Lesson Learned.....

[diverboy70]

Hi Steve!

I'm sorry to hear about your "crash"! I know how it feels, even if my relationship fell to pieces on other grounds than yours!

Lick your wounds for a while and get back up on the horse again!

[steve057]

Hi Gator,
 The thing is I am not tight with money and what I spent on that trip should prove that. Of course to her it is a different story altogether! My job is, well, not exciting but it does pay well and the benefits are good but it is just a living really. I will retire in a few years though even though I'd like to retire now!!!! Little to young for that yet
 She was a good looking woman but not the best I have seen on the sites by far!  It was hard for me to think of someone that didn't have money to be spoiled but that is what she was to be sure and you are right, she probably got that way from all the men pursuing her and you are right about she thought just because she was beautiful she deserved anything she wanted. Thing is that beauty hardly ever lasts your whole life!
 Yes, I did enjoy the experience even though it was painful! The city was beautiful and I loved the taxi rides, people were good to me for the most part ( except that lady at the bank!! would have liked to reach through that window!)I have to look at it as a learning experience otherwise it would really piss me off! I now know what not to do and what to look for so in that respect it helped me in the long run.
 I think the term "Greedy" pissed me off more because it had a reference to her ex husband which I can see now wasn't that stupid after all!
 Oh Well!! Life goes on and I will keep searching!

[Gator]

The very attractive RW will not like greedy men (maybe less attractive RW too but I do not know any).  Be careful how you talk about money around them because if your tight about money but say you have a lot of it - not going to go well with them. Not how much you spend but your willing to spend. 

We agree with each other.  I dwell on this point because it is important.  The concept of "greedy" centers on how much a man spends on a woman vs. how much money he has.  It also reflects the fact that RW have been trained by RM.

The typical RW has always been able to take care of herself.  In contrast, a RW considering marriage to a foreign man realizes that she will be totally dependent upon him for a long time.  Thus, she will judge the man's actions (much more than his words).  And a sense that a man is greedy will be interpreted harshly - he will NOT take care of her when she arrives in his country.

Hestitating about spending relatively small amounts is a case of "penny wise - pound foolish."  She assumes that just by being able to make the trip an AM has money, at least much more money than RM.  If the AM spends less money on her than a RM who has far less, she will think him greedy, and deservedly so in her culture.

[steve057]

Thanks Gator! I will keep that in mind and you made some good points!
Steve

[daveyj]

I may be mistaken, but my understanding is that when a RW uses the word "greedy" what she means is "cheap".

[steve057]

You betcha Dave,thats what she means when she says greedy!

[Shadow]

You betcha Dave,thats what she means when she says greedy!

Actually 'stingy' would be the correct translation.
But greedy sounds better coming from RW. 

[Misha]

I agree with Gator.  The very attractive RW will not like greedy men (maybe less attractive RW too but I do not know any). 

Well, my wife is very attractive, I would say stunning. I spent very little while dating and we never ate out at fancy restaurants, and never spent huge sums on gifts. However, I did not meet her through an agency and we are much closer in age which might explain things.

[topofthekey]

i always assumed "greedy" meant something like frugal... which isn't a bad thing... especially if you want to retire young.

I know Steve went all the way to St. Petes to meet one girl who also happened to be a model. So yea that didn't work out... but in general it sounds like Steve brought gifts and spent at least a decent amount of cash during his stay.

So in his actions he really didn't make any mistakes outside of just meeting the wrong girl... right?

The only other thing that would concern me is a comment where all your first dates have to be at a meal. If you've got more than 3 intro dates in a day... that would be a problem for me. I cant pack away 5 or 6 meals  in a day. Are there some nice alternatives for meetings at 10 in the morning or say 2 or 3 in the afternoon?

Nice cafe for a snack and tea? Some activity to do? Its not a cash issue... its a only so much fits in my stomach issue.

[Misha]

i always assumed "greedy" meant something like frugal... which isn't a bad thing... especially if you want to retire young.

Nice cafe for a snack and tea? Some activity to do? Its not a cash issue... its a only so much fits in my stomach issue.

The Russian word "жадный" can be translated as either "greedy" or "stingy." The first is used instead of the second. However, IMHO, women that whine about "stingy" men are invariably "greedy" themselves.

