Engagement rings

[kryten41]

I am looking ahead a bit (I am in the planning stages of my third trip to visit my girl in Crimea)  Is it better to buy an engagement ring in the U.S.A. and take it with you, or to buy it in Crimea?  I have heard that there is potentially a 50% duty on jewelry brought into the country.  Do any of you have any recent personal experience with purchasing diamond engagement rings in Crimea, and if so, how does the price compare with what one would expect to pay for a comparable .5 to 1.0 carat ring in the U.S.A.?  I am kicking myself for not checking out prices (and her taste) on my last trip. 

Thanks

[ScottinCrimea]

I bought my wife's ring in the states several years ago and I remember later looking at prices for gold rings there and being quite surprised at how much lower they were.  Maybe it's different now, and maybe the diamond makes a difference.  Maybe someone can give more recent experience.  When I gave my wife the diamond I was told that giving a diamond engagement ring wasn't expected or typical there.  Again, things may be different now.

As far as the duty bringing it in, I just carried it in my pocket, said nothing and walked right through.

Does she prefer the yellow gold that is more common here or the red gold that is more common there?

Will she wear it on her right hand or her left.  You need to size accordingly.  My wife wears her diamond on her left hand and her wedding band on her right and I wear my wedding band on my right, even when I am in the states.

[Fogged]

I bought my fiance's ring in Ukraine. We decided on it together and the price was not much different than in Canada. However, I don't think they have the same grading system on diamonds as we use. If they do, the staff at the stores did not inform us or try to explain it so the clarity and quality of the daimond may vary quite a bit. Main reason for deciding on the ring together is that her taste in rings may be different from what we are accustomed to in North America and I wanted something she will be happy with.

As for duty, I was asked if I had anything to declare and whether I was carrying and gold or silver when I entered Ukraine. I just replied " no" and all was good. Up to you to declare it if you plan to bring one with you. They will scan your luggage so it may be best to carry it in your pocket.

[bgreed]

I am always surprised by the number of guys that don't realize that an engagement ring is a western tradition engineered by DeBeers to sell their over priced shiny rocks and that such a ring is neither a tradition nor expected in FSU countries.

Do FSU women know about this western "tradition" definately! As any woman they like the idea of getting such a gift(name me a woman who doesn't like jewelry). But they don't expect it and in some ways find it a bit of a waste of money.

As for getting it into the country Scott has the right idea as I have never even been paid any attention when flying into Kiev.  However I have heard that in Odessa very close questioning, baggage searches, metal ditectors etc. have become standard.  Probably because of so many western guys coming through with expensive jewlery to impress their lady so that the government wants their cut.

[Doll]

My two cents.
You need to ask the girl what she likes.
As for unexpected engagement rings- I wouldn't risk as the girls are aware of American traditions very well.
My AM let me pick it myself there in Russia.

[Mishenka]

A question for the ladies,
What are the Traditions in Russia for the man in the wedding engagement? It is like America where the man has to go to the father of the bride (if there is one) and ask his blessing first?  if there is no father, does he go to the mother or family or brother? Just curious what you will all say.  In my case I went to her older son, and Brother, to get their apprroval.  Now of course I have the whole family moving to America. Her brother, his wife and son among them. We all get along well.

Galina knew all about the American tradition of wedding ring sets from her friends who married AM.  She began telling me that she would like to design our own rings and have them made in Tashkent by her family friend who worked with her brother in the past making jewlery. We searched the internet to discuss some styles and then saved and printed a few photos to show this jewler what we wanted him to make for us.  Galina likes emeralds, so, we wanted to place an emerald as the center stone with two smaller diamonds on each side for hers, with an ingraved G&G inside for our initials. You don't see to many emeralds in wedding ring sets.  The cost on the internets sites, averaged $2000- 3000 USD for her one ring.  Her jewlers price was $600 for both.  Gold is selling at $1000 per ounce so he also offered to melt down any rings we had to use them and save us some money.

When you feel the time is right and you are ready to ask her to marry you, Don't say anything about it yet, just take her window shopping in some local stores in her city and see what her taste is in jewlery.   Let her choose something that fits her personality.  It might be less money if she makes the purchase in her city. All I am saying is make sure you are ready to make the commitment before you do this because it will have equal meaning to her as asking her to marry you.

