nervousness

[Son of Clyde]

My wife says I am nervous and I get jittery and raise the tone of my voice.

Sometimes, I don't even realize I am doing it.

It comes with building frustration from a strong willed woman who does not always want to listen to what I am trying to tell her.

I was watching television today and saw an old Dick Van Dyke program. Rob was using the same tone with Laura because he brought home Buddy Sorrel's dog, Larry without asking her first. Rob overheard Laura telling Ritchie that her and daddy discussed everything together before making any decisions. So Rob got nervous about having the dog in the car. It was exactly how I behave sometimes.

I seem to remember many Americans use vocal inflections to indicate frustration, anger and just to make a point. Never, have I screamed at her or the boy.

Does it mean I can never raise my voice in the house or adjust my tone to make a firm statement?

[wxman]

I don't think FSU men are any different than AM. I have heard many a time Ukrainian men raising their voices and the same with the women. The inability to fully communicate can be frustrating, and with frustration does come a different tone of voice. I'm sure her tone of voice has also changed when frustrated. Until she gets a better grasp of the language, the problem will not disappear.

[KenC]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

My wife says I am nervous and I get jittery and raise the tone of my voice.

So what?  Explain to her that it is due to frustration and not nervousness.

Sometimes, I don't even realize I am doing it.

It comes with building frustration from a strong willed woman who does not always want to listen to what I am trying to tell her.

Prepare yourself, because this is just the beginning and your frustrations are not going to disappear anytime soon.  My experience is that RW have a lot to learn when they arrive in America but are used to being in charge.  They won't let a little thing like not knowing what they are talking about get in the way of trying to lead you.

I seem to remember many Americans use vocal inflections to indicate frustration, anger and just to make a point. Never, have I screamed at her or the boy.

That is a very good thing and you should be proud of it.

Does it mean I can never raise my voice in the house or adjust my tone to make a firm statement?

Ahmm, NO.  You have every right to display your mood as long as you are not abusive in any way.  Some RW have a way of pushing their men until they crack.  I don't know if it is a test or a sincere motivation to be in control.  Many Russian women are really the head of the household and she may be looking to be in that position.  You appear to be somewhat passive from your posts.  That attitude might make her think that she can dominate you.

KenC

[jb]

Those complaints may also be a measure of her own frustration.  I've been together with my wife for 4 years and there are still moments when she manifests frustration at not knowing what exactly to do.  Hurricane Rita bearing down on us now is an example.  According to my wife, hurricane Rita is all my fault and I should have made motel reservations to evacuate last month,,, no matter that no one even knew Rita was out there, as yet unborn.  I should have planned for this emergency,,, thus, it's all my fault.
She's never been through a hurricane before and she hasn't a clue about what we have to do.  However that doesn't prevent her from terrorizing me because I can't prevent a storm strike.  If she weren't so scared it would actually be funny.

I wouldn't put too much worry into her words, watch her actions and reactions, they will tell the tale far better than the words her still limited vocabulary can muster.  For all her outward bluster and force, inside she's still a very insecure new immigrant who has not yet got things,,, even very simple things, figured out.

It all takes time.

[Son of Clyde]

Here is a prime example.

I am giving her a food allowance of $150.00 for the week so we went food shopping one night.

After finishing, I took my place in line and she proceeded to walk around the store. Well it was her that had the grocery money, I only had $40.00 for $96.00 of groceries and when it was close to my turn in line I started to worry. She told me later that there was plenty of time and she was aware of my place in line. The cashier was extremely slow.

I was still nervous about possibly having to explain why I was $56.00 short if she did not come back in time. Several people were now behind me in line. I excused myself and asked the person in front of me to watch my basket for one minute. I did a quick dash to one of the food aisles where she was looking around and called to her in a loud voice.

[Admin]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

Here is a prime example.

I am giving her a food allowance of $150.00 for the week so we went food shopping one night.

After finishing, I took my place in line and she proceeded to walk around the store. Well it was her that had the grocery money, I only had $40.00 for $96.00 of groceries and when it was close to my turn in line I started to worry. She told me later that there was plenty of time and she was aware of my place in line. The cashier was extremely slow.

I was still nervous about possibly having to explain why I was $56.00 short if she did not come back in time. Several people were now behind me in line. I excused myself and asked the person in front of me to watch my basket for one minute. I did a quick dash to one of the food aisles where she was looking around and called to her in a loud voice.

SOC,

Your story reminded me of something that I thought would be worthwhile to share with you and the board. Pardon my long illustration as I make my point - and my pop-psychology (though, in this instance, I believe it is sound).

