Guest speaker at English class

[William3rd]

William,
Read "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky.  It may help you understand better the tactics used by the left, especially the part about ridiculing "the enemy".

Ooops!  It just occurred to me that maybe you've already read it. 

Yawn- this remark is a rehash of the same bunk you posted the other day. You should shop for some better catch phrases or take some vitamins to help your memory. With your views, you make W seem to be a leftist. Anyway, its time to ignore ya.   :noidea: Keep up the spew, eh?

[groovlstk]

Ronnie, I really have a hard time believing you are daft, but likewise you are an adult and you're old enough to know better so I can't believe that you're intentionally yanking my chain.

I've noticed in the past that you tend to latch on to a single sentence or word in a post you disagree with, then extrapolate to the moon and draw (what to me are) wild and baseless conclusions. I've always thought that this was an infantile debating strategy of yours - seizing on a single thought and using it to discredit the poster's larger ideas or obfuscate the issue - something you perhaps did more to piss the OP off than to discuss particulars. Hence my disdain and dismissive tone to you in the past. I'm starting to think now that maybe I'm wrong - perhaps you're a very literal-minded person, and when you read a post you take it verbatim, without any nuance or subtlety.

I know I'm not the only person here who has had this reaction to you.

Your comment about "reining in" people speaks volumes for who you are..there's no difference between hushing up someone and burning books, which you seem to despise and accuse the advocating.  I understand you being upset I called you on it but I had no choice.

Let me try to explain my original post to you. You can accept my explanation or choose to believe I'm weaseling out of a rather pointless argument, makes no difference to me:

Blues Fairy posted a link to a video where New Yorkers were behaving rudely to a group of McCain-Pallin supporters. You both expressed indignance about their treatment and then you unfairly insulted my fair if annoying liberal neighbors as a "rowdy, loud-mouthed bunch with no history of civil discourse." But Fifth Avenue runs both ways, Ronnie: I pointed out an earlier example wherein a very visible supporter (until he did the world a favor and croaked) of the aggrieved party which you and BF defended lobbed a horrible and opportunistic insult at NYers during one of the gravest, saddest moments in our history. My hyperbolic response was meant to convey the notion that if Republicans want to crap on us at our worst moment, then they shouldn't come crying when they visit our metropolis and are greeted with a few middle fingers and harsh language instead of the keys to the city. Fair enough?

Never in my wildest imagination did I think that anyone would extrapolate a call for censorship from my post, so when you took my sentence literally I immediately assumed you were ducking the real issue and busting my chops. Perhaps you did, and still are. I don't really know nor do I care.

You bring up Rev. Falwell for whom I have no great admiration.  Why not also mention the good reverends Jesse Jackson, Jeremiah Wright Jr.,  Al Sharpton or Father Pfleger, not to mention Louis Farrakhan all of who preach hatred and intolerance...why do you select only Jerry Falwell?  Who is the idealogue here?

Look at the context of what I was trying to say. I didn't mention Rev. Al or any of the other cretins you mention because they have no context to the point I was making. 

[OlgaH]

Ronnie,

I know I'm not the only person here who has had this reaction to you.

Blues Fairy posted a link to a video where New Yorkers were behaving rudely to a group of McCain-Pallin supporters. You both expressed indignance about their treatment and then you unfairly insulted my fair if annoying liberal neighbors as a "rowdy, loud-mouthed bunch with no history of civil discourse."

[Erwin]

LMAO...rolling on the carpet with tears are coming out of my eyes....

[Erwin]

Last night I was the guest speaker at my GF's English class here in Siberia.  It was a fascinating chance for me to speak to Russians at a sort of man-on-the-street level.  It was also a good chance to talk politics since my GF really isn't that interested in the topic.  Since this was an advanced English class, there was very many good questions and long discussions.

Everyone in the class, including the instructor, were under 25 (except my GF at 27).  Only two men in the class.  Everyone seemed to be taking English for work-related purposes.  The only exception was the instructor, who admitted she would like to emigrate to Europe.  Some of the questions and discussions:

1.  As I expected, the first question was about my thoughts on Bush.  I told them I thought Bush was a horrible President that had threatened world peace.  They all nodded their heads in agreement and it was quite clear this statement lightened the mood in the room.  (sorry to the Bush supporters here on the board, but it's honestly how I feel and not something I said just to win the favor of a classroom of students)  This led in to a discussion about my thoughts on the current presidential candidates and an explanation of our political parties.

