Economic Mournings

[ScottinCrimea]

Muddy,
   I lived in Ukraine for three years, was never once stopped by the police or interacted with them in any way except socially at dinner and parties.  Overall, carrying your money with you is the best way.  You certainly should never leave it in a hotel or rented apartment.  Russia might be a different story as far as the militsia are concerned, but I followed this practice there as well, never had a problem with this approach.  Ultimately, you are relying on something to protect your money, in my case, I would rather it be me...

I second what krimster writes regarding the police.  Living there two years, I was never once stopped by the police on the street. As far as leaving money in a rented apartment or hotel room, keep in mind it won't be someone breaking in who would take it, but someone who has access to the keys.  Would you leave a lot of cash in your hotel room in the US?  Now if you're sure it is hidden in a place where no one would think to look, fine.  If not, keep it with you.  I personally never carried a wallet because there was really nothing in it I needed to have on me.  I carried the money I needed for the day in my front pocket.  If I ever carried large sums, I typically kept it in something similar to a money belt.

I wouldn't feel overly paranoid if I were you, but take reasonable precautions.  One nice thing there over the US is that guns are not so prevalent so it is rare that anyone gets held up at gunpoint. 

[ScottinCrimea]

Thanks for the info guys.  I wasn't trying to start the cash v ATM debate again. 

Scott, that is exactly the information I was looking for in light of the previous posts about the rate being 6 to 1 in Crimea (I am going to Simferopol and Yalta) but 8 to 1 in Kiev.  It sounds like I would do well to inquire about the exchange rate at the airport during my layover at KBP, and to do my exchanging there if it is close to 8. 

I think the idea that the rate will typically be higher in Kiev than in Crimea and it would be better to exchange at the airport in Kiev rather than waiting to get to Simferopol is wrong. Despite what you understood here, exchange rates in Kiev vs Simferopol are not so different and the airport is the worst place to exchange dollars if you want a decent rate.  Exchange only enough at the airport for what you need to get you into town where you will find much better rates.  Also, if possible, do the exchange in Simferopol rather than Yalta where you won't get such a good rate.

I'm afraid Yalta may be somewhat of a disappointment this time of year as in the winter months it is really a ghost town, nothing like in the summer at the peak of the tourist season.  You will get better prices on things and will have some of the tourist spots all to yourself, though.  I would recommend taking the tram to the top of Ai Petri.  I took our daughter up there one winter and, though cold, the view was incredible and we had a lot of fun playing in the snow.  There's only one small cafe for food there, but they have snowmobilers who will take you for rides (just be sure to negotiate the price first).  One option is a cave they can take you to, which is pretty cool.

[ambach123]

Russia cuts off gas supply to Ukraine.

Without gas, there is no heat in the chilly winter. This time the Russians are mad at Ukrainians.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/01/01/russia.ukraine.gas/index.html

[OlgaH]

Russia cuts off gas supply to Ukraine.

This time the Russians are mad at Ukrainians.

Mad?    Gazprom warned the Ukraine Government many times before to cut. The Ukraine Government must pay the dept.   

[Simoni]

They did pay the debt only to have the Russians double it; after the fact.   The old soviet union mentality has not changed.
They want to control nearby countries.

The U.S. has responded today, with concerns about turning gas off in freezing weather to millions of families with small children:

"The United States would like to see a restoration of normal deliveries," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said. "The parties should be resolving their differences through good-faith negotiations, without supply cutoffs."

The frigid weather is of particular concern, the White House said. "We urge both sides to keep in mind the humanitarian implications of any interruption of gas supply in the winter," Johndroe said.

[BC]

They did pay the debt only to have the Russians double it; after the fact.   The old soviet union mentality has not changed.
They want to control nearby countries.

Tariffs, taxation and embargoes have been used for centuries.

Of course politics is involved..

Nothing wrong with that.

As long as most countries drool at the prices UA pays for gas there ain't much they can complain about.

Should RU subsidise UA?

[ECOCKS]

So, possibly this is the year for Ukraine to get the wakeup call?

[BC]

So, possibly this is the year for Ukraine to get the wakeup call?

Call it 'tat' for UA flamboyance during the Georgian conflict.

Fazit: Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[Simoni]

We are guilty of the same in the U.S.  We buy cheap oil from the middle east and refuse to develop policies that make us energy independent.  This results in us funding both sides of the  wars in the middle east, and being buddy buddy to evil countries like Saudia Arabia.

I would love to see the world market change in such ways with alternative energy that Russia and the middle eastern countries would beg for someone to buy their oil and natural gas.