First, it is important to understand that there are varying degrees of things to be upset (nervous) about.

Nervousness - such as you display in your story - is usually about some sort of learning that COMMANDS you to follow the rules. In this instance, the rule that you MUST be able to pay IMMEDIATELY when you arrive at the cashier. It's in the same class as the person who is compulsive about being prompt to meetings (controlling their own behaviors compulsively) - or the person who is obsessed with insuring good table manners from their children (controlling others behaviors).

Consider for a moment what would happen if you DID arrive at the cashier and could not pay the full amount. What would ACTUALLY happen? Will the cashier jump up and down and scream - and then what? Will the people in line behind you mutiny and . . . hmmm, maybe worst case, beat you to death?

In the real world, neither of these are realistic possibilities. The MOST likely scenario is that the cashier will express some mild upset while he/she waits for you to retrieve your wife - or they may even help by calling her over the loudspeaker. The people in line might give you some skewed looks - but that would be about the worst of it.

So what is the real problem? It isn't that OTHERS are going to be so upset - it is that YOU, for reasons only YOU can uncover, were offended at your wife's failure to stand by your side and be there for you to provide comfort - and in the process, she also exposed you to an uncomfortable situation. Your response was to seek her out and bark at her.

SOC, you may not like my comments - but I think you were displaying an issue that is within YOU, and if this issue is playing out in your marriage (as you indicate it IS) - AND - you are concerned for the long-term quality of your marriage - I suggest you consider looking introspectively.

May I also suggest that - since you are within easy travel distance of NYC - that you consider attending some of the programs by Albert Ellis, founder of the Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy organization. You can find their website here: http://www.rebt.org.

You may not be aware, but Albert Ellis (still living) is considered one of the most profound developers of psychological theory and practice of all time. His work will go down in the annals as just as significant as those of Freud and Jung. And he has an organization that is within a short distance of where you live - and they can help.

Please do not misunderstand. I am not suggesting you are to BLAME for anything - I am merely suggesting that you describe a fairly classic scenario that suggests you (and your new family) might benefit if you look more closely at the dynamic(s) that led to your behaviors - and the REBT organization is just one resource - but one which I highly recommend.

I hope this helps (sincerely).

- Dan

[Bruno]

Clyde,

Don't worry, it is normal... don't you know that woman are strange animals...

The speciality of my ex-wife was to command a lot of furniture via catalogue just before she take her yearly holiday in russia... she stay two month and me only one month... so, i am able to make some big work at the home... but each time that i am back, i need to pay the bill for the furniture and i am not more able to buy the material for the work... and when she is back, she is not happy because i have not make the planned work...

Don't try to understand, woman have other logic that man...

[Son of Clyde]

Thanks Dan and Bruno.

At this particular food store, the clientel are not the most patient because the service is poor and the lines tend to be long. It takes more time in line than it takes to shop. But my area is a very congested one and this is common. I hate lines in general and especially holding up a line.

Yes, I worry about things such as being in debt, being on time, having people bark at me and looking foolish.

Dan, I have a book by Dr. Ellis that I will try to read again. I think it is about being a person.

[Bruno]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

Yes, I worry about things such as being in debt, being on time, having people bark at me and looking foolish.

About being in debt, i agree with you... i have know this hell long time with a local girlfriend...

About being on time, i was so before my first russian marriage... and with a young daughter, it was more bad... now, i have learn that try to be always on time is a source of stress, not very good for my heart...

Looking foolish... i seem foolish but i know very good what i make... don't take care of what the other thing... they are not in your shoes...

[Admin]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

Yes, I worry about things such as being in debt, being on time, having people bark at me and looking foolish.

SoC, I know it may not be easy to do - BUT - try not to sweat the small stuff. Life has enough genuine crises - there is no need to create them when they aren't there. FWIW

Dan, I have a book by Dr. Ellis that I will try to read again. I think it is about being a person.

There is actually a great deal to the body of psychology that Ellis founded - though, IMO, it is only one or two pieces in an overall quite complex puzzle. Still, his work on RET, and the ABC-DE technique, is some of the most simple and inspired work ever published.

For those who may not know, the formula works like this:

A: Adversity
B: Belief
C: Consequence

When someone is faced with an Adversity (of any magnitude), they process the event through their Belief System - which describes, with internal dialogue (thoughts) what to expect in the way of Consequences.

Example: I was late to my Math class (adversity) - so now my Dad will spank me with his belt (Belief and Consequence # 1), I will probably fail the class (Belief and Consequence #2), and my life will be hell forever (Belief and Consequence #3).

Ellis response to this is to apply D & E.

