First attempt!

[Turkleton]

I was thinking about doing this a year ago but could never find the courage to give it an attempt. Finding a foreign woman is much harder then finding one in the states and a lot more work.

But yesterday I took the plunge.

I found a girl on A Foreign Affair (any thoughts about this company?), who i found interesting and very attractive. Also she says she speaks excellent English. Shes 18 years old and a student. Her age worries me though, do ladies that young consider meeting foreign men or are they usually scammers?

I used AFA's mail forwarding system and sent her a message. I kept it light and wrote about myself and I asked her some questions. I got a reply rather quick and she seemed interested in talking more. She answered most of my questions and the reply didn't seem generic at all. (that's a good sign right?)

I asked if she had an email address so we can communicate that way, her response was "I don’t use e-mail boxes since I am pressed for time because of the studies (I am a good student) and I’m not sure whether I would be able to check the e-mail regularly."

Is it a common thing for someone in Kirovograd, Ukraine to not have easy access to the internet?

Does anyone know how this mail forwarding system works? Do they translate my letter or is she reading it how i wrote it? How do they deliver the letter to these ladies?

I used the AFA mail forwarding system again to reply to her. This time i added a picture of myself and am now waiting for a response. I am going to ask for her phone number and address next message i send her a letter. That way i wont have to rely on AFA anymore.

I was wondering if it costs extra to send text messages to other countries? I have an unlimited text plan but does that count for the whole world? Also how long does it take for regular mail to reach Ukraine from the US?

Will keep everyone updated.

[catzenmouse]

Welcome to RWD Turkleton!

Do a couple of searches here on AFA and what you will find is not good. You might just be writing to Igor or Valerie (their employee of the month for suckering silly foreign men into paying for pretty letters from pretty pictures).

Best of luck to you.

[Faux Pas]

I was thinking about doing this a year ago but could never find the courage to give it an attempt. Finding a foreign woman is much harder then finding one in the states and a lot more work.

But yesterday I took the plunge.

I found a girl on A Foreign Affair (any thoughts about this company?), who i found interesting and very attractive. Also she says she speaks excellent English. Shes 18 years old and a student. Her age worries me though, do ladies that young consider meeting foreign men or are they usually scammers?

I used AFA's mail forwarding system and sent her a message. I kept it light and wrote about myself and I asked her some questions. I got a reply rather quick and she seemed interested in talking more. She answered most of my questions and the reply didn't seem generic at all. (that's a good sign right?)

I asked if she had an email address so we can communicate that way, her response was "I don’t use e-mail boxes since I am pressed for time because of the studies (I am a good student) and I’m not sure whether I would be able to check the e-mail regularly."

Is it a common thing for someone in Kirovograd, Ukraine to not have easy access to the internet?

Does anyone know how this mail forwarding system works? Do they translate my letter or is she reading it how i wrote it? How do they deliver the letter to these ladies?

I used the AFA mail forwarding system again to reply to her. This time i added a picture of myself and am now waiting for a response. I am going to ask for her phone number and address next message i send her a letter. That way i wont have to rely on AFA anymore.

I was wondering if it costs extra to send text messages to other countries? I have an unlimited text plan but does that count for the whole world? Also how long does it take for regular mail to reach Ukraine from the US?

Will keep everyone updated.

Turkleton

Welcome to RWD! I am not trying to sound blase but your questions tell us you have a lot of reading yet to do. Look over the RWD 10 commandments and read the forum in general. You'll find lots of stories that could be identical to yours. Read, read and read some more. AFA isn't the most reputable of agencies and it sounds as if your young student might be someone or something other than what you think she is. Of course most Ukrainian women have access to the internet, especially a student.

We're here to help but first you do need to read and get relatively informed and then there is much for you to learn. You'll find most and I emphasize most of us are still learning.

Good luck

[msmoby_ru]

Welcome to the board, mate !

this response:

"I don’t use e-mail boxes since I am pressed for time because of the studies (I am a good student) and I’m not sure whether I would be able to check the e-mail regularly."

does not bode well... she is making "excuses" before you start...  IF she is interested she would find the time..