With the curent economy in USA jewelery stores are selling at good discounts.  Im not sure where the better price is today. People are loosing jobs and homes and are also selling off their rings at cheap prices.  I would also look into this resale market, you could pay a fraction of the cost to get something close to what she likes.  Just don't buy off Ebay!  Make sure you see it in person.
M.

[Diplomacy]

Well for me the 2 month USA rule was the 2 day rule in Ukraine.  $500 and she picked it out herself.  I told her we should get the ring before we talk to Mama and Papa since they live in a village.  I did not have any clue how to go about finding a ring there, and wanted them part of the engagement.

Now in true Russian style I was told that you negotiate a bribe lol.  It is a respect thing, but it did not get to that point for me.  Now, she as soon as got home and told Mama we were engaged.  So it was her day, and going out for a nice dinner was not an option.  She flat out refused and said we celebrate at home, and such things are a waste of money.  We must be careful with money, you work hard to make it.

Now is this normal, I have no idea in the world.  I was not going to get into a fight over going to spend money.  Was it the romantic getting on the one knee thing I had in my mind.  No, she was just on cloud 9 and I let it stay there.

As for the prices, they are lower.  I was also in Lugansk which is not a wealthy city also.  I was shocked when she chose a white gold ring with diamonds.  I would have thought yellow or red gold also. 

Let us call it what it is, we have no idea what woman want unless they tell us too much of the time.  At least that is the case, over time you can use past presents as a good indicator.

Also, I had no idea if I was in fact going to get engaged or not.  So, I was not ring shopping here.  If you do purchase here though go to a diamond district and save yourself a lot of money.

They primary ones are NYC, Miami, and Chicago that I know about.  I am told it will cost less than half retail. 

[dispozo]

My lady is from Ukraine and I wanted to as traditional as possible, see link.. http://www.whatson-kiev.com/index.php?go=News&in=view&id=2381

I asked her father, we went to his home for a very nice diner. About half through the dinner I got up and asked her father for his permission. He said YES, many times. I then went an got a little ring, I had made with our country colors. I then asked her to marry me and she said yes.

It was very important to me that her family understood, that I respected them and their culture. That our family would be Ukrainian as much as America.

The ring is very simple, just elastic band with beads. It is not a real engagement ring. But she loves it!!!!

[kryten41]

Thanks for the replies.  As far as not declaring something at customs if asked, that is smuggling, and I am not willing to risk a few years in prison to save some money; in addition, if you don't declare it when asked, it is subject to being forfeited.  On my first trip, I was questioned but not searched at customs; on my second trip, they seemed to be doing random questioning and letting most people walk through without a word.

I am quite sure she is aware of the western tradition of engagement rings (she knows some women that have married western men), and I am not going to let her down.

I like the idea of doing some window shopping with her if I plan on popping the question, that way if she says "yes" we can go back and get the ring she wants, and if she isn't interested in looking at rings, I'll know that "the question" might be premature.  I also appreciate the suggestion that we shouldn't even go window shopping unless I plan on asking the question.  Now I must learn enough Russian to discuss price with the jeweler, and take the daily limit off my ATM card.

[Doll]

The prices are not negotiable there.
You can pay with your credit card

[Fogged]

The jewellery store I bought the ring did not accept credit cards which I found a bit odd because most places did. I just went to the bank, withdrew the money from my card, and went back and bought the ring.

[Diplomacy]

The jewelery store I bought the ring did not accept credit cards which I found a bit odd because most places did. I just went to the bank, withdrew the money from my card, and went back and bought the ring.

Great point, the one I purchased from did not either.

The respect issue is what I was trying to do also.  It was all explained best I could with my translator to Papa while we were fishing not catching lol.  He laughed and said Xenshana's.  Of course my joke about the women would make use yest hleb and voda for zakarat was not at first funny.  A quick translation of joking made for a bunch of laughter.

It is all good now, I just got the report that they are very proud of me for being a beautiful man and also successful in business.  Get used to beautiful man that is another translation issue.  I just go with it, a compliment is a compliment right?

[Misha]

Do FSU women know about this western "tradition" definately!

