General thoughts about the process of finding RW and this website

[Taz]

I have noticed that the quality of the posts here have typically declined. It seems to a great extent the RW/UW thing has started to wane. Many agencies aren’t around anymore and many remaining ones have jacked their prices so high, many men wouldn’t consider using them. Not many guys are going to pay $50 for a meeting but that seems to be the going price in Kiev.

I never would pay that amount, not because I can’t but because I have no desire to risk $50 on a chance to meet a pro-dater. Quite often the agencies put pressure on the women to meet men they aren’t interested in so that further reduces my odds of a having a good meeting.

It has become more difficult to find good, honest agencies. Now factor in the price of meetings and you can easily spend $300/day for meetings and a translator. Factor in your hotel/apartment and you can easily drop $450/day in the big cities or more.

Based on these costs, I am far more inclined to do the dating websites in the FSU. Flirt has been very good for me especially in Ukraine. In Russia dating.ru is pretty good but definitely weaker in the Ukraine than Russia. In the middle is loveplanet.ru.

If you do to any of these site the interface in Russian. You would be ahead though to go this route than many others.  You have the chance to see many women from the agency sites and you will see what they are REALLY looking for, not what the agency says. They will typically be more honest about any age gap they will accept than what the agency might put in their profile.

Again I will recommend learning some of the language. Even learning a few words can help search since you will have to do it in Russian. I think you would still come out ahead though even if you had to pay a translator such as Anastassia Ash to help you sort through some of the profiles. You can use the machine translation sites such http://www.online-translator.com/Default.aspx?prmtlang=en (in English or click the flag to change to your language at the top right) and go through some of the profiles yourself. After a while you’ll get the hang of it.

I would highly suggest though that you use a real translator such as Anastassia or someone else to write your intro letter. You only have one shot to make a first impression! Furthermore I’d suggest customizing it slightly to each woman’s profile assuming she actually wrote something or had an interesting photo. You’ll also need a translator’s help to like setup the profile in the first place to answer her ad and to place your own there.

This brings me to my final point about this website in general. The quality of the posts has definitely diminished. I have spoken with other people who are members who rarely post now. They are tired of being attacked, criticized, pounced on, etc. People can have differing opinions yet still treat others in a respectful way when disagreeing. Ms_moby is an example typically of a person who can’t stick straight to the facts and has a marked tendency to almost make things personal or lead with some sort of attack. I quickly tire of people like this. My life is pretty busy. I have a successful career and a family to take care of as well as a woman I am interested in.

So every time I come here and have to deal with the crap, I always ask myself why I came here in the first place. I am not saying there should be disagreement but it can be handled in a much more adult manner. My time is too valuable to get involved in some pissing contest or dealing with monster egos. I am well educated, successful, etc. and I check my ego at the door when coming here in order to help other people here. There is almost nothing I personally get of value from this website other than occasional some satisfaction in helping others. Dealing with the less pleasant people here diminishes my desire to participate. I know of 5 other forum members that I have contact with off-list that have expressed the exact same concerns but don’t feel like wasting their time to post their sentiments.

I used to post frequently but I don’t see much point in doing it any more. If people want to attack each other I’ll choose to find another sandbox to play in. People really need to grow up here and not attack each and every person you might disagree with. I can easily take off the gloves so to speak and attack in kind but what is the point? It is like having a battle of wits with an unarmed person. What does gain is it at the end of the day? It just drives off more people from an already dying website/business. Maybe it would be better to hasten its demise.

The only bright side in the RW/UW business model is that the current economic crisis in many of the FSU countries is pretty severe. This could result in an increase in the number of women again looking for foreign men. The Russian stock market has lost 70% this year alone. While many people are not stockholders the layoffs have begun. Many firms are going bankrupt and the governments have stepped in to prop up many banks and limit cash withdrawals to prevent a run on the solvency of the banks and banking systems in general.

Of course there are likely to be even more scammers as somebody has to feed the women…

[Admin]

This brings me to my final point about this website in general. The quality of the posts has definitely diminished. I have spoken with other people who are members who rarely post now. They are tired of being attacked, criticized, pounced on, etc. People can have differing opinions yet still treat others in a respectful way when disagreeing. Ms_moby is an example typically of a person who can’t stick straight to the facts and has a marked tendency to almost make things personal or lead with some sort of attack. I quickly tire of people like this. My life is pretty busy. I have a successful career and a family to take care of as well as a woman I am interested in.

So every time I come here and have to deal with the crap, I always ask myself why I came here in the first place. I am not saying there should be disagreement but it can be handled in a much more adult manner. My time is too valuable to get involved in some pissing contest or dealing with monster egos. I am well educated, successful, etc. and I check my ego at the door when coming here in order to help other people here. There is almost nothing I personally get of value from this website other than occasional some satisfaction in helping others. Dealing with the less pleasant people here diminishes my desire to participate. I know of 5 other forum members that I have contact with off-list that have expressed the exact same concerns but don’t feel like wasting their time to post their sentiments.

