where can I meet a real man?

[Moonlight]

Well, really need your advice, men.

Im now 29 years old, good-looking sincere happy person, succedede too much in life except private life, trying to find my soulmate anywhere in the world. I have been on web-sites for few years by now and really think its very difficult to meet reliable, interesting, family-oriented man anywhere. Does anybody know where they are all hidden?
Here is my little story:
Man 1 - After corresponding about 4 months, we have met, and were attracted to each other, and next time we've met,  all he was doing when were together in my home town was reading Bible and praying. I could not continue relationship with a person who was making me to go to church every Sunday (Im not religious)
Man 2 - met me on msn, in 2 days flew from Europe, have a lovely time off in January together, and then he left and never sent me any messages again.
Man 3 - we met in 3rd country, he lied me so much so everytime he was telling me anything from yesterday, the facts never been the same so every day i heard new stories about his ex-private life. He lied to me that he was arrested as well. God, what made me met him??
Man 4 - the brilliant man, I really really like him and we are in touch, calling, chatting, but he said - please dont wait for me, look for another man as Im not even thinking about family... sad as we understand each other sometimes without words...

As you can see, after such experience I start feeling that I will never meet someone very special man. What do you think - am I just being unlucky or there might be something I do wrong?  No language barriers as Im fluent in English/German, excellent education, 2 degrees, lots to say and lots to listen to. Its just been frustrating that being "so good", i cant meet anyone...

Also, tell, please which site do you guys normally consider as good ones to look for a girl?

[Jack]

ahhh,.... another what should be an interesting and humerous thread.

 

[Moonlight]

should not be as im here not to make fun but to try to understand - what men normally look for in women... 

[Misha]

As you can see, after such experience I start feeling that I will never meet someone very special man. What do you think - am I just being unlucky or there might be something I do wrong? 

Dating is a numbers game. As the saying goes, you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince

[BC]

Moonlight,

Sounds like you are doing the right things.. meeting men and making good choices.

Be patient, and never let that feeling 'it will never happen' get too deep in your head.  Learn to trust that things will happen quite 'automatic' when they are 'right' and not necessarily when you want them to happen.

What will be, will be.. -but only if you let it.

[Pike]

As others have said, it is a numbers game.  That means you need to have contact with as many men as possible who meet your minimum criteria.  And life is too short, so you should not confine yourself to just one man at a time in your planning.  It is inefficient use of your time to pursue a relationship with just one man until it fizzles out, then go to another relationship, etc.  All is fair up to the point that you become engaged.

To meet the maximum number of men, place your profile on websites that allow men to contact you for free or for a monthly membership fee.  Avoid sites where the men must pay individual fees to contact each lady.

I  would suggest LuckyLovers, MerryDating, EastWest, Freerussianpersonals.

Also,  there are a number of very good websites that will not allow FSU ladies to join because of the inordinate number of scammers in the FSU.  However, you can try to circumvent these restrictions by getting someone in the west to help you register on those sites.  Do  you have friends in the west who will help you use their e-mail addresses, etc.?

Further, you should carefully define (to yourself and others) what you mean by 'real man.'

[viking]

Moonlight, if it is any consolation, we men go through the exact same thing.

Perhaps a little more on the chat side, to develop the relationship may help you. If you are more intereted is a person from an English/German speaking country, have them call and talk and talk and talk. Further, since you now have some experience, do not be afraid to ask the questions that are important to you.

[Sculpto]

I think asking questions is really important.  I have often felt when I was more in search mode that ladies didn't ask real questions and their answers to my questions were too simple and superficial.  At some point if I saw a pattern of low quality responses to my questions I moved on as it showed either the lady was not interested or she had nothing to say.

[Gator]

So far you have not done badly compared to some stories I have heard from other RW about the Western men they met.  For example, one RW did as you did with Man No. 2 (first meet in another country) except her man never showed nor called.


To meet a serious and compatible man, you need to be more business-like and have a series of long, open conversations with many serious questions before you decide to meet them. 

This is just a guess, but you seem like a polite, educated RW.   I have a fondness for polite educated RW (married such a Muscovite), particularly their gentle manners.   Such RW do not stick their nose into other people’s business and also seem taken back if one gets personal with them too soon.   Consequently the conversations are as Sculpto described - no substance.

Perhaps Man No. 1 wanted to ask you about religion, but you never gave him the signal that it was okay to ask. 

Man No. 2 was clearly not serious and frankly seems like a sex tourist if he never bothered to contact you again.

Man No. 3 was a psychopathic liar.  Long, repeated conversations would have revealed this man had wind in his head.

Man No. 4  was also the liar, but only about his intentions because I doubt you would have met him if he was not serious about family.