On the other hand there are poorer Ukrainian families who don't have a pc or internet and that is WHY they go via an agency..

BUT, a girl who is interested would find a way

I met a woman who I subsequently learnt was listed on AFA - via her local agency - I had found her on a Russian language dating site - part of the mambo network.

She didn't attend any of the AFA get togethers - so at least you know that (as with many sites - some of the ladies are real !)

As a general rule ( mine!) the older the lady - the more serious they seem to be...

[twrnut]

Hi there Turkelton,

I first started w/ AFA after seeing something on 60 minutes or 20/20 a few years ago where AFA was the agency that was used in an international dating segment. It took me quite a while to really understand what I was getting into so do read everything you can find regarding these services. I wish I had found RWD back then, it seems to be a good resource.
The AFA email forwarding thing is due to a recent US law enacted regarding international dating services. AFA used to provide actual email addresses if one was available. Home addresses and phone numbers also for that matter. Anyways, they take your email and if required, translate and forward to the girl. They may contact the girl by phone and just read it to her with her reply then forwarded back to you. Of course, each costs you. About $10 minimum now I think so it can get expensive fast. And sending photos, long messages is extra.  I tried to get a phone number or actual email address as soon as I could. If she can speak excellent english, she should be excited to talk to you on the phone. Calling card minutes are fairly reasonable and phone calls were much more personal. You can get a better feel of her personality and I always felt I got a better sense of her honesty, willingness to the international dating thing, etc.
When I felt a little encourged with a woman, I would spend $$ to send flowers or small gift through another of AFA's services. I did this to get the photos that they will take when they deliver the gifts. This was one way to get a very current photo and to verify she is real. The skeptic in me.
I did think AFA made several billing errors regarding the email/gift services but I would email them and they would always credit me back w/ their apologies. Usually blaming it on computer problems but even the owner emailed me a couple of times apologizing.
I never went on any of their tours (they still have my initial tour deposit which I assume would still be good) as I met someone through Elena's Models. Since you are just starting out, I would recommend Elena's Models as it is much more economical in communicating w/ women and there is a lot of good info on this site. I could be wrong here but I think there are probably more women on Elena's Models that are not looking for a husband than on AFA. Mainly because the women can sign up/post profile through the internet for Elenas whereas most of the women on AFA sign up in person through their foreign offices. I would ask the women I spoke with about how they came to the agency and this was what I was told. 

I can't really complain about either service as I believe I got what I paid for. AFA was just quite a bit more expensive. Had I gone on one of their tours, maybe I would have a different opinion but I felt they were legit with me. Hope this was helpful and Good Luck.
 

[Shadow]

Hi Turkleton,

She is young, which means she might not be knowing exatly what she wants yet. But if your age is not too high, it can work.

If she has no time to check her e-mail regularly, she probably has no time to go to the AFA office to read her messages regularly as well. That leaves one option, that the agency calls her to discuss the messages. If she does not have a phone as answer on your question, than you figure out how she can read and reply to the messages without having time to check e-mail.

[topofthekey]

Well my first point would be you need to make sure any girl you date likes the show Scrubs 

Other than that how old are you? One of the first websites I visited was AFA and I saw pictures of 18 year old asian women dancing and being felt up by creepy old senior citizens. EEEH!

Check out Steve's thread on lessons learned. I think that might be something useful besides learning that folks (at least on here) avoid AFA.

[roykirk]

I tried AFA briefly before finding my fiancee' through Elena's.  AFA is a rip-off, right up there with (but not as bad as) A-Web.  On AFA, I immediately discounted any woman who didn't have an e-mail contact, because that's just another way for the company to make money by forwarding your messages.  I didn't find one good/honest contact through AFA either.  Ever notice how AFA seems to have an overabundance of 18-20 year old girls who are looking for men up to 45 y/o?  At the risk of starting another age gap debate; that's just not normal.  The only service I'd come even close to recommending outside of EM would be bride.ru.  I tried them briefly as well.  You have to watch for the scammers on there because there's not much of a vetting process, but I do think there's quite a few honest women using the service.