I used to post frequently but I don’t see much point in doing it any more. If people want to attack each other I’ll choose to find another sandbox to play in. People really need to grow up here and not attack each and every person you might disagree with. I can easily take off the gloves so to speak and attack in kind but what is the point? It is like having a battle of wits with an unarmed person. What does gain is it at the end of the day? It just drives off more people from an already dying website/business. Maybe it would be better to hasten its demise.

Taz,

Since it is difficult, if not impossible, to measure the "quality" of the posts at an internet forum like RWD, I am not sure how one might conclude an overall trend of diminution is occurring. Having said that, some of the old-timers are not posting as much, and that may give a sense of dilution - along with seeing contentious posts with some regularity.

As I think about our history, I find this particular period pretty docile in comparison to some episodes of the past (knock wood).

We do continue to have the members who are, it seems, bent on nothing other than creating rancor. We will always have some of this in our midst. We have some tools at our disposal to deal with such things (the 'ignore' button - for one), and then each of us has the choice to respond to, or ignore, provocations from the rabble-rousers.

RWD continues to be not only the largest and most active site dealing with this particular topic area - but we remain committed to providing high-quality information that others may learn from - even when they need to sort through some of the 'noise' to find it.

Soon, we will be releasing several important products that will serve to reinforce my comments.

Hang in there and stick around.

- Dan

[LEGAL]

 The quality of the posts has definitely diminished. I have spoken with other people who are members who rarely post now. They are tired of being attacked, criticized, pounced on, etc. People can have differing opinions yet still treat others in a respectful way when disagreeing. Ms_moby is an example typically of a person who can’t stick straight to the facts and has a marked tendency to almost make things personal or lead with some sort of attack. I quickly tire of people like this. My life is pretty busy. I have a successful career and a family to take care of as well as a woman I am interested in.

So every time I come here and have to deal with the crap, I always ask myself why I came here in the first place. I am not saying there should be disagreement but it can be handled in a much more adult manner. My time is too valuable to get involved in some pissing contest or dealing with monster egos. I am well educated, successful, etc. and I check my ego at the door when coming here in order to help other people here. There is almost nothing I personally get of value from this website other than occasional some satisfaction in helping others. Dealing with the less pleasant people here diminishes my desire to participate. I know of 5 other forum members that I have contact with off-list that have expressed the exact same concerns but don’t feel like wasting their time to post their sentiments.

I used to post frequently but I don’t see much point in doing it any more. If people want to attack each other I’ll choose to find another sandbox to play in. People really need to grow up here and not attack each and every person you might disagree with. I can easily take off the gloves so to speak and attack in kind but what is the point? It is like having a battle of wits with an unarmed person. What does gain is it at the end of the day? It just drives off more people from an already dying website/business. Maybe it would be better to hasten its demise.

As some here know I feel the exact same way. Olga and I also associate with several members off the board do to these very same problems.   Their are some really great members here!  I also know how valuable the friendship and help I received from messages boards when I first started to go to Russia back in 2004, that information stays with me forever.  I also like to pass the baton as it was given to me, like you I don't because of similar attacks both on Olga and myself.  I never would have received this information if it was not for these message boards.  I know how hard Dan and the handful of guys worked to build and make this a great message board. I urge you to stay and others should speak up so we the majority can have a place here @ RWD of peaceful discourse and exchange of information.

[Mir]

Someone wrote this in 1995 when RW/WM relationship was only few years old.


RUSSIAN WOMEN

Do They Make Good Wives?

   There are a number of agencies that will provide almost any
American man with a female in Russia who wants to come to America.
After a few letters and telephone conversations one is usually ready to
bring the Russian lady to America.  If all is OK, one often gets
married within a month or two of the arrival of the lady in America (or
a day or two).  The cost of a round trip ticket (it is necessary to buy
a round trip ticket) varies from about $1200 to $2500.  The agency fee
is in addition to this and can be as high as $5000, but is often as low
as $500.

   The various agencies are the fastest, but also the most
expensive.  There are also simply writing clubs where by you can write
to any number of a list of ladies.  You could also put your own ad in a
Russian Newspaper.  There are American advertising agencies that know
how to do this. If you go to Russia you will be able to find a wife in
a week or two as there are thousands of women who want to come to
America.   So I won't say much more about this end of it, since this
letter is about Russian women.

   I married two Russian women:  We have only had free movement between
Russia and America for about 5 years or so, so having married two
Russian women was quite a trick, and  not something I would do again.

   To determine if Russian women will make good wives the first
thing that one should look at is the Russian culture.  One might think
that any kind of up bringing can be over come.  One often sees people
from the ghettoes doing quite well in life, even when they were in the
ghetto their entire childhood.  However, I don't think this is true of
Russian women.  I believe that they will never over come their Russian
up bringing.  The basic reason for this is simply that they don't want
to over come their up bringing, while those who come from the ghettoes
usually want to change to get the better things in life that they
desire.  The Russian women think that the way they are is absolutely
ideal, and it never occurs to them that there are better ways in life.

