Wife split!

[BC]

I can add little:   

-  A man with 5 bathrooms and extra dining room sets is unlikely to be a pauper, so out the window goes the theory that Wayne could not afford the new life that his wife wanted.

Wayne admitted that his finances were an aspect and that if he had more they might have been able to do better.  He also admitted to buying a car that was outside his budget.

-  Collecting dog fur is not weird; it is needed in the practice of Russian medical science. 

My wife does buy into a lot of home remedies and will visit the BigWiseBabushka during her visits back home.  No harm done.  In a way I think BWB's do serve as an informal psychologist.  Which is better, a good word from a BWB she trusts or one from a western psychologist she does not trust.  Hey hororscopes are printed daily in newspapers and many like to believe..

-  None of the RW I dated wanted to see a photo of the ex-.

Little interest noted here either.  They did meet though a couple times at functions for my kids.  Message passed to the ex was "IDGAS and he's mine now".

-  For a man who is an artist, I do not detect the traits normally associated with right brain thinkers.

Precious little has been shared.

-  The sex angle could be a large part of the riddle, yet its discussion approaches TMI.

A groom passes down the aisle of the church to take his place by the altar and the best man notices that the groom has the biggest, brightest smile on his face. The best man says, "Hey man, I know you are happy to be getting married, but what's up - you look so excited." The groom replies, "I just had the best blow job I have ever had in my entire life and I am marrying the wonderful woman who gave it to me." The bride comes walking down the aisle and she, too, has the biggest, brightest smile on her face. The maid of honor notices this and says, "Hey, girlfriend, I know you are happy to be getting married, but what's up, you look so excited." "Rightly so," the bride replies. "I have just given the last blow job of my entire life!"

Thanks Wayne for keeping this going.  What is the record for most pages in a thread?

Yep, think it is a record.. 

[ares]

Well, ares,
the bloggers in this thread certainly have   True, I can not add anything to my previous post. This is precisely why I haven't posted again. I spent many years as a marriage and family councilor. First I see them together, then separate for a while, then together again after we work through some issues. In many cases if not all  COMMUNICATION is the main issue along with MISUNDERSTANDING, and listening is the culprit. I'm not talking about language barriers, I'm speaking to the issue of communication exercises, of which LISTENING is most important. This is the reason God gave us 2 ears and one mouth. We should listen twice as much as we speak. I would advise all to exercise listening and become more attentive to our partners, then after thinking a while, respond with a thoughtful answer. To many times instead of listening, we are thinking of a smart response to something our partner said and miss 90% of the words that were spoken. Then we turn away frustrated and angry, building a retaining wall to hold in all our emotions, that separate us instead of a building a home where we can live together. Where is the love?

We can build a case for or against someone very easily with little information.  Are they really red flags or cultural misunderstandings? For every action, there is a reaction. They build up until there is so much water under the bridge you can't untangle the web spun around you like a cocoon, all you want is OUT, so there she goes. Now Wayne sits with an empty nest.  In all fairness to Wayne, some women can not be satisfied. In this case, she is most likely one of them.

Mishenka

I meant it more as a compliment in the form of a metaphor. Your first blog just sounded so professional. It echoed what was germinating in my brain before I was about to put it into words. I don't always have the time to follow all that is said in the threads. This one seems unusually long from my experience. No wonder since what happened to Wayne has happened to so many people. I myself was scammed by a silly e-mail. Something I never imagined would happen to me. But it did. So imagine what can happen in the real world where the possibility & consequences of deception is even more intense materially & psychologically. If someone is set on deceiving you they will not announce it until they get what they want from you or you wake up to them, whichever comes first.

I'm also happy that you brought up the issue of listening which is a talent few of us can really claim to have in high quantity. I agree with you that lack of communication is the cause for many failures in relationships. It's simply exchange of information & thinking through that before you act. 

[Mishenka]

Thanks for the compliment!

mishenka

[Wayne]

Wife spent several hours each day talking on the phone to her Russian friends, but she did not even try to talk to me.  Wife, daughter and student ate dinner early before I got home from work.  Normally, this is a time when the family can communicate.  They discovered how to watch Russian TV over the internet.  Student was the only one who spent any time watching TV with me on the normal channels.  I took daughter and student to baseball and football games, but wife would not go with us.  Before we were married, wife went with me to visit relatives, but after wedding, this stopped.  Daughter and student went places with us when my Son and Daughters came to visit.  Wife avoided my family and friends.  I tried to get wife to do things together.

