where can I meet a real man?

[Pike]

You certainly have an uphill battle.  In the "dating" portion of this whole endeavor, the odds are stacked a little in the man's favor.

The single best thing you can do for yourself is invest in pictures.  They don't need to be professional pictures if you have a friend that has some artistic talent with a camera.  (Not everyone is good at taking pictures.)  Get your hair professionally done, do a good job on your makeup, and go take a couple hundred pictures of yourself in various outfits, poses and scenery.  Then find the best 3-4 out of that.  Get a couple of male friends to help you decide if you're not sure.

I emphasize the pictures because men are shallow.  Even educated men are shallow.  It's just the way we're wired.  10% of the profiles on these sites are getting 90% of the attention.  If you post a profile with an average picture you're not going to get many responses.  Put yourself in the best light.

I agree with the advice of getting yourself on as many sites as possible.

I've met many of the men that are looking for wives in the FSU.  I'd say this about them: 50% are decent successful guys, and 50% of them are loser douchebags.  There's almost nothing in-between.  If you start to get shakey-sounding letters from someone just cut them loose.

I disagree with the advice above about setting up a profile on some of the American dating sites.  The majority of Americans don't even have a passport.  As soon as a guy you find on those sites figures out that you can't get a visa, and that for you to meet he has to travel to your country, he's likely to just say forget it.  (Or hem and haw about it for a few months and then forget it, wasting your time writing you letters.)  I admit there's a chance this will work, but you'll certainly be chasing a LOT of false trails and writing a LOT of letters to find the guy you're looking for.  If you use the sites that are dedicated to international dating, at least the guys will have gotten over the mental hump that they will eventually have to get on a plane to go to the next step.

- - - - - - -

This is a very good post. 

And, since I am the one who suggested the American dating sites, I will now say that this poster has some good points which may mitigate against my suggestion.

It would be useful to hear from some FSU women who might have been able to place themselves on such American dating sites . . . . and hear about their experiences.  That would provide some pro and con evidence concerning this approach.

[ambach123]

A little bit of history.

In the late nineties, Russia suffered a financial collapse.

At that time I quote an agency owner in Russia:

" Almost any dentist from Peoria, Illinois could come here, land at the Moscow airport and leave with tall model looking blond in five days ".

Russians were starving literally; and the RW wanted a ticket out.

Fortunately for the Russians, the commodity prices including oil sky rocketed. Russians became wealthy, some immensely wealthy.

The same RW now wanted suitors with Dolce and Gabana. The poor dentist from Peoria was looked with utter disdain. Every body had enough money to eat Napoleans, drink latte and criticize the Americans specially the dentist guy.

Moscow became the most expensive city in the world.

Fast forward to 2008, the commodity prices have taken a beating, financial collapse part deux for the Russians is in the making; and this time it would be worse. Ruble would have no value in six months, just like Iceland currency.

Would the dentist from Peoria once again become Prince charming for the RW?

You wonder how history repeats itself.

[TwoBitBandit]

Russians were starving literally; and the RW wanted a ticket out.[...]You wonder how history repeats itself.

The days of Russian starving simply because there was no affordable food are over.  Fifty dollars a barrel is hardly an awful price by any historical measure.   Russia's failure to liberalize its economy means that it will continue to lag the western world in wealth, and falling commodity prices will certainly hurt it more, but it's hardly going to become  again 1998 there again.

The days of the loser from the midwest marrying a Moscow model in five days are still long since passed and I doubt they're going to return.

[ambach123]

Whether 1998 would return for the Russians, we don't know.

I think it would be much worse. I was watching Russian TV last week in Kiev, the Russian banks are closed often, and many have no money.

Poeple are pawning their belongings to survive, and this is just the beginning.

Regarding the dentist from Illinois, he deserves respect, at the very least he got the RW out of her starving country, and he pays her bills, that is more than any Russian man ever did for her.

[kryten41]

Regarding putting an ad on an American dating site that doesn't allow members from other countries:  This requires a deception.  Most of the sites such as Match.com include a person's city and state in the required information, as  they normally include "distance" as  a search criteria.  Before I started dating internationally I was disappointed on more than one occasion to find out that the woman who wrote me was thousands of miles away, and not just a few miles away, as stated in her profile.  I began to assume they were all scammers.

On the other hand, if you can clarify your location in your profile, it might be a viable possibility.  I had never considered international dating until I received an email from a Russian woman at Match or Matchmaker or somesuch; she was quite clear in her profile that she lived in Russia, and that "it won't be simple".

[BC]

Regarding the dentist from Illinois, he deserves respect, at the very least he got the RW out of her starving country, and he pays her bills, that is more than any Russian man ever did for her.