[kryten41]

www.freepersonals.ru is another good site and it is free.

With regard to internet access, it is not as common over there for everyone to have a computer and internet access at home. If she lives in a city of reasonable size though, there should be internet cafe's available.

[ScottinCrimea]

I have stepdaughter living in Ukraine at the moment who is 17 years old, meaning one year younger than this "woman" you are interested in.

I can tell you from my experience with my daughter, her friends, and the daughters of our friends who are that age that I knew while I was living there that not one of them is interested in getting married anytime soon, especially to a foreigner of --what age are you?  I can't imagine any of them posting their profiles on an international dating website.  I know one friend whose daughter age 21 posted on a free website, but for her it was pretty much a joke.  She enjoyed jerking the guys around, especially those who unknowingly sent letters to both her and her 41 year old mother.

Of course every one will tell you, as will every American teenage girl, that they are mature for their age.

I taught English to a lot of girls in that age range and whenever I asked any of them if they would be interested in getting introduced to a foreign man, without exception they laughed and said no thanks.

Our daughter, to be honest, is pretty hot looking and I'm sure she could attract a lot of attention on an agency website, and would probably enjoy the attention, but she would never take it seriously, nor would I ever allow her to.

To answer some of your specific questions, any reasonably sized city in Ukraine has an abundance of cheap internet cafes so even if she doesn't have her own computer she has access to one within a block or two of her home.  Her response of not having an e-mail address, while not a red flag, does introduce a bit of doubt.  It seems like too easy of an excuse not to provide you with one so that you are forced to work through the agency and pay accordingly.  A big clue will come in her response to your request for her address and phone number.  If she says it is too soon to give you her number, I could accept that.  If she says she doesn't have a phone, assume it's a scam because I don't know of any Ukrainian girl that age who doesn't have one.

[diverboy70]

Turleton!

Welcome to this eminent forum! Before you do anything spend a couple of days just reading here!

Especially read the 10 comandments! If you choose to use AFA make sure you will get some direct contact asap. If you like agency girls I would recomend Elenas Models otherwise you could try freepersonals.ru (a free site) or my favourite bride.ru, where you get the contacts of the girls. There are a lot of scammers there so you really have to Have some "people skill"

[roykirk]

The biggest complaint I have about bride.ru is that they have just about the poorest search function of any of the websites.  There are also a lot of women on there that have been there for over a year, if not longer.  All reputable sites should have the ability to search not only by English ability, but also by the age of the man the woman is looking for.  No sense looking at women who aren't interested in people my age.  That's one of the reasons I liked EM. 

[diverboy70]

I'm the first to agree with that!

And there is no filter, so off course you get a lot of not so serious ladies ther, I can only say that I met my ex there and will visit a girl that I met there in three weeks! 

[juggernaut]

Hi Turkleton,

ScottinCrimea's post is important.  You should read it 5 times and comprehend.  You will save yourself time and money.

Juggernaut

[Turkleton]

First of all thanks for all the replies and website suggestions, I will check them out soon.

I read the commandments and have been searching the forums for info, a lot of this seems like luck though. Some people have luck on certain sites and some get scammed. All a gamble from what im seeing.

I forgot to tell everyone that im 23 years old. Usually i go for girls within 2 years of my age but I was more interested in the 18 year old than the other girls i saw. Im sure one of the reasons younger girls dont take it as seriously is because most of the guys are way older than them. I dont care what AFA and other dating sites say... most women dont want an older guy. (by older im talking 10 or 20 years.......even 30 for some!) If a girl is not a scammer and isnt 100% serious then im ok with talking and trying to convince her to be serious about it.

I can see how AFA can get expensive, I had to send her a 20 dollar message because she wanted to know about the book i am writing and other things. plus sending a picture.

