That was then, this is now

[dispozo]

  How many American mothers you know do that?  

Many!!!! It is called summer camp!!!!!!

[SANDRO43]

My parents sent me off to grandparents "dacha" (great place, by the way, deep in the woods of Northern Russia  I loved it there and I adored my grandparents and vice versa ) every summer for 3 months since I was 5 till I was 16.

So Russia is not immune from the Western stereotype that grandparents will always spoil their grandchildren ?

[Misha]

How many American mothers you know do that?   

I grew up on a farm so going to a dacha would not have been that radical of a change. However, I would go spend my summer's with my grandparents on their farm. I don't think that Russia has a monopoly on loving grandparents either.

[KenC]

My parents sent me off to grandparents "dacha" (great place, by the way, deep in the woods of Northern Russia  I loved it there and I adored my grandparents and vice versa ) every summer for 3 months since I was 5 till I was 16.   How many American mothers you know do that?   

My brother and I spent our summers at my grandparent's "dacha" on the banks of Lake Erie in Canada.  So, there's one!
KenC

[Ooooops]

Many!!!! It is called summer camp!!!!!!

Yeah, there are also boot camps, but we are talking about loving parents here, right?   

[Ooooops]

So Russia is not immune from the Western stereotype that grandparents will always spoil their grandchildren ?

I was the first one and got the major share of their love 

[SANDRO43]

I was the first one and got the major share of their love 

Lucky you, I was my father's parents' only grandchild and they never spoiled me, including my Russian grandmother. Absolutely unfair, some people get all the good breaks  !

[dispozo]

but we are talking about loving parents here, right?   

That explains why, I was always the last kid picked up! 

[Ooooops]

I grew up on a farm so going to a dacha would not have been that radical of a change. However, I would go spend my summer's with my grandparents on their farm. I don't think that Russia has a monopoly on loving grandparents either.

I just call it dacha - my grandparents bought that 120 old wooden house in the rural village and made it a vacation home     When we got it (1969) that village didn't have any TVs or refrigerators or cars.   Lots of horses though, so I grew up riding them bareback    I loved that house... unfortunately it burnt down few years ago... 

[Ooooops]

My brother and I spent our summers at my grandparent's "dacha" on the banks of Lake Erie in Canada.  So, there's one!
KenC

Your parents wanted to take a brake from you two as well?..       Btw, my younger sister rarely spent any time at grandparents...  go figure...

[Ooooops]

Absolutely unfair, some people get all the good breaks  !

That's right, I'm very lovable!   

[Ooooops]

That explains why, I was always the last kid picked up! 

Sorry to burst your bubble, buddy...   

[msmoby_ru]

I would have to disagree with this based on my personal experience.  My ex was an excellent Mother to our children. 
Lena, my current Russian wife has an entirely different outlook on child raising.  As she was mostly raised by her Grandparents and attended a day care.  In speaking to many different women from the fsu, it seems that they pass a huge amount of the child raising burden onto the grandparents, almost to the point where their own involvement in the child's up bringing is secondary. 

I admit that these are only my experiences and others may be different.  There are good and bad mothers in both countries.  Let us not make RW into the "end all" of everything.  They have their good points and bad too.
KenC

Well Ken, speaking from my experience of FSUW who I know and met, I'd have to say that your observations aren't in common with mine ! ..


My Wife and her ex agreed that she would be "a stay at home Mum", and the ex didn't want her to start work again - even when their child was a teenager..

I've found the GrandMas to be very loyal to their Gkids -even post divorce, and even if the ex-MIL and ex-Wife don't see eye to eye - they try to remain civil - for the Kids sake..

Many women - aged 35 + grew up in Soviet  times when sharing a small apartment with 3 generations was typical, they had kids and the Gmother - as they shared the apartment - was of course heavily involved...

We can't make generalisations about whether FSUW or western women make better Mum's or not ... some do, some don't.. it depends on financial situations and the characters involved.

I wish I'd met my wife 20 years ago ..

