Wife split!

[Doll]

I don't know if this is what Kievstar is referring to, but IMO the more Wayne writes, the more obvious it becomes (to me) that there were great big red flags appearing long before she moved into the other bedroom which he either didn't pay attention to, or chose to overlook. Wayne is in a difficult situation right now, but he had the power to stop it long before it got to this point, on any number of occasions.

Red flags? Like what? Like round garbage can instead of square?  Or wanting to just tan on the beach and not wanting to look at the pictures?
Before Wayne posted his last messages I did have doubts about his wife but now I can tell she was not GCG.

[Gator]

Before Wayne posted his last messages I did have doubts about his wife but now I can tell she was not GCG.

And what does a GCG look like?

[Doll]

And what does a GCG look like?

I am not talking of the picture

[Vaughn]

I did have doubts about his wife but now I can tell she was not GCG.

Doll, can you explain what doubts you had? What was it about her actions that
caused you to harbor doubts?

What did Wayne write recently that changed your mind?

[Doll]

Doll, can you explain what doubts you had? What was it about her actions that
caused you to harbor doubts?

What did Wayne write recently that changed your mind?

Vaughn,I explained already. It didn't changed my mind- I just don't have doubts now that she didn't leave just for GC.
What did he write? These things about round chairs and other stuff that irritated him. She herself irritated him and I think she heard a lot from her husband and it hurt.

[dispozo]

 In this forum we mostly hear about men who have suffered at the hands of scammers or GCGs but I haven't seen a thread anywhere about Nina Reiser.  

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7914.0

Try using the search function.

[ScottinCrimea]

Wayne, I think the bottom line is that you weren't compatible, no matter what your looks, your house, etc. and no matter how badly you wanted it to be so.  Either you didn't take the time to learn this or you ignored it hoping things would change once "this" happened or "that" happened.  I can't believe that if you had spent much time together you wouldn't have noticed those things about her that you now find so annoying.

[Vaughn]

I haven't heard of a single case where a wealthy Russian woman was conned by a poor American, though I can believe it's happened.

It was sad for us to watch a local couple's marriage crumble under these exact circumstances. It dragged on
for five years and has finally reached its conclusion.

Doll,  regarding your statement that

These things about round chairs and other stuff that irritated him.

I have to disagree. I got the impression that Wayne found these quirks rather odd, and may have assumed
such oddities may have been clues to her overall behavior. In general, it sounded (to me) that Wayne went to great
lengths to appease this lady - far further than I would have.

The flags, as far as I'm concerned, appeared long before she arrived - and Wayne overlooked them,
perhaps intentionally.

[felix8787]

What did he write? These things about round chairs and other stuff that irritated him. She herself irritated him and I think she heard a lot from her husband and it hurt.

Couldn't there be a huge possibility that he irritated her and she was just going along with it until she gets her chance to leave? For Wayne to do what he did and supported her for 4+ years, I don't think he would care to much at all about round chairs or other stuff as you said.
If anything her overall attitude and behavior towards him did a complete 180 after they got married. For a immigrant woman with a child to leave....what was it that you said:
 

It IS close to a suicide, guys. To stay in a family with a husband is preferable.

So she should be pretty close to taking a very long dirt nap. But if it is preferable to stay in a family as Wayne does provide a roof, food, income and whatever else to please her and thus avoid a potential social suicide (which obviously she doesn't care about). What was her ulterior motive then? To move to NYC and get her cosmetology license and then come back to Wayne when she got her sh1t together?
I highly doubt that it was a matter of irritation of her towards him that caused her to leave.

[Russiangirl]

Don't you question why these women got involved with such 'drecks' in the first place? Luck has nothing to do with it. Women are not blind or stupid and they are not being forced to marry these 'drecks'. They are making a conscious compromise to obtain their goals and that is the crux of the problem.

I agree with you, the duped women are at fault for not being more careful and getting to know the men they marry. However, often women really don't know any better. As the saying goes, "бабы - дуры" ("women are fools"). 

Who is the current most preferred target of a WM looing for an easy mark? Not highly educated "spoiled" girls from Moscow, not the girls who know what's what and can at least approximately tell if the guy is full of it, or if he's for real.

Oh, no. The target is clueless "simple" girls from far and away tiny cities and villages, the girls who have never been abroard, who hardly speak the language, whose economic conditions at home are usually very depressed, so that hopefully she'd be eternally grateful to her savior...

Now, if a guy can lie just a little, for a girl who lives in some remote depressed area - a broken trailer can be made look like a palace, unemployment benefits like lush living sufficient for a king, and a lying loser drug addict like a smart enterpreneur, a good father to her children...