So talk the ears off of the next men who tickle your interest.  Ask bold questions.  In the first conversations ask him questions such as “why he seeks RW” and “If I cook do you clean the dishes.”

After a couple of such conversations, fast forward a year or so to the type of questions you would ask once you discovered that you have fun together, are able to communicate, find each other interesting, and like each other enough to consider marriage.  This is called “Converse in Reverse.”  You ask questions such as “How many babies”,  “How frequent do you think I should return to see my mama”,  “Describe what you will do to help me adjust to your country“, “What financial responsibilities will I have”, “Do you need for me to earn money”, “If I work, what do we do with my income”  “I need to see my girlfriends at least once per week”, “Exactly what was wrong between you and your ex-wife”, “What type of relationship do you have with your mother, father and rest of your family,” etc.

You will probably have fewer men wanting to meet you; however, those who do come will be seriously interested in you after you have screened out the oddballs and unserious. 

[Blues Fairy]

Like a big fish in the ocean, you'll have to filter tons and tons of plankton before you catch anything worthy of interest.  You'll have to figure out a way not to invest very much into the filtering process.  Writing is an excellent sieving tool.  After a year of intense letter-writing, I noticed it took me 3-4 letters to tell plankton from a real catch.  It took me 3 years of letter writing to arrive to the fateful meeting with my now-husband.

[BillyB]

Also, tell, please which site do you guys normally consider as good ones to look for a girl?

Sign up for as many sites as you can. Bride.ru is one. When your profile gets old, refresh it and get back to the front page. Old profiles on page 53 get little attention. About 5% of the men writing you will get on a plane to visit. Maybe the visit will be to you or someone else. Some women never get a man to visit. You must be decent looking and/or displayed good character during correspondence to have 3 men visit you already. The odds are low to get someone to visit and low to find someone right for you and you being right for him. Listing your profile at more sites will get you more exposure and hopefully it's enough that the good man you're looking for will find you.

[felix8787]

Wow, I am sorry to hear about your misfortune moonlight.

[ScottinCrimea]

The four men you describe all seem very different.  What was it about them that motivated you to write/respond to them and to have them come to visit?  Are you setting some clear criteria?  You need to be sure what it is you are looking for and then ask the types of questions Gator mentions to see if they fit.  Don't be in a rush to meet the first man who has the cash for a plane ticket.  What were their criteria? Did you even know?

[Jooky]

Also, tell, please which site do you guys normally consider as good ones to look for a girl?

A few sites that generally have a good reputation here are:

www.bride.ru
www.elenasmodels.com
www.freepersonals.ru
www.luckylovers.net

I've heard mixed reviews of these sites, but men definitely use them:

www.city-of-brides.com
www.loveme.com
www.loversplanet.com
www.russian-women.net

These sites have bad reputations for listing scammers, but get much traffic. Although they have bad reputations, for you they might still be a good place to find a man:

www.anastasiaweb.com
www.angelika.net
www.hotrussianbrides.com

There are many more sites and smaller agencies (depending on where you are from). You might as well as many sites as possible and then sort the multitude of responses you will get.

What sites have you used so far?

I second Gator's advice. It doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong, and you're not especially unlucky, but a direct approach can certainly weed out who is not serious. Personally, I'd be impressed by it. 

[TwoBitBandit]

You certainly have an uphill battle.  In the "dating" portion of this whole endeavor, the odds are stacked a little in the man's favor.

The single best thing you can do for yourself is invest in pictures.  They don't need to be professional pictures if you have a friend that has some artistic talent with a camera.  (Not everyone is good at taking pictures.)  Get your hair professionally done, do a good job on your makeup, and go take a couple hundred pictures of yourself in various outfits, poses and scenery.  Then find the best 3-4 out of that.  Get a couple of male friends to help you decide if you're not sure.

I emphasize the pictures because men are shallow.  Even educated men are shallow.  It's just the way we're wired.  10% of the profiles on these sites are getting 90% of the attention.  If you post a profile with an average picture you're not going to get many responses.  Put yourself in the best light.

I agree with the advice of getting yourself on as many sites as possible.

I've met many of the men that are looking for wives in the FSU.  I'd say this about them: 50% are decent successful guys, and 50% of them are loser douchebags.  There's almost nothing in-between.  If you start to get shakey-sounding letters from someone just cut them loose.

I disagree with the advice above about setting up a profile on some of the American dating sites.  The majority of Americans don't even have a passport.  As soon as a guy you find on those sites figures out that you can't get a visa, and that for you to meet he has to travel to your country, he's likely to just say forget it.  (Or hem and haw about it for a few months and then forget it, wasting your time writing you letters.)  I admit there's a chance this will work, but you'll certainly be chasing a LOT of false trails and writing a LOT of letters to find the guy you're looking for.  If you use the sites that are dedicated to international dating, at least the guys will have gotten over the mental hump that they will eventually have to get on a plane to go to the next step.