   In 1992 I traveled to Russia where I met my first Russian
wife.  I spent several weeks in Moscow and traveled to a number of
other Russian cities.  I was invited to many Russian homes to eat and
to stay the night.  I was able to see the Russian  culture first hand.
They were anxious to show me how they lived.  The Russian people now
love Americans more than any other nationality.  No matter where I went
I was welcome.  In restaurants where there were lines, I was always
taken to the head of the line, if they found out that I was American.
When I had occasion to go to the doctor, I was taken beyond the line to
a private room for treatment (no charge for treatment and medicine).
It was fabulous treatment for an average American who had never been a
celebrity.  I thought that maybe Russian wives might like me the same.

   When I married my Russian wives it had never occurred to me to
look at the differences in our cultures.  Had I looked, I might not
have been so impulsive.  So let us look at the important cultural
differences that will affect a marriage directly.  In Russia it is
unacceptable to show any kind of affection in public.  Lovers do not
hold hands in public.  They do not put their arms around one another.
Mothers and Fathers never hug or kiss their children except maybe on
New Year's night.  But this is not really the problem, the real problem
is that they are taught never to show affection and emotion.

   In Russia there is no such thing as double beds.  Husbands and
wives never sleep together.  Not even one family out of a thousand has
double beds.  All sleep in separate single beds.  Russian women have
never even considered sleeping night after night with a husband.

   You have no idea how deeply rooted these teachings and customs
have become.  Russia is more like another planet than another country.
No other country in the world are people taught to disregard affection
and love like in Russia.  For 80 years the communists controlled
Russia.  No one was safe.  All were taught that they must tattle tale
on one another about anything that was wrong.  A wife could tell on her
husband, if he wasn't doing something right.  Quite often he would just
never come home (he was shot).  To lose a spouse in Russia wasn't the
same as here.  The government paid for everything.  If the husband
never comes home, so what, the wife still gets paid.  Children were
encourage to tattle tale on their parents.  If they said something that
was not acceptable to the KGB, the parent simply didn't come home
(again, they were shot).

   Love in Russia really became extinct.  I know, we say love is a
natural thing and anyone can fall in love.  That may be true,
but in a society that does not recognize love as valuable, one soon
learns to take care of himself and to not get too close to anyone.  One
must be careful not to get to attached to someone, one day he might not
return.

   When the KGB was closed less than 10 years ago, the reporters
were shown into the KGB building.  In one large room in that building
was a list of 10 million Russians that had been shot by the KGB.  These
people were simply listed as "Enemies of the State."  None were given a
trial of any kind.  The person at the local KGB office simply said,
"Shoot this guy," and he was shot.  It wasn't even a hearing.  Someone
tattled on his neighbor for any one of a hundred things and the local
KGB shot him.  The idea of course, was to make the society a better
place, but it didn't work that way.

   So how does this all affect Russian women.  Well they are
trained from birth to not show love and affection.  They know that
showing too much love could even result in being shot.  To love someone
who doesn't come home one evening can break your heart.  Best not to
love much at all.  Russian women often talk about love, but
unfortunately and sadly, they do not know what love is.  They will
certainly never demonstrate their love with kisses and hugs.  They
might for a few days, but never for any period of time.  They don't
even like kisses and hugs.

   I met many Russian women in Russia.  In fact, during my stay
there I constantly had at least two Russian women with me and sometimes
three.  They were easy to meet once they knew I was American.  They
were anxious to please.  They even asked me for sex.  The idea behind
all the attention and sex was that they wanted to come to America.  The
Russian woman that I finally brought back with me did just that.  She
pretended that she just couldn't resist me.  She told me she wanted me
and then went with me to my hotel room.  Others did the same.

   Sex with a Russian woman beyond about the third time is about
like making love to a dead horse.  They don't take part except
to lay still and let it happen.  I had several Russian women tell me
that they lived with their husbands for 10 years without ever kissing
them.  They had the dead horse sex, but they never kissed their
husbands in the process of sex.  You may think that could happen in
isolated cases, but I talked to enough Russian women and saw enough of
them to tell you that it is normal.  Kissing, you see, is showing
affection and love, and that is not part of a Communist State.  Of
course, communism is dead, and the Russians hate communism, but it will
be years before they understand that the fear of love is a communist
thing.

   Russian men are all macho.  They all must be brave.  Showing
love for a woman is a weakness.  They talk love, but they don't show
it.  Many Russian men are so brave (macho) that they don't look both
ways when crossing the street.  Looking isn't macho.  Thus many get
killed by cars.  Of course, the men in the cars are macho too, thus
they pretend they don't see the people on foot.  Macho for men is the
thing in Russia.  Macho sex is to take the woman by the hand, push her
on the bed, and make love to her, and then go back out and drink
another drink.  Women in Russia expect it.

   Russian women think it is normal to not show love.  Thus you
will not be able to change them.  They don't want to change.  They
want to remain the same.  They know that kissing and hugs and other
demonstrations of love are dangerous things.  Of course, they will
demonstrate affection at first.  They even do that in Russia in
courtship, to a small extent, but when the one week honey moon is over,
don't expect kisses or hugs.  As far as sex is concerned, they like it,
and they want it.  You are expected to climb on and do your thing as
often as you like, but don't expect them to take part other than to do
what they are told.  If you are like 80% of the American men, that
might be OK, but if you want a woman who shows love and affection
during sex and who sometimes kisses you and even touches you, then
don't try a Russian wife.

