Wife split!

[Doll]

I had a friend in CA- he married an UW with 2 teens.A nice house (I was there) , a nice area. He called me 6 months after they got married- L. got her kids and left for Ukraine,didn't want to come back."Ah, I was so nice to her and the kids, ah, ah!"
I talked to her later - her husband was extremely cheap and mistrusting. She never (!!!) shopped herself, was never trusted a dollar , her kids never had candies or ice-cream , no movies, nothing. "Ah, I was so nice to them- I brought them from Ukraine"
BTW he dated 3 or 4 more RW - same result.
Marriages are marriages everywhere, boys.

[Diplomacy]

What is RW perspective on how husband should treat children?  Given most of the women I know grew up with no father in the home.  Many times leaving mother to not be seen again.

With that sort of male influence or lack there of.  How do you hold views of men in general and the view of proper male love to your children?  What is not treating them properly?

[Doll]

What is RW perspective on how husband should treat children?  Given most of the women I know grew up with no father in the home.  Many times leaving mother to not be seen again.

With that sort of male influence or lack there of.  How do you hold views of men in general and the view of proper male love to your children?  What is not treating them properly?

Oh, this I don't know! I can only speak for myself.Being friends is a good thing for AM and her kids.There is often a problem when AM has the kids from his previous marriage. This is our problem.

[Diplomacy]

Yes, and I assume he does not have custody and misses his children.  You have to deal with Exwife as mother to the children.  Makes for tough situation.

How do your children act towards him?

[Doll]

Yes, and I assume he does not have custody and misses his children.  You have to deal with Exwife as mother to the children.  Makes for tough situation.

How do your children act towards him?

His EX never stopped kids from coming to see their father- she is a good woman.
Before we came they were with their dad every weekend then they got jealous and it changed. The boy was 16, the girl was 11, now the son is 23 and he is quite close to his father, the girl does not show up at all, doesn't call .
I don't have to deal with the EX- she is a decent woman.

[Doll]

How do your children act towards him?

My son is good when my husband is good  , when the step father is not so good- the boy just stays away from him.I am lucky- my son is a very calm kid, also smart.

[GoodOlBoy]

I am glad to see this discussion has turned to the topic of "CHILDREN".

Doll, in your opinion, at what age does your "child" become an adult and no longer your husbands responsibility?

I have seen a lot of 38 and 39 year old RW/UW advertise themselves on these dating sites with "children" 18, 19, 20 etc. years old.

The women also make statements something like this in their profile: "My new husband is expected to accept my "child"??

This is a problem for some Americans, because at 18 we are considered adults in this country, ie: get a job, join the military, move out on your own, etc. etc.

[Doll]

Doll, in your opinion, at what age does your "child" become an adult and no longer your husbands responsibility?

I was thinking of it and was not sure but by now I know that not before my son is out of college. His son lives with his mother and step father though he is 23 and already works in school. This gives me a chance to keep my boy at home longer- at least till he is done with college. 

[Doll]

I have seen a lot of 38 and 39 year old RW/UW advertise themselves on these dating sites with "children" 18, 19, 20 etc. years old.

The women also make statements something like this in their profile: "My new husband is expected to accept my "child"??

It is because they want to take these kids with them.

This is a problem for some Americans, because at 18 we are considered adults in this country, ie: get a job, join the military, move out on your own, etc. etc.

Like I said- my step son (23) and step daughter (18) live with their mother in their house and their step father (EX's husband) contributes a lot in supporting the whole family. All of them- born Americans.

[GoodOlBoy]

Thank you Doll.
I am always interested in a Russian lady's opinion. 

[Jet]

OK after being chastised by Maxx and a few others, I thought maybe I missed something so I've gone back through all 44 pages to re-read what Wayne has stated as "the facts of the case" and I've constructed a little timeline:

January - March 2008

Before the visa interview in Moscow, the medical exam and tests are done and the results are picked up later that day or the next morning. 
The TB skin test is usually checked after three days. 
I think she new there was a problem and did not tell me about it before our wedding.

