Kiev disaster - Sept. 4-Sept. 15, 2008

[OlgaH]

According to the Ukraine Committee of Statistics the average salary in October 2008 was 1917 grivnas that is one grivna more than in September 2008.

Ternopolskaya oblast - 1 419 grivnas
In Crimea - 1 717 grivnas

The average salary in Financial occupations was 3 702 grivnas
The lowest salary was recoded in Fishery - 881 grivnas and Agriculture - 1 064 grivnas
The average salary in Health care and Social spheres was 1 140 grivnas 
http://news.siteua.org/%D0%AD%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B8_%D0%A4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%8B/31848/%D0%A1%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BD%D1%8F%D1%8F_%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0_%D1%83%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%8C_%D0%BD%D0%B0_1_%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BD%D1%83

 

[Sculpto]

Base salary + fees charged to clinets for better service + what other forms of corruption can give middle managers a decent take home.  People also do not have to pay mortgages.  I suspect health insurance, car insurance, property tax and a lot of other factors that we deal with do not exist.  At the end of hte day 500-1000 a month might actually be a lot more money than it sounds like on the surface.

I know when I lived in Mexico it took a long time to understand that even though people made a lot less money than in the USA they could still maintain a pretty decent standard of living because they did not have to pay mortgages, car payments, health insurance, property taxes and so on.  

[Stirlitz]

There are lies.

There are blatant lies.

And then there is statistics…

Whatever that committee says I know that in the cash economy where so many people receive enveloped salaries (because of stupid taxes), the average salaries don’t make any sense. Even less than the average temperature in a hospital being the key indicator of the patients being sicker or healthier.

I lived for $300 a month several times. No, I didn’t; I just survived.

[ScottinCrimea]

Base salary + fees charged to clinets for better service + what other forms of corruption can give middle managers a decent take home.  People also do not have to pay mortgages.  I suspect health insurance, car insurance, property tax and a lot of other factors that we deal with do not exist.  At the end of hte day 500-1000 a month might actually be a lot more money than it sounds like on the surface.

I know when I lived in Mexico it took a long time to understand that even though people made a lot less money than in the USA they could still maintain a pretty decent standard of living because they did not have to pay mortgages, car payments, health insurance, property taxes and so on.  

You learned from living in Mexico what a lot here don't seem to understand.  They look at the "average' monthly income in Ukraine and can't imagine surviving on that amount because of all the bills they incur that are considered normal in the US.  Most can't imagine having no mortgage, no car, no insurance, free medical care, no income taxes, cheap utilities, cable TV $6 a month instead of over $100, cheaper phone service, no credit card debt.....the list goes on.  The basics will run you less than $500 a month, the rest is disposable income.  Don't look at this number as gospel, but you get the idea.

Then add to that what Stirlitz notes.  Instead of an income tax, they have an employment tax, so the salary listed by employers for tax and statistical purposes only shows the minimum they can get away with reporting with the rest paid under the table.

[Chicagoguy]

Please send me ASAP Elen's contact information.     

Then hit me over the head with the clue bat !

Great story. At least you tried. This is not an easy journey.

[ukguy1977]

Hello mate.

I'm 31 and have been to the Ukraine now on 8 occasions. In that time I have met many women and visited many different cities. Fortuantely, on my last trip I think I have finally met the one for me and will be going back to see her again in January.

You seem like an honest guy so if you want some free help and advice then I will be happy help you if you send me a PM. If however you don't want to try again then best of luck.

[AramisLux]

Bill12920:

thanks for writing such a great TR. it was very entertaining reading. we have got some really good writers using this forum. i loved all of the little insights that you provided into what the culture of Ukraine is like through the eyes of a WM.

i found your descriptions of Tatyana's behavior very interesting. i have dated some women who are very much like her. i wanted to suggest something to you that might help explain what she may have been doing, what her motivations might have been. one reason for putting my theories on this out to the readers of this forum is to possibly give some insight into what Tatyana and her type of person are really all about. please take this FWIW.

i noticed that it was shortly after you finally lost your patients with her and "put her in her place" in a manner of speaking that Tatyana initiated positive contact with you by laying on top of you and kissing you. i think that she was working very hard at seeing if she could get you to display your anger and put her in her place. she wanted you to display your anger from the first few minutes you were together. most of her behavior had this reaction as its primary objective from the start. in her sick way, she gained respect for you.

based on your report, we all know that she is [1] a control freak; [2] very insecure to the point of being absolutely pathological; and [3], responds with kind affection and kisses only after you took total control of the situation and "dominated" her (at least in her own mind).

this kind of female knows deep down that she is difficult and out of control. it is for this reason that she knows she must be controlled by someone else. this is why your dominance is actually something that she not only craves but must feed upon. i think that this type of person usually relates to "their world" through abuse because abuse is how her psychology has been formed. for her, perceived rejection is nothing more than a form of abuse which she MUST confront with abuse of her own. for example, when she walk directly into you as if you were not there (at the agency).

i don't offer these ideas as a form of advice. it is simply offered for your consideration. perhaps in the future, if you again have similar experiences, you will be forearmed with this additional information.

thanks again for the fine report.