Kiev disaster - Sept. 4-Sept. 15, 2008

[Sculpto]

I agree Frenchdudes advice is a little odd. 

There are many methods to success, some will work for one guy and not the next.  Some guys go on tours, have a great time and meet thier future wife.  Other guys go on tours and hate it.  Some guys use agencies, even the letter writing mills and still manage success, others use agencies and in the end feel they wasted time and money.  Some guys wmvm and other wmvo or wovo, all with various degrees of success.  I wrote wmvo and so far it has worked out very well.  And, my correspondence went on much longer than most people advise.  Everything will depend on the particular individuals involved. 

I am now more than ever of the opinion that if you are able to have success with AW in dating and attraction and so on your chances for success with FSUW is much greater. 

[steve057]

Great post Bill! You have me hanging on the edge of my seat wondering what will happen next!
 I did think it was funny the comment about the black man walking by the cafe, I ran into this in St Petersburg as well. A city of 4.5 million people and I saw 3 black men the whole time I was there. The woman I was with made the comment that "Russia was for white people only" and I was a little shocked to be honest! If she would have been with me in the airport in Paris she would have wet her pants with all the blacks that were there!!
 I also see nothing wrong with going to the Ukraine or Russia to see just one woman as long as you are confident you will get along. Of course there is always that chance you won't but that is why you bring a computer with you. Yes, from here it's a long flight to see just one woman but what happens if you tell them all you are coming to their city to see them and it works out for the first one? Sorry sweetheart you lose! Not very fair wouldn't you think?

[GoodOlBoy]

Please continue Bill !! We are waiting.

IMHO there is a difference between a backup "plan" and a backup "girl".

Years ago, I had a backup plan when I went to go meet my wife (I took my laptop with me, loaded for bear). But, I did not have a backup "girl" waiting on the hook for me. I don't think that is a very fair way to treat another human being.

BTW, didn't need any backup (3 1/2 years, still happily married).

[steve057]

GoodOlBoy, you are right there is a big difference in a "backup" plan and a "backup" woman. The plan is not a bad idea but that "backup" woman might get you into trouble IMHO 

[groovlstk]

I also see nothing wrong with going to the Ukraine or Russia to see just one woman as long as you are confident you will get along. Of course there is always that chance you won't but that is why you bring a computer with you. Yes, from here it's a long flight to see just one woman but what happens if you tell them all you are coming to their city to see them and it works out for the first one? Sorry sweetheart you lose! Not very fair wouldn't you think?

One of the problems with being "fair" and behaving like a gentleman is that if you are using agencies and dating beautiful women, there is a good chance that she has a local boyfriend and is meeting other Western guys - all during the same week you're in town. Is that fair to the 40-year-old virgin who arrives in a city like Kiev or Moscow thinking that his trust and loyalty will somehow impress a woman who is already pulling the wool over his eyes? There are very concrete reasons why Russian and Ukrainian people assume all Americans are gullible and foolish, and this behavior is right up there in the top five.

FWIW when I met my wife I travelled to meet her and her alone, yet earlier in my search I always had a backup plan or intended to meet more than one woman. IMHO, if you exchange a limited # of emails and phonecalls w/a woman and fly out to meet her alone and then realize in the first 30 seconds she's not what you expected and spend the rest of your vacation in your flat, don't come crying to papa.

Likewise, if you meet a woman who seems to be everything you dream of yet insist on putting her on the back burner because you want to meet others - and she then tells you to flake off - you deserve the boot print on your arse.

It's a complex issue and men will always champion whatever method worked for them, but it's a personal choice and I'm willing to bet most guys opinions on this matter will change over the course of their search.

Now, back to Bill's thread...

[steve057]

groovlstk, I understand what you are saying!

Please continue Bill!