[Diplomacy]

It should have been a bigger wake up call in 2005.  Ukraine does have their own natural gas deposits and have not gone very far in improving their own mining potential.

They did though do a better job with larger deposits.  It is hard to say what one could do in this situation.  If Ukraine paid off all debts, including penalty then they have less to bargain with.

Does Ukraine have a right to lower gas prices to begin with from Russia?

Could the world really tell them they have to sell at a deeper discount than Western Europe?

Natural Gas prices will lower to be in line with lower Oil prices.  So Western Europe will see a lower cost in Spring 2009 if all things are equal in Spring 2009. 

Ukraine also wants a higher transit price for gas passing through Pipeline.  So keep that in mind also.  I can understand percentage difference of increased gas is a fair asking.

What good is the Gas if Ukraine can say no transit through Ukraine?  A much higher cost of delivery through other pipelines for Russia.  Which then increases costs further to western europe.

Very complex situation IMO.

Until Victor and the rest of Kiev can start finding a way to work together, the gas is a perfect example of how much of a mess Ukraine is all IMO.

[Diplomacy]

Where are they now?

This was 2006

http://www.vancoenergy.com/vanconews/ukrainemulls.htm

[ECOCKS]

Tymoshenko revoked their contract on the grounds it gave too much away.  They were planning on rebidding it but little has happened since the revocation (this summer).

[Misha]

We are guilty of the same in the U.S.  We buy cheap oil from the middle east and refuse to develop policies that make us energy independent.  This results in us funding both sides of the  wars in the middle east, and being buddy buddy to evil countries like Saudia Arabia.

Well, keep in mind that the country that is in first place in terms of sale of crude oil to the USA is Canada and Mexico is in third place Saudi Arabia is sandwiched between the two.

[Diplomacy]

Ed:

Yes, and the revoke caused some tension with President Bush and he said it was a very big mistake and should be rethought.  So instead of giving too much, is it better to have nothing but potential?  Plus the bitter taste from US investors?  Am I off base here?  Or is that the way the cookie crumbled?

[ECOCKS]

Absolutely not.  I thought you were asking what happened to them.  Tymoshenko screwed up on this one (IMHO).  Now, instead of a possible new field which would have begun making progress towards coming online, we have.....nothing.

That's Ukraine though.  Lots of potential but damned little achievement.

[Diplomacy]

Well as they say there is two sides of the story.  I heard it from one side was seeing if there was anything being said over how they could justify the decision.  Greed and another lost chance for Ukraine.

I wonder how more chances they think they will get?  I do not know what it would take anymore to get the ship at least on a course.  5% of the worlds mineral deposits sit in waste.  It is really hard to watch, there is no real reason for any of this other than power and greed.

It is one thing when a country has nothing on the potential of greatness.  Of course potential is one of the words I dislike most in the English Language.

I just like to hear different perspectives. 

I had one conversation that sums it up. 

Me:  How can you think about charging American Rates for an apartment for people that are here to deliver aide and help your city?

Him:  What?  I not charge you more than Ukrainian?

Me: Pravda (Truth or Really)  Basically meant I was calling him on it.

Him: Da Pravda

Me: Spit on the ground

Him:  Oy

Me: No we do not need your place Spasiba

Him: Oh, I give you better price

Me:  No, we do not have time to be insulted

Him: ???

Me:  We not help the City no more

Mind you this was a person of influence

I had them pull up anchors and not another drop of Aide from anybody I have contact with.

Who gets hurt?  The people, Always the people.

Chomy? (Why) The people just see it as SSDD. 

[OlgaH]

They did pay the debt only to have the Russians double it; after the fact.   The old soviet union mentality has not changed.

Simoni,

They must pay according to the contract - debt and fee for payment delaying that is mentioned in the contract (it is usual procedure to specify fees in a contract)    Gazprom will "double" price (it will be $230-$250 1000 cu m and it will be half the current average price in Europe) for Ukraine only in 2009 if a new contract will be signed. Thankfully to the "old soviet union mentality"  Gazprom sold gas Ukraine in 2008 with the price $179.5 per 1000 cu m that was much less than the price for EU. Belarus paid $127,9  per 1000 cu m and Moldova paid $190 per 1000 cu m. Gazprom gas price to Europe in 2008 was $400-500 per 1000 cu m, now Gazprom plan to bring gaz prices for Europe and some counties of FSU who are reliable partners down.

CNN
Naftogaz Ukrainy also disputed Gazprom's claim that it owes for past deliveries, saying Thursday it has paid its debt to Gazprom in full, though it declined to give a figure.