Someone on the forums mentioned copying and pasting parts of the messages into search engines to see if something generic comes up...i tried that. Nothing came up. So thats good.

I havent had time to ask for her address and phone yet, but soon. Last message i got from her was just normal chat about movies, music, and harry potter came up. And she commented on my picture and stated that she doesnt have any recent pictures to show me but she will soon. I can understand about the email situation... I even know people in the states that rarely check email or dont have one at all. 

and lol to the guy who mentioned scrubs.

[diverboy70]

Turkleton,

I would be a bit careful with the 18 years old, but then again meybe you and me are looking for different things!

The girl of my primary interest now is 24 and I'm 38, so there is a bit of an age different. The age different issue has been beaten like a dead horse here so I will not go into dept about that here. Let's just say that my last girlfriend from St-Peterburg also were 24, and in our case the age difference was not an issue at all, it fell on other grounds.

[topofthekey]

I forgot to tell everyone that im 23 years old. Usually i go for girls within 2 years of my age but I was more interested in the 18 year old than the other girls i saw.

and lol to the guy who mentioned scrubs.

Ah! I'm a lot less creeped out now. I'm 24 myself. Another poster brought up a good point about the ladies younger than us. Especially the part about setting up a profile as a "joke" and jerking around guys with her mother.

Here in the USA there are a lot of women that post dating profiles on various sites. A lot of girls at 18 to well our age post these profiles and tell their friends (or anyone that asks about it) that it wasnt really serious... a joke... just for fun... or to see whats out there. Secretly I believe a lot of women that say that are waiting for someone tall dark and handsome (around your/our age) to send them an email.

So I wish you luck! Ideally for me the girl would be of course single, no kids, and at least have some of her college work done. Just the age alone (18) definiately says procede with caution (or simply move on if you get a bad vibe).

Last season of Scrubs Turkleton, so enjoy.

[Sculpto]

Wait a minute.. from my observations the majority of UWs getting married to UMs are between 18-23 years old.  I had the impression this was the ideal age for them to get married and if they don't manage it by 25 things start getting harder for them to find a good mate.  Then, they get pregnant, have a baby or two end end up divorced by 25-30.  Then they join marriage agencies and hope to find a man that will treat her and her family better.

So, on the one hand I think Dr. Turk might be just fine.. if he wants to go through all the trouble of getting married, having kids and then getting a divorce. 

I think it might be worth it to know why the good young Doctor wants to get married at 24 anyway.  I think it is quite rare for a guy to want marriage at that age.  So, what gives Doctor.. what are your intentions with "my" daughter? 

[topofthekey]

Doctor.. what are your intentions with "my" daughter? 

yea man! what are you going to do with Karla (thats Turk's wife right)?

I gotta back up Turk here. Plenty of guys are getting hitched right here in the good ole' USA his age and younger. Might as well see whats across the ocean first.

[ScottinCrimea]

Wait a minute.. from my observations the majority of UWs getting married to UMs are between 18-23 years old.  I had the impression this was the ideal age for them to get married and if they don't manage it by 25 things start getting harder for them to find a good mate.  Then, they get pregnant, have a baby or two end end up divorced by 25-30.  Then they join marriage agencies and hope to find a man that will treat her and her family better.

So, on the one hand I think Dr. Turk might be just fine.. if he wants to go through all the trouble of getting married, having kids and then getting a divorce. 

I think it might be worth it to know why the good young Doctor wants to get married at 24 anyway.  I think it is quite rare for a guy to want marriage at that age.  So, what gives Doctor.. what are your intentions with "my" daughter? 

This was true maybe 10 years ago, when the average age of first marriage for women in Ukriane was 21 (for men it was 24), but you got the order wrong.  Quite often it was pregnant first, then marriage.  Things seem to be quite different now, at least outside the villages.  They are waiting longer to get married and the average age of first marriage is more closely resembling that of the West.  I really didn't see any general anxiety to get married among the young women when I was there, in fact, quite the opposite.

