TR to Moscow

[OlgaH]

Olga, I think he is unwilling.. Possum, are you one of the environmental anarchist activists in Tomsk? 

Most likely he is an activist of the "Youthful Ignorance" in Tomsk  Usually these activists are expelled from the institutes and universities for their poor progress in studying and after they say  - "I spit on their diploma"   

That would be STI, not sure what they call themselves these days.. biggest bunch of incompetents I've encountered in my life.. They keep renaming the place for some reason as if that's gonna improve their status somehow.. I spit on their diploma..

possum, Are you talking about  V. D. Kuznetsov Siberian Physico-Technical Institute at the Tomsk State University ? 

[Sculpto]

OK Possum our Siberian friend.. how old are you and why are you so ticked off about Tomsk...

[Sculpto]

BTW.. this might be why there is some dissent in the middle of Siberia..

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/russia/tomsk-7_nuc.htm

[possum]

I didn't go to the TSU.. where did you get that?. I went to a different university (then 'institute') and I didn't get expelled, I was actually doing quite well until I realized I didn't belong there.. so I got up and walked outta there, and never came back.. You see, I wasn't one of those spineless Russian mama's boys who go to college like sheep to the slaughter because they don't know any different.. or because their mommy and daddy said so, or to avoid military service.. You'd be surprised how many of my former classmates went to college simply to get out of the draft.. Don't you think there's something terribly wrong with this picture?.

The tech school wasn't my first choice but I went for it because I thought I could get into the technical stuff and I was very good at math, too.. However, at some point I realized it wasn't working out for me and that I had lost all interest in most technical subjects, so I quit and went on to do my own thing and I'm damn proud of it!. And yes, a lot of the so-called professors in that particular university were incompetent as confirmed by professionals in their respective fields..

[possum]

OK Possum our Siberian friend.. how old are you and why are you so ticked off about Tomsk...

Do I sound ticked off?. I'm just tellin' it like it is, no more no less..

[possum]

http://www.forest.ru/eng/problems/control/publication47.html

http://www.taigarescue.org/en//index.php?sub=2&cat=63

http://www.pacificenvironment.org/article.php?id=204  (this one is a little old)

and the best of all..

http://tesi.seu.ru/index.php

you better not be a spy Possum..

Ahem.. I am most certainly not an environmentalist wacko, if that's what you're getting at.. I'm a conservative and as such I'm more concerned with the well-being of people than about the environment.. that's not to say I don't care about the environment at all, I just don't spend every waking hour thinking about it, and I don't dream about hugging them trees either..

[Sculpto]

I don't know about our friend Possum.  he has rejected a lot of things as not being good enough for him, is critical of the guys that are smart enough to go to the Uni instead of becoming cannon fodder or slaves in the military, thinks preserving the environment is a waste of time at the same time showing he is clueless that the well being of people is entirely interrelated with the health of the environment... not to mention his utter rejection of the intrinsic beauty of his home town.  And he does all this in perfect English. 

Lyrics to Call Up, The :
(The Clash)

It's up to you not to heed the call-up
'N' you must not act the way you were brought up
Who knows the reasons why you have grown up?
Who knows the plans or why they were drawn up?

It's up to you not to heed the call-up
I don't wanna die!
It's up to you not to hear the call-up
I don't wanna kill!

For he who will die
Is he who will kill

Maybe I wanna see the wheatfields
Over Kiev and down to the sea

All the young people down the ages
They gladly marched off to die
Proud city fathers used to watch them
Tears in their eyes

There is a rose that I want to live for
Although, God knows, I may not have met her
There is a dance an' I should be with her
There is a town - unlike any other

It's up to you not to hear the call-up
'N' you must not act the way you were brought up
Who give you work an' why should you do it?
At fifty five minutes past eleven
There is a rose...
Yeah!

[Sculpto]

I talked to "A" this morning.  She is still in Moscow working, but, ran out of money until her pay arrives from Tomsk.  I know I am going to get some flack for my next comment, but, please save it.

I left her with a debit card to use in emergency.  It just has a couple hundred on it.  I was afraid she would have a situation exactly like this and didn't want her to get in trouble.  The problem is, she refuses to use the money.  She said, "If I take this money now I will not have later if need".

I am happy she is so responsible about this money.. but I really hate the thought that she is in Moscow with no cash in her pocket.  I tried to explain to her that if she needs something more I will put more on the card, but, it doesn't matter, she refuses to use it and then says.. "Keeess you Erreeek, I very happy you good with me and worry for me, but I ok, I will to have my money soon".

[possum]

I don't know about our friend Possum.  he has rejected a lot of things as not being good enough for him, is critical of the guys that are smart enough to go to the Uni instead of becoming cannon fodder or slaves in the military,

Those who go to college for the sole purpose of avoiding the military are cowards in my book.. Most of them have no idea what they want to be and usually end up doing something different than what they have studied for.. To me they are scared and clueless, not smart..

 

thinks preserving the environment is a waste of time

Funny, I don't remember saying that.. 

at the same time showing he is clueless that the well being of people is entirely interrelated with the health of the environment...