[bill12920]

Day 3
Tanya arrived in the morning wearing the same clothes for the third day in a row (wonder if she washes them every night?). Her facial expression looked clearly distressed already. I asked her if anything was wrong and she said she had back pain and her mother had been angry with her. Note to self: Really pay attention today to the metro stations and directions inside the metro in case I have to leave this woman soon and go it alone.

Although I was doubtful that we would be together more than another day or two, I still wanted to do something nice for her. Afterall, she had arranged the apartment, met me at the airport, transported me to the apartment, kept me from starving to death in a strange land where I couldn't read the menus, spent all of her time with me each day as my personal tour guide, etc. Her purse looked somewhat old and tattered and, as her birthday was only about 2 weeks away, I suggested that we should go shop for a new purse for her. She took this to mean that I was ashamed to be seen with her and the current purse! (This woman could put a negative spin on winning the lottery). After a few minutes of convincing her this was not the case, we went to the metro station and on to points unknown. Once again, it was a 100 degree day with no shade and no air conditioning. Very sweaty. I suggested to her that maybe we should just rent a car and be done with all this public transportation; That we could go everywhere we wanted in air conditioned comfort. Tanya told me it is not possible to rent a car. I asked why but she just said 'not possible'. I told her I have international driving license and money so it is possible. She got mad and said I don't trust her and don't believe her again. I said I'm just CURIOUS as to why its not possible. You can't tell me just 'not possible' but provide no reason. She said there are no cars for rent here. Gee, I seem to remember passing a Hertz counter at the airport. Must have been a dream. Nevermind, she apparently knows everything and arguing with her is futile!

We were riding in the metro for a long time and made a change to another track at one of the stations. I've never lived in a city that had a subway system so this was different for me. One time the train lunged forward unexpectedly and I went flying halfway across the car and landed flat on the floor. Everyone pretended they did not even see this. Except for Tanya who thought it was the funniest thing she had ever seen and she laughed uncontrollably for 20 minutes straight. Wow, she CAN actually laugh at something! Anyway, no harm done but remember to ALWAYS have a hand hold in the metro. Eventually the train came out of the ground and crossed over the river. I was amazed by what I saw. It appeared that there was a park all along the entire bank of the river. There were lush green forests, shade trees, sandy beaches, and thousands of people playing down there. They were wearing shorts! They didn't have shirts or shoes! They were cooking food, sailing small boats, drinking beer, floating on rafts, riding jet skis, playing in the water, catching fish. Fantastic! This is what we do in Florida on hot days and they have all of the same things here in Kiev! Meanwhile, I'm sitting in this greenhouse of a train, dressed in hot jeans, hot shoes, shirt, all stuck to my body because of constant sweat and I can't drink enough water! I said Look Tanya! a beach! Lets go there! She said no, its not a good place. I asked what is the problem with it. She said the water is dirty and you will get sick if you go in the water. I asked about all of the hundreds of people who were clearly playing in the water. She said 'they are crazy and they will be sick tomorrow'. OK, hundreds are crazy but you are the  normal one. Makes perfect sense. I suggested that we could just rent a sailboat but not actually go into the water. She said she was scared of it because she cannot swim. Good lord, does she like to do ANYTHING fun?

Eventually we left the metro and walked a good while under the blazing sun. Apparently we passed a butcher shop because Tanya recoiled at the 'bad smell' (which I hadn't noticed and could not detect). She told me animals are killed in there for meat and it is very sad and not good. Then we came to some type of huge indoor flea market. I had read about places like this; There were stalls upon stalls of fake designer goods. Purses, jeans, watches, you name it, it was all there and usually priced around 50% of the normal price. It looked as if an entire container ship from China had been unloaded into this building. Did I mention it was hot? The building had a metal roof and was not air conditioned. We walked and sweated and looked at hundreds of purses but she did not see anything that struck her fancy. Then she decided that MY wardrobe needed changing! Admittedly, I was just wearing basic T-shirts every day due to the hot weather. I had brought along nicer shirts for evening wear, but we usually ended our evenings by 9:00 or 10:00 and never went to any nice places so the good shirts never left the suitcase. It didn't make sense to me to wear an expensive shirt and lean up against a dirty metro seat or bus seat, and to sweat in it all day long so I wore my T-shirts. All of them were new and dark colors. Tanya found some spandex T-shirts and told me to buy these because I should be wearing tight fitting shirts. Yuck!! I don't want to look like Borat and also the thought of wrapping my body in tight, synthetic fabric in 100 degree weather was just not appealing. You need loose fitting cotton for extremely hot weather so I told her I was happy with my shirts and did not need to buy any and that we were shopping for her. She told me angrily that she doesn't like my shirt!