   Look at Russia now.  They are killing one another as I write
this letter.  Over 110,000,000 Russians have been killed by
Russians in the last 80 years.  Can you see how a country can be devoid
of love.  That much killing of one's own country men brings about men
and women who show very little and can have very little love.  For 150
years in America we have not killed one another on vast scales like
Russia.  The killing and the communist teaching simply changes the way
one looks at and handles love.

   Russian ladies are almost all very beautiful.  The cold climate
and the wet weather produces beautiful women.  They are 99% all of the
white race.  They are not oriental.  Russians drive on the right side
of the road.  Their light switches turn light on in the up position.
Their school year is the same as ours.  For what ever reason a greater
percentage of their customs follow ours than most other countries in
the world.

   So do you want a Russian woman for a wife?  It depends upon
what you want.  If you want a beautiful woman who is a good
show piece then go for it.  But if you are expecting any gratitude for
your spending money and time then forget it.  They believe that their
husbands owe it all to them.  The state gave them their money, it
didn't come from their husbands.  So they expected the husband to do
all those other things.  They will expect you to do everything and buy
them everything and they will seldom, if ever say thanks.  They never
say please, or thanks.  It makes them feel degraded to do such a
thing.

    You can train them to do say thanks, but never expect a kiss
or a hug when you come home.

   Any Russian woman who was brought up within the borders of
Russia will be the way I have described here.  I am sorry that all that
killing and terrible things took place, and I feel sorry for all those
people who will never know real love or even real affection.  I feel
sorry for all those children who never receive kisses from their
parents, but feeling sorry would not make me marry another Russian
woman.  My life only become tolerable with both of my Russian wives
when I quit trying to create any kind of love.  As long as I furnished
the shelter, food, clothing, TV, and other niceties everything was
fine, but never ask for a kiss.  She will prefer to sleep in a separate
bed like her parents did and like all Russians do.  Russian women will
sleep with you if you insist, but all married people in Russia sleep in
separate beds, and so if you marry a  Russian woman, her parents slept
in sperate beds, so she will prefer separate beds.

   A Russian woman will live with you, will take what you give
her, will never say thanks unless you train her to and will
show little affection, but will demonstrate no affection after the
first two or three weeks.  She will live taking everything you give
only as a friend might, except the friend would show gratitude.  You
can have a very pleasant relationship if you are willing to have only a
friendly relationship and are willing to finance her totally plus you
can have sex, and in her own way she may even love you a little and she
will even tell you so, but she will certainly never demonstrate it.

   As far as my two Russian wives were concerned our sex was
completely unacceptable.  After the first three weeks, it was
expected that when I wanted sex she would just lay their and I would do
all the action.  But although I never had a sexual problem my whole
life, I could not for the life of me just make sex that way.  I
expected at least a few kisses during sex.  When I wouldn't perform
both wives asked me to sleep in another bed as they couldn't sleep with
someone who didn't give them good sex.  When I suggested a marriage
councilor and sexual consultant the first wife flatly refused, and the
second one agreed, but refused to accompany me on the day of the
appointment.  When I brought her literature back from the councilor,
she refused to read it.

   It is extremely unfortunate that sex is so repressed in
Russia.  When I was there many people told me that it was wrong
to have sex when I was not married to a woman.  They explained to me
that any woman that came to my hotel room, even if she were single, was
subject to being arrested and taken to jail.  There are no judges or
juries.  There is only the local police.  If someone calls and says
that you are having sex in a hotel room and are not married the local
police can come arrest you if they wish, and that's what has happened
for the last 80 years.  The police make their own decision on what to
do with you.  So you see, sex has been badly repressed in Russia.  I
assume that the communists were trying to keep the population down, but
what ever the reason it does exist.

   When you try to create a loving home with a Russian woman she
feels that you put her at risk.  She feels threatened.  She feels that
it is wrong.  Somewhere in her subconscious mind she is afraid that to
show you love will bring the wrath of the communists.  She cannot
tolerate it.  The fact that the communists no longer exist means
nothing to her subconscious mind.  She will become angry, upset, and
impossible to live with.  It is very sad that it is this way, but
that's the way it is.  The Russians are beginning to dig their way out
of this situation, but at this time any American man who marries a
Russian woman is probably biting off a great deal more than he can
chew.

   If one did marry a Russian woman he should have her agree to at
least a year of counseling after the marriage.  Russian women are like
alcoholics, they will have to realize that something is wrong before
they can be helped and I doubt that a Russian woman will ever realize
that.  In her mind there is too much at stake.  It's cultures in direct
conflict, yours and hers.

   So now you know.  Good luck.     

[Gator]

Based on these costs, I am far more inclined to do the dating websites in the FSU. Flirt has been very good for me especially in Ukraine. In Russia dating.ru is pretty good but definitely weaker in the Ukraine than Russia. In the middle is loveplanet.ru.