2.  Georgia.  My GF warned me this would come up.  I do have some strong negative feelings about Russia's actions here, but I simply did a political dodge and told them America should let Georgia fight their own battles.

3.  Iraq.  Reading #1, you can guess my response here.

4.  Many questions about our education system and the average salary of various jobs. 

5.  Questions about what the Russian "stereotype" in America is.  This was one of the longest discussions of the night.  One student expressed "disgust" that Hollywood portrays Russians as drunks and that there is mafia everywhere.  This was a tough one for me to respond to, because I really have some conflicted thoughts about this.  While I'm sure Hollywood overdoes it, I do think Russia has quite a problem with alcohol.  Even my GF described it to me as "Russia's private shame."  And I would say my experience has been that I've seen what seems to be many more drunk Russians staggering down the street than I have drunk Americans in similar-sized cities.  Maybe it's because being drunk in public is more frowned upon in the U.S. so our drunks are passed out in bars and at home?  I honestly don't know. 

6.  They also asked me to explain the financial crisis in the United States.  One of the students was a banker, and he made it quite clear that people in his profession considered it the fault of the U.S. for ruining the world economy. 

One thing I was confused about and didn't have time to clarify was about Russia's education system.  There were two 23 y/o women in the class I spoke with.  One is working on her PhD, and the other said she was a 3rd year medical student.  I don't understand how this is possible.  Is it because Russians graduate from high school at a younger age and start college earlier?  Most Americans graduate high school at age 18 or close to it.  You'd be hard-pressed to be a 3rd year medical student here at anything less than age 25 (graduate at 18, 4 years undergrad + 3 years medical school), unless you graduated early.  I also have several friends who are PhDs, and not a one of them managed to do it before age 28.  Are our education systems so different?

On a different note, I would say that if there are single men here who wish to meet young and pretty Russian women, go hang out at an English school.  You will never see so many beautiful and friendly women who wish to know everything about you.   

I propose that you adopt the following strategy: At the outset of your speaking engagement, you tell the students that you do not discus politics, sex and religion.  I assure you that you will be doing just fine.

[Ronnie]

Okay Groov, I don't know why I keep responding to you but maybe you're right maybe I don't see the nuance and sublety in your words.  What I see is someone who said the republicans need to "rein in" someone who happens to have been a republican.  I assume you're correct, I don't know much about him...apparently you know more...as I didn't even know he had died. 

You said that BF and I defended the man.  I think if you read back, that's not at all the case.  My reaction was that the idea of "reining in" a private citizen, especially one who is a minister speaking to his believers, is repugnant to me and any American who believes in the first amendment.  Falwell had every right to make any stupid comment he chose to make about 9/11.  And we all have a right to strongly disagree with whatever he said.

It may go beyond the pale of good taste however to say, as you did, that he (Falwell) "did the world a favor" when they "croaked" but is consistent with the actions seen in the video coming from your neighbors.    Remember, if you will, I only mentioned my wife's experience in ESL class in here in California.  Then BF posted the video and the New York thing started

I hope your outrage at Falwell was no less kindled when the New York Times ran a photo on 9/11 of Bill Ayers the "leftist, radical, communist" (his self description) dancing on the American flag.  I grant you that the paper came out a few hours before the attacks on the WTC.

So let's look at what Falwell was saying.  Basically it was that he believes, and apparently many American Christians do as well, the God protects this country as it's a good country in God's eyes.  That's their belief and I see absolutely nothing objectionable about it. Where he crossed the line was to say that certain groups and he named them (I won't), brought on the destruction of 9/11.  He later apolgized but clearly that remained his belief.  I've said this before and I'll say it again..nobody speaks for God and I find those who pretend to so speak to be charlatans or delusional.

Let's not forget that while Falwell tried to blame those he saw as evil for the tragedy, others did worse.  Anarchist Ward Churchill, blamed not only all of America but even the victims themselves, calling them "little Eichmanns" and "technocrats"  and "non-civilians."