One hot day in July, boss gave me the friday afternoon off.  So I came home early and wanted family to do something together.  After much prodding, we did go to one of the beaches, but wife only wanted to lay in the Sun and get a tan.  There were several art galleries nearby and a student show right on the beach that I walked around and saw.  I could not get wife interested in anything.

Back in June, we went to USCIS office in Grand Rapids for the biometrics.  After, I stopped at Meijer Gardens.  In case you don't know, they have indoor tropical gardens with butterflies, birds, streams, waterfalls, etc.  Outdoors, there is the famous sculpture park including the large work inspired by Leonardo.  Indoors, they have art exhibits by famous artists.  The show we saw was Dega!  Wife saw the beauthful gardens and wanted her photo taken in many poses.  She got into trouble from some workers because she was walking around and posing inside the exhibits.

Another time, I wanted to show wife and daughter this very unusual furniture store where everything is hand made, one of a kind art works.  When wife saw what was inside the store, she wanted me to ask the manager if we could take photographs.  We go the OK.  Wife was laying on the beds and sitting on the furniture, posing as if for a photo spread. 

There were other occasions for what I consider SHOW OFF behavior.

Wife liked to shop at clothing stores that catered to teenagers.

[Misha]

Wayne,

I am curious, what kind of relationship did you have before she arrived in the United States. How much time did you really spend with her? How well did you know her?

Misha

[BC]

There were other occasions for what I consider SHOW OFF behavior.

Normalna.

After all, what is femininity if it can't be shown...

RW don't seem to enjoy shopping in curlers and house shoes.

-and at least my wife loves posing.

[Blues Fairy]

Is there anything she did that did not irritate you? 

If you disliked her so much, why spend so much time here pouring out your grievances?
Good riddance and the hell with it, move on.

[Sculpto]

Wayne,
Please don't take what is starting to come out the wrong way.  With what you revealed there is some clues that were not evident before. 

 
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings
   
 
  The free bird leaps
on the back of the wind
and floats downstream
till the current ends
and dips his wings
in the orange sun rays
and dares to claim the sky.

But a bird that stalks
down his narrow cage
can seldom see through
his bars of rage
his wings are clipped and
his feet are tied
so he opens his throat to sing.

The caged bird sings
with fearful trill
of the things unknown
but longed for still
and his tune is heard
on the distant hill
for the caged bird
sings of freedom

The free bird thinks of another breeze
an the trade winds soft through the sighing trees
and the fat worms waiting on a dawn-bright lawn
and he names the sky his own.

But a caged bird stands on the grave of dreams
his shadow shouts on a nightmare scream
his wings are clipped and his feet are tied
so he opens his throat to sing

The caged bird sings
with a fearful trill
of things unknown
but longed for still
and his tune is heard
on the distant hill
for the caged bird
sings of freedom.

Maya Angelou 
 

[kievstar]

The more information that comes forward I do not see many things in common.  A woman wanting to get a tan on the beach is normal if you go to the beach.  Not trying to criticise but you wanted family time but than wanted to go to an art show when family wanted something else?  Most women I know in Ukraine would prefer the sun and tan over the art show and love taking pictures.   Your wife came to a foreign country and seems you two have nothing in common.

I had a girlfriend of two years in Ukraine and we had fun together however being married would have been different - not enough in common or agreement on things marriage requires. She also made me visit a psychic in Sevastopol several times but I passed with flying colors however the physic did tell me in front of my ex that I could do a lot better than her (last visit to physic - thank god).  My point is being married and dating is different.  You really have to like someone and have common interests when married.  You can date someone casually and put up with things but being married is something different.

 My current fiance is a lot different and we agree on important things and have common interests.  Everything feels perfect for both of us.  So K-1 is not needed and marriage will take place in Ukraine with no prenup when in USA. But if I married the other girl would have been a disaster.

I wish you luck Wayne.  I did post back originally that you should seek a marriage counselor.  Not sure if you tried doing that but you should.  I think you will find a marriage counselor asking why you married in first place.  With my first wife I had to and ex wife had to take this Catholic test before being marriage to see if marriage would work.  Based on the results the test said we should not get married as we did not agree on certain things.  I bribed the priest and we got married.  10 years later the test was right we always struggled on a few important things.  Were very good friends still but marriage would not work - thankfully we never had kids as we do not believe in divorce once you have kids.  