Then we reached the shoe section. All of the famous Italian names were here, but again, for a fraction of the usual price. Tanya told me she didn't like my shoes either! (Which were brand new New Balance sneakers in dark colors. Sorry, maybe not the style there, but if we're going to be walking 10 miles every day and be in 100 degree weather, I cannot even imagine wearing leather shoes. No wonder everybody walking the street is frowning; Their feet are in some serious pain!). Anyway, Tanya wanted me to buy some sandals (I had no idea these would be accepted fashion in Kiev so I left all of mine at home). I told her I had 3 pairs at home already and didn't need any more. Then we reached the jeans section and she said that she didn't like my pants (which were brand new Levi's). I asked her if she really expected that I would have access to the correct Ukrainian fashions when shopping for clothes in the USA? I then bit my tongue and fought the urge to tell her that I didn't like HER clothes that she wore every day. Her shirt was rather worn and old looking and she has the nerve to pick apart MY NEW shirts, MY NEW pants, MY NEW shoes??

Then we reached a jacket section which was very impressive. First of all, the selection was 10 times greater than anything, anywhere in the USA. And the jackets were the most beautiful I had ever seen. Every type of fur was here; Sable, Mink, Fox, Rabbit, Beaver, Otter, etc. Just gorgeous stuff and some of the really nice coats were priced in the thousands (in Dollars!). Wow, I could vizualize some beautiful blonde Slavic woman standing out in the snow in one of these fur coats with a matching fur hat -Yummy! Tanya decided she would rather have a new jacket than a new purse and asked if that was OK. I said go ahead. She tried on probably 50 or 75 jackets, some multiple times each. It took several hours! Finally she decided on a black leather one and it was about $200 which I thought was reasonable for a birthday/thankyou present. Then she threw it into the bag and moved on, no 'Thankyou' was said. Should I ask her why it is OK to kill animals for leather but not for meat? Naaaaa.

We went to a Ukrainian style restaurant inside of this shopping area and again, she gave me a hard time for adding a bottle of water to my tray (you need to wait 1 hour before drinking). After taking one bite of her food, she looked disgusted and put down her fork and said 'its not fresh, they made it yesterday'. I couldn't tell if this was true or not and I ate all of my food. On the metro ride back to the apartment, we passed over the river and beaches again and I wanted to be down there playing amongst those people. I asked Tanya to bring a blanket for tomorrow so that we can go to the beach. She told me that the river is the toilet for all of Kiev and there will be pieces of shit floating in the water if we go there. Come on man, thousands of people are down there wearing shorts and having more fun than us. She told me that the water can go up a man's penis and make him sick. Also that it would do the same in the female body. I said don't worry, we will stay out of the water. We can take some lunch and go sit on the blanket under a tree and have a nice time. She said it will be like playing in the toilet. AS if playing in the metro is so much more fun!

It had been a very hot day that day and the apartment didn't cool enough for sleeping until well past midnight. So I layed in bed, wide awake for a long time, sweating, sticking to the sheets, thinking about all that had transpired during the past few days. I also listened to the various people coming and going down below and thought about how amazing it was to be sleeping in a residential building somewhere in the middle of Ukraine! If only I were fluent in the language, I would go downstairs and talk to everyone! Anyway, a decision was made: We are going to the beach tomorrow. (In my whole life, there has never been a bad day at the beach with a girl so why should it be any different here?) If Tanya and I do not have a fun time together at the beach tomorrow, then I will tell her goodbye!