As for your question, I often met women at a café. This is where I met my wife. We met after she finished working (she was doing some tutoring) at 10pm and spent six hours talking at that café. We had tea, coffee, and a few appetizers over the course of the night, but we did not have a full meal.

[topofthekey]

Misha,

Cool, I was afraid I'd have to bring a girl from the midwest along to gobble up all my food (yea I know, that was really mean).

As for the greedy part... I think all we can do is be up front about our lifestyles.. maybe that will scare the "жадный" girls off. I drive a SAAB. I live in a loft style apartment. I normally spend 10 to 30 bucks on a plate of food and I do eat out a few times a week. I normally go out once or twice a week but when I settle down I'd like to cut back on that (clubs, bars,etc).

I know I'd want all that stuff out in the open and set realistic expectations. I rarely ever spend 3 figures at dinner (kinda hard to do at most places in the mid west). I don't drive a freakin Porsche... I don't go to trendy clubs 4 times a week. etc

[kievstar]

misha, your not understanding the term of greedy.  Gator words it best "The concept of "greedy" centers on how much a man spends on a woman vs. how much money he has.  It also reflects the fact that RW have been trained by RM. 

Age difference has no bearings on greedy.  A poor man can be greedy too.

A poor man who takes an extra job to buy his wife a winter coat is not greedy.  If fact he would be considered very generous.

Being tight on your money is not a good thing.  That being said RM have learned how to deal with their women better than western men.  For example, if I do not want my girlfriend to have something for clothing because i think it is to much.  I do not say"to expensive" but I say "that does not look good on you.  Lets find something else."  Saying something to expensive will get you in trouble when you have the money to buy it.  Hard to learn at first because different thinking on how we were raised.

Regarding attractiveness not a good subject to discuss.  As everyone has different tastes. 

[Misha]

misha, your not understanding the term of greedy.  Gator words it best "The concept of "greedy" centers on how much a man spends on a woman vs. how much money he has.  It also reflects the fact that RW have been trained by RM. 

Age difference has no bearings on greedy.  A poor man can be greedy too.

A poor man who takes an extra job to buy his wife a winter coat is not greedy.  If fact he would be considered very generous.

Being tight on your money is not a good thing.  That being said RM have learned how to deal with their women better than western men.  For example, if I do not want my girlfriend to have something for clothing because i think it is to much.  I do not say"to expensive" but I say "that does not look good on you.  Lets find something else."  Saying something to expensive will get you in trouble when you have the money to buy it.  Hard to learn at first because different thinking on how we were raised.

Regarding attractiveness not a good subject to discuss.  As everyone has different tastes. 

Let's see, I am fluent in Russian and have spent over 13 years with Russian on a daily basis being lectured on the meaning of greedy. How many Russian men do you really know? Or are you simply parroting what you have heard on forums?

How does age difference play on the use of the word greedy? Quite simple. From what I gather, many women on agencies look at much older, somewhat desperate foreign men, as easy targets. They convince the men that they should be spending men on them otherwise they would be "greedy." Many do pony up the cash.

Then, there is a reason why some women who whine about greedy men are also single: they expect more than any Russian man will tolerate. Why should any decent Russian man tolerate a demanding woman, when he can easily find someone else? I did the same. If I met a woman that clearly was too demanding, I just moved on.

It is one thing for a man to take a job to buy a coat for his wife, it is quite another for a woman to expect that a man buy her a coat on her first or second date.

The fact of the matter is that normal Russian women will expect their date to pay for their meal if he invites them to supper, but she won't expect a five-star restaurant. She will be pleasantly delighted if he buys her a bouquet of flowers, but she won't expect him to buy her an iPhone.

As for something being "too expensive," I have no problems telling my wife that something is too expensive. What we look at as a couple is value to cost. If the coat is overpriced (too high of price for the value of the item), we can both agree that it is expensive. If it is a coat that she will only wear once or twice, she will be the first to say that she likes the coat, but won't buy it because it is not worth the price given what she will get out of it. She will be the first to not buy something that is not a reasonable purchase even if we have the money to buy it. This is something that I looked for in a wife.