Just don't count on the RW to be eternally in debt and grovel at the sight of a fat wallet.  In the end you had better be what she really wants and not just the path of least resistance to her true desires.

Before someone starts screaming GCG, think of human nature.

[ambach123]

BC under the current circumstances, if not for her benefactor, the only place RW can live is under a bridge, at least in the United States.

Would things change?

I don't know, but I don't believe they are changing anytime in the near future for the better, they are predicted to get worse.

Again, most people on this board brought their RW in different times.

[pitbull]

BC under the current circumstances, if not for her benefactor, the only place RW can live is under a bridge, at least in the United States.

Ambach, could you explain what you mean by this? Do you mean thay any RW is helpless without a man in the US?

[ambach123]

Pitbull, as I have already stated, RW is unemployable in USA, at least under the current economic conditions. In previous years, she could get a job in retail, or hospitality; both of these are under pressure and they are not hiring. Even the demand for maids is down; so what kind of job can she get in this country?

I believe that it is impossible for her to survive in USA without her benefactor; regardless of her degrees from FSU.

And to think that other men here would be interested in her for marriage is a fallacy; American men when they marry always take into consideration the employability of the future wife; this is a two income society, very few can survive on one income.

[Moonlight]

Guys, Im not asking how im going to survive anywhere, let it be my concern .  Im perfectly educated, and its not even in my plans to live "on the neck" of my future man. The question which I raised in the topic was why im having such a negatinve experience and why good men are so difficult to be found.

[Misha]

Pitbull, as I have already stated, RW is unemployable in USA, at least under the current economic conditions.

Yes, it is harder to get a job during a recession, but recessions do end, and even during a depression people do get hired.

And to think that other men here would be interested in her for marriage is a fallacy; American men when they marry always take into consideration the employability of the future wife; this is a two income society, very few can survive on one income.

Depends on how much you spend. Frugal families can do quite well on one income, but that will mean having only one car, not spending on the newest and biggest plasma televisions, not eating in restaurants every night, etc...

Also, RW as most immigrants, can and do find jobs. It took two years, but my wife now has a decent part-time job as I mentioned. In two more years, I am sure she will be able to find a better job or she will go back to university or college for a couple of years to upgrade her skills or get training for a new profession.

[Misha]

Guys, Im not asking how im going to survive anywhere, let it be my concern .  Im perfectly educated, and its not even in my plans to live "on the neck" of my future man. The question which I raised in the topic was why im having such a negatinve experience and why good men are so difficult to be found.

Well, I believe that a good man (or woman) is always difficult to find. It is a good sign: you are no desperate and you are willing to wait for the right man. As I noted, dating is a numbers game, so the challenge is to increase the number of potential matches and to weed out the less than desirable matches and not waste too much time on them.

How to increase your numbers? Perhaps you can try as was suggested putting a profile on different sites? Also, the next question is how quickly do you rule out men? Sometimes women (like men), look for perfection immediately. This does not seem to be your case, as you did meet five men already. The question is how to meet a man who will be compatible with you. This requires knowing what you want and then making sure you do not want contradictory things.

[ambach123]

Moonlight, I am sure your intentions are perfectly honorable.

But intentions are one thing and reality is another.

In my opinion, you can't find a good man, because there are not many men out there who would want to take on the added responsibillity of supporting a RW.

Even if they write letters at length, eventually reality hits them and they bail out.

[viking]

Moonlight. Just a suggestion. There is a site called Eharmony.com. I am not in favor of this site because of how they "match" two people together. However, they ask you quite a few questions about yourself to perform the matchmaking. What I am suggesting here is that perhaps the questions being asked may give you some inner perspective of yourself and therefore a better means of asking the right questions to a man whom you think may be a decent prospect and thereby avoiding the negative experience.

Finding a decent man and avoiding a negative experience are two different issues. A guy may be a good and honest man, but not on the same page as you in many ways. Meeting him will be a negative experience since you have high expectations before meeting but because you and he did not explore the issues most important to each of you those expectations are not met in person.

[groovlstk]

I believe that it is impossible for her to survive in USA without her benefactor; regardless of her degrees from FSU.

And to think that other men here would be interested in her for marriage is a fallacy; American men when they marry always take into consideration the employability of the future wife; this is a two income society, very few can survive on one income.

Every step of the way since your arrival here, your method for finding a RW, wooing her, and marrying and keeping her has as its basis one sort of economic entrapment or another. I don't know if it's because you have so little faith in whatever else you have to offer a woman, but if you honestly think that your fiancee is going to remain faithfully married to you simply because she'll be trading desperate economic straits in Ukraine for a sort of negotiated comfort in the US - you'll be in for a sad awakening some day.