Day 4
She arrived in the apartment and found something to scold me about almost immediately! Remember, the apartment is one room with only a bed. Thus, my suitcase could only be on the floor. The lid was open and leaning against the wall. All of the clothes in the suitcase were clean, folded and stacked neatly. There was 1 pair of jeans from yesterday that had been thoroughly sweated in so they couldn't be mixed with the clean clothes and I layed them on the floor next to the suitcase awaiting the next laundry day. Tanya made a beeline to these jeans and picked them up and started asking me if I was a pig for leaving my clothes all over the floor! I gave her the look of death and she backed off a little. The good news was that she did actually bring a blanket so she must have decided to go along with the beach idea.

After a while, we departed for the city and spent some time checking out some underground shopping near TGI FRidays. Ahhhhhh! Air conditioning. I liked this type of shopping. Then we ate lunch at the SAME cafeteria again and then she told me to take a picture of something but I didn't have the camera. That set her off. "Why you didn't bring camera? You don't think there is anything interesting in Kiev to take pictures? Nothing interesting for you here!" blah, blah, blah. First of all, Ms. Tour Guide, YOU are the one who has been telling me only bad things about your town. I actually kind of like the place. Then I asked her if I came to Kiev to take pictures or if I came to Kiev to meet with her and she shut up for a while. Not sure if the point had been made or if she was ignoring me out of anger because she did seem to be walking a few paces faster than me. Then she wanted to go to McDonalds for ice cream so we went there. After she finished her ice cream, she put her head on the table and said her back hurts again. I suggested we go back to the apartment if she's not feeling well. She says no, she doesn't want to go there but she would go to my apartment in my country. I said 'Really?' kind of shocked and in disbelief that she would say that after she had been scolding me all day. Well, this made her angry again and she kept her head on the table and ignored me. I'm starting to think I'm dating a 12 year old child! I began mentally preparing my 'goodbye' statement when she stood up, took my hand, and said 'we go to beach now'.

As we were walking along the riverfront, toward the walkover bridge, she was again doing the angry walk - 6 paces ahead of me and just a bit faster than me. She was pointing out every piece of litter along the way. "Look! Dirty! Too much garbage. Beer bottles. Broken glass. Is this what you like?". I could see the arch at the top of the hill and knew the Kiev Connections office was just a short distance from there. I tried to turn her around saying her back hurts, we should return home. But her angry walk and talk continued. Crossing the walkover bridge, some trash cans were overflowing and she stopped to show me all of that "Look! You didn't trust me that it is a dirty place here! Now you see all of this garbage? You like it?". I said relax, its not that bad, go visit Kingston, Jamaica sometime! We continued over the bridge and she said "See the water? It is brown. Very dirty. Can you smell it? I told you Ukraine people very dirty. You don't believe me". I didn't notice any bad smells. Finally we reached the other side and made our way down the sandy beach. It was really not that bad. Kind of nice to have some green areas right in the middle of such a huge city. After walking a while, we came to a quiet spot and I spread the blanket out and we layed down. Tanya soon jumped up screaming. As luck would have it, there was a fresh dog turd a mere 2 inches from her side of the blanket. I quickly gathered up the blanket and moved it far away to a location I thoroughly checked for turds before placing the blanket. Just a natural reaction, I guess, because there was certainly no reason to try and make things right anymore.

