatuated and in lust after a week together or even 5 minutes, but true abiding love takes some time more. Although I'm not saying it will not develop into love, I'd caution common sense and taking things one day at a time before making a life long commitment to someone you hardly know.

[ScottinCrimea]

Off thread,  on the topic of visitation and immigration, I have noticed that many members seem to gracefully side step the K1 by a mixture of student and sponsorships (all seem easy enough with financial resources).  Are there limitations in regards to the AM spending time in the woman's country, or a third country for an extended time.  Does this confuse the process?

Gracias

You have to have a US residence to do the application.  I lived in Ukraine for two years so I returned to the US for six months prior to doing the application for my wife.  As long as you maintain some kind of address in the US, though, it shouldn't make any difference where you spend your time.

[ambach123]

I believe the K1 is now taking eight months or more.
I plan to see her at least three times or more during this period.

I also believe that you can withdraw the application almost anytime before the visa is issued without any penalty.

[kievstar]

Actually, in the USA couples who live together before marriage have a higher divorce rate than couples who did not live together.  Also, having a television in the bedroom leads to a very high divorce rate.  Based on Penn State University study:

The number of unmarried couples living together soared 12-fold from 430,000 in 1960 to 5.4 million in 2005.
More than eight out of ten couples who live together will break up either before the wedding or afterwards in divorce.
About 45 percent of those who begin cohabiting, do not marry. Another 5-10 percent continue living together and do not marry.
Couples who do marry after living together are 50% more likely to divorce than those who did not.
Only 12 percent of couples who have begun their relationship with cohabitation end up with a marriage lasting 10 years or more.
A Penn State study reports that even a month’s cohabitation decreases the quality of the couple’s relationship.


I used this analysis as you have to be careful of the religious groups on the internet preaching that it is sin to live together.  One of the reasons living together before marriage causes more divorce is that you start sharing household bills and it is harder to breakup.  Also, families put pressure on getting married.