The well-being of people is interrelated with a lot of things, environment being just one of them..

 
 

not to mention his utter rejection of the intrinsic beauty of his home town.  And he does all this in perfect English. 

Which is why I'm way smarter than the so-called professors at the Faculty of Foreign Languages at TSU who apparently don't know their rear anatomy from a hole on the ground.. Would you like me to provide a link to one of the speeches of their so-called dean?. Gosh, that woman is clueless..

[kievstar]

scultpo, your girl is a little like mine and will not take the money but they appreciate the thought and care.   My girl tells me if she takes money from a card before marriage what kind of girl is she.  She has a good point. 

[Sculpto]

Those who go to college for the sole purpose of avoiding the military are cowards in my book.. Most of them have no idea what they want to be and usually end up doing something different than what they have studied for.. To me they are scared and clueless, not smart..

Possum my friend.. the military industrial complex of our two great nations are the greatest threat to the security of everyone on the planet.  Please read again the words from the song I posted.  If young men stopped agreeing to go to war so that the rich and powerful can sit behind the lines and reap the benefits the whole dynamic of world power could change for the better.  The young men who go to war are not the brave ones, they are the sheep who follow orders and when they commit illegal acts and corrupt their hearts they do nothing courageous at all.  It takes courage to say no to war and those who refuse to go are in fact the heros.  I make exception to this position only in the case of special forces who do it specifically to fight against the fanatics like OBL.

And besides, who cares if people end up doing something different than they studied for?  People and circumstances change so there is nothing wrong with those who allow life to lead them into whatever.

 
Funny, I don't remember saying that.. 

The well-being of people is interrelated with a lot of things, environment being just one of them..

It is how I read it... maybe not what you intended.  From my own perspective there must be a balance between extraction of resources and preservation of untouched natural places.  I can understand from a Siberian perspective that the resources could seem rather limitless, but, unfortunately that is not the case on a global scale.  Our ability to consume, destroy, exploit is now much greater than the earths ability to renew itself, at least in the short term.  I would refer to the collapse of the Mayan culture as the best example of what happens when humans become too successful and the natural environment can no longer sustain the uses human force on it.  The whole world currently is on the threshold of the same sort of disaster but on a much greater scale.  I applaud and commend the activists in Tomsk who do their work under what I percieve as one of the greatest threats anywhere in the world.

Additionally when you consider the radioactive and chemical releases from Tomsk 7 the consequences of the contamination take on a much more sinister and dangerous reality for people far away from the actual place where the accidents occured.

Which is why I'm way smarter than the so-called professors at the Faculty of Foreign Languages at TSU who apparently don't know their rear anatomy from a hole on the ground.. Would you like me to provide a link to one of the speeches of their so-called dean?. Gosh, that woman is clueless..

You do not have to do so.  I can appreciate why you might feel that way.  Also, please do not think I am attacking you.  I find you interesting and would like to provoke an interesting discussion for my own selfish benefit to learn more about the mentality of people from Siberia.  I have not had much contact with Russian men during the three years I have been searching for my bride so the perspectives you are expressing help to give a deeper understanding of some of the ideas I have heard from my girl because she has made some comments not so different than yours on some subjects.

"Low Rider" by War

All my friends know the low rider
The low rider is a little higher
Low rider drives a little slower
Low rider is a real goer
Low rider knows every street yeah!
Low rider is the one to meet yeah!
Low rider don't use no gas now
Low rider don't drive to fast
Take a little trip
Take a little trip
Take a little trip and see
Take a little trip
Take a little trip
Take a little trip with me

[Sculpto]

scultpo, your girl is a little like mine and will not take the money but they appreciate the thought and care.   My girl tells me if she takes money from a card before marriage what kind of girl is she.  She has a good point. 

Kiev, I am glad to see I am not alone in this particular complexity.  Although I am very worried about her and want her to be safe in Moscow and not struggling her refusal also gives me even more confidence in her and respect.  I know she knows what she is doing and has a lot of street smarts so I am sure she will be ok.  And if she decides not to use the money I put on the card it will eventually be more than enough to pay her plane ticket to the US and other visa related expenses so its all good.  It reminded me of one conversation we had when we discussed shopping for clothes.  I told her about the great deal I got on my coat at Macy's and explained that I like to look at the nice stores for the newest fashions and then go to the discount centers to find the best deal.. "never pay full retail" and she laughed and said she was exactly the same.  I actually can not wait to go shopping with her.  Call me strange (like no one noticed that already HAHA) but I actually like to go clothes shopping with my girl.

[Diplomacy]

Sculpto I deal with that all the time with comments like "I not need"  " I careful with $$"  They have quite the stubborn streak in them too.  I just say well she lived this long doing it her way, just let it go. 

Picking your battles is a must.  Or they will wear you out.  I am sure if it was life or death she would use it.  You would not take the struggle out of the artist would you?

[Sculpto]

I most certainly would not take the struggle out of the artist.  She did make it clear if there was a real emergency she will use the money and I explained to her that I simply want her to understand that "I've got your back" and she laughed and said "I too have your back".  Awesome! 