An hour passed, then maybe two. Not a lot of conversation was going on. I looked across the river and could still see the arch. My gateway to the Kiev Connections office. I wanted to be over there! I looked at my watch and it was 16:00. Kiev Connections is open until 20:00 so there is still time to go there today if I get rid of her right now......I was getting restless and suggested that we leave. That way, I could just say goodbye at the metro station and send her home while I stayed in the city. Unfortunately she didn't want to leave. She told me that I wanted the beach and now I'm going to have it all day. I said yes, but I didn't want it with an angry woman! No comment from her. I suggested again that we leave but no response from her. So I asked her how she felt about our meeting. She pretended not to speak English anymore. Everything I asked, she just said "I don't understand". I was using words that I had heard her use before so I knew she was understanding and just playing dumb. There was no choice but to tell her I thought it was not going well and that I would be heading over to the offices of Kiev Connections to arrange meetings with other women. Well, she understood that and it made her jump up and be ready to leave the beach immediately!

Now I would have to endure another 'angry walk' across the walkover bridge (It would have been better if she didn't know until we got to the metro station). She said she didn't understand me. Why would I say I want to go to the beach and then not be happy after she took me there and gave me exactly what I had asked for? I said I wanted to go to the beach with a HAPPY woman, not an angry woman. Then she told me to shut up and we had a silent walk the rest of the way. We reached independence square and I expected her to go into the metro but she stayed with me. I told her I could find the office on my own but she said she was going to make sure. Oh good lord, would this long silent walk ever end? We reached the office and she came inside with me. She sat down and started talking with all of the girls there and I could tell it was all about how much of an asshole I was, how I had said I wanted the beach and she took me there and then I didn't want it anymore, etc. etc. etc. One of the beautiful women who works there started a computer for me and told me to make a list of women I wanted to meet. I tried to browse the listings but Tanya was still sitting right behind me blabbering away angrily about how bad I was. I dumped her more than an hour ago, I shouldn't still have to listen to this! I told one of the girls I was going out for some food and would return later. I took a 2 hour dinner break and when I went back, I passed Tanya in the hallway. She had spent 2 hours there. I said thanks for everything and I'm sorry it didn't work out. She completely ignored me and tried to walk through me as if I wasn't even there! Yep, right decision was made, don't want an angry wife like her for the next 40 years!!

[GoodOlBoy]

Hello Bill12920. Wow guy, you are really a patient man (which you will need when you find the right RW/UW). I am glad you had a backup plan, but I have this feeling we haven't heard the last of Tanya? Maybe she will become your personal stalker and follow you around Kiev? Please tell us more. Great report so far.

[BillyB]

Bill,
  Entertaining trip report. Made me laugh that some people can be so goofy but it's true that some RW are like that. I don't know why you tried so hard to make things work out with her? She should have been shown the door the first day. Hope the rest of your trip went better. Looking forward to reading it.

[ScottinCrimea]

You have the patience of a saint!  Definitely a necessary attribute for a Russian Wife, but you are above and beyond!

[msmoby_ru]

You have the patience of a saint!  Definitely a necessary attribute for a Russian Wife, but you are above and beyond!

I wish to point out that we need the "patience of a Saint" because of some small language/ cultural differences rather the  personality of the FSU woman..

Naturally, *they* need to be patient with us!!

This has to be the best trip report I've ever read..it has everything..


Bill, Thanks, again, for sharing it... I hope day 5 might bring you a "Tanya free" day..

[steve057]

I'm feeling your pain Bill  Nothing like flying to the other side of the world and meeting a nutcase  I can't wait to hear the "rest of the story"! Great report

[tim 360]

Bill, your patience and good humor is incredible and thanks for your report.  I doubt Tanya will ever find a husband who would put up with her.

[HiTech]

Excellent TR: Brought back many memories of one woman I dated in the FSU.

[corp]

Bill, you make me realize how many nice ladies I met, ...really!

I do understand your effort to "make it work" on your first lady.
On my first trip, I arrived in Kiev to a lady who I knew pretty quick was not my match. Even so I stayed with her 2 weeks. (I was not aware of any agencies).

I thought She was a little bit of a grouch... your date made mind look like and angel.

Looking forward to hearing more of your story.

[msmoby_ru]

Seems that Tanya put something in Bill's beer on the last date on the beach...are you still alive ?