D: Disputation
E: Evidence

Disputation with Evidence.

Rather than allow your Beliefs and Consequences to run away with you - apply some "Rational" thinking about what to expect in the way of Disputing those IRrational B&C with Evidence.

To dispute the B&C's above, the person could ask themselves:

#1 - How late was I? Will the teacher/professor report this incident? How will my father find out? Has my father ACTUALLY spanked me with a belt when I have been late in the past?

And of course - the rational answers to those questions *may* lead the person to a different, more moderate expectancy.

One of the simple techniques that RET promotes is the notion of putting an adversity on a scale of physical pain - to address how serious it really is.

For example - IF that cashier has screamed at you - and IF the people in line had made rude comments - how bad is that - in REAL terms? Such as:

* Is it as bad as if someone (your wife) accidentally stepped on your foot) Yes - OK, then;
* Is it as bad as someone (your 6' 5" - 240 pound male neighbor, ex-professional football player) getting angry at you and punching you in the nose and breaking it? Still Yes - OK, then;
* Is it as bad as geting in a traffic accident and you suffer the loss of your right arm to amputation? Well - probably not that bad.

OK - so it is almost as bad as a punched and broken nose (actually, probably not - but I am illustrating here ), but not as bad as the loss of your right arm - so somewhere in between. Well, how serious is that? No permanent damage - only a little temporal pain - and in REALITY, probably not all that much.

Well, you get my point.

I hope it helps.

- Dan

[wxman]

I thought most grocery stores in this country accept debit/credit cards. Even in my part of the country it is common place. So if the worst was to happen and she did not return to you when you reached the clerk, could you have not paid with a debit or credit card?

[Rvrwind]

try not to sweat the small stuff

Sound advice but sometimes very hard to live by,:(.

Anybody who knows me personally knows I am a pretty laid back kinda guy. I very seldom get uptight or bent outa shape. I can't recall the last time I was angry until yesterday, the first time in my marriage that my wife saw me truly & utterly pissed right off to the point that I was cursing this country & every cotton picker in it.

To relate the story I have to step back a little bit & bring you up to date. Now anybody who has tried to start a buisness in Russia will understand my frustration & the straw that broke the camels back. In my defence I have been getting very little sleep for the past 2-3 months due to trying to launch a buisness as well as hold down a fulltime night job & it is starting to take its toll, even my wife realizes & notices this & trys her best to relieve some of the burden but is unable to make a dent big enough to make a real difference, so as of late I have been on edge quite a bit & sooner or later the dam had to burst & yesterday was it.

Russia in its entirety does not make starting or operating a buisness easy. In fact I would almost say they go out of their way to make it as bloody difficult & rediculous as they possibly can. They cry & whine that they want foreign investment but then turn around & frustrate you at every turn. Its not bad enough that you have to run around to 4-5 different places to get one stupid piece of paper to say you can legally do buisness but all the other little things they throw at you that are common sense in the west but the dumbass state employees here take to extremes just to justify their existance. I have no doubt now why the Soviet Union collapsed. With these idiots running the place it was bound to happen sooner or later.

Anyway the last straw was yesterday when we recieved a notice from the post office that there was a registared letter for the company & we had to pick it up, they wouldn't deliver it. Okay no problem, thinking ahead & knowing the way the system works here I decided to cover all the bases, or so I thought.

I knew they would never release it to me so I gave the task to my wife. I gave her the registration papers for the company & told her to take her passport & the piece of paper from the post office. Away we go. First of all even with my wifes knowledge of the city it took us damn near 2 hours just to find this freakin' little room of a post office in some back alley in the middle of nowhere Tver!!! Sheesh, don't want to be found or what.

We stand in a line of about 15 people & it takes us another hour just to get to the damn wicket window. All this time I'm thinkin' I got better friggin' things to do than stand around here with my thumb up my a$$ while this dumb bag behind the counter is trading pleasantries with her coworker for most of the time instead of taking care of buisness. My wife shows her the paper they sent us & the lady then asks her for ID, no problem the wife flashes her passport, now she asks her for proof that she owns the company, no problem, I thought. We give her the registration papers with my wifes name & signature all over them.

This old bat looks them over & tells my wife, this proves nothing, you could have stolen them. WHAT????? I f*&^(% freaked. I started screaming at this woman & if I coulda reached her I'da slapped her right upside her fat head. What the f%%%#$@ are you talkin' about woman? We spend two freakin' hours trying to find this damn  outhouse sized hole in the wall another hour standing in line while your bullshittin' with your buddy & you have the gaul to call my wife a thief. You over paid slack a$$ed bi%ch. She may not have understood but she knew damn well I was some pissed. I was so mad I couldn't even remember how to swear in Russian!!!