I never mentioned this before, but, at one point we were talking about Mexico and the idea to open up a Russian Tea House in the city I would like to live.  She asked me how much it would cost to do it, which is not much compared to doing the same in the USA or even in Russia, and she offered to send me her money in a few months when she will be getting paid for the articles she is working on now.  She wanted me to put this money away and save it to open the Cafe.  LOL.. I told her no, that we will work out the details later when it is closer to reality.  She tried to insist.. it was funny.  I try to give her money she won't take it.. she tries to give me money and I won't take it.   

[possum]

Possum my friend.. the military industrial complex of our two great nations are the greatest threat to the security of everyone on the planet.  Please read again the words from the song I posted.  If young men stopped agreeing to go to war so that the rich and powerful can sit behind the lines and reap the benefits the whole dynamic of world power could change for the better.

I see where you're coming from and I agree that if all people of all nations refused to ever go to war we could all benefit from that.. But as a realist I know that's never going to happen, that's why I don't believe in completely demilitarizing the two countries, especially in the face of the ever-growing Islamic threat.. The US and Russia have the two strongest military machines in the world, and as soon as you dismantle them, a third much weaker military machine is going to come and destroy them both.. Can you say Ahmadinejad?. Hitler of Iran?. And speaking of Hitler, do you realize that if it hadn't been for 'military industrial complex' of the US and Russia we would all be speaking German right now?. 

 

The young men who go to war are not the brave ones, they are the sheep who follow orders and when they commit illegal acts and corrupt their hearts they do nothing courageous at all.  It takes courage to say no to war and those who refuse to go are in fact the heros.

Please, don't tell me you're one of those people who accuse their own military of 'terrorizing women and children in the dark of night'.. as if the military is a criminal organization run by a 'boss' who thinks nothing of giving orders to commit all sorts of crime.. That is simply not true..

I make exception to this position only in the case of special forces who do it specifically to fight against the fanatics like OBL.

OBL is just a cog in the Islamofascist machine.. By focusing solely on him you run the risk of letting millions of his followers regroup and develop a new chain of command..

And besides, who cares if people end up doing something different than they studied for?  People and circumstances change so there is nothing wrong with those who allow life to lead them into whatever.

You're missing my point.. Most young Russian going to college today aren't doing so to get a degree in Physics or a degree in Russian or a degree in Law; instead, they go to college to get a 'diploma'.. A diploma has become a form of ID in Russia, similar to a passport in the US..

It is how I read it... maybe not what you intended.  From my own perspective there must be a balance between extraction of resources and preservation of untouched natural places.  I can understand from a Siberian perspective that the resources could seem rather limitless, but, unfortunately that is not the case on a global scale.  Our ability to consume, destroy, exploit is now much greater than the earths ability to renew itself, at least in the short term.  I would refer to the collapse of the Mayan culture as the best example of what happens when humans become too successful and the natural environment can no longer sustain the uses human force on it.  The whole world currently is on the threshold of the same sort of disaster but on a much greater scale.  I applaud and commend the activists in Tomsk who do their work under what I percieve as one of the greatest threats anywhere in the world.

I agree that natural resourced are finite and should be used responsibly.. There should be some sort of balance between consumption and preservation.. However, I'm not going to sit in the dark or build a fire in my tiny apartment in order to save a few watts of power, and if you have a problem with that I suggest you come live here for a couple of years before you call me wasteful..

Additionally when you consider the radioactive and chemical releases from Tomsk 7 the consequences of the contamination take on a much more sinister and dangerous reality for people far away from the actual place where the accidents occured.

First of all, there's no such city as Tomsk-7 anymore.. It was renamed Seversk a couple years after the fall of the Soviet Union.. Secondly, both reactors at the Seversk nuclear power plant were successfully decommissioned earlier this year, leaving the city to rely solely on coal for heat and power which is proving to be a total disaster.. For some reason, the new coal power plant can't produce enough heat and as a result a lot of people in many apartment houses are already freezing their asses off and it's not even December yet!. Now, you come live in Seversk for a couple of winters, then talk to me about those worthless bums, those ignorant beer drinking 'students' who have been screaming for years to shut down all nuclear-related activity in Siberia.. Where are they now?. My guess is they're guzzling beer and vodka trying to keep warm in their cold coal-powered apartments.. What's good for California is not necessarily good for Siberia, I hope you understand that..

You do not have to do so.  I can appreciate why you might feel that way.  Also, please do not think I am attacking you.  I find you interesting and would like to provoke an interesting discussion for my own selfish benefit to learn more about the mentality of people from Siberia.  I have not had much contact with Russian men during the three years I have been searching for my bride so the perspectives you are expressing help to give a deeper understanding of some of the ideas I have heard from my girl because she has made some comments not so different than yours on some subjects.

Is that right?. What comments would those be?. Inquiring minds want to know..

[Diplomacy]

I think a few of us would say it did not work out well in California either.  I hate hearing about people not being warm in December.  I do wish you the best there.

One point I would like to make is Iran is very quickly becoming a very very powerful military.  The successful transition to solid fuel on rockets puts much of EU at risk now.  They can not and will not be allowed to develop a Nuke, I am pretty sure it is not only USA and Israel that would feel this way at this point now.