[deccie]

I am laughing so much about the TR so far.

Only because it reminded me so much of my own first trip to Russia.
So many things... "your drinking too much" was one.

[CaptB]

Bill,

Good trip report! Your lady very much reminded me of an RW I visited in Moscow who was a doctor working at a pharmaceutical company. I visited twice. The first trip (for two weeks).......she was on "good behavior". There was a "moment" or two......but mostly we "appeared" to enjoy each others' company. I that particular trip I attended my friend jb's wedding (a member of this board).......a very good time indeed. The second trip was a different! My visit was to last three weeks. We were staying in St. Pete for a week........then on to Samara for 1 1/2 weeks ........then back to Moscow for the remainder of my stay. Within a day or two (in St. Pete)......things change. I believe "acting" just wore her out and the real "Doc-instein" reared her ugly head. What set it off was my asking her to pronounce names on street signs for me.....so I could find my way (if and when I were alone). She became testy.....stating "I am your guide.....you do not need to know how to read signs". "I will decide where we go....and how.....etc etc." "I, I, I".....became her them song. By day four I knew there would be no chance for a relationship. In all trips to Russia.....I always had a "mental" back-up plan that could be put into motion with small amount of time at an internet cafe.....and a phone call or. Problem was.....I was in dire need of a real vacation. My first reaction was to tell her to enjoy her time (alone) in St. Pete.....the appartment and her return ticket were already paid for. I thought I would go to Yoskar-Ola for a week (MAKSIM's very reputable agency....was also very reasonably priced at the time). I would then go on to Samara for a week. I decided to continue my visit in St. Pete.....and I really wanted to vist Samara.........and "try" to enjoy my vacation. I toughed-it-out.......and continued on.

I am now glad I continued with my plans. I mat many great people.....including the Doc's relatives (nice Mother, wild aunt, brother and girlfriend.....others). Instead of going to Yoshkar-Ola and Samara (on my own).....I had a nice time on my vacation....and ultimately.....ended-up in Stavropol....where I met my lovely wife.

Bill......hopefully your next installment will be very soon!


Capt B

[bill12920]

Bill,

Good trip report! Your lady very much reminded me of an RW I visited in Moscow who was a doctor working at a pharmaceutical company. I visited twice. The first trip (for two weeks).......she was on "good behavior". There was a "moment" or two......but mostly we "appeared" to enjoy each others' company. I that particular trip I attended my friend jb's wedding (a member of this board).......a very good time indeed. The second trip was a different! My visit was to last three weeks. We were staying in St. Pete for a week........then on to Samara for 1 1/2 weeks ........then back to Moscow for the remainder of my stay. Within a day or two (in St. Pete)......things change. I believe "acting" just wore her out and the real "Doc-instein" reared her ugly head. What set it off was my asking her to pronounce names on street signs for me.....so I could find my way (if and when I were alone). She became testy.....stating "I am your guide.....you do not need to know how to read signs". "I will decide where we go....and how.....etc etc."

Yeah, it was exactly like that: "You only need to know what I tell you and I'm offended if you ask any questions because it can only mean that you don't trust me". Limited mental capacity in that woman for sure. Oh well, her loss; Life here in sunny FLORIDA is pretty darn good!!

[bill12920]

There isn't much more to tell really......