I recall a televised conference where a reporter asked the President of Exxon why Exxon was more successful than other companies in finding oil.  His answer, "We drill more holes."

So in finding RW, I suggest that one pursue several hunting grounds.  The dating websites should not be ignored, nor should one ignore the women listed with reputable agencies.  Write many, talk with them and meet them with an open mind.

They will typically be more honest about any age gap they will accept than what the agency might put in their profile.

Also, send them representative photos of yourself.

The only bright side in the RW/UW business model is that the current economic crisis in many of the FSU countries is pretty severe.

Americans too will be hurting for discretionary funds.  So anyone who travels next year will automatically impress the many RW as being financially stable, an important attribute when meeting RW.

[BC]

Americans too will be hurting for discretionary funds.  So anyone who travels next year will automatically impress the many RW as being financially stable, an important attribute when meeting RW.

An important attribute meeting any woman with long term intentions.

I tend to think that the current situation will present a more level playing field, hopefully leading to more successes although the overall numbers of foreign men going to FSU declines.

Taz,

Stick around.. A good many of the longer term married folks are posting less, even myself.. -but they do hang around.. have to understand that after a while we end up sounding like broken records.. almost being able to cut and paste from the archives..

To the newcomer, I say dig for gold in the archives and FAQ... with over 150.000 posts there really ain't that much new that can be said about a lot of topics.. like engagement rings, prenupts, etc etc.

[msmoby_ru]

The quality of the posts has definitely diminished. I have spoken with other people who are members who rarely post now. They are tired of being attacked, criticized, pounced on, etc. People can have differing opinions yet still treat others in a respectful way when disagreeing. Ms_moby is an example typically of a person who can’t stick straight to the facts and has a marked tendency to almost make things personal or lead with some sort of attack. I quickly tire of people like this. My life is pretty busy. I have a successful career and a family to take care of as well as a woman I am interested in.

So every time I come here and have to deal with the crap, I always ask myself why I came here in the first place. I am not saying there should be disagreement but it can be handled in a much more adult manner. My time is too valuable to get involved in some pissing contest or dealing with monster egos. I am well educated, successful, etc. and I check my ego at the door when coming here in order to help other people here. There is almost nothing I personally get of value from this website other than occasional some satisfaction in helping others. Dealing with the less pleasant people here diminishes my desire to participate. I know of 5 other forum members that I have contact with off-list that have expressed the exact same concerns but don’t feel like wasting their time to post their sentiments.

I used to post frequently but I don’t see much point in doing it any more. If people want to attack each other I’ll choose to find another sandbox to play in. People really need to grow up here and not attack each and every person you might disagree with. I can easily take off the gloves so to speak and attack in kind but what is the point? It is like having a battle of wits with an unarmed person. What does gain is it at the end of the day? It just drives off more people from an already dying website/business. Maybe it would be better to hasten its demise.

The only bright side in the RW/UW business model is that the current economic crisis in many of the FSU countries is pretty severe. This could result in an increase in the number of women again looking for foreign men. The Russian stock market has lost 70% this year alone. While many people are not stockholders the layoffs have begun. Many firms are going bankrupt and the governments have stepped in to prop up many banks and limit cash withdrawals to prevent a run on the solvency of the banks and banking systems in general.

Of course there are likely to be even more scammers as somebody has to feed the women…

Seeing as you mentioned me personally, I'm sure you would expect a response.

Taz, you are a guy who has posted TRs that have involved using agencies on WMVM trips and I've been telling anyone who bothered to read that they weren't the best route to find a good wife... you've just realised that, now.


I guess my days or even minutes here are numbered because I speak my mind. It's not my board and some people don't like it when I take a differing viewpoint. 

You might like to point out where I've posted a "fact" that was wrong.. if I was I'll admit it...  !

Hey, if you all shout loud enough you can get me "removed"

 

[BC]

I guess my days or even minutes here are numbered because I speak my mind. It's not my board and some people don't like it when I take a differing viewpoint. 

You might like to point out where I've posted a "fact" that was wrong.. if I was I'll admit it...  !

Hey, if you all shout loud enough you can get me "removed"

That's your agenda maybe?

Quite honestly I think it may even be your purpose.

Something's beginning to reek.

[GoodOlBoy]

Hello everybody. I just joined this forum after being active in another forum for 2 years. I have to say, after starting to read this thread it really comes across as depressing. I don't know who has offended this man but obviously all of us have something important to contribute to this forum. If experienced people start to bail out, there will be no "good" advice for the newbies. Maybe we should all listen seriously to what this man is saying. Just my 2 cents.  Rick

[msmoby_ru]

That's your agenda maybe?

Quite honestly I think it may even be your purpose.

Something's beginning to reek.

I thought you had me on "ignore"..

BC, I've seen members here banned and they're soon forgotten about.. I'm not trying to be a "Martyr" to any cause... Getting myself banned means I won't be able to comment on "daft" advice from folk who aren't even married to a FSUW or I suspect aren't interested in marriage - if you get my drift...