The  shield just became very important, and the test last week shows the merit to the USA push for it being installed.  They had intelligence that they were close to achieving this goal.

Of course, yes it does back Russia into a corner a little.  Wonder what they will say now about it?  Although the only reason would be the risk of blowing up their oil and natural gas customers lol.

[Sculpto]

I see where you're coming from and I agree that if all people of all nations refused to ever go to war we could all benefit from that.. But as a realist I know that's never going to happen, that's why I don't believe in completely demilitarizing the two countries, especially in the face of the ever-growing Islamic threat.. The US and Russia have the two strongest military machines in the world, and as soon as you dismantle them, a third much weaker military machine is going to come and destroy them both.. Can you say Ahmadinejad?. Hitler of Iran?. And speaking of Hitler, do you realize that if it hadn't been for 'military industrial complex' of the US and Russia we would all be speaking German right now?. 

First of all if people continue to insist on being "realist" there will never be a critical mass of people who can create the change to peace we need.  What is required is a change of perspective, a change of reality.

The Islamist threat would not be a threat to the west if did not see them as a threat.  WE have long held military domination over most of the Islamic world, with military domination comes economic domination.  We enable the House of Saud to repress its people but cry foul at Syria.  We created the despot Saddam Hussein and he was our buddy as long as he did our bidding, particularly in the war against Iran during which something over 1 million people were killed.  We isolate secular states like Libya and reward repressive monarchies.  Our policies regarding the "Arab Nation" are the source of the animosity and hatred that emanates from the Islamist schools.  If our policies engaged nations and peoples fairly without hypocracy to the mutual benefit of all involved there would be no radical Islam to deal with.  It would simply disappear on its own.  Hopefully, Obama will go down such a path which will lead to a more harmonious world.

I don't want to give you a ong history lesson about Gitler, but, both the US and the Russians wavered with him, had secret agreements and hoped he would prove to be different than he was.  It was not a military industrial complex that defeated Gitler, but rather the will of nations aligned against the greatest terror humanity has ever known.  The modern military industrial complex was developed after the war in the competition between the USSR and the USA for military and idealogical dominance around the world.  On the side of the US, as the biggest supplier of arms in the world, it is simply big business to profit from wars, especially in Africa.

And finally I do not see Iran as a real threat.  Again look at the history of relations between Persia and the west over the last hundred years or so.  It is dominated by the west interfering, supporting the brutality of the Shah and doing everythign we could to exploit their resources to our benefit.  Much like the Taliban in Afghanistan was the result of the USSR invasion and the CIA support of the Muhuajadeen against the USSR, the Islamic revolution in Iran was the result of half a century of the west propping up the Shahs of Iran.  For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Please, don't tell me you're one of those people who accuse their own military of 'terrorizing women and children in the dark of night'.. as if the military is a criminal organization run by a 'boss' who thinks nothing of giving orders to commit all sorts of crime.. That is simply not true..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

http://www.crimesofwar.org/chechnya-mag/chech-interview.html

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/MUMA-7FVA2A?OpenDocument

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossetian-Ingush_conflict

I think that is more than enough to prove my point.  So, Possum, pull your head out of the sand.  War is dirty business and the soldiers do what they are told to do.  If that includes a "blind eye" to the worst violations then those soldiers will do what they wish with impunity.  It doesn't matter if they are Americans, Russians, Mexicans, Thais, Chinese or whatever.. when there is no law.. no oversight and no consequences soldiers do what they do and the officers that turn a blind eye are complicit to it.  It is a fact of war and is why the Geneva conventions exist.  Unfortunately what was agreed upon in Geneva has little to do with the reality of the battle.

Wars with an honorable goal are few and far between.

OBL is just a cog in the Islamofascist machine.. By focusing solely on him you run the risk of letting millions of his followers regroup and develop a new chain of command..

OBL simply needs to smoke a fatty and relax.  With his multiple wives certainyl getting enough booty isn't the problem.. but, probably he is a closet homo and that is why he is so angry.

You're missing my point.. Most young Russian going to college today aren't doing so to get a degree in Physics or a degree in Russian or a degree in Law; instead, they go to college to get a 'diploma'.. A diploma has become a form of ID in Russia, similar to a passport in the US..

LOL.. welcome to the modern world!  That my friend is the same everywhere.  The exceptional few who split atoms and cure cancers are just that, exceptional.  Everyone else is just trying to live as best they can.  There is nothing wrong with that. 

I agree that natural resourced are finite and should be used responsibly.. There should be some sort of balance between consumption and preservation.. However, I'm not going to sit in the dark or build a fire in my tiny apartment in order to save a few watts of power, and if you have a problem with that I suggest you come live here for a couple of years before you call me wasteful..

I can appreciate your point Possum.  I am not suggesting the YOU are wasteful.  I am quite sure I consume a considerably larger share of the earth's resources simply because I live in California and must drive a considerable distance almost every day.  I have also lived in Mexico and consumed almost nothing, so, I well understand the difference.  I will say though, I am usually happier after spending some time in Mexico being a non consumer than I am driving around from client to client with no more company than the radio in my car.  Our consumption lifestyle can be VERY lonely and I think is the big disconnect that people who have never been to the USA do not understand if their only understanding of the life here comes from film and TV.