Moonlight, as others have stated earlier, you're doing extremely well in that four men have made the effort to travel to meet you. I'd guess that most women never even get one man to visit; you must have some outstanding qualities that are easily discernable. It's a numbers game and the sad fact is that there are a lot of screwballs and psychologically damaged people in this pursuit, and you'll have to wade through them and try your best not to let them make you cynical.

[roykirk]

Yes, it is harder to get a job during a recession, but recessions do end, and even during a depression people do get hired.

Depends on how much you spend. Frugal families can do quite well on one income, but that will mean having only one car, not spending on the newest and biggest plasma televisions, not eating in restaurants every night, etc...

Also, RW as most immigrants, can and do find jobs. It took two years, but my wife now has a decent part-time job as I mentioned. In two more years, I am sure she will be able to find a better job or she will go back to university or college for a couple of years to upgrade her skills or get training for a new profession.

I agree and think that Ambach's assessment of the situation here is a little too "doom and gloom."  One of my good friends has two young children, a mortgage on a modest house, and two cars (one is new).  His wife doesn't work.  He manages this quite comfortably on $75,000 a year.  He does it by not doing exactly what you mentioned.  They don't have the newest plasma TV, they go out to eat at a modest restaurant perhaps once or twice a month, etc.  There are plenty of companies hiring near where I live, it just depends on what your training and background is. 

[Misha]

In my opinion, you can't find a good man, because there are not many men out there who would want to take on the added responsibillity of supporting a RW.

What exactly is this added responsibility of supporting a RW? We can quibble over the costs of finding a wife (Russia or elsewhere), but I do not see the added cost as being overbearing.

What are these expenses?

• Second car? Yes, it would be handy, but my wife can walk to work and her school where she studies English and I can take the bus. Living in a small city makes transportation issues easier, and as such we can easily live with one car.
• School? My wife studies English for free.
• Trips to Russia? My wife is planning her first trip this summer, the first in three years. After this trip, she does not plan on going for another 2 or 3 years.Yes, going to Russia is expensive, but it can be managed.
• Phone calls? My wife calls home once a week and maybe spends $10 a week on calls;
• Clothes? My wife is extremely frugal and buys everything on sale. She even loves combing thrift and used clothes stores to find bargains. Again, nothing major here.

What are the other expenses? Rent? Food? These are things you would have to pay for even if you are single and living alone. I now spend less on food as we cook everything and eat healthy homemade foods. So, it actually costs me less.

The important thing is having a good marriage where you actually discuss home finances and decide together what is best for the family.

[Blues Fairy]

RW is unemployable in USA, at least under the current economic conditions. In previous years, she could get a job in retail, or hospitality; both of these are under pressure and they are not hiring. Even the demand for maids is down; so what kind of job can she get in this country?

I believe that it is impossible for her to survive in USA without her benefactor; regardless of her degrees from FSU.

 

[mspanky]

Moonlight, I am sure your intentions are perfectly honorable.

But intentions are one thing and reality is another.

In my opinion, you can't find a good man, because there are not many men out there who would want to take on the added responsibillity of supporting a RW.

Even if they write letters at length, eventually reality hits them and they bail out.

 In my neighborhood a majority of the wives are stay at home mothers. RW can find many men in the U.S. who are more than willing to take them seriously. Not all AM search for a woman due to what she can bring home financially.

    Take my neighbor for example. 36 year old lawyer married to  34 year old teacher. They had a baby after a year or so of marriage. She has been staying home for the past 3 years. He is a very normal guy. Good looking,in shape and will take the baby out on weekends or nights to give mother a break. They also make a date night once a week. He is very dedicated to his marriage . This is not abnormal. There are many stay at home mothers and housewives in the U.S. To say AM do not seek that is not true. There are many men who would prefer for their wives stay home. After all most of  times demise of marriage is due to spouses meeting someone else at work. I can imagine a RW who married for economic needs would be easy prey for an affair at work if she married out of need rather than love.
 
 

[pitbull]

Pitbull, as I have already stated, RW is unemployable in USA, at least under the current economic conditions. In previous years, she could get a job in retail, or hospitality; both of these are under pressure and they are not hiring. Even the demand for maids is down; so what kind of job can she get in this country?

I believe that it is impossible for her to survive in USA without her benefactor; regardless of her degrees from FSU.

And to think that other men here would be interested in her for marriage is a fallacy; American men when they marry always take into consideration the employability of the future wife; this is a two income society, very few can survive on one income.