[Mishenka]

Bride.ru must be a scam agency.
I got an email from them this week that claimed I already had a profile there. I had never been there before, never signed up. SO I clicked the link to remove any profile that was there. I've been with my girl for a year now and have no use for their services.  I clicked the link that took me to my blank profile. This link auto signed me in with no password.  When i checked the email inbox it already had 15 letters from women sitting there ready to open, if I would only buy credits.  Each letter cost 1 credit to open. I guess you pay for each credit? I never checked that out.  Anyway,  I thought, what a scam.  Here is a web site that sends me a link to a profile I did not create or sign up for that already has women writing me?  No RW is going to write a guy that has a blank profile with no photo or description, not a word about me.  This has happened with a few dating web sites in the last month. I have no idea how they get my email addy, I can only assume it is someone here at RWD looking at profiles and copying our email addresses and sending us SPAM.  In any case I have deleted all profiles I found made in my name on these sites.

Has anyone else got these emails from dating sites like I have?

Mishenka

[roykirk]

Bride.ru must be a scam agency.
I got an email from them this week that claimed I already had a profile there. I had never been there before, never signed up. SO I clicked the link to remove any profile that was there. I've been with my girl for a year now and have no use for their services.  I clicked the link that took me to my blank profile. This link auto signed me in with no password.  When i checked the email inbox it already had 15 letters from women sitting there ready to open, if I would only buy credits.  Each letter cost 1 credit to open. I guess you pay for each credit? I never checked that out.  Anyway,  I thought, what a scam.  Here is a web site that sends me a link to a profile I did not create or sign up for that already has women writing me?  No RW is going to write a guy that has a blank profile with no photo or description, not a word about me.  This has happened with a few dating web sites in the last month. I have no idea how they get my email addy, I can only assume it is someone here at RWD looking at profiles and copying our email addresses and sending us SPAM.  In any case I have deleted all profiles I found made in my name on these sites.

Has anyone else got these emails from dating sites like I have?

Mishenka

You sure it was bride.ru?  Bride.ru doesn't have any system of credits for opening messages.  They never did when I was using them, and that was at the first of this year.  If they do now, it's something new.

[epdx]

I can understand about the email situation... I even know people in the states that rarely check email or don't have one at all. 

It is easy to rationalize a situation that you want to turn out well and see it how you want to see it.

Hopefully, everything is on the up and up but you have left Kansas and need to act accordingly. Best to listen the experienced members of the board and take the next step in determining if this is legit. You need to get her phone number and address for starters. Getting responses to emails you send directly to an agency, that many here are skeptical of, does not prove anything one way or the other. It could be your future wife or could be Igor busting his tail to make a buck.

Regardless of how you find international women you will have to learn to filter out the scams. The only way to do so is to get your feet wet. I have no experience with AFA as I did not like the way their service is set up. What you are doing is exactly what I did not want to go through. Don't let them nickle and dime you.

As some others have posted, I too used Elena's Models. I started out with almost no expectations, but quickly learned there were some intriguing options to be found overseas relative to the ladies here. Although you still have to filter out some potential scammers it is a much better system than AFA's fee structure. At Elena's, you can use an expression of interest to see if a girl is at least interested in getting a letter from you before you take the time to send her one. Not every girl that responds to your initial interest will respond to your letter but it lets you hone in on where to focus your efforts.

[tfcrew]

I found a girl on A Foreign Affair (any thoughts about this company?)..

 
I do know that they have been around for a really long time like
++ 10 yrs
   

 

[Sculpto]

 
I do know that they have been around for a really long time like
++ 10 yrs
   

 

Being around a long time doesn't mean they are legit.  It only means they have good marketing that gets them paying members which gives them enough money to one way or another silence those who haven't been satisfied.  I also want to mention there have been several ads recently on different CraigsList sections promoting foreign women as easy sex conquests and have had links to different AFA sites for their tours. 

Nevertheless if our young correspondent can get his girls personal contact info soon he will probably be in a better situation.