Everybody around me including my wife took a few steps back because I'm sure they though that all hell was about to break loose & believe me, they wern't far from the truth. So now we have to go to a notary republic & pay more freakin' roubles to get a piece of paper & a stamp to prove that my wife is the registared owner of the company just to please some overpaid fat assed ugly cow in an outhoused sized post office in a nowhere back alley. I'm sorry but I just can't help but bang my head against a wall at the stupidity of it all.

This is only one 'for instance' there are many more in this process I have gone through that I have managed to remain calm, outwardly at least. But this one just rubbed me the wrong way at the wrong time & I exploded.

My bookkeeper had me laughing so hard I was in tears, only she didn't realize that it was total frustration that had me laughing so hard not the fact that she was funny.!! It was that or kill somebody!!!

Every now & again I guess you just got to let go or have a heart attack!!!!:X

My wife says I am a scary man when I get angry. I said that is probably why I try never to get angry but enough is enough with the runaround squeese some more roubles out of us bu!!sh!t. She just laughed & agreed, Russia is not an easy place to do buisness or anything else for that matter!!!;)

RVR - Canadian Cowboy

[Ste]

Russian folks are hard to live with eh, RVR!!

Nadia and I were walking through Maidstone, town centre about 7:00pm, quite empty, gearing up for the evening rush of eaters, drinkers and pissheads. We walk past a cafe with tables and chairs outside and all the cutlery you could ever want on the tables. Nadia says, eyeing up the silverware:

"We could steal that.........."

Long pause, then she says apologetically.....

"That sounds very Russian, doesn't it....?!"

I never said a word. Perhaps they've all got the opportunist thief in them!

Hope she doesn't see this post!

Ste

[catzenmouse]

Russian folks are hard to live with eh, RVR!!

Nadia and I were walking through Maidstone, town centre about 7:00pm, quite empty, gearing up for the evening rush of eaters, drinkers and pissheads. We walk past a cafe with tables and chairs outside and all the cutlery you could ever want on the tables. Nadia says, eyeing up the silverware:

"We could steal that.........."

Long pause, then she says apologetically.....

"That sounds very Russian, doesn't it....?!"

I never said a word. Perhaps they've all got the opportunist thief in them!

Hope she doesn't see this post!

Ste

LOL Ste. Elena said the same sort of thing about changing price tags on some clothes one time when we were shopping for her. I gave her a funny look and she agreed that this would not be right. It really is a whole different world where they come from and attitudes and behaviors are not so easily changed.

Ken

[Bruno]

LOL Ste. Elena said the same sort of thing about changing price tags on some clothes one time when we were shopping for her.

My ex-wife was surprised with goose and duck in our public park... she have explain me that in her city, Lipetsk, people have eat the goose and duck in the public park !!!

 

[calcowboy1]

Hey there Rvrwind,

Nice one!!!, you sounded like me this week.  I just got screwed over by one of the local travel agencies.  I snapped as well, and my wife went silent.  She has never really seen me that upset, I am pretty much a laid back guy as well, but I just had it with dealing with Russian business's.  I remember the last time you and I spoke on the phone, and I have to admit, I think I would have wet my pants if I saw you that excited

You must have balls of steel to try and open a business in Russia.  Just the thought of dealing with all that BS makes me sick.

Keep the faith and good luck in your business venture.

Cheers!

Calcowboy (The last Cowboy still in country)

[Son of Clyde]

I stood my ground and did not get nervous when the kid was asking for the parental code on my television. He had been downloading shows without knowing I had to pay for them. I decided to block the pay and adult channels. He said I was treating him like some stranger off the street.

He is only 14 and may look 16 but I don't think he needs to see the adult stuff. Mom feels the same way. Still he got angry.

[KenC]

Stay the course, Clyde!  Remain fair but firm.

KenC

[PeeWee]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

Here is a prime example.

I am giving her a food allowance of $150.00 for the week so we went food shopping one night.

After finishing, I took my place in line and she proceeded to walk around the store. Well it was her that had the grocery money, I only had $40.00 for $96.00 of groceries and when it was close to my turn in line I started to worry. She told me later that there was plenty of time and she was aware of my place in line. The cashier was extremely slow.

I was still nervous about possibly having to explain why I was $56.00 short if she did not come back in time. Several people were now behind me in line. I excused myself and asked the person in front of me to watch my basket for one minute. I did a quick dash to one of the food aisles where she was looking around and called to her in a loud voice.