[Lily]

No language barriers as Im fluent in English/German, excellent education, 2 degrees, lots to say and lots to listen to. 

Moonlight, did you ever considered an independent immigration to a Western country, by work or by enrolling in some studies? Have you spent months / years of time abroad yourself?

I mention the immigration because the dating dynamics in the West is drastically different from what we use to see in the FSU. If you succeed to get yourself in the West as a resident, you will have an incredible edge over about 99% of Russian girls and women who are on dating sites in Russia looking for love. You marketability in the attractivity and dating department will skyrocket at once when you walk down the streets in the USA, Canada, etc.

What have happened to you so far is a reflection of this dating dymanics, I guess.

Other than that, people gave you a good advice here.

[Moonlight]

Thank you guys for your advice , I will get backt o you today a little bit later,

To Lily:

yes, two years in the US when i was 19-21, was incredibly devoted to work-studies so never ever thought about looking for soulmate there. Now - great lovely job in MSK, friends, family. Only one reason what would make me go abroad permanetly would be the man whom i would want to start a family. Immigration via job - yes, could be, but still completing my mba so need to stay incountry for a year.

[Turboguy]

I will agree that lots of men use the second and third tier agencies that Jooky suggested however what I think would be the biggest problem with those is you would have to compete with all the ghost ladies that men get dozens of letters from each day written by the agency often using a photo of a professional model.  For a man using those agencies they are often too captivated by their imaginary hottie who is professing love even though she is 18 and a total fox and he is a frumpy 60 year old (or in a few cases a 40 year old nerd)

I think one potential pitfall in Lily's suggestion is that she is correct.  Dating is far different in the west.   You would get lots of attention from men if you were living in the west but I do think the motivations are much different.  I think the average guy using Elena's is looking for a wife.  I think the average guy on Match is looking for a relationship at best and far less motivated to marry.   I won't say they never marry but it is less frequent and a longer process.  Still it would be a good option.  

[Lily]

I think the average guy using Elena's is looking for a wife.  I think the average guy on Match is looking for a relationship at best and far less motivated to marry.   I won't say they never marry but it is less frequent and a longer process.  Still it would be a good option.  

The Elenas does also have a section "RW that are already in the West', for those who cannot travel long. Guess who would get an eye-to-eye meeting quicker?

Your point Turbo is the motivation of the men on RW related and non-RW related dating sites. Generally, I do agree with you on those observations.

However, what I also noticed is the overall quality of the men who use Elena's, and of the men who use Match. The generall quality of men in terms of them being interesting, whatever is meant by this word, would probably be higher on Match rather then on Russian brides related websites. For us RW that would mean that even if we are approached by a number of men at Elenas, we still would have to open their mails and sigh, 'oh my gosh can I really live with that??' Their motivation to marry may be directly correlating with their unattractivity to the women..sorry to say that. Could we live with a good family oriented man to whom we are not attracted? I doubt so...We cannot make him happy.

There is also no guarantee that we RW could find a man in the West either, but the odds are just infinitely better.

[Jooky]

Moonlight,

Since you actually lived in the US for 2 years on work study programs in the past, it's likely you could obtain a tourist visa to the US. I'd recommend it. It sure would help in the dating process in case you meet an American man that interests you.

In some previous posts you mentioned you were engaged and going through the K-1 visa with an American. What happened to that. Was that one of the 4 men listed above?

Knowing the experiences quite a few Russian women that moved to the US, I disagree with Lily that your chances to meet men, especially decent marriage minded men, are infinitely better here. I'd say only slightly better. Living in California I've heard women complain about 'all the good men are gay or taken' even more than I've heard Russian women complain about the lack of 'good' men. But there's no harm in checking out Match.com and other US based dating sites along with the marriage sites... as long as you have plenty of time.

Lily, what sites and methods have you used, and how have things been working out?

[Moonlight]

Yes, Jooky, I wrote earlier that we applied for K1 visa. That was with man1 religious guy.

Everyone was writing  that communications is important. Of course I talked and talked and talked long hours with all man I met. My exfiancee , religious guy, we spent hundred of hours on phone, msn knowing each other better. He of course told me that he was religious and attended church every Sunday, but i think i just did not realize how deeply religious he was. He was nice, but now i really cant say that he was even clever. The way he acted when we started to discuss how i should send him my engagement ring back was absolutely ridiculous, he was so dull trying to persuade me that there is nothing wrong in sending 5000$ ring via post or putting it into t-shirt.  I thought I was in love with this person but it made seriously think about his mental ability afterwards. And as I said - all questions Gator advised I asked and talked and got very clear picture what to expect. The worst thing was - I just got my PhD inRussia and he said - here in US people dont care about degree, if they need money they will be happy to work in McDonalds. I asked - do you expect me to work in MD and the answer was - yes, why not. Devastating I would say. Im really glad Im out of this relationship.