[OlgaH]

Wife saw the beauthful gardens and wanted her photo taken in many poses.  She got into trouble from some workers because she was walking around and posing inside the exhibits.

Normalna.

After all, what is femininity if it can't be shown...

I would not say that it is normalno when a person's demonstrative behavior goes beyond the moderateness especially in public that finally it gets the "rebukes" 

There is nothing wrong with posing for photos when you know the time and place for it

Not every behavior and dress of a woman that draws attention is her shown femininity it is simply can be her demonstrated vulgarity and bad taste  or not everything that shines is gold 


I join the Misha's questions and also have another one: How mush interest in art did she show during your relationship before marriage? 

How much time did you really spend with her? How well did you know her?

Misha

[BC]

I would not say that it is normalno when a person's demonstrative behavior goes beyond the moderateness especially in public that finally it gets the "rebukes" 

Olga,

Of course the 'public' is a factor..

I remember in the 70's watching German TV.. my dad's favorite was the 'fa' shower gel commercials.. the woman wading out of tropical waves, bare breasted and nipples erect..

Maybe RW are more 'European' when it comes to showing their femininity or even bodies nude.

Even today, those same commercials would be banned from prime time in the US and we are talking almost 30 years ago...

[Misha]

Maybe RW are more 'European' when it comes to showing their femininity or even bodies nude.

Not from my experience. Showing your "feminity" is one thing, walking into the middle of an exhibit because you want a photo taken is another thing. This type of behavior wouldn't be tolerated in Russia.

[groovlstk]

Normalna.

After all, what is femininity if it can't be shown...

RW don't seem to enjoy shopping in curlers and house shoes.

-and at least my wife loves posing.

Yup, and then some. My wife and all her female Russian friends go bezerk whenever a good photo op presents itself. If you specifically look for a woman who takes pride in her appearance, you can't knock her for flaunting it.

I'd also agree w/Kievstar. It seems you have very little in common w/this woman. Was having a pretty face to look at every day enough to keep you happily married? You deserve better than that, Wayne.

[OlgaH]

Not from my experience. Showing your "feminity" is one thing, walking into the middle of an exhibit because you want a photo taken is another thing. This type of behavior wouldn't be tolerated in Russia.

Absolutely agree. 

and yeah, some people go to a museum to enjoy an exhibit and some people go to a museum to enjoy exhibiting themselves 

[BC]

and yeah, some people go to a museum to enjoy an exhibit and some people go to a museum to enjoy exhibiting themselves 

I get the feeling that even so, Wayne was the only person in attendance that was objecting.. 

[Misha]

I get the feeling that even so, Wayne was the only person in attendance that was objecting.. 

The museum employees were objecting   

[Maxx2]

1)  When wife saw what was inside the store, she wanted me to ask the manager if we could take photographs.  We go the OK.  Wife was laying on the beds and sitting on the furniture, posing as if for a photo spread. 

2)  There were other occasions for what I consider SHOW OFF behavior.

3)  Wife liked to shop at clothing stores that catered to teenagers.

1) The photos were not meant for you. Either for showoff to her friends back home or to attract men over the net.   

2) If it was for photos see number 1. or it was about who was watching her besides yourself.

3) Has a 'retaining her youth complex'. Bet she knows quite a bit about facial peals, skin lasering, liposuction and "plastic operations". 


 

[William3rd]

1) The photos were not meant for you. Either for showoff to her friends back home or to attract men over the net.   ALSO FOR A PRIVATE PHOTO ALBUM TO COMMEMMORATE HER LIFE (NOTE THAT HE IS NOT A PART OF IT-NEVER WAS AND NEVER WILL BE)

2) If it was for photos see number 1. or it was about who was watching her besides yourself. YEP

3) Has a 'retaining her youth complex'. Bet she knows quite a bit about facial peals, skin lasering, liposuction and "plastic operations".  THIS WAS NOT FOR HIM EITHER-FOR THE NEXT BF WHO WILL BE A LOT YOUNGER

SAME WITH THE BOOB JOB OR ALL THE OTHER STUFF SHE WAS INTO-NOT FOR THE US  MALE ATM MACHINE
 

[Blues Fairy]

Has a 'retaining her youth complex'.

Who doesn't? Can you show me one woman who honestly doesn't mind getting and looking older?
I try to watch my weight - does it mean I have a "retaining my weight complex"?  Oh yes, and I also shop in junior sections of department stores sometimes, because their size chart and fashions suit me better.  Something wrong with me?