Not something my wife was really concerned about. She learned about the "tradition" in Canada. Never did buy an engagement ring. Promised to buy a diamond ring to mark out 3rd wedding anniversary.

[Doll]

The jewellery store I bought the ring did not accept credit cards which I found a bit odd because most places did. I just went to the bank, withdrew the money from my card, and went back and bought the ring.

Then buy the ring in the stores that do accept credit cards.

[Diplomacy]

I would rather pay cash over there, too much corruption.  Identity theft is a life experience nobody needs.  I would think about that aspect also.  My cards were emergency only.  I also kept 2 wallets, passport insurance and travelers insurance are also good ideas to keep in mind. 

If anything from lost luggage to going to the hospital ever happened you call a number collect and they take care of you.

[DKMM]

I bought mine here, I would never trust the quality of the diamond over there. 

[HiTech]

Also it very much depends on what $ you wish to spend, finding a ring over $1500 can be very difficult, and you really do not know what you are getting.

My estimation is that Diamonds are more expensive if buying in a store,and buying in the Ukraine ( I have purchased both places in the last 2 years). Today your best buys for diamonds will be via internet in the USA. For purchasing gold, I think you can find better buys in the Ukraine.

[ScottinCrimea]

Thanks for the replies.  As far as not declaring something at customs if asked, that is smuggling, and I am not willing to risk a few years in prison to save some money; in addition, if you don't declare it when asked, it is subject to being forfeited.  On my first trip, I was questioned but not searched at customs; on my second trip, they seemed to be doing random questioning and letting most people walk through without a word.

Technically, you are supposed to declare ALL jewelry when entering Ukraine.  That would include your own rings, cufflinks, whatever.  Typically, though, they refer to "expensive" jewelry.  What "expensive" means isn't defined.

There is no duty on gifts or jewelry that you do not intend to be carrying back out of the country with you, but declaring it sets you up for being bribed, meaning you pay the "fee" or lose the ring.  Is that official?  Of course not.  What are your chances of going to jail if they find something that you didn't declare? Nill.  What are the chances that they would confiscate the ring?  Again, almost nill.

The purpose of declaring such items are twofold.  First, if you bring it back out of Ukraine yourself and can't prove that you brought it in, it will be assumed that you purchased it in Ukraine and will be subject to a tax.  Secondly, if your purpose is to sell it in Ukraine, you would need to show why you are leaving with more money than you came in with and this document would provide that proof.  Again, you would pay a tax on these profits. Neither of these two relates to your situation. She won't have to declare it on leaving so if you give it to her as a gift, it's all good.

If you are worried about being technically correct for fear of doing prison time for bringing in a ring and not declaring it, that's one thing and the odds of that, like I said before, are zero.  If it is out of a sense of moral correctness, that is another thing and you should spend time reviewing the import laws for Ukraine so you don't miss anything.

My wife reaffirme that a diamond engagement ring is neither customary or expected by the majority of women there, but perhaps you have introduced this idea to her and, if so, it's too late to back down now.

Based on what others here have said, I have an alternate suggestion.  Why don't you buy a diamond in the US, take it to Ukraine and go shopping for a ring that you can have it mounted on.  It seems that way you would have the best of both worlds.

[Chicagoguy]

In June my fiance and I were on a nice street in Side, Turkey when we were strongly encouraged to go into a nice jewerly store and see an engagement ring they were suggesting for us. It was only $ 14,000.

When the salesman determined that I wouldn't be buying and that I didn't understand Russian he told my fiance that she was wasting her time with me and that I would never marry her.

While I believe she would accept an engagement ring she has no expectations now, so I will probably get her one after she arrives here.

[kryten41]

The prices are not negotiable there.
You can pay with your credit card

Doll,
Thanks for this information about prices not being negotiable, I am sure you saved me some embarrassment.  In my city, prices at jewelry stores are always negotiable, so I assumed it was that way everywhere.

I also appreciate the advice about letting her pick it out so she gets what she wants.  I think this will be much more exciting for her than if I pick a ring that may or may not be her taste. 