Ambach,

What you say is simply not true  

If a RW has a good English and at least MA degree from FSU - no problem surviving, especially in a big city.

I live in Boston, just like you. Never even looked at retail/maid jobs etc. My very first job pays more than an average family income in the US, plus excellent benefits, including health, both for me and my husband. And guess what, I'm getting a good promotion right now. And did I mention no cc or college debt? Marrying me, my husband did better economically than he would have done marrying an average AW  

All my RW girlfriends are doing as well or better in the US. Educated and smart works anywhere in the world  

So, moonlight, don't listen to ambach, you'll do fine!

[ambach123]

There is a saying in my country;

" The past does not foretell the present or the future".

Those who came in yesteryears, and honed up on their skills, did very well.

We went through five years of economic expansion, the biggest this country has ever seen in its history. The expansion was built on a credit bubble, which bursted. I tend to believe that the present and the future would be totally different. In the past there was almost full employment, if Americans themselves are unemployed, they are unlikely to give a RW a job.

The relevant point is that most Americans realize this. I have talked to many men acquaintances of mine about RW, almost all of them said the same thing, that in this climate, they would be unwilling to bring a RW here, because of financial reasons.

[Blues Fairy]

FYI Ambach, my current employer interviewed at least 25 US applicants before I applied (summer 2008, job market already slouching), and guess who got the offer.  Is it so hard for you to understand that the country of origin is not always the decisive factor in the hiring process?

BTW, notice the use of the word "benefactor" instead of sponsor, husband, etc. 
Delusions of grandeur.  

[Turboguy]

Ambach,

What you say is simply not true  

There is SOME truth in what you both say.  There are two big variables.  One is English knowledge.   Being fluent in English will open up a lot of opportunities that are not available to someone who speaks no English or broken English.   The second is the transferability of any job skills.   Some jobs may transfer fine.  Jet's wife and Ambach (I assume) are two good examples of this.   Others may have no relevancy or require a lot of updating before they can get a good job.

I have a feeling if we ran a poll the majority of wives who looked for a job soon after arrival had few opportunities except McDonald's, Mini-Marts, and WalMart.   I think Ambach is the exception not the rule.

For my wife she has chosen to go back to school and take up a new profession.  By the time she finishes school her English should be fine.  Right now she has a bigger vocabulary than I do but still has to work on her accent a little.

For me the costs associated with a new wife were far less than the cost of looking for a wife.   Our first anniversary is a week from today.   Our wedding was inexpensive, her school tuition is not all that bad.  AOS was not that big a deal.  The car should last a while so I can't say the expense involved was any big deal.  

I don't think the average person is feeling the current recession as much as they did the high fuel prices earlier in the year.   Yes, those who are laid off feel it much more but there are jobs out there and I think a lot of the recession stuff has been put in our mind by the news media and politicians.   Yes, there are more layoffs.  I think most in this persuit have a stable job or they would not have been looking east in the first place.
I am sure lots of 401-K's have taken a hit as has the equity in real estate but those are not the kind of thing you fund a trip to the FSU with if you have any sense.

[BC]

Guys, Im not asking how im going to survive anywhere, let it be my concern .  Im perfectly educated, and its not even in my plans to live "on the neck" of my future man. The question which I raised in the topic was why im having such a negatinve experience and why good men are so difficult to be found.

How is your dating at home?

IMHO it's all about exposure and not numbers..  Numbers don't get there sitting on the couch.

As you noticed, internet 'numbers' don't really count until you meet, and as far as those number go (as someone noted upthread) not bad at all..

I think a lot of folks that drop local dating when concentrating on dating afar are not doing themselves any favours.

[pitbull]

FYI Ambach, my current employer interviewed at least 25 US applicants before I applied (summer 2008, job market already slouching), and guess who got the offer.  Is it so hard for you to understand that the country of origin is not always the decisive factor in the hiring process?

BTW, notice the use of the word "benefactor" instead of sponsor, husband, etc. 
Delusions of grandeur.  

BF,

Totally agree with you. Employers don't care whether they hire an RW, AW, or any other W or M... They want the best employee they can get. And here it all comes down to qualifications and personality. Being an American doesn't automatically make one a better candidate 

 Turbo, yes, if a RW speaks broken English - no good job for her right away. But then, I don't believe in a relationship without truly sharing a common language. This is why I would recommend AM to look for RW who are fluent in English. Higher employability is an added bonus 

Also, even if her profession is not transferrable - there are many options. For example, take a starting position in a different area and make your way up. You can study part-time, some employers even pay for education. Again, everything comes down to personal qualities here.

And if one moves to a large city - I see no problem at all. The recession is milder than the media portrays - not even close to the 1980s