I never saw Tanya again and spent the remainder of my days going on dates with different women from Kiev Connections. The first was Elen and what a disaster she is. We arranged to meet and she told me I would be able to recognize her because she was wearing a $2000 Loius Vitton jacket (as if I would know what that looks like!). We met and she wanted to go for some champagne so we went to one of the cafe's on Kreschatyk. She looks at my watch (which I thought was a very cool Swiss Army mechanical GMT watch) and she pushes it aside and tells me that her ex-boyfriend wore a Patek Phillipe. Was I supposed to be impressed or something? Then she asks me how much money I make per year. I told her it wasn't polite to ask such a question. She asks what kind of house I live in and if there is a mortgage. I said it was a modest house but without mortgage. She said she wants a huge house. She asked what kind of car I drive. This is where it really gets good. I have a Porsche 911 and a Toyota pickup truck but I only told her about the Toyota. She was clearly disturbed by this. Then I noticed a similar truck parked out on the sidewalk and pointed it out to her. "Yep, thats what I drive right over there, baby"! She said loudly "You cannot take a woman out in that"!. I said the woman I want to meet is just happy to sit near me and the type of car we're sitting in isn't so important. She told me such a woman doesn't exist and I would be divorced in 3 years after the woman got her green card and found a richer man. Then she told me her ex-Patek Phillipe wearing boyfriend also had an airplane. I told her she should call him and try to win him back!

Then she told me that after she gets married, she won't work anymore and that she also doesn't clean house or cook. I asked how she planned to spend her days. She said she would be "creative, paint and draw, go to the gym, go shopping" and that she "could inspire her husband to make even more money". I told her she was every man's dream! A woman who won't cook, won't clean, won't work, will spend all the money and demand more, probably won't give him sex except when she wants it. And that a man cannot make sufficient money to keep a woman like her happy because she will always demand more! She sat back and paused for a minute with an evil grin on her face because she knew I was speaking the truth. Then she told me that 2 million a year would be a happy salary. WOW, did I ever want this date to end!! I suggested we leave but she said she wanted to drink the bottle of champagne first! Good lord, there was still 3/4 of the bottle remaining. I couldn't do it. I stood up, left some cash on the table to pay for the champagne and said "Really nice to meet you, I'm ready to leave now" and got the hell out of there! As I was walking away, it dawned on me that this was the worst woman I had ever met in my entire life. Worse than Tatyana! Maybe a lot of American women have similar thoughts but NEVER has one vocalized such thoughts to me, EVER! And as grouchy as Tatyana was, at least she was frugal and non-materialistic.

Then I met Galina. A very pleasant woman and the first one with a positive attitude. And a sharp dresser too. High heels, low-cut top, etc. Sadly, we seemed to run out of conversation after about an hour and I really didn't know what to say to her after that. Back up a minute to when we took a taxi to our lunch destination.....she asked me if we should hold the taxi there or just get another one later. How the hell should I know? But I assumed it would be expensive to pay him to stay there so I said let him go. After lunch, she called him but he was busy and she couldn't find another taxi. She said something sarcastic about it being my decision to let the taxi go! After my first 2 experiences, one tiny grain of bitchiness is all I need to see, honey!

Then I met Natalia who was EXTREMELY fluent in English, had a good career, had been to the USA on business, etc. She was the same age as me and looked pretty good in pictures on Kiev Connections. In real life she looked about 5 years older so I have to assume the pics on KC are not current. We had a great flowing conversation over dinner, never ran out of topics, seemed to have a lot in common, etc. Man, the prices of the dinners in the nicer restaurants over there is outrageous!! Plan to drop $100-$200 for a small meal. Over here, 2 can eat at Bonefish Grill for example and be totally stuffed with quality food, have wine, for maybe $80 so it was definite sticker shock but I kept this to myself. I was attracted to this woman mentally although not really physically. She seemed much older than me. Life is probably harder over there. But hey, George Bush Senior always appeared to have married his mother and they had a successful marriage. So I wanted to see her again and give her time to grow on me. We exchanged numbers but she never took my call and never called me. After reading other posts here, I think she may be just using the service to have a nice dinner once a week.

Then I met a real beauty with a 16 year old son. Unfortunately I cannot imagine any possible way to be successful in uprooting not 1, but TWO people, bringing them here, etc. A younger child is probably easier to transition than an older child...And if they're 16, then you've got to buy potentially 2 cars and practically start the college tuition right away. Maybe if I was a multi-millionaire and retired with enough free time on my hands to be with them and assist them every day.