[steve057]

 Wow  I seem to have opened a can of worms here with the term "Greedy"  She was 13 years younger than I am but I assure you I am not desperate, well not yet anyway Hey Misha your wife doesn't have a unmarried sister does she? 

[kievstar]

I have lived in Kiev and own a residence there in Podol.  Have you ever lived in Russia or Ukraine?

I also have a couple businesses there. 

How many days have you spent in Russia or Ukraine in past 3 years? I am over a year.

[Misha]

I have lived in Kiev and own a residence there in Podol.  Have you ever lived in Russia or Ukraine?

I also have a couple businesses there. 

How many days have you spent in Russia or Ukraine in past 3 years? I am over a year.

In the last 3 years, I spent roughly 6 months in Russia. In the last decade or so, closer to three or four years in total.

However, you did not answer one question: do you speak either Ukrainian or Russian?

[kievstar]

Misha, this is not going well.  I think were both right in what were saying but not understanding each other.   A girl who would accept a mink coat on 1st or second date is usually not good .  A man who gives a girl this is wrong to.  But what if a girl was cold and really needed a coat.  If the guy was rich buying a mink coat is nothing. 

When I use the term girlfriend it does not mean 1st or second date.  I do speak Russian.  Let me know next time your in Kiev and I will buy you dinner any restaurant you want and we can speak Russian. 

[Misha]

Misha, this is not going well.  I think were both right in what were saying but not understanding each other.   A girl who would accept a mink coat on 1st or second date is usually not good .  A man who gives a girl this is wrong to.  But what if a girl was cold and really needed a coat.  If the guy was rich buying a mink coat is nothing. 

When I use the term girlfriend it does not mean 1st or second date.  I do speak Russian.  Let me know next time your in Kiev and I will buy you dinner any restaurant you want and we can speak Russian. 

Well, I may take you up on the dinner part if ever I am in Ukraine.

Okay, I think we can agree on the same points. I believe that we can both agree on the following: most women in Russia won't start demanding that their dates buy them things on their first or second dates. Most RW will pay for a meal and the usual date things, but won't really tolerate for long a woman who demands that he buy her things. True, buying a mink coat for an oligarch is a pittance, however, there are few oligarchs in Russia, and most poor women don't really have much of a chance of meeting let alone dating a very Rich Russian man (call it the law of supply and demand). Also, the rich Russian man buying a mink coat for a woman will most likely see himself as a "sponsor" and as you know Russian, I shouldn't have to explain what this will imply.

[Gator]

Steve057,

For the record I do not think you were greedy.  The RW you met is not typical; she called you greedy because she was unable to exact more from you.  She is a bad woman.



Other men contemplating a meeting with a RW,

A pattern of little things will define whether a RW will consider you generous.  I gave examples earlier.  It is not whether you purchased a very expensive present or dined at an expensive restaurant. 

Just be sure to take her at least once to a good restaurant during your meeting to celebrate.

Also, there is a place for a nice gift.  If a man has had an enjoyable series of days with a RW as part of the first meeting, and you wish to see her again, I suggest that you buy her a nice gift on your last day together.  The gift will remind her of you each time she wears it.  Giving it to her on the last day means there are no strings attached.

Guideline for the gift - do not cut corners.  For example, if she would like a leather jacket, do not buy the cheapest jacket.  Nor do you need to buy the one expensive model made in Italy.  Just make sure the jacket is good quality because she is a quality woman and not cheap.

[steve057]

????

[Misha]

In Russia on engagement it is accepted to give a ring with a stone. And what you have sent, is considered wedding and it put on before an altar. So, a ring wrong. Will lie. As we any more pair. Good luck! Good-bye.

I have yet to see a Russian woman in Russia with an engagement ring.

[steve057]

That is what I told her to!!!!

[Sculpto]

That is the letter of a desperate and insecure woman who is not accepting reality.  I certainly hope you have not internalized any of her nasty insults.  Frankly, women like that make American women look good.  LOL

[Misha]

That is what I told her to!!!!

Good for you!

[steve057]

 No I didn't take any of her insults personal. Mainly because they are not true and not me at all and she knows it!! I will have to say though I liked the honor and dignity part and that I shamed her! Give me a break!