First of all, there's no such city as Tomsk-7 anymore.. It was renamed Seversk a couple years after the fall of the Soviet Union.. Secondly, both reactors at the Seversk nuclear power plant were successfully decommissioned earlier this year, leaving the city to rely solely on coal for heat and power which is proving to be a total disaster.. For some reason, the new coal power plant can't produce enough heat and as a result a lot of people in many apartment houses are already freezing their asses off and it's not even December yet!. Now, you come live in Seversk for a couple of winters, then talk to me about those worthless bums, those ignorant beer drinking 'students' who have been screaming for years to shut down all nuclear-related activity in Siberia.. Where are they now?. My guess is they're guzzling beer and vodka trying to keep warm in their cold coal-powered apartments.. What's good for California is not necessarily good for Siberia, I hope you understand that..

I know the city is called Seversk.  I chose to use Tomsk 7 for those that might do a google on the place because more comes up when you google Tomsk 7.  I was not aware the reactors have been shut down, but, I would think that is a good thing since they have already been proven unsafe.  On one of my outings in Moscow I thought I saw int he distance, on the south side of the city, five nuclear cooling towers.  I pointed them out to my girl but she didn't know if they were in fact reactors.  I was a bit suprised to see a nuclear power plant so close to a population center.  WE have reactors here also of course but they usually put them pretty far away from the populations they generate power for so that in the case of an accident there is supposedly less risk. 

Now.. coal is only an improvement in the sense there is no half life waste to deal with.  However, coal damages the earth in two big ways.. the mining and the burning.  Coal fired powerplants in China will soon replace the cars in the USA as the biggest soure of green house gasses and overall air pollution.  Here in California there has already been a change in the acidity of rain because of the pollution blowing across the ocean from China.  If I am not mistaken the region around Tomsk is blessed with a rather large amount of geothermal activity.  Is that correct?  If so, it is a pity this resource is not being exploited as it can provide nearly limitless power and does nto pollute.  North of SF we have a massive field of geo power, only about half an hours drive from the wine country.. these geo thermal stations produce about 15% of the electricity for the Bay Area if I am not mistaken.  Also, isn't most of Siberia sitting on top of the worlds largest reserves of natural gas?  Clean burning fuel that is cheap and plentiful...

Is that right?. What comments would those be?. Inquiring minds want to know..

Just in general.. sometimes I get the feeling I am talking to someone from the middle of the USA.. someone who is far away from the centers of power in the world and who has a view that is distorted because of it.  Again, not picking  a fight.. just an observation that could very well be wrong.

[possum]

So, Possum, pull your head out of the sand.

I've never had my head in the sand about these things.. I realize there is a blame America/the West first crowd that thinks US foreign policies are to blame for the rise of Islamofascism and that Obama is the Savior, who in his turn, is going to bring peace and understanding to the world with the help of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reed.. The fact is, Islamofascism is nothing but a more radical form of Islam that encourages killing the infidels, that is those who refuse to convert.. It's been around since the 7th century when there was no evil America to speak of..

Wars with an honorable goal are few and far between.

Agreed, but then some wars start out as honorable and then turn into something less than honorable.. Putting a bloody dictator out of power is an honorable goal in my book, but turning a war into a quagmire for political or monetary gain is absolutely dishonorable..

OBL simply needs to smoke a fatty and relax.  With his multiple wives certainyl getting enough booty isn't the problem.. but, probably he is a closet homo and that is why he is so angry.

How do you know that's not what he's doing?. We don't get to see his everyday life, just the stupid tapes..

LOL.. welcome to the modern world!  That my friend is the same everywhere.  The exceptional few who split atoms and cure cancers are just that, exceptional.  Everyone else is just trying to live as best they can.  There is nothing wrong with that. 

Sure, there's nothing wrong with needing a diploma to do 99,9% of the jobs..

Our consumption lifestyle can be VERY lonely and I think is the big disconnect that people who have never been to the USA do not understand if their only understanding of the life here comes from film and TV.

Well, I guess it's a good thing I'm not one of those people..

I know the city is called Seversk.  I chose to use Tomsk 7 for those that might do a google on the place because more comes up when you google Tomsk 7.  I was not aware the reactors have been shut down, but, I would think that is a good thing since they have already been proven unsafe.

Yes, the old plant was shut down through standard decommissioning procedure as most of the equipment was outdated and the reactors themselves had come to the end of their service life.. It will be replaced by a new nuclear plant in the next few years.. I think construction is set to begin next year.. Thankfully, most people realize that cheap energy is essential to the survival of the region..

Now.. coal is only an improvement in the sense there is no half life waste to deal with.  However, coal damages the earth in two big ways.. the mining and the burning.

As I understand it, coal screws up our lungs more it could ever screw up Mother Earth..