There's no agenda ...

[Admin]

I thought you had me on "ignore"..

BC, I've seen members here banned and they're soon forgotten about.. I'm not trying to be a "Martyr" to any cause... Getting myself banned means I won't be able to comment on "daft" advice from folk who aren't even married to a FSUW or I suspect aren't interested in marriage - if you get my drift...

There's no agenda ...

Mark,

EVERYONE has an agenda. The only question is whether they intend to be a productive contributing member of our community at RWD, or not.

RWD has, in point of fact, banned VERY few people - and only those who repeatedly demonstrated their agenda was at cross-purposes with RWD's. It is no wonder they are soon forgotten - they were never 'here' to begin with.

- Dan

[Taz]

Just a few clarifications. I was married to a Russian women for several years. I didn't use an agency to find her. Typically I have avoided them in the past. I have found the best way for me is to meet through a mutual friend.

That person will know both of characters and will sometimes play as a matchmaker. This is what happened with my Russian ex and myself. Most other women that I met, were almost NEVER through an agency. I am able to speak, read and write Russian pretty well. As a result I don't usually recommend my approach to guys UNLESS they are willing to learn more than a cursory amount of the language. Not many guys are willing to put in the effort to do this.

My past TR's are only part of my story. I've been going to Russia since the mid 70's. The last decade I've gone there more frequently than the 2 decades prior to that. Even though I have been on the boards here actively posting very long, I lurked for quite a while before joining. I had a pretty good idea of many of the people's personalities.

I have been thankful for this forum as it has been useful in meeting some pretty good people in real life. I have met several of the guys from this board. I've traveled with several of them and conversed with a bunch of them. In general I can get along with almost anybody.

I try to post without a "holier than thou" attitude. I've been a lot of different places in the FSU and I realize what works in one area may not in another. Attitudes are different. Some areas are just plan friendlier. Some things no matter what seem to be the same no matter what. Quite often when I met Russian tourists outside the FSU, they are typically people I can't stand to be around. Possibly those same people are better at home.

One consistent theme I seem to encounter is almost every close Russian friend I have tells me to never trust other Russians/Ukrainians. What is it about Russians where they almost loathe their fellow countrymen yet somehow seem to have a strong sense of national pride; something the US doesn't have at least when it comes to the current ruling party?

So as I continue to date RW, I try to refine my approach. Things are not dead with Lana and me but her mom has stuck her nose in our business. Someplace it doesn't belong. As a result it has put undue pressure on our relationship and I want to make sure any woman I marry is the right one for me and that I am the right one for her.

I still think a good agency has a lot to offer even if finding one is like finding a unicorn! I will say that using the dating websites is a TON of work. It is a fulltime job for me to pursue this option. If I could relocate and work there again for a while it would be the ideal choice for me but I can’t do that at the moment.

I’ve also been undergoing an extensive weight loss and training regimen. I was already and avid bicyclist but I have introduced intensive weight training. Since I’ve joined the board I’ve lost over 90 lbs. I’ve dropped 8” in my waist size and generally in excellent condition. All this didn’t seem to change how Lana thought of me which is a good thing as she was focused on thing other than my physical appearance which was never bad to begin with.

I wanted to be the best that I can. I almost died from a lung infection contracted while working in the FSU that cause my weight to balloon up anyway. I got rid of the 140+ pounds I gained from that and extra 20!

So I feel I need to consider all my options at this point in my life. As a result I am leaving no stone unturned in my quest to find my future partner. I will use the online Russian dating sites, ads, agencies, referrals by friends, etc.

As a sort of interesting adjunct, I have had several women write me who were already attached but wanted to set me up with their friends! Women obviously know when another woman is good looking. Each woman said she had a very attractive friend she wanted to set me up with. I asked about their character and other important points. They sent me photos and their friends are quite attractive. If they are even remotely close as to how they look in their photos and as their personalities were described I will have some pretty good options. I even had one woman write me to set me up with one her employees. That has to be a first. This woman is the director of a pretty prominent Russian company’s branch in a major city and wants me to meet one of the women that work for her.

These types of referrals I take very seriously. I’ve contacted most of the “referral” women and they seem very nice on the phone and their letters are erudite and interesting. The downside really is the amount of time that this takes. It is so much easier to just show at an agency and see what is available. There is a huge amount of time investment as well as almost emotional/intellectual overload. You must look at 1,000’s of profiles to really do this well.

I searched on a major Ukrainian city for women late 20’s to mid 30’s. I found over 5,000 women that met my criteria on Flirt.com.ua. I spent days looking through profiles. I wanted to weed out women with kids and smokers. Their expanded search function is almost impossible to use outside the FSU as you need to send them money via a mobile phone typically to “purchase” that option. I am not in the FSU so that isn’t a good choice. So I manually had to cull the profiles. Even then many women didn’t indicate if they had kids and later I found out they did or that they smoked.