If there was a problem, visa would not have been issued.

March 2008 arrived

Then, when they came, Delta lost part of their luggage. 
I helped wife fill out the forms listing all the items lost and it totaled up to more than $6000. 
Since it was an international flight, the payment received was only about $1600.
Wife had a very large file from the embassy to hand carry.
Also, there was the dog.  So she packed important papers in the checked baggage.

There is natural all around.  It is much different from the busy city where wife lived.

April 2008 married

No sex since the wedding night.

If I earned more money and had less debts, everything may have worked out.  Wife was expecting a better life.

For some undisclosed (maybe unknown) reason sexual intimacy ceased. Could it be part of a GC "plan"? Maybe. Could it have something to do with losing most of her belongings, including documents critical to her future, and then immediately learning that the man she moved halfway across the world for, to a place that was completely alien to her, was not in the financial position to meet expectations? How did she acrue those expectations? Maybe something he led her to believe, before her arrival?

May 2008
No info

June 2008
No info

July 2008

Wife rerceived the work authorization card in mid July, but has not found work.

Not uncommon, but another reason to feel stress, anxiety, and entrapped - like one is not in control of their life and future. In this case it is magnified exponentially by the presence of the daughter. None of these emotions have ever given any woman I've ever known feelings of arrousal...

August 2008

Our AOS interview for the 2 year GC took place 5 months after the wedding, in Detroit.
I was expecting to be asked questions about the marriage relationship--but none were asked!  I would have told the truth to any questions asked of me.  I really did not know what was going to happen and I expected that the truth would come out the the green cards would be denied.

Official approved the green cards with the condition that a letter that she typed and printed out would be signed by the country health department showing that wife had started taking the antibotics for the latent TB.  Wife took this letter.  I assume she took if with her when she went to the health department and returned it within 30 days of the AOS interview.

Told the truth about what? ??? That his wife was a bad housekeeper? That she slept in the next room? That she didn't "put out" on command? None of these are reasons for AoS denial.

September 2008
No info

October 2008

A little over a week ago, she got angry again, started an argument.
Next day, came home from work, found wife and step-daughter gone
Two days ago, wife shows up at house.  Angry!  Demands her mail, but she did not receive any.   
Wife admits she has a boyfriend and moved in with him. 
Says she is moving back in.

So after 7 months with no suggestion of improved conditions (or at least movement TOWARDS her expectations) she's had enough and decided to look for the bigger better deal, on her own. Even in rural areas, there are no shortage of "knights in shining armor" willing to jump in and rescue an exotic damsel in distress, at least until the divorce papers are finalized. Immoral? Absolutely! Illegal? That depends...

Wife has been coming to the house to check for her mail while I am at work.

Not illegal to check one's mail, though it is illegal to withhold mail that's addressed to someone else.

Today, she came with an officer. She is at the house moving back in.

Not illegal to ask a cop to accompany you if you feel unsafe or that there may be an altercation forthcoming (You know with a jealous husband that just found out yesterday you were banging some other dude while he was sitting at home cluelessly awaiting your return).

I do not want people to think that wife is such a terrible person. I think she is getting advise from a lawyer and other Russian women.

Probably is getting advice from a lawyer, as should Wayne, as should anyone on the brink of divorce, regardless of Nationality.

November 2008

Went back to the house with two other people and asked her if she wanted to talk.  She said to talk to her attorney.

Exactly what any divorce attorney that wasn't a complete idiot would have told her to say.

I am not in jail.  I am not in trouble with the law.  I do not have much to report right now.  I am alone in my house for more than a week now.

Maybe some of you guys would be willing to charge into a courtroom with the timeline above in hand, screaming that this greencard girl needs to be convicted of defrauding the USCIS but I sure wouldn't. The probability that she scammed him for a GC is reasonably high based on circumstantial evidence, but the facts of the case are WEAK. My opinion based in what WAYNE wrote (I did not read 98% of the other commentary) is that Wayne oversold himself before she arrived. It took her a while after being here to understand just how much he oversold himself, and when it was obvious that this condition was not a temporary situation, she made the decision to see if maybe she could do a little better going it alone. I do not condone what she did, or how she did it, or think she is a blameless victim of circumstance; but I don't think I'm ready to slap the "GCG" moniker on her quite yet either, based on her husband's testimony so far.