The second was the man I talked 1.5 years on the phone every week or twice a week. Was a very interesting person, career minded, achieved great position in his company, with world-wide experience. But he was a typical lair. I also think that the 3rd man was just a sex-tourist and probably the fact i did not agree to have sex with him made him go and never wrote me back again. The man 4 - we have been talking to each other for 2 years now, met 3 times in different countries, so we are beautiful couple, and indeed sad that we want different future - I want family with babies and he wants to travel and being independend. He is from UK, very very lovely guy.
I will check all those sites which you recommended, but im currently on Elena's models and barely barely ever get news EOIs or any new emails. I also tried to contact first but most of the times I see my emails deleted without being read. Whats wrong i wonder? Im not ugly, Im not stupid, some pictures I posted were good indeed - at least my friends say that and I dont think they lie to me  . To be honest its just getting sometimes very frustrating to look for so many years and get no luck at all.

[Moonlight]

  oh, I totally forget about man 5 - in October I went to 3rd country to meet a guy who was flying from Canada to meet me. One exception - he was Russian-Jewish so of course there were no language / culture barriers. We started corresponding somewhere in July, in Oct decided to meet, and nothing good went out of this. In Sept he wrote me that he doesnt want to go to meet me as he was not sure that Im a right person which he wants to find in life and as tickets, hotels, visas were ready I said - lets go anyway - tickets were nonrefundable so that was the main reason I said that. He agreed and it was neither bad nor good trip - he was man i say in Russian "not a man". Constantly hesitating, calling his mom 8 times a day asking - mom can i go there or can I buy it? He is 38 years old, professior at University. I of course respect Jewish families but making son be sooooooooooooooooooooooo dependant upon mom so i even though that once if he marries he will be asking mom - may i make love to her?    sounds harsh but it was my impression after that trip.

[Lily]

Lily, what sites and methods have you used, and how have things been working out?

I used Elenas and European Connections for less than 1 year, and Friendfinder since 2005. I think I have been lucky on them, because from a number of men that I contacted and who contacted me, I succeeded to make good male acquaintances. I love men, and I spot interesting men everywhere, website including. Soon they developed in steady daily contacts, but after some months (two e- and videoromances lasted for a year) the men disappear. Just stopped answering my calls and mails, despite my reminders. One 14-months contact however informed that he found a local woman, ans excused himself.
For disappeared contacts, after about a second reminder unreplied, I considered them a dead end.

Unlike Moonlight, I did not discovered any serious flaws in my men. My mind was not set on criticizing them. I enjoyed our conversations and wished to meet them in real as soon as possible. As I told, I love men ans believe that they are most admirable creatures on earth. I may be wrong about it, but it is what I really mean. I hope I made those men feel good..at least I wanted to.

[Jooky]

I'm currently on Elena's models and barely barely ever get news EOIs or any new emails. I also tried to contact first but most of the times I see my emails deleted without being read. Whats wrong i wonder?

New interest or mails can depend on several things such as your location and how often you log in.

About making contact first, but not getting reponses, it's tough. I was on Elenas and most of the women that contacted me first (whose emails I opened), contacted me then did not reply. I was getting many 'first contacts' for my empty profile before I paid to use the service, so already I was skeptical about women contacting me first. I've heard this happens to others as well. This 'wastes' a guy's available contacts, so I think most men prefer to make contact first and end up deleting women who contact them.

With 5 men that you've met in person, it actually sounds like you've had more 'success' than most women I know that have been searching!

[ambach123]

This is a very time consuming and expensive process. I think that a lot of AM start out because RW look beautiful and sexy, but soon enough they have the realization that bringing her and supporting an unemployable RW to USA is a very expensive venture, unless of course you are independantly wealthy. It has become worse in the current economic conditions where the job market is shaky.

American society is built on two income families; at this time the RW is unemployable for the foreseeable future. In years past they could get jobs in retail, in shops, that is no longer a possibility.

If you don't have a job that is in demand, like a physician or a lawyer, or not independantly wealthy, then to venture in this is highly imprudent; most AM don't realize it early on, but they do soon enough, and that is why they disappear.

I don't think it has anything to do with the individual RW herself, it is the reality of the process that hits them.

I was in Kiev just last week, the jaunts that were frequented by Americans were empty.
I tend to believe that East West marriages would come to a halt.

Most people on this board are not effected by this, they did their search long time ago, in different times. Their newly arrived wives could always get a job in Walmart, or in schools etc.
If you saw the jobs report yesterday, that sounds like a distant memory. It is only going to get worse.