If so, it is a pity this resource is not being exploited as it can provide nearly limitless power and does nto pollute.  North of SF we have a massive field of geo power, only about half an hours drive from the wine country.. these geo thermal stations produce about 15% of the electricity for the Bay Area if I am not mistaken.  Also, isn't most of Siberia sitting on top of the worlds largest reserves of natural gas?  Clean burning fuel that is cheap and plentiful...

The problem with natural gas is it keeps going up in price.. No longer is it the cheapest source of power in the region, not by a long shot.. 

Just in general.. sometimes I get the feeling I am talking to someone from the middle of the USA.. someone who is far away from the centers of power in the world and who has a view that is distorted because of it.  Again, not picking  a fight.. just an observation that could very well be wrong.

I thinking living has been a blessing in disguise in the sense that I have a unique perspective on a lot of things pertaining to life in the 21st century and life in general, really.. I don't have to rely on American mainstream media for information and spiritual guidance, if you know what I mean.. there's a lot preaching coming out of those news outlets on how we should live our lives and what we should strive for.. secular liberalism is goooooooood, religious right is baaaad type messages.. I don't have to be subject that that propaganda 24/7, I can make my own judgments on things based on pure common sense as opposed to party affiliation.. That's what makes me unique and my views unique, and also the fact that I'm a straight shooter.. You don't have to worry about PC with me because I never bought into that fad.. I believe that sort of censorship is a mild form of fascism.. I'm the kind of guy you can trust because I call 'em as I see 'em, and I long ago stopped caring if that made certain people uncomfortable.. So, if you have any questions about Tomsk, Siberia or anything at all, I'll be more than happy to give you a straight answer..

[Faux Pas]

I've never had my head in the sand about these things.. I realize there is a blame America/the West first crowd that thinks US foreign policies are to blame for the rise of Islamofascism and that Obama is the Savior, who in his turn, is going to bring peace and understanding to the world with the help of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reed.. The fact is, Islamofascism is nothing but a more radical form of Islam that encourages killing the infidels, that is those who refuse to convert.. It's been around since the 7th century when there was no evil America to speak of..

Agreed, but then some wars start out as honorable and then turn into something less than honorable.. Putting a bloody dictator out of power is an honorable goal in my book, but turning a war into a quagmire for political or monetary gain is absolutely dishonorable..

How do you know that's not what he's doing?. We don't get to see his everyday life, just the stupid tapes..

Sure, there's nothing wrong with needing a diploma to do 99,9% of the jobs..

Well, I guess it's a good thing I'm not one of those people..

Yes, the old plant was shut down through standard decommissioning procedure as most of the equipment was outdated and the reactors themselves had come to the end of their service life.. It will be replaced by a new nuclear plant in the next few years.. I think construction is set to begin next year.. Thankfully, most people realize that cheap energy is essential to the survival of the region..
 

As I understand it, coal screws up our lungs more it could ever screw up Mother Earth..

The problem with natural gas is it keeps going up in price.. No longer is it the cheapest source of power in the region, not by a long shot.. 

I thinking living has been a blessing in disguise in the sense that I have a unique perspective on a lot of things pertaining to life in the 21st century and life in general, really.. I don't have to rely on American mainstream media for information and spiritual guidance, if you know what I mean.. there's a lot preaching coming out of those news outlets on how we should live our lives and what we should strive for.. secular liberalism is goooooooood, religious right is baaaad type messages.. I don't have to be subject that that propaganda 24/7, I can make my own judgments on things based on pure common sense as opposed to party affiliation.. That's what makes me unique and my views unique, and also the fact that I'm a straight shooter.. You don't have to worry about PC with me because I never bought into that fad.. I believe that sort of censorship is a mild form of fascism.. I'm the kind of guy you can trust because I call 'em as I see 'em, and I long ago stopped caring if that made certain people uncomfortable.. So, if you have any questions about Tomsk, Siberia or anything at all, I'll be more than happy to give you a straight answer..

Possum,

You are very wise beyond your years. It's quite refreshing. What is your age?

[possum]

Possum,

You are very wise beyond your years. It's quite refreshing. What is your age?

Thank you.. I just turned 25 a few weeks ago..

[Diplomacy]

Good healthy debate you 2.  I would though very worry about Iran.  This will be a few years from now.  I just do not see doing nothing an option for the world.  Of course nothing could happen too.

They are just much stronger then people think IMO, they have never been conquered for a reason.  Very hard to invade Iran.

[possum]

Nah, everything's gonna be alright from now on.. Obama and Ahmadinejajad are going to sit down for a little chit-chat, and before you know it they'll be singing kum bah yah together!. :kissing:

[Sculpto]

LOL..

I do not think Obama will be sharing milk shakes with the loco in power in Tehran.  I do think he will be able to influence him out of his paranoid view of the world.

I am lately very suprised by some of the commentary from conservatives.  After the last 8 years in which we have seen a war that was illegal and useless, the gutting of the constitution, the stealing of the 2000 elections, the destruction of the economy, the torture of prisoners and so on and so on... I am almost unbelieving that those of you on the right wing have not come to your senses to understand we live in a society and we sink or swim together.  It is no longer the wild west.. and if you want to practice, to quote jeff Goldblum from "The Fly" "INSECT POLITICS" you really might prefer living in a truly fascist country rather than a democracy.  The conservatives screwed this country up real good so how about we let more rational minds take a shot at fixing things.