Seriously, guys, when one is as PO'd about a woman as Wayne is, one will find fault with the most innocent things.  Isn't it easier to just let go, even if she was not the most intelligent lady (as is apparent from the description).

[Sculpto]

1) The photos were not meant for you. Either for showoff to her friends back home or to attract men over the net.   

I don't think it is fair to assume that Maxx.  In fact his reaction to her may have been at the root of some of the problems.  I was joking the other day in the post about bondage.. but.. what if she had certain ideas about the way intimacy should be and it didn't work out that way, even though they had been intimate before?  Maybe she was on the bed in the furniture store flirting with Wayne but he took it the wrong way and when she got a negative reaction she closed off to him even more?

[felix8787]

So, when I looked to FSU countries for a younger woman I was really wanting to start a new family.  There was one 35 year old Ukrainain woman who was never married and wanted to have a child.  I wrote to her for about 6 months, but never went to meet her.  I think that was she less attractive, but a much better choice for me.

Ok, playing the devils advocate....you posted this up on Oct 29. I can't help but to think, "Were you looking for a trophy wife?" Some young hottie that you could marry and have babies with? Instead of someone that you would have common interest with and live life happily ever after.

Wife spent several hours each day talking on the phone to her Russian friends, but she did not even try to talk to me.  Wife, daughter and student ate dinner early before I got home from work. 
I took daughter and student to baseball and football games, but wife would not go with us. 
Before we were married, wife went with me to visit relatives, but after wedding, this stopped.  
Wife avoided my family and friends. 

Was she ever really interested in you and your world? Sounds like she never was.

So I came home early and wanted family to do something together.  After much prodding, we did go to one of the beaches, but wife only wanted to lay in the Sun and get a tan.  There were several art galleries nearby and a student show right on the beach that I walked around and saw.  I could not get wife interested in anything.

How much prodding/nagging did you do?
I don't see nothing wrong with her wanting to lay and get some sun while she was there. What did you expect her to do, be all over you at the beach?
Did you ever ask her why she wasn't interested in anything?

Wife saw the beauthful gardens and wanted her photo taken in many poses.  She got into trouble from some workers because she was walking around and posing inside the exhibits.

Another time, I wanted to show wife and daughter this very unusual furniture store where everything is hand made, one of a kind art works.  When wife saw what was inside the store, she wanted me to ask the manager if we could take photographs.  We go the OK.  Wife was laying on the beds and sitting on the furniture, posing as if for a photo spread. 

There were other occasions for what I consider SHOW OFF behavior.

Wife liked to shop at clothing stores that catered to teenagers.

Well you did want a hot/beautiful young wife. You could of married someone that was less attractive and had common interest with.

[Misha]

Seriously, guys, when one is as PO'd about a woman as Wayne is, one will find fault with the most innocent things.  Isn't it easier to just let go, even if she was not the most intelligent lady (as is apparent from the description).

Pretty much. From what I gather there was ZERO compatibility. Other than the fact that she was much younger and attractive, why did Wayne marry her in the first place?

[felix8787]

Other than the fact that she was much younger and attractive, why did Wayne marry her in the first place?

Well you he did want a hot/beautiful young wife.

[OlgaH]

Well you he did want a hot/beautiful young wife.

Question also is why she hot/beautiful young woman in her 36 did marry a man who is much older than her and with whom she doesn't have nothing in common? 

[groovlstk]

Maybe she was on the bed in the furniture store flirting with Wayne but he took it the wrong way and when she got a negative reaction she closed off to him even more?

I'd never buy this. Wayne's wife never loved him and never desired him sexually. At best she hoped something would bloom after she arrived. There was never any commitment on her part to work through issues like this, otherwise there would have been at least a half-hearted attempt. It's what people do in even semi-serious relationships - not to mention married couples. There was not some indecipherable cultural cue peculiar to RW that Wayne missed. When people care about each other, they try to work this stuff out, it doesn't matter if she's Russian or Martian.

It's easy to blame Wayne for some faux pas or behavior that his wife found intolerable, but I can't help but believe the gist of his posts if only because if you look at his history, he's been very consistent. Consistent in his headlong drive to fill a wife vacancy, consistent in his devotion to this woman who became his wife and then dumped him, and perhaps most of all consistent in his ability to deceive himself.

Contrary to what some might think, I also believe that people on this board do not automatically side with the man in this situation. If you look at this thread, for example, the OP found himself in a similar position as Wayne yet very few sympathized with his fate:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8045.0