Scott,
Thanks also to you for the advice. I haven't discussed the issue of rings with her yet, but I know she has done at least as much research on the subject of marriage to a WM as I have on marriage to a FSU woman, and I think she would be disappointed if I didn't  buy a ring.  In searching this forum I found opinions that while it might not be customary for a FSU man to buy an engagement ring for a woman, many FSU women are aware that it is the custom in the U.S.A., and have a reasonable expectation that their WM will give an engagement ring.  If she doesn't expect it, then perhaps it will make her twice as happy:-)  I appreciate your advice though, so I will know not to get the wrong impression if she doesn't seem very interested in rings.  I don't think that will be the problem though, as she likes to wear rings.  I think I will buy the entire ring when I am with her, that way she gets the cut that she wants also, and isn't stuck with a round diamond when she always dreamed of a square, etc.

[epdx]

My lady was aware of western traditions but did not expect anything based on the traditions in Ukraine. Few people get engagement rings there. I took her shopping and she wound up picking out matching Ukrainian rings for us. Apparently that is tradition there and it made her happy to have matching rings. She was very excited to have a ring but almost seemed more excited to have found us matching rings. She was also happy I asked her father's permission.

[Doll]

I appreciate your advice though, so I will know not to get the wrong impression if she doesn't seem very interested in rings. 

I am the woman who doesn't care for jewelry though when my AM gave me an engagement ring I did appreciate it- he cares.

[Shadow]

When looking for wedding rings MrsShadow was amazed at the enormous cost of 'craftmanship' that is asked.

As she worked for a jewellery factory in the past (one job was making inventory of diamonds with a pincet) she has quite an insight in the workings. As a result she does not trust the quality of diamonds which are processed in the rings in Holland, as there is almost no discretion of prices between diamond quality, no certificates are given and generally the stones are too small to test the quality.

In Russia you will pay the price of gold and stones, with a maximum 10% added for craftmanship. Our wedding rings had 100% added on the gold price. We bought them anyway. 

You might get false certificates with the diamonds when buying in Russia, but this is a risky business. Jewellers know that a number of their clients might have the bought goods tested by a 'friend' and are more than capable of causing 'problems' for them if they sell under quality goods, especially with the more luxurious items you will find them being more careful.

Buy from a shop where you see a black Mercedes with some Jeeps stopping and buying some gold.   

[kievstar]

I would recommend looking at diamonds on blue nile on the internet unless you know a diamond dealer or work for a diamond store and get the 30-40% discount they give out.  Otherwise blue nile is a very good option.  Regarding gold really depends on when the gold was bought as prices have gone up and down drastically.  Right now you can get very good prices on gold in the usa.  Make sure you understand that differences between 18K, 14K, etc. 

You really should understand what makes a diamonds value if your going to buy.  Spend about an hour in a high quality jewelery store and understand color, cut, carat, clarity, etc. 

I see very few women with diamond rings in Kiev. If you lady is thin with small hands a big ring with a big diamond looks funny on her hand.   

Personally I am buying a diamond but only because my country that is the norm. 

[roykirk]

I would echo Kievstar in that Blue Nile is a good place to look.  It's where I bought the engagement ring for my fiancee'.  It's also one of just a handful of Internet diamond sellers that are well regarded.  As for the choice of getting a diamond ring or not for my fiancee', I also was confused (she is Russian).  I had read on some websites that engagement rings are not customary in Russia.  I'm glad I didn't take this advice.  I talked with the husband of her best friend.  He told me that in the past they weren't customary, but now young Russian women are very westernized and he told me she would probably greatly enjoy a diamond engagement ring, although not necessarily expect it.  He said in his customary broken English, "I think diamonds are girl's favorite friend, here and there!  Yes?"     She loved it. 

There has been one problem, however.  I presented her with the ring when she was here in the U.S.  It was about a 1/2 size too large.  We didn't have time to take it to a jeweler here to have it adjusted, so I told her she could have it adjusted back at home.  So far, she has had zero luck finding someone to adjust it.  One jeweler told her it was not possible to adjust it because the diamond could be damaged (BS, it's a solitaire).  It's a simple gold band with a 3/4 carat solitaire, any U.S. jeweler could and would adjust it 2 sizes up or down without hesitation.  I think they're just refusing to work on it because it wasn't purchased from them.  I told her I could bring it back with me on my next trip and then have it adjusted here, and then Fed-Ex it back to her.