None of the women really lit my fire enough to make me want to pursue. Finally Sunday came and the weather turned dreary (and cooler by 50 degrees).  Under a gray sky and light rain, Kiev wasn't so beautiful anymore and I was ready to leave. I walked around the town taking some final pictures and then left empty handed, empty hearted, with no plans to return and no real desire to begin a new letter writing campaign. If I did decide to return someday, I would try a smaller city......

Thanks to everyone for all of the positive comments! Maybe you'll hear from me again next year.....

[mies]

Locking you in the apartment and saying it's impossible to have another set of keys done - is the craziest and most absurd thing i have ever heard in my life! Good for you that you stuck to your American freedoms.  Insecurity and fear of loosing you or making a mistake is written all over her behavior. Hope this story will continue with some new and good changes...

indeed :-D the story about the first woman is hilarious ))))))))

Bill, you've missed sooooo many wonderful things and experiences in Kyiv.... it was absolutely a bad luck wasting your time with this woman....

[Ooooops]

Then she told me her ex-Patek Phillipe wearing boyfriend also had an airplane. I told her she should call him and try to win him back!

 

Can you read Russian? 

http://newwoman.ru/zamuzh104_roman.html

[Sculpto]

Bill...

I am sorry your experiences were so sour.  Please contact me by PM as I would like to make some suggestions to you about how to find someone more suited to you.  I have been down the road you were on.. instead of a psycho I got a scammer but I learned a lot in the 15 months since that happened and have discovered some great ways to find ladies who are not polluted by the agency process.

[Stirlitz]

Wow…

That woman is seriously ill though and Bill has a patience of Jesus

Point taken. But look at any web sites offering apartments and they start at $80 and go up from there. So I thought $60 was a good deal.

Yep… $60 a night doesn’t sound bad at all for Kiev (especially in the summer). However I would rather pay more but have a nice apartment with AC, in a nice location, with all the furniture and things in it…

Sorry to have to tell you this pal but you have violated some of the “Ten Commandments” prominently spelled out on this very website.

First of all, do NOT under any circumstances travel 7000 miles just to meet only one woman

I would say, avoid letting the woman manage your arrangements (apartments, etc). All she has to do is to turn up on a date with you and let you see her home after that. Well, basically it should not be much different from dating where you live.

Let me remind you that $660 is over twice the average MONTHLY salary in Ukraine. Whereas you have wasted your time and money on this trip she has probably made the most money in the least time in her whole life out of you while giving you a heck of a time.

Who is that pathetic idiot who gave you this figure? Just come to Ukraine once if you haven't and see all the modern cars. Do you think many people could be ale to afford them with this kind of AVERAGE salary? Never mind you will see fewer really expensive cars in European capitals than you would in Kiev. Just one point…

My mother-in-law worked in a branch bank. Her salary was UAH2,500 (like $500 a few months ago). The branch bank manager's salary was… like UAH32,500. Thirty two thousand. There were about ten people working there. Cashiers' salary was less than hers (probably like UAH1,000); but if you can do sums, you will see that the average salary for that office was much higher than $330.

If the average salary above is the average one for like 75% of the population, or the average salary in a remote mountain area of Ukraine, the figure may not be too far from the truth. However, speaking about the real average salary in Ukraine period as being less than is required to pay normal bills and buy food is absolutely ridiculous and laughable.

However, people in this board seem to remember every piece of rubbish they can find especially if it is uttered a scientist (of a kind). Duh.

[Misha]

My mother-in-law worked in a branch bank. Her salary was UAH2,500 (like $500 a few months ago). The branch bank manager's salary was… like UAH32,500. Thirty two thousand. There were about ten people working there. Cashiers' salary was less than hers (probably like UAH1,000); but if you can do sums, you will see that the average salary for that office was much higher than $330.

Don't they expect one-third of banks to close or be merged with other banks in the coming months in the Ukraine? Perhaps banks are not a good example of a "typical" salary in Ukraine.