[groovlstk]

Obviously everyone's experience is different, but the late, great Doug Salem had some very strong opinions on the topic of child-rearing by FSU parents who were themselves raised during Soviet times and struggled through the breakup of the SU. If you check the archives, I believe he went so far as to say that when his in-laws visited he'd have to "undo" some of their practices.

[Marc@LTP]

The good old days how do they compare to today.

Well I first started in 1994. I had thought this whole thing was nothing,but a scam so I went to work part time with a full service agency, I was going to see for myself if it was real or not! In 1 year I had Sean many men bring back there wife to be I was able see 1st hand what they acted like, and talk to many RW'S that came to the U.S. I was sold big time on the RW and what they had to offer.

Anyway communication was a joke we had to box's in the office 1 incoming mail and 1 out going mail. Men who went to Russia would pack there bags with stack of hand written letters, and hand carry the letters to the office in Russia, and on there way back they would do the same. This also included gifts sometimes a mans bag would be half packed with gifts a real pain!.   

So with computers 100% contact is better, but it also lead to many new and better scams by RW, and men who were not serous about an R.W. as a wife, and many men who only wented to play. So in my mind computers may have made it not as easy to find an good RW it just changed it and how to look for an RW for men that were serous about marriage.

My first trip to Russia Feb.1995. Like many I went for 1 RW, who I had meet in my office wile working part time for the Agency, She was cute as hell and things just did not work out with the man she came to the states for.

Flying into Moscow wow an old cargo plane converted to a passenger plane it felt like there was more room inside then a football field. It has 3 seats on each side and 4 seats in the middle row. Today's plains are better and safer, but less food an not as good food!

Landing at Moscow airport talk about feeling lost. The first was the captain announcing please shut all your window curtains this was to you could not take photos of the airport all I could think about was what the hell was I doing landing in Russia!

Next was getting through customs it seam like it took hours my first trip people would be pushing up agents you moving you forward and if they could cut in front of you they would this can still happen today, but no were near as bad as back in 1995.

Walking from customs to be picked up by the driver and interputer was a nightmare for me as I had two big bags and a carry on a ton of gifts from men and RW sending home to there family's I felt like I was caring the kitchen sink. There was so many people just out side customs the entrance was roped off and so tight I was having huge problems just getting my bags to fit through.

Airport travel to Moscow 100% better today!!!!!!

A bit latter I will post about how Russian people acted, meeting RW and later living in Russia and the changes from then and know as I saw it.

[Marc@LTP]

All never forget my first trip to Russia my first day was on a Sunday I was sitting out side in front of the office having something they called coffee. A man and maybe his granddaughter were the only Russian to be seen on the whole street. The man looked up an spoke these worlds to me amazing and American man in the middle of time square, and no KGB to be seen. My first thoughts was the Rocky moves were when Rocky went running there all ways was a car following him. My second thought was what the hell am I doing in Russia.

I told you I went there to meet 1 girl well needless to say it did not work out in 1 day I dumped her, and learned lesson one I will never go just to meet one girl . The reason I am telling you this is Sunday I had to get a list of girls that I wanted to meet I picked out about 20 girls, and forgot all about girl number 1 vary fast the girls started coming in fast in the first hour I had 3 dates set up and by the end of the night I meet 5 RW that night in the first week I meet all but 2 of the girls on my list. There was also girls coming in and out of the office to get there letters and many asked if I would meet them. I had not felt that good about be a man in many years!

that is 100% better then! not near as good know many times know today your lucky if 3 out of 4 the girls on your list show up. Also back then the girls were 100% more trusting and 100% wanting out of Russia for many different reason 100% more interested in the man not were he was from or what he had to offer,and not so much as picky about looks or age.

After all if 18 out of 20 girls meet me then that would tell you there is hope for all of us! Some of these girls were so hot looking I was a sales men with nothing to say. There is still a ton of hot woman in Tver and all over Russia, but the trust factor is long gone from RW and AM 100% ten years ago matching with a good RW was 100% safer and not as hard to get the RW here many girl got there visa in 90 days some less.