I agree, both AM and RW are responsible for finding a compatible match instead of relying on blind luck. But I also know that many people in former SU are CLUELESS about real life in America. Ignorance makes for a very easy mark.

Russiangirl, you seem to have a low opinion of many of the men involved in this pursuit.

Isn't it better that a Russian woman ends up with a bit of a broken heart from one of these men than end up marrying him?

Agreed. It would be much preferable not to get married at all. Cut your losses, and run. But there's plenty of girls who did get married, and had their share of sorrows far surpassing that of AM that were "duped" (or self-duped, I suspect) by GCGs.

Look, I'm at least partially with Maxx - I'm highly sceptical about the average chances of happiness in internet international marriages. Most of these relationships will not work long term, IMHO. Unless you take it slow and try to find your real match instead of an imaginary goddess or a prince, you're doomed...

But I also believe that sometimes happiness IS to be found at the other side of the ocean. And it's just too bad if those few who could have been happy will instead succumb to paranoia and ruin their chances.

It's NOT the GCGs that's the main problem. It's the communication barrier, cluelessness about each others' culture, different expectations and goals in life (even when words used to describe one's aspirations are the same, the meaning is very often completely different), different expiriences and belief system... It's not just about the language, it's often about being mentally almost from a different planet.

If one can overcome all these obstacles - more power to you, and the best of luck.

[Misha]

Who is the current most preferred target of a WM looing for an easy mark? Not highly educated "spoiled" girls from Moscow, not the girls who know what's what and can at least approximately tell if the guy is full of it, or if he's for real.

Oh, no. The target is clueless "simple" girls from far and away tiny cities and villages, the girls who have never been abroard, who hardly speak the language, whose economic conditions at home are usually very depressed, so that hopefully she'd be eternally grateful to her savior...

Have you ever met the "cluless simple" girls from the villages? I have met many and they are not so clueless nor as simple as you would imagine. Many are as shrewd and cunning as the highly educated girls from Moscow 

[Jet]

What did Wayne write recently that changed your mind?

I know you asked Doll, but I'm going to throw another $0.02 in here.
To me, this single sentence speaks volumes:

Wife's smile is much better since her teeth were fixed.

It suggests that Wayne is still counting pennies, calculating what his wife cost him, and using it as a benchmark for how appreciative she was supposed to be. This is a very dangerous way of thinking in any relationship, and exponentially worse in a cross cultural one. I may be going way out on a limb, but I'd wager this has been going on at least since she arrived in the US and maybe longer than that. If you make a loan and both parties agree to the terms, you can and should expect to be paid back. If you give a gift, the receiver is under no such obligation.

[Russiangirl]

Many are as shrewd and cunning...

Many, but not all.

I met plenty of highly naive girls from the provinces, whose only fault was lack of information. Pulling wool over their eyes would be like taking candy from a baby.

But, I'll concede your point - some are MORE shrewd and cunning than city girls. Therefore, buyer beware! LOL.

[Misha]

But, I'll concede your point - some are MORE shrewd and cunning than city girls. Therefore, buyer beware! LOL.

Well, a woman from a village moving to a city expects that she will have to deal with the problem of housing: she will have to find a place to stay. This means working harder to succeed in her career or finding a man with an apartment. Some can be quite ruthless and are more than happy to compete against their urban counterparts  :evil: So, yes, a foreigner somehow expecting that a woman from the "country" will somehow be simpler or more naive may be in for a nasty surprise. Again, comes down to knowing who you are going to marry.

[Gator]

Most of these relationships will not work long term, IMHO. Unless you take it slow and try to find your real match instead of an imaginary goddess or a prince, you're doomed...

That's the answer! 

My wife and I took six years in a convoluted process before we married.  Even with all that time (which was too long), there are still questions, not because we don't know each other but because we are at different stages in life.  So far, our goals remain aligned.  I am a happily married man brimming over with gratitude to have her and her children beside me. 

[Gator]

Many people have made valid observations.  Both Doll and William3rd have done so even though they are polar opposites. 

These two posts are excellent summaries, plus good guidance for men endeavoring to marry a RW:

Wayne, I think the bottom line is that you weren't compatible, no matter what your looks, your house, etc. and no matter how badly you wanted it to be so.  Either you didn't take the time to learn this or you ignored it hoping things would change once "this" happened or "that" happened.

In general, it sounded (to me) that Wayne went to great lengths to appease this lady - far further than I would have.