I ended up with about 100 that I really was interested in writing. I spent all day Sat. and Sun. writing women. I wrote about 50 that period and Flirt screwed me and blocked my account for violating their terms of service which in fact I didn’t do. So my account was blocked any and all messages sent to me were bounced and told that my account was blocked. So in effect I just wasted all my time. The short version of this is I wrote their admin and my account was unblocked but I lost almost 2 days of possible replies. Since many of these women were logging on every day, I definitely missed out on quite a few replies. I also couldn’t tell who actually read my letters or not as it indicated ALL my letters were opened even for women that hadn’t logged on in a month.

Flirt apologized to me (what a rarity for a company in the FSU) and said it was a technical glitch. So I basically wrote off all those women as it wasn’t worth write them all again. However the first 5 women who read my emails all replied before may account was blocked. Even factoring in those “dead” letters, my overall response rate is about 30 out of all the women I wrote.  Considering some women didn’t list age requirements I think that is pretty good. I wrote quite a few women that said I would have been outside their ideal age range. Surprisingly I had very good response with the women that had a wider age gap rather than closer. This seems to be counter intuitive. I’ll just chalk it up to my excellent Russian penmanship, my charming smile and my honesty in my letters.  ;-)

So now I am taking it easy with Lana and see how much real interest she has while I reassess how much I am willing to put up with her mother intruding into our relationship. That is a story for another day and would likely be a novella. I can’t say that I’d like to write about it. Some of the members here know some of the details and it isn’t really something that would be relevant to many people’s situation. In fact, it is a freak confluence of events that I hope to never repeat in my life. The attack by the horse earlier this year seems mild by comparison…

[Vaughn]

Taz,

  I don't believe I've ever had an exchange with you on this site, but here goes: I'm trying to figure out
if as you said, "Things are dead with Lana and me" or " now I am taking it easy with Lana and see how
much real interest she has..." .....Are you seeking a new relationship with the half-hearted approach? It's
a serious question I'd like to have answered.

Regarding personal referrals you state:

These types of referrals I take very seriously.....

yet you recognize and regret

the amount of time that this takes. It is so much easier to just show at an agency and see what is available. There is a huge amount of time investment as well as almost emotional/intellectual overload. You must look at 1,000’s of profiles to really do this well.

This is not critcism, just my observation: Stick with the personal referrals, which, IMO and many others',
is a far surer shot than the multitudes in catalogs. You eliminate your need to "weed" the smokers,
the mothers, and all you require in the woman you want. That is, if Lana and you are truly history.

If time is not your ally but your adversary, invest it wisely in ladies referred to you by those who know
you and see you a fit partner for their friends or employees, as the case may be. Throw out the catalog
approach and take these opportunities more seriously than the "very seriously" you submitted above.

Vaughn


   

[Taz]

Thanks, I just noticed a typo. I corrected it. Should have read "not dead" rather than simply dead. Nothing like creating confusion on such a critical point. Totally confuses the intended meaning.

I'll take a referral over almost any other type of meeting. It is typically much easier.

I realize time is not on my side. It is truly almost anyone's adversary in this endeavor. I don’t really subscribe to the catalog approach in general. About 95% of all the RW I’ve met in the past have been through methods other than an agency. Typically they were through friends or meeting them while on vacation. I would see an interesting woman and go up and make her acquaintance in person similar to what I would do anywhere else.

I could easily meet quite a few women this way. The disadvantage is you don’t know if they have kids or other relevant criteria. Since I have less free time to do this now, I have to be more focused. I’ll maximize my time as best I can.

[Vaughn]

Should have read "not dead" rather than simply dead. Nothing like creating confusion on such a critical point.

Then there is some degree of hope for you and Lana - which I understand. But my
question remains unanswered: Are you approaching the search half-heartedly? With
Lana as your back-up plan? The second part of my question is not intended to pin
you into a corner, but to highlight the merits of searching with a clear focus, free of
distraction.

 About 95% of all the RW I’ve met in the past have been through methods other than an agency.....
 The disadvantage is you don’t know if they have kids or other relevant criteria.

C'mon now - you've already screened at least a few referrals by phone - they're

quite attractive....  very nice on the phone and their letters are erudite and interesting.

You've already invested the time to consider them "good prospects" - why not take the
next step and go meet one or more of them?

[Taz]

My eyes are wide open and my efforts are far from half-hearted. I've easily put 60 hours into this search alone in the last 2 weeks. Combine that with the fact I've been working 60 hours a week for my normal job and I'd say I've been pretty dedicated to this.

In addition I've spoken to 12 different women on the phone WHILE keeping up my calls to Lana over the past few weeks. In the last week alone, I've spent 10 hours on the phone with different women. If it wasn't for my language skills there is almost no way I could keep up with this if I had to coordinate a translator. A surprising benefit though has been that some of the women didn't list English on their profile but they have a good grasp of it. Not as good as my Russian but sometimes our vocabulary doesn't overlap and she might know the word in English when I don't know it in Russian and vice versa.

I am clearly have my eye on the ball. At this point I can't say that Lana is my backup or my primary. I have spoken with some pretty interesting women. I plan to meet several of them for sure. I plan to go back in a few weeks. I don't know if Lana will be available but we'll see.