KenC you came to Tver when it was near the end of golden days by the way we still want your wife back? don't you think the RW  10 years ago were more trusting and more interested in meeting a man back then?

[Sculpto]

Marc,
Thank you.  This is the type of answer I was looking for and what i thought the acurate answer should be.

[kievstar]

Marc, some good input.  Did you visit Ukraine at all.  Reason I ask it seems their are thousands of girls looking there and the ones I meet complain about the quality of foreign men.  Kind of like picking low hanging fruit, eventually you have to work harder to get the fruit. 

[Sculpto]

Kiev...
Specifically what is the complaint that ladies you know make about foreign men?  I have heard the same thing but it was all agency girls making the complaint and they were never specific.

[Marc@LTP]

Did you visit Ukraine at all----- No


Specifically what is the complaint that ladies you know make about foreign men?

This is not going to be an easy question; I think the number 1 all time complaint is the same for women & Men, and I think it always will be the number 1 complaint

RW if he was real he would be here not writing
AM if she cared,and was serous she would write more!

There each 100% right in there own way and 100% wrong in there own way? in other words their is no winners on eather side.

All tell you what RW have told me to my face this is based on living in Russia for 1 1/2 years

Who is this man how can he have so much to say to me Why is he telling me his life story.he has never meet me?

Some advice to men writing girls they never met.

First don't think well it's me and I am not just anyone I am special. Well my friend you are no one special to her till after you meet her. You know you are special, but she may have had many telling her they are different and special. The same men saying it but they never went to meet her.

Some of these special men that did go acted like KING KONG  they beat on their chest telling the RW how he is the best, and she will never find a man who will Love her like he will. She has heard it all before!!

Second earn her respect don't demand it!

First letters keep them to a half page let the letters build in content keep your life story till you meet her in person. Don't write a 1 liner. ME Tarzan you JANE you like I like if you write me I know you like.

Their are other complaints from RW I will try and talk about them in my next post about Know and then the changes I saw wile living in Russia.

[kievstar]

scultpo,

I hear the following: guy looks different than his photos, they cannot visit very much, greedy, do not plan things for the date, talk about bad marriage or American women to much, get right into talking about having children before knowing her last name, ask to many questions.  One big thing a lot of them do not like - a guy who is going to see more women after they met them.  Men who brag about money happens a lot.   A man having children is a problem for more and more girls I know.

I have met girls in the 24 -30 age range and closer to 29 on average.  No children. Most speak English well.  This is what they tell me.  I think if you meet girls with children or over 35 years old you will get diffrent answers.  Meeting someone under 24 years old is foolish in my opinion right now.  Maybe even 26 years old.  Girls to me in Ukraine are very immature compared to three years ago under 26 years old. 

I have met more girls outside of agencies than in agencies do to my work in Ukraine.  These girls will not leave Ukraine so I kept their opinions out of what I wrote above.

My current girlfriend I have not asked what she thinks but she has met several men on this forum before and been in agencies for a longtime.  She did mention she meets a lot of crazy men and controlling men.  Since I like her, I do not question her like the other girls I met in Ukraine. 



 





 

[Sculpto]

Kiev, thanks for the good answers.. those are pretty much the same things I have heard. 

[Marc@LTP]

One big thing a lot of them do not like - a guy who is going to see more women after they met them.

This is also a way of trying to controll you in other words she is saying don't wast my time it her way of saying I am special and you won't find better them me.

For me if a girl tells me this I would say something like I am sorry you feel this way. It was nice to meet you and I wish you luck controlling the next man that you meet!

well I would leave out the last part, but I would say good by and go on my way.

[ambach123]

I can say from personal experience.

My girl did not have any specific complaints about the process or anyone.

Not all girls complain.

[Marc@LTP]

My girl did not have any specific complaints about the process or anyone.

There are many good stories out there I have seen many RW & AM that are vary happy with the whole exspearence. And many that had next to no problums at all.
To tell you the truth there are some who are vary hard to please, and there not afride to tell anyone who will lisen