The flags, as far as I'm concerned, appeared long before she arrived - and Wayne overlooked them, perhaps intentionally.

There are other excellent observations, yet these two being recent and spot on caught my eye.

[Lily]

Ok, armchair psycholigists, they say a photograph is worth a 1000 words.

I agree with Maxx's comment on the woman, but as far as about the pictured man, I find him more attractive than the woman on the right. 

[Jooky]

But I also know that many people in former SU are CLUELESS about real life in America. Ignorance makes for a very easy mark.

I know I'm not realistic, but here's the problem: Women should be marrying for the man, not for life in America. Even if life in America is worse than life in Russia, this should not matter for a compatible couple that married for love.

It's not just about the language, it's often about being mentally almost from a different planet.

I agree, and it's not just about culture either. It's about mismatched individuals.

And it's just too bad if those few who could have been happy will instead succumb to paranoia and ruin their chances.

I don't think that's a big worry. I think Maxx's stories make men more aware than paranoid. Those that do become paranoid are probably those that would end up with a trainwreck on their hands anyways.

[OlgaH]

Well DAMN IT! she should not have agreed to marry Wayne if she had no "chemistry" with him.

Exactly.

If you read the Wayne's posts in the past, you will see that his first RW did not like something and she left, she did not marry him. O. married him and was waiting till her GC to leave him and during that time she found a boyfriend, or who knows may be she has had the boyfriend before she married Wayne (as it was in the Avi's case).

[Maxx2]

(as it was in the Avi's case).

Avi is the name of a fellow I made a documentary film of. Perhaps Olga you could start another thread called "Avi's Story" that could be a movie review? It would be a shame burying that here in page 78. Gator should have a copy by now and Jet whose address I have I will soon send a copy to. I am getting a list of addresses of interested people to send this to.   

I agree with a lot of what Russiangirl posted above. I take back my comment that she doesn't know squat. We differ in degree on most things. I agree with her that GCG are not the main problem with these marriages. My sense is that a GCG problem is a smaller percentage of broken up marriages. But a fairly significant percentage. The majority of breakups are for reasons she stated above.

I have more optimism than she thinks that marriages to foreign women can lead to a happy conclusion. 

I try not to stir up paranoia. Just caution to the possible problem. Using myself as an example. My ex-wife had issues in her life that she did not want to discuss. I respected her privacy and would not push to find out what was there. I should have but I wasn't "paranoid" (caution) enough to insist on knowing her private areas. I hear of marriages where husbands refuse to talk about their ex-wives to their wives. Sometimes this works out fine and other times the baggage of this previous marriage makes it's self know only after the marriage. The later happened along with her GCG plans in regard to me. My guess with Wayne something similar happened.


Maxx   

[Misha]

My ex-wife had issues in her life that she did not want to discuss. I respected her privacy and would not push to find out what was there. I should have but I wasn't "paranoid" (caution) enough to insist on knowing her private areas.

Good point Maxx. I believe a man should know EVERYTHING possible about his future wife and vice versa. If she can't trust you to talk about everything, then you are not ready for marriage IMHO.

[Doll]

wouldn't have noticed those things about her

What things?

[Doll]

 
 So she should be pretty close to taking a very long dirt nap. But if it is preferable to stay in a family as Wayne does provide a roof, food, income and whatever else to please her and thus avoid a potential social suicide (which obviously she doesn't care about). What was her ulterior motive then? To move to NYC and get her cosmetology license and then come back to Wayne when she got her sh1t together?
I highly doubt that it was a matter of irritation of her towards him that caused her to leave.

You are very close. She couldn't take something any more. I called this something "irritation" just to be polite.
I've never met O, I've just read Wayne's posts and can tell - there was something she couldn't take.

[Doll]

I know you asked Doll, but I'm going to throw another $0.02 in here.
To me, this single sentence speaks volumes:It suggests that Wayne is still counting pennies, calculating what his wife cost him, and using it as a benchmark for how appreciative she was supposed to be. This is a very dangerous way of thinking in any relationship, and exponentially worse in a cross cultural one. I may be going way out on a limb, but I'd wager this has been going on at least since she arrived in the US and maybe longer than that. If you make a loan and both parties agree to the terms, you can and should expect to be paid back. If you give a gift, the receiver is under no such obligation.

This too.
I agree with Jet

[Doll]

I agree with Maxx's comment on the woman, but as far as about the pictured man, I find him more attractive than the woman on the right. 

The way people look is not always the way to judge, also you forgot he is very much older than his wife. Needless to say she IS a very good looking woman, she is beautiful.