[Maxx2]

I don't think I'm ready to slap the "GCG" moniker on her quite yet either, based on her husband's testimony so far.

I wonder what it would take? Deciding to wait until after the wedding night to move into another bedroom. What would you call Lil is she pulled that on you Jet? If she cut you off from sex and then lined up a boyfriend who was buying her expensive clothes? But wanting you to violate the law by pretending you had a bona fide marriage so she could get her green card? It's the guys who make excuses for their wives' bad behavior who are the one's who give their wives enough time to carry out their plot including setting them up for DV charges. William3rd an experience immigration attorney has no reservations that she is a GCG. I know Jet you are an intelligent and proud man but you should be able to admit when you are wrong.


Maxx

[OlgaH]

She faced her first visa problem in 2005.

She came on a K-1 in March 2008.  Married in late April. 

Before the visa interview in Moscow, the medical exam and tests are done and the results are picked up later that day or the next morning.  The TB skin test is usually checked after three days.  I think she new there was a problem and did not tell me about it before our wedding.

Hello all,

My Fiancee, Oksana, and her Daughter, Yana, have visa appointment scedudeled for 24 August 2005.  They wlll come to Michigan as soon as she gets the visas. 
 

Hello all,

Oksana and Yana had a very, very bad experience at the US Embassy in Moscow today!

They went to the medical exams on 22 august.  They noticed that Oksana had a callus or blister or something on her finger.  Oksana said she got it from carrying around her heavy luggage.  The medical staff told her to re-schedule the visa interview because the embassy would not take her finger prints with a damaged finger.  (What finger would I like to show to ass holes!)

So today, 24 August, Oksana went to the embassy.  I did not get all the details yet, because Oksana is very upset.  She said that she was humiliated and this was the most difficult day in her life.  The results are that the interview is re-scheduled for 1 December. 

Our visa petition was approved on 4 Feb 2005, and arrived in Moscow a few weeks later.  Three months were wasted on AR before the interview was set. 

Now, we have to wait three months more!  Is there anything to be done?

Did Wayne oversell himself before she arrived?

When Oksana asked the father for the permission letter--he demanded $3000.  So she hired an attorney and went to court to get a court order.  This process took two months.  I had to provide copies of my income tax records, letter from employer, notarized statement saying that I would marry Oksana and take care of her child, information and photographs of my home, and many other items. 

With Oksana, I have thought about the future.  Actually, I like children very much and have a Son 26 years old, and two  Daughters 24 and 21 from a previous marriage of 17 years.  I would not mind having another child, when Oksana and I are married--however, she cannot have any more children because of a medical condition.  Her Daughter, Yana, is 14 years old.  So I will take responsibilty of helping to raise her.  Oksana wants to work and to save money for a college education for Yana.  Certainly, this is fine with me.

Oksana is 33 years old.  She works as a Hairdresser and likes this work.  She had gotten married at 18 years old, and did not have a chance for a college education for herself.  She wants a better life for Yana.  Her first Husband did not help raise Yana.  He does not pay support. 

Oksana is a Hairdresser.  I bought some used salon chairs and have an area where I can install a shampoo sink, as the plumbing is already there.  She will not be able to get a job in a salon until after she gets the Michigan license, but she can practice on friends and family at our home. 

I down loaded all the information that she will need and printed it out for obtaining the Hairdresser license.  I also printed out all the rules she will need to learn for getting a driver's license in Michigan. 

I purchased a hair dryer, CD player for Yana, many new towels.  I have a book written by two Russian people who have lived in America for ten years about how to adjust to life here.  One side of the page is in English, the other in Russian.  The advise sounds good.

I planted a vegetable garden with everything she likes to eat. 