I understand your position that Islamofascism has been chopping off heads since the 7th century and is the realm of fanatics.. however, I would remind you that it was not so long ago that the Inquisition was burning people at the stake.  Right wing right to life people still kill doctors and bomb abortion clinics.  How are they even one bit better than some fanatic who will blow himself up to get to the 75 virgins waiting for him in "heaven"?  Manifest Destiny, the overwhelming foreign policy of the USA is based on "the God given destiny" of this country to dominate.  Once westward expansion was completed all that was left was the rest of the world.  The religious fanatacism that informs the right wing of this country is not one bit less insane than the Islamofascists.  The main difference being that the "Christian Warriors" have a much higher standard of living and so therefore the immediacy of their "calling" is not as urgent as it is for many in the Islamic world. 

While i am impressed with your understanding of things, I think and feel you are still viewing the world as if it were flat.  Your views are pretty one dimensional and we live in a multi dimensional universe.

Oh, and when coal smoke infects peoples lungs it is because there has been AIR POLLUTION.. why is it so difficult to see the connection.  Everythign is interrelated, nothing exists without some complex relationship to everything else. 

Which goes directly back to my point about seeing the world without its dimensions and layers. 

Also.. to think I am USA centric would indicate you really don't understand me at all.  I am anything but.  So, I say to you, in Tzotzil Maya, one of the most obscure languages in the world, Miliote Kuabelan.. "good morning, how is your heart?"

[possum]

LOL..

I do not think Obama will be sharing milk shakes with the loco in power in Tehran.  I do think he will be able to influence him out of his paranoid view of the world.

I am lately very suprised by some of the commentary from conservatives.  After the last 8 years in which we have seen a war that was illegal and useless, the gutting of the constitution, the stealing of the 2000 elections, the destruction of the economy, the torture of prisoners and so on and so on... I am almost unbelieving that those of you on the right wing have not come to your senses to understand we live in a society and we sink or swim together.  It is no longer the wild west.. and if you want to practice, to quote jeff Goldblum from "The Fly" "INSECT POLITICS" you really might prefer living in a truly fascist country rather than a democracy.  The conservatives screwed this country up real good so how about we let more rational minds take a shot at fixing things.

George Bush and the Republican leadership of today are anything but conservatives.. A true conservative would never rape the treasury by spending like a drunken sailor, just like he would never keep a largely unnecessary war going for years to give his cronies more time to make some dough.. Bush fooled a lot of people in 2000 when he ran for office as a 'compassionate conservative' but turned out to be a liberal..

The religious fanatacism that informs the right wing of this country is not one bit less insane than the Islamofascists.

Whatever you do, don't tell that to year gf, especially if she's Orthodox Christian or has a family member who is.. You're liable to lose her forever..

While i am impressed with your understanding of things, I think and feel you are still viewing the world as if it were flat.  Your views are pretty one dimensional and we live in a multi dimensional universe.

Care to elaborate on that?.

Oh, and when coal smoke infects peoples lungs it is because there has been AIR POLLUTION.. why is it so difficult to see the connection.  Everythign is interrelated, nothing exists without some complex relationship to everything else. 

I understand there's a connection between air pollution and lung disease, I learned that in middle school.. I was just pointing out the fact that you failed to mention any health risks involved in coal energy production, and that all you said was it was harmful to the earth.. it was an attempt to illustrate to you that I put human life first and Mother Earth second, meaning the damage the coal industry inflicts upon planet Earth by supposedly causing Global Warming and such is nothing compared to the harm it does to people in the form of asthma and lung cancer.. See the difference in our approaches to environment preservation?.

[Sculpto]

George Bush and the Republican leadership of today are anything but conservatives.. A true conservative would never rape the treasury by spending like a drunken sailor, just like he would never keep a largely unnecessary war going for years to give his cronies more time to make some dough.. Bush fooled a lot of people in 2000 when he ran for office as a 'compassionate conservative' but turned out to be a liberal..

Clearly we have very different ideas as to what consitutes a conservative and a liberal.  I am also quite sure you are missing quite a bit of nuance regarding the perfection of the American dictatorship. 

Just a bit of history about the Bush family... it is rumored that one of the most prized family heirlooms in the Bush family is the skull of the last great Apache warrior, Geronimo.  I do not know if it is true, but it seems likely to be true.  The grandfather of GW was one of the financiers of none other than Mr. Gitler himself. 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

So, my point is, the Bush family dynasty is actually the best example of modern Fascism that exists.  For all his down home bumpkin use of language and "normal guy" credentials including his boozing and cocaine and so called service in the National Guard the entire show is exactly that, a show.  There exists an agenda underneath the surface that has been functional and in use since Nixon ran against Kennedy. 