Clyde, you just made me chuckle. She seems like any woman in a store...I don't think Russian has anything to do with it. It seems to me when a woman enters a store they also enter the space cadet mode. With that said the quickest shopper that I have ever witnessed is Lara. She almost sprints down the isles. Hands fly and before you know it that basket is full and in the meantime she has caught up on all the latest gossip with everyone in the store and still manages to get pissed at me for not paying for the food. I only need to learn it once. Next time I'm going to head for the check out counter the minute we hit the store. She might just beat me there but I will have at least wired the money ahead to the store manager via Wester Union. No one gets the drop on PeeWee, not even a ball busting RW.

 

PeeWee

[Son of Clyde]

PeeWee, I agree that shopping is a universal experience and woman will be women.

[Albert]

Clyde, I am reminded of something I read about 6 years ago, just before I made my first trip (for business with ladies secondary) to FSU.

On a discussion site such as this a newbie was asking a lot of questions about the FSU gals, etc.

An old timer (don't remember who) made the remark:

"FSU women are not for entry level dating."

From all that I have read (not being judgemental at all), you were and are at the entry level.  And yet you went far beyond the dating stage, with a kid thrown in to boot.  Pretty scary situation, I think.

[KenC]

Albert,

"FSU women are not for entry level dating."

A very good line, in deed.

KenC

[Coulter]

"We could steal that.........."

I am very, very surprised: honesty is not the first quality some men would check before engaging themselves...???!!!

[Ste]

"We could steal that.........."

I am very, very surprised: honesty is not the first quality some men would check before engaging themselves...???!!! [/quote]

Well my post was tongue-in-cheek although the event did I described did happen.

Dare I confirm what I said and say again *maybe* there is some inherent latent dishonesty in Russian psyche? Look at any Russian PC, no licenced software at all, look in the computer shops, dodgy DVDs, Divxs, and compilations in seemingly pukka estalishments.

Look at the Fat Yuri's, pro-daters, GCG's not forgetting the Militsia, and basically anyone in authority.

Born out of neccesity and social conditions IMHO.

Oh, and I'm not engaged to anyone!

Ste

[Rvrwind]

[user=333]Ste[/user][user=333] wrote:

Russian folks are hard to live with eh, RVR!!

Quite the contrary, IHMO. Now nobody obliged you to do so.

"We could steal that.........."

I am very, very surprised: honesty is not the first quality some men would check before engaging themselves...???!!!

[/color][/u][/user]Can't say as I find the folks themselves hard to live with at all.

Its the buearucratic machine that wears you down depending of course if that is where your energies are focused in what you are planning to do. Just a normal everyday lifewith friends & family is most enjoyable & no problem at all.

I think your taking the honesty comment out of context. Here in the FSU honesty is a luxury many people cannot afford. People will steal the most absurd things. Because a woman makes a comment to the fact that something could be stolen so easily does not make her dishonest or a thief. I have been living here for 2+ years & still am quite surprised when I see a security guard in a jewlrey store with a Kalishnokov!!! You don't see such things in the west, very few security guards in the west are armed at all, at least in Canada.

When I think back on how I used to leave things out & about in my yard like my lawnmower & motorcycle, for example. I would never even entertain the thought of doing that here.

People need to survive, jobs are scarce & money is even scarcer, they do what they need to do, just to get by & if that means stealing it, then they steal it. Its not as bad as it used to be, I'll admit, but I still wouldn't leave my apartment or office & leave the door unlocked. I would & did in Canada on many occaisions & never had to worry.

A couple of examples I am familiar with is the sandwich board buisness signs on the street. There was a whole wack of them stolen & repainted & resold for a certain group of clever thieves to make money. Or the story a friend told me about the Russian city his lady is from where people have taken to stealing the manhole covers off the water line access holes & selling them for scrap iron. Instead of replacing them they just fill the holes with dirt & plant a tree in it so drivers know there is a big assed hole there & drive around it.

Rediculous I know, from a wstern perspective but tell me, if you lived their life in their shoes would you be any different when it comes to putting food on the table for your family. I think not. I am not saying it is right by any means. Stealing is wrong, but I can understand why they do it & sometimes must. The survival instinct in us all is very strong & we do what we can to survive, people have even gone so far as to commit cannibalism to keep from starving to death. Sure not someting I would ascribe to but I can understand why they had to. The instinct to survive is within us all & until you yourself are in that position you cannot judge others for their instintual need to survive.

But because someone comments on it doesn't make them dishonest, if someone thinks it, it doesn't make them dishonest. However if they act on it, then they are dishonest! Therin lies the difference.

RVR - Canadian Cowboy