I got a new kitchen range a month ago, and a new refrigerator will come next week.  I have a new home that I designed and build myself and am just finishing it.  I have some new pots and pans.  Furniture and window coverings can come later, although the bedrooms all have drapes or blinds. 

What am I forgetting?

Probably he forgot to have with her a serious talk about her (a hairdresser without even college education)  expectation of better life... ? or may be he did not forget? 

[Jet]

Maxx, I never said OJ didn't kill his wife, I simply said the State didn't prove their case.  

With the information we've been provided, a mediocre attorney could pokes hole in Wayne's story big enough to throw a cat through. That's all I'm saying...

[Maxx2]

Olga, it sounds like Wayne is one of the most thoughtful caring men on these boards. Thanks for the research on all those posts.


Maxx

[Doll]

Today, she came with an officer. She is at the house moving back in

.

Not illegal to ask a cop to accompany you if you feel unsafe or that there may be an altercation forthcoming (You know with a jealous husband that just found out yesterday you were banging some other dude while he was sitting at home cluelessly awaiting your return).

Either she reads this board or she just knew about the locks changed so she came with the cop.
Jet, she knew about the locks, I think.

[William3rd]

Maxx, I never said OJ didn't kill his wife, I simply said the State didn't prove their case.  

With the information we've been provided, a mediocre attorney could pokes hole in Wayne's story big enough to throw a cat through. That's all I'm saying...

Why is it when some ya have a losing position, suddenly we want to be discussing a court case?

Wayne is not on trial here. The standard is not beyond a reasonable doubt. It is preponderance. 51%. GCG for sure for sure. BTW- infidelity voids the marital contract. Does explain the lack of sex.

Since we have Rabie here in CA, the facts warrant educating a family law judge through testimony and trying for annulment in this state.

BTW a mediocre attorney would probably be enough to shred the GCG and draw out Wayne's testimony.

[Jet]

William,
The reason for my posts, was not to say that she didn't try to scam Wayne for a GC. It was because I take issue with the mob mentality, and the fact that on page 1 of this 45 page thread there were already people suggesting "hang da b*tch, she's a GCG!" without having hardly any information. The posts Wayne made subsequent to that had contradictory information, but that didn't matter, the freight train of public opinion kept on chugging along full speed ahead. Many had already become entrenched in their positions and nothing was going to change their minds.

 BTW- infidelity voids the marital contract. Does explain the lack of sex.

This is what I'm talking about. You are absolutely correct that infidelity voids the marital contract, and without question a divorce will be granted on that alone, at a minimum. However, unless you are revealing some private information you got directly from off board communication w/ Wayne, you have no way to determine if it explains the lack of sex. Nothing Wayne tells us gives any hint as to whether the boyfriend came first or the lack of sex came first. People stop having sex for a million different reasons and 99.9% of those reasons have absolutely nothing to do with GCs, most of the time it has to do with insecurity and depression. My wife and I didn't consumate our marriage on our wedding night. In fact, it wasn't until about 2 weeks later. Does that make her a GCG? Does it mean she had a BF on the side? If I didn't clue you in to the fact that the reason was because she contracted a fairly severe urinary tract infection 2 days before the wedding, the speculation would run rampant, no doubt, and that's what bothers me about this thread - a whole lot of speculation based on very few facts.

[GoodOlBoy]

If I didn't clue you in to the fact that the reason was because she contracted a fairly severe urinary tract infection 2 days before the wedding....

Jet... I was just drinking my orange juice (breakfast) and I read your post! 

[Wayne]

Wow!  ten new pages since my last post!

Found out in round about fashion from student, wife and daughter went to New York City.  Seems the cosmetology license is much easier for her to get there than in Michigan.  There is also a temporary license and extension possible.

Letter came addressed to me from school attendence officer.  Daughter missed 6 unexcused days.  Called school.  Daughter last attended school one week ago.

Yes, I am thinking about writing the book.

[BillyB]

For some undisclosed (maybe unknown) reason sexual intimacy ceased.