What I find the most frustrating and sad is when educated and intelligent people buy into the propoganda of the conservative agenda and in some way convince themselves that this very same agenda in some way applies to themselves.  Sure, on paper smaller government with fewer taxes seems great.. sure, less governmental interference into our lives seems great.. but.. the reality of what is implemented every time the conservative party gets into office has nothing to do with the fascistic propoganda they have sold to almost half this country.  On the contrary, they interfere more, they direct more earmarks to their own benefit and they have started every war we have been involved in since WW2.

Face it, if you are not a member of the "club" you do not get to participate in the economic and military imperialism that our taxes and votes enable the right wing to engage in.  So, every time you cast a vote in favor of the fake conservative agenda what you are actually doing is issuing liscence to the very same people who will appropriate your wealth, your freedom, your way of life, if, the shkeet should actually really hit the fan. 

There is a lot of criticism of left leaning politics on this board, some of it comes from people who lived at one time in the USSR but most of it comes from the men.  However, in my critique I would simply suggest that in the case of the ladies you may very well be confusing the result of totalitarianism and Stalinism with the benefits and social advances that an evolved social democratic state can provide.  To the men.. well I think you guys are simply brainwashed by Fox news and Rush and Newt.

Whatever you do, don't tell that to year gf, especially if she's Orthodox Christian or has a family member who is.. You're liable to lose her forever..

My GF and her family are not religious.  I made it a specific point to find someone who is not deeply involved in religion.  While I enjoy the pomp of most religions, I fundamentally disagree with the Doctrines.

Care to elaborate on that?.

It is not easy to explain.. but.. I will tell you about an epiphany I had once that led me to a deeper understanding of the interconnections between everything.  20+ years ago on my first trip to the tropics one of my main objectives was to go swimming in a coral reef.  I had always been a big fan of Jaques Cousteau documentaries.  Finally the big day came.  Not far off the coast of Mexico, near Cancun, is the Isla Mujeres.  The barrier reef that begins right about there and ends at the souther end of the Carib is the second largest in the world and has an amazing degree of biodiversity.  At the far end of the island is one of the great underwater national parks in the world.  There you can simply rent a snorkel and mask, wade through the cut in the coral and swim in a pristine reef system.  For two days I just floated on the surface observing the interrelationships between the fish, shellfish and corals.  The more I watched the more I understood that every single element, observable or not, was interdependent with each other.  Take one part out and some other part suffers.  After these two days ended I understood that EVERY relationship on the planet, in the universe for that matter, is governed by the same laws.  We are far from understanding the comlexity of these laws, nor do we understand with any real depth how we can manage to co-exit within this framework given the success of humans at manipulating the natural balance to our favor.  I dojn't expect this explanation will help.. but, it is all I've got without putting a lot more time into it.

I understand there's a connection between air pollution and lung disease, I learned that in middle school.. I was just pointing out the fact that you failed to mention any health risks involved in coal energy production, and that all you said was it was harmful to the earth.. it was an attempt to illustrate to you that I put human life first and Mother Earth second, meaning the damage the coal industry inflicts upon planet Earth by supposedly causing Global Warming and such is nothing compared to the harm it does to people in the form of asthma and lung cancer.. See the difference in our approaches to environment preservation?.

Health risks of coal production and energy made from coal?  Sheesh.. isn't that obvious?  The miners suffer greatly from black lung disease and of course the risk of explosion.  How many miners are killed each year in Russia?  I know in Ukraine it is a shockingly high number, but, I only really follow Donetsk and there have been several mining disasters there in the last 18 months.  The air pollution from coal burning plants ruins the air.. poisons the rain water which in turn poisons the ground where the food is grown as well as the rivers of Siberia which as I understand produce quite a nice fishery for human consumption.  So, you can focus on the one dimensional aspect of human lung disease, but, the overall impact on the entire eco-system has a much larger impact on human health, especially over long periods of time. 

For the last 20 years or so there has been a process of globalization which has been implemented by multinational corporations with the purpose of extracting ever greater margins of profit from the basic production and consumption cycles of human civilization.  The net result of this process is China has become the worlds work shop as productive industries all over the world have not been able to compete with the artifically low priced wan and the low cost of Chinese labor.  Being that I am in the finished wood products industry I have seen it first hand as North Carolina, the heart of the woodworking industry in the USA, which has lost over 30 Million square feet of production space and thousands of jobs which have been shipped overseas to China and to a lesser degree India.  This is not a sustainable system and is in my view at the core of the current crisis regardless of the manipulations on wall street.  I think Ricardo posted in another thread a couple days ago about life in Cali Colombia where he sees little or no impact from the global crisis.  Someone criticized me when I stated there are parts of Mexico almost totally independent of the global infrastructure.  Yet, these places do exist and a very large part of what makes them viable and immune from the current crisis is the simple fact that what they consume is for the most part produced locally.  Globalization, short term planning, one dimensional thinking, these are the greatest inhibitors to widespread prosperity and long term sustainability of life. 

So, you can go on talking theory about conservativism and any other ism, but, the reality on the ground is the modern world is on a collision course with its own productivity and the consequences to the luxurious way of life most of us in the west are accustomed to can nto be sustained if we allow it to continue on this path. 

I am a woodworker and I can not compete with China.