Jeremiah Wright blamed "White America" shortly after the event. 

Where I want to take issue with you is where you singled out one man and advocated his "reining in."  Then you condemn some notion of book burning without saying who advocates it (though from some of the left-wing blogs, I assume you are referring to Governor Palin).  I asked you what's the difference?  You neither answered that question nor took back your "reining in"  comment, instead inferring that there is some wrong with me (...daft?).

I'm comfortable enough in my own skin to let you use the epithets if you like using them but it would be nice once in a while to see an honest, "I screwed up...I never should have called for someone's speech to be reined in.'  Ah..... but you can't.

[Ronnie]

Did anyone catch McCain and Obama doing comedy at the Alfred E Smith Memorial dinner Thursday night.  McCain's speech brought the house down.  I actually started to like the guy...

Even Rachel Maddow and Bill Maher were impressed.  It should be up on Youtube soon...oh, it's already up..

[youtube=425,350]http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=irXS4Q7mUKQ[/youtube]

[AnastassiaAsh]

Yes, i watched that too last night, it was awesome, i liked it. It really helps and is just nice to look at these two as just two guys who can be fun and have humor, in a non political and more relaxed atmosphere.

[groovlstk]

I hope your outrage at Falwell was no less kindled when the New York Times ran a photo on 9/11 of Bill Ayers the "leftist, radical, communist" (his self description) dancing on the American flag.  I grant you that the paper came out a few hours before the attacks on the WTC.

Ronnie, there is a long list of Americans from both the far left and far right who used 9/11 as a platform for their hatred. They are all scumbags.

Let's not forget that while Falwell tried to blame those he saw as evil for the tragedy, others did worse.  Anarchist Ward Churchill, blamed not only all of America but even the victims themselves, calling them "little Eichmanns" and "technocrats"  and "non-civilians."

Jeremiah Wright blamed "White America" shortly after the event.

I don't see any difference between Falwell's comments (and Churchill's, and Chomsky's, and Lynn Stewart's - it seems to me you're pressing me to put them in the same category as Falwell - you don't have to press me, for the most part they are even more abhorrent than Falwell, who can at least claim old age and an upbringing in a different era) and those of 9/11 Truth idiots I pass every day outside the WTC PATH station, handing out literature claiming GWB bought the towers down in a controlled explosion. It really sticks in my craw when anyone tries to deflect blame from where it should lie.   

Read this sentence twice, please: What you are still failing to grasp is that left wing radicals were not relevant to the point I was trying to make.

Where I want to take issue with you is where you singled out one man and advocated his "reining in." 

Again, you're interpreting what I wrote way too literally. I used Falwell as a metaphorical example.

Then you condemn some notion of book burning without saying who advocates it (though from some of the left-wing blogs, I assume you are referring to Governor Palin).  I asked you what's the difference?  You neither answered that question nor took back your "reining in"  comment, instead inferring that there is some wrong with me (...daft?).

Your comment that "socialists" want to control speech may be correct, but both the left and the right are relentlessly trying to censor each other, both claim to do so for moral reasons.

I'm comfortable enough in my own skin to let you use the epithets if you like using them but it would be nice once in a while to see an honest, "I screwed up...I never should have called for someone's speech to be reined in.'  Ah..... but you can't.

Ronnie, since you can't digest metaphors or any other form of speech outside of literal truth, maybe this will help:

When you accused me of trying to control Rev. Falwell's speech, you thought he was alive.

I had to point out to you the poor bugger was dead and that you completely misunderstood the context of my post.

Do you think I have a time machine and wish to go back in time to control his speech? Or perhaps burn down the Jerry Falwell Memorial Library along with every copy of his printed word? Even if I had Scott Bakula and Al to help me I'd be SOL 

[Ronnie]

I came across this site that has reproduced an English version of Viktor Vashi's 1967 satire entitled "Red Primer for Children and Diplomats"
It's hilarious and you will find a few parallels in this year's news events.  Enjoy...

http://www.mega.nu/ampp/vashi_red_primer/index.htm

[Chicagoguy]

 Wasn't there an "OFF TOPIC" icon or something similar on the old Russian Women Guide web page ?  Some of these posts get too far away from original question or thoughts.       

[Ronnie]

 
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