Maybe she didn't like being tied to the bed post and made to squeal like a pig while Wayne tried to mount her. Who knows? I've never defended Wayne but the fact that sex stopped after the wedding night and Wayne supported her up to the interview 5 months later makes me believe Wayne is not a monster she has to get away from. She may never have been physically attracted to Wayne to begin with or maybe she didn't like premarital sex with but if that's true, she shouldn't have married him. She married him and if she supposedly loved Wayne to agree to marry him. She should have fought harder to stay married instead of abandoning the marriage after the wedding night. Culture shock may be a factor in lack of sex during the marriage but the fact she is having sex with someone else tells me that that's not a factor. I think she's adjusting much better than most sincere FSU women who arrive here. She knows who to talk to, friends, attorney, police, and what to do to make that GC happen. She's even got Wayne's support so it'll look silly if he reports her as a GCG when he aided her the whole time. If she's guilty, he's guilty too. If she wasn't adjusting properly, has insecurity, or depression, most likely she'd be asking to go home to familiar surroundings. Good people make good things happen but this story is bad news with no happy ending in sight between husband and wife. Regardless of who's at fault, this marriage should've never happened. There was, at minimum, failure by both persons to correctly evaluate the other on if they're right for each other.

I suspect Wayne's wife knows how to achieve the happiness she wants more than Wayne knows how to achieve happiness for himself. I hope Wayne chooses wisely next time for himself and for this country if he chooses to go overseas again.

Wayne, let it go and you don't need to check up on wife and daughter anymore. They are on the fast track living the life they want, moving to NY and getting an education. They've adapted quickly and quite well to life here. If they need you anymore, I'm sure they'll call.

[BC]

April 2008 marriedFor some undisclosed (maybe unknown) reason sexual intimacy ceased. Could it be part of a GC "plan"? Maybe.

What married man has not spent a night or more on the couch, was put in the doghouse or otherwise denied bodily pleasures?

That this period was prolonged, to me, seems to indicate that there were some serious issues with the relationship and not necessarily absolute evidence of intent to defraud.

In many ways, sex seems to be a method of reward or overcome some emotional hurdle or even to reinforce aspects of dominance(power) within the relationship.  All in all surely mysterious but not unexplainable circumstances.

Put flatly, if she ain't happy you ain't "gittin' nookie".

[OlgaH]

Olga, it sounds like Wayne is one of the most thoughtful caring men on these boards. Thanks for the research on all those posts.


Maxx

Reading through Wayne's post (from his first post in 2005) I'm as a woman can see how much Wayne  put into marriage and his attitude towards her and through his posts I can see her attitude towards him from the beginning.

... And after 5 month, after obtaining her GC, she secretly took his car and computer, I would say in such case she expropriated his property or even stole his car and computer, and left him, more over hurt his feelings towards her with an announcement about having a lover.  Finally she is gone for NY City looking for a better life... 

[BC]

Reading through Wayne's post (from his first post in 2005) I'm as a woman can see how much Wayne  put into marriage and his attitude towards her and through his posts I can see her attitude towards him from the beginning.

... And after 5 month, after obtaining her GC, she secretly took his car and computer, I would say in such case she expropriated his property or even stole his car and computer, and left him, more over hurt his feelings towards her with an announcement about having a lover.  Finally she is gone for NY City looking for a better life... 

Olga,

I'm not disagreeing with you, but she was his WIFE and not an employee.  Think THEIR car, THEIR computer.  Yeah, she meanwhile found another lover.. happens all the time.

[Maxx2]

That this period was prolonged (Maxx: Yeah like 6 months of no sex) , to me, seems to indicate (Huh?) that there were some serious issues with the relationship (Yep that she's a GCG) and not necessarily absolute evidence of intent to defraud (What would be "absolute evidence"?).

This thinking in men is why they end up toast with a GCG wife. It is fuzzy lame weak thinking. Nothing decisive and manly about. Wayne's mistake was not seeing an attorney about his problem back in May within a month of their being married. Then actively and secretly working to separate and establish his intent of a divorce. Now he might get a judge that sees a 7 month long marriage ending might be due to incompatibility issues and not her intent to defraud him. This could cost Wayne $.


Maxx