FSU House Numbering System

[SANDRO43]

I was wondering whether the FSU follows the same system used in most EU cities for assigning numbers to street houses, viz.:

- 'Radial' streets: proceeding outwards from the city center, odd numbers on the left side, even numbers on the right side.
- Circular/cross streets: ditto, after turning into them anti-clockwise.

Are street block numbers still in use, such as house no. 22 in the 5th block being 5/22 ? IIMN, the USA use a similar system, however increasing by 10 at eack block and joining the two numbers, so that 5/22 would be their 5022.   

[viking]

In the US, at least in New York the system goes by 100. The first block is 0-100. the second 100-199. even on the left and odd on the right. Many times there is a main street, usually in the center of town that further separates between east and west. In NYC that is Fifth avenue. One block east of Fifth Avenue is East and the numbers continue higher radiating outward and the same for West side. (east 102 -32nd street and west 102 -32nd street).

[SANDRO43]

In the US, at least in New York the system goes by 100. The first block is 0-100. the second 100-199. even on the left and odd on the right. Many times there is a main street, usually in the center of town that further separates between east and west. In NYC that is Fifth avenue. One block east of Fifth Avenue is East and the numbers continue higher radiating outward and the same for West side. (east 102 -32nd street and west 102 -32nd street).

So, supposing that you had:

3 houses in the 1st block, 5 houses in the 2nd and 1 house in the 3rd

their numbers would be:

0, 1, 2 - 100,101,102,103, 104 - 200

respectively? Is a number 0 actually used?

[SANDRO43]

In Italy we number houses consecutively, without gaps. I had always been chagrined by the fact of being a Milanese but not born in Milan (in 1943 it was raining Allied bombs here), until one day my mom told me as a consolation that though I'd not been born in Milan, I had been conceived in it , in a hotel at 34, Via Broletto, a street in central Milan close to our Duomo.

After this revelation,  one day I went to Via Broletto to have a look at my birth conception place and discovered, to my horror, that not only no.34 was no longer there , but neither were nos. 32, 36,38, 40 , probably due to the fact that those houses had been bombed out (not at the wrong time, as far as I was concerned ), and they had rebuilt a smaller number of houses in their place, or expanded old no.42 over the newly available space.

A rather unique situation in Milan, and I'm rather proud of my now virtual origins .

[viking]

Very close. Depends where in the block the house is located. They leave room for development. 5 houses on a block with room for 6 between house 4 and 5 for example. 102, 104, 106, 108, space, 112. Or could be 110, 120, 130, 140, space 180. regardless it is in sequence. Zero is never used. starts with 1 or 2 (odd/even)

[Pike]

Sandro, your question seems to indicate that you are not aware of something that is very different about FSU house numbering (at least compared to USA).

In most of the FSU cities I have been in, it goes like this.

On one side of the street it starts out with 1 and goes on to other odd numbers.
So in a block you could have houses 1,3, 7 and 9.

On the opposite side you might have 2 and 4.

Then in the second block on one side might be 11, 15, 17 and 19.
On the other side you might have 6 and 8.

Follow this though, and after several blocks you can have something like number 1733 on one side and number 34 directly across from it.

Blew my mind the first time I encountered it.  I was walking down the even side of the street thinking that a sequential odd number would be on the opposite side.  I walked several blocks, crossed the street and found that I was off by a mile or so and that my desired odd numbered house was actually near where I had started.

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, your question seems to indicate that you are not aware of something that is very different about FSU house numbering (at least compared to USA).

Hence the premise in my first post . However, it seems to follow our pattern, generally speaking.

In most of the FSU cities I have been in, it goes like this. On one side of the street it starts out with 1 and goes on to other odd numbers. So in a block you could have houses 1,3, 7 and 9.

On the left side, I assume. No no.5?

On the opposite side you might have 2 and 4.Then in the second block on one side might be 11, 15, 17 and 19.On the other side you might have 6 and 8.

On the right side, I assume. No no.13?

Follow this though, and after several blocks you can have something like number 1733 on one side and number 34 directly across from it.

Because of larger buildings there, possibly?

Blew my mind the first time I encountered it.  I was walking down the even side of the street thinking that a sequential odd number would be on the opposite side.  I walked several blocks, crossed the street and found that I was off by a mile or so and that my desired odd numbered house was actually near where I had started.

I wouldn't feel out of my dephth there. Could the missing numbers be war casualties, as in my case ?

[ScottinCrimea]

The numbering system in Simferopol still drives me crazy.  The address will be the street and the block of that street, in sequential order.  For example, something like Street Lenina 6, which means the sixth block on Lenin Street.  Where the block numbering starts from I'm not sure. Then the house numbers go up one side and then down the other so you don't have odd on one side and even on the other.  To really confuse things, if they have buildings inside the block itself instead of on the street, they will also have numbers, so you may have numbers 1 and 3 on the street and another building with the number 2 behind them and not visible from the street.  Just to add to the confusion, if they build another building inside the block next to number 2, it might be labeled 2A.

[dispozo]

  Just to add to the confusion, if they build another building inside the block next to number 2, it might be labeled 2A.

I addressed New Years cards yesterday, I had a 23A. 

[SANDRO43]

The numbering system in Simferopol still drives me crazy.  The address will be the street and the block of that street, in sequential order.  For example, something like Street Lenina 6, which means the sixth block on Lenin Street.  Where the block numbering starts from I'm not sure.