I gave her plenty of advance notice and told her when I could come. The rest is up to her. I have given her plenty of opportunities but there are character traits that give me cause about a future with her at this point... I don't know if I can live with certain aspects of her character or not.

[Vaughn]

I found my own ability to converse po-Russki was indispensable - in those days, my wife
spoke no English at all.

Good luck in your journey. I hope you meet a lady who knocks your
socks off in all ways.

As for this board, I encourage you to hang around as time permits. I've had my share of
troubles with certain posters but have learned to ignore them. With time, most of them
disappear without the going away party.

Vaughn

[Ade]

Someone wrote this in 1995 when RW/WM relationship was only few years old.


RUSSIAN WOMEN

Do They Make Good Wives?

Lots, and lots, and lots of utter drivel deleted   

My girlfriend and I just read this entire post and I can honestly say that I've never seen her so worked up about anything before. 

To put it politely she says that the entire post is complete and utter bollocks.

Now, back to your scheduled programming. 

[BC]

I thought you had me on "ignore"..

The two clicks on ignore I was referring to were for you and Sandro.

[msmoby_ru]

Mark,

EVERYONE has an agenda. The only question is whether they intend to be a productive contributing member of our community at RWD, or not.

RWD has, in point of fact, banned VERY few people - and only those who repeatedly

Dan,

Let me clarify - I haven't got an "agenda" to


"disrupt" your board.... I'm not posting racist remarks, nor discussing the size of genetalia like some sex-starved teenager.

I'm not advising members that you should ignore all emails from someone because they use a popular Eastern European email client.

I'm all for getting to the truth and offering sound advice for guys who really SERIOUSLY  want to look for a wife..

THAT's my "agenda"..

[BC]

I'm all for getting to the truth and offering sound advice for guys who really SERIOUSLY  want to look for a wife..

THAT's my "agenda"..

but guess what.. with over 150.000 posts that 'truth' has not been found yet so I suggest that you, nor I are in any position to propose the final bit of advice on anything.

State your opin, share your reasoning, discuss and debate YOUR position on the matter and leave the decisions up to those that will ultimately make and be responsible for them.

[Ade]

but guess what.. with over 150.000 posts that 'truth' has not been found yet so I suggest that you, nor I are in any position to propose the final bit of advice on anything.

State your opin, share your reasoning, discuss and debate YOUR position on the matter and leave the decisions up to those that will ultimately make and be responsible for them.

But as we know or should at least, opinions are not all of equal worth nor are they equally valid. Sure, some people can be a little pedantic in their pursuit of truth sometimes but then again some people can be as pedantic in what seems to be the pursuit of silliness (for want of a more general term that covers a lot of posts here).

I think Mark/moby, like several others here, at least attempts to cut through the bull, sweeping generalizations and silly mythology that surrounds the FSU; myths, I may add, that some people want to reinforce and continue rather than dispel.

[BC]

I think Mark/moby, like several others here, at least attempts to cut through the bull, sweeping generalizations and silly mythology that surrounds the FSU; myths, I may add, that some people want to reinforce and continue rather than dispel.

Care to qualify your statement?

I think RWD and most members do quite well cutting to the core of matters at hand.  It's fairly easy to skim flotsam.

[Sculpto]

Having been a veteran of many different forums, email lists and newgroups I think I can say with some degree of accuracy that part, a very big part, of the problem, is people often post poorly written and not completely thought out information, ideas, opinions and so on.  The immediacy of the media is the root of the problem in this regard, plus, there is no way to see someones facial expressions and body language which turns jokes into insults and serious comments into hilarious anecdotes.  Also, people have very different levels of education and fluency within their own languages, especially ahem, Americans.  (i now expect to get pounded by my paisanos)

Then, you get into overinflated egos, trolls, and those with less than stellar self esteem who for some odd reason become more strident in their lecture when they sit in front of a computer screen.  People will say things online they would never have the balls to say IRL.

Then, you throw in the hot button topic of love, romance and relationships and there is a fast formula for hurt feelings and arguments.  In my own case I look back at how I reacted last year to the ladies at anti-date when they busted my chops as I proceeded into a stupid and avoidable situation.  Nevertheless my brain was so wired in one direction I was really offended by what in retrospect was excellent advice.

Sometimes I get criticized for long posts.  (wonder why???)  But, through my experience using the internet I have found it is better to be long winded, specific, accurate and write in a style that is very easy to read.  So, I would rather be criticized for length than end up in a flame war, or, spending a lot of time clarifying my thoughts instead of getting real advice. 

.02 kopeks and oh yeah... try to use spell check.. makes you look smarter even if you aren't as smart as you will end up looking. 

[Shadow]

Sculpto you are one of the examples that shows it does pay off to bust a guys balls when he is getting on the wrong track.
When comparing your current posts to the story on Antidate, I should give you the 'most improved' award, even if you are not out of the woods yet.

For the old guys, when there is less new inflow all that remains is discussing the same old topics with the same old guys. And be honest, most of us are not yet senile enough to enjoy that.