Of course Naftogaz Ukrainy declines to give a figure, because they don't have it as they did not pay 

Ukraine not only country Russia has gas contract with, but Ukraine is only country Russia has problem with about payment. 

[ScottinCrimea]

Ukraine does have their own natural gas deposits...

Better check your sources on this one.

[Diplomacy]

Scott:

Did the exploration bring up nothing?  I did not ever hear the fact that the natural gas was nonexistent as a factor before.  Interesting though I would like to hear more.

[ScottinCrimea]

Scott:

Did the exploration bring up nothing?  I did not ever hear the fact that the natural gas was nonexistent as a factor before.  Interesting though I would like to hear more.

I'm sorry.  You were saying that Ukraine has no natural gas deposits?

23-01-2006 17:17 Ukraine viewed one of world's twenty nations possessing biggest natural gas deposits
This was aired by Industrial Policy Minister Volodymyr Shandra who said that Ukraine is seeking to diversify its sources for gas.

There are also considerable deposits of oil and natural gas in the Carpathian foothills, the Donets Basin, and along the Crimean coast.

Oil and natural gas are concentrated in Pridneprovskiy-Donetsk (80%) and the Prichernomorskiy-Crimean oil and gas bearing regions. Oil and gas deposits on the continental shelf of Ukraine in the Black and Azov seas are also deemed ripe for development. Ukraine satisfies its oil and 25% of its gas needs

The exploitation of petroleum and natural gas in Ukraine necessitated the creation of an extensive pipeline transport system. Natural gas from Dashava (in Subcarpathia) is piped to Lviv and then to Kiev. Natural gas from Shebelynka (in eastern Ukraine) is piped to Kharkiv; another line runs to Poltava and Kiev; a third goes to Dnipropetrovsk, Kryvyy Rih, and Odessa; and a fourth brings gas to Slov’yansk and other cities of the Donets Basin for municipal and industrial uses, including metallurgy

Ukraine has also agreed to hand over $1.2 billion in natural gas deposits to Gazprom as part of a debt clearance deal announced by Russian Prime Minister Vikto Zubkov on 8 October.

[IAmZon]

WOW!  I am proud to have started this thread.  I have not checked in to RWD in weeks.  This thread has received much action.  Very interesting stuff.  The quality of posts on RWD is very high.  Excellent company.  BTW - Happy New Year.

As for me, I live in Colombia now (and amazingly, I am still just a beginner in Spanish.  Sin Embargo, my Salsa dancing has become very good).  In Cali, the dollar is 2240 pesos.  That means that a good diner, drink, shirt is about 25% less than in the states.  Labor is a great deal.  Real estate is very affordable.  Luxury items, electronics, and automobiles are very expensive.  A Colombian that makes above the equivalent of 75K annually enjoys a quality of life that is difficult to match in the US.

How goes these issues in Russia / Ukraine today? 

Costs were HIGH for Americanos just a year ago.  Has any sobriety set in yet?  And do these changes create any associated change in RW's perceptions of AM?

(BTW - Colombianas are BEAUTIFUL ... equally hot tempered and emotional as an RW ... but, GOD do I miss intelligence!!)

[55North]

(BTW - Colombianas are BEAUTIFUL ... equally hot tempered and emotional as an RW ... but, GOD do I miss intelligence!!)

Are you sure that you don't mean 'education' rather than intelligence?  I would have thought intelligence to be generally universally and equitably distributed, but not necessarily developed by a good education.
 
No matter what one's opinion of Soviet society, most will attest to the high standard of school education.  My wife is evidence of that.

[IAmZon]

I generally agree with your comment about intelligence and education.  Throw in the general characteristic of a person being "modern" .... and it just seems that the lights burn brighter elsewhere.

OF COURSE there are exceptions!  But generally I think this observation is true.

Virtually all the women I have met from Eastern Europe and Russia are impressive mentally - yet I have mostly met students?

[Muddy]

Part of the email I recieved 2 days ago:

I am at work! Everything is good but we have some not good situation with selary!(( This month we have not 100% only 60%! But nex month it must be better!!

[Makkin]

  Seems you can have a wonderful society but without proper "infrastructure" you are doomed to be a third rate society in many ways. The FSU needs to build an infrastructure that helps the general public rather than sell oil and gas at will. Maybe invest in the people more and the people will think kinder thoughts of it's leaders.

  A woman I've met and dated recently explains to me how she does not care about Ukraine because Ukraine does not care about her. She understands how other countries people care about the country they live in but she made it clear to me she has no such feelings for the reasons I have explained in top paragraph.

Makkin

  Buy silver now and watch a 180 day movement.