Should be on the city-center-wards end of the street, if like here.

Then the house numbers go up one side and then down the other so you don't have odd on one side and even on the other.

So you have a situation like this?

LEFT SIDE
Block 1 - Block 2 - Block 3
Nos. 1,2  3,4,5     6,7,8

Nos. 13  12,11     10,9
Block 1 - Block 2 - Block 3
RIGHT SIDE

A boustrophedonic numbering system ? THAT's weird .

To really confuse things, if they have buildings inside the block itself instead of on the street, they will also have numbers, so you may have numbers 1 and 3 on the street and another building with the number 2 behind them and not visible from the street.

Too much vodka for the city planners ?

Just to add to the confusion, if they build another building inside the block next to number 2, it might be labeled 2A.

That's quite normal here with array buildings, I've been living in a 5A for 35+ years .

[ScottinCrimea]

You got it, Sandro, and it isn't even that consistent.  For example, we are at 10A but some buildings on the same block are 6.  I can't seem to find 7, 8 or 9.

[wxman]

The US can be quite confusing too. For example on my block and my side of the street, the first house on west end of block is number 1500, my house number 1608, and the house next to me is 1700.   Only 7 houses total on my side of street.

[Pike]

Sandro, still not clear if I was getting my point across, or if I was understanding what you say is normal in Italy.

In USA, vast majority of time if a house number 1704 is found on one side of the street; then on the other side within the same block will only be houses numbered 1701 to 1799.  In other words it is the 17 hundred block of the street and all houses will be within the range 1700 to 1799.

In many FSU cities, the two sides of the street are numbered completely independent and  do not follow anything like block rules.

So if a house number is 1704 on one side of the street, the house across from it within the same block might be anything from 3 to 9999 or more.

[SANDRO43]

In USA, vast majority of time if a house number 1704 is found on one side of the street; then on the other side within the same block will only be houses numbered 1701 to 1799.  In other words it is the 17 hundred block of the street and all houses will be within the range 1700 to 1799.

Pike, you seem to imply that a USA block spans across a street . Another weird concept, to me .

[Pike]

Pike, you seem to imply that a USA block spans across a street . Another weird concept, to me .

Not sure I understand you completely.

The 17 hundred block of High Street would include buildings and numbers within the range of 1700 to 1799 on both sides of High Street.

[SANDRO43]

Not sure I understand you completely.

Pike, in my experience I've seen block numbers assigned independently on either side of a street because they are not necessarily of equal length, i.e. one may see 1 block on one side facing 2 blocks on the other side (with a T-junction side street in the middle, Case A).

The 17 hundred block of High Street would include buildings and numbers within the range of 1700 to 1799 on both sides of High Street.

This also assumes an equal and uniform distribution of houses on BOTH sides of the street, not a universal occurrence (Case B).

[mendeleyev]

This can be very confusing to a Westerner.  I understand exactly what you are saying regarding an address.  If I were to give you our Moscow address for example it might look something like this:  Mendeleyevskaya Avenue, 23-7-311.  You would understand the need to find 23 first, as this is the 'house.'

Next we'd find the "korpus" and a house can have many which in this case would be 7 (and A, B, C, etc) added are just multiple entries to the same house.  It's confusing because a "house" can have more than one "building."   

Several buildings could be house #23, but the buildings themselves will be numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 for example.

Then we'd find the correct entry and proceed up the lift or stairs to apartment #311.  It could be up on the 8th floor and as you can see from the address of 23-7-311 nothing in the address speaks to the 8th floor.

In Moscow for example most people speak of where they live in terms of a nearby Metro station. Where do you live?  Oh, I live at Stanza Kievskaya.  What is your address?  31 Akademika....just call me at my mobile number and I'll walk out to the bus stop and escort you to my apartment.  It's #7,  apt 311.

[SANDRO43]

Is it all a ruse to confuse the fuzz ? By the time they eventually find your door and start to on it, you'll have made your comfortable getaway .

[mendeleyev]

Imagine that, the government system which was going to show the world how to do central planning couldn't plan their own way out of a vodka bottle.

A lot of the misnumbering came as cities, Moscow being an example, of housing "infill."  As the Khrushchev urban planners began to infill empty spaces, instead of relying on a logical mapping system they simply filled the space and assigned numbers as they were available.

Example:  We live on a large street in northwest Moscow.  Going to this map which is great because it lists things in both Russian and English, http://maps.euroave.com/index_map.php?gocountry=russia&gocity=moscow, I could click on our Metro and then see where my street begins.  The first numbered house is 2.  We live at 6.  You'd think it to be just slightly north.  Well it's north all right, but about 2.5 miles north and in a heavily populated area of northwest Moscow, there are lots of spaces/houses between 2 and 6.  Its just that years ago there were only a few where today there are hundreds.

Hundreds of these buildings don't even have numbers!  The sequence goes like this: 2-4-(a 1/2 mile of buildings without numbers)-5-6-7-8-10, etc, then 26-28-30-26 (yep, another 26!)-24-30 (yikes, another 30!)-32 (across from 32 is 11)-34 (across street from 34 is 59)-36-38 and on up.

Proper Russian etiquette indicates that you "receive" your guest, as in you go meet them at the nearby bus stop if they're local or you meet them at the Metro station if they're from out of town.  We live a 15+ minute bus ride from our Metro.

When your guests leave, you return them to the spot where you picked them up.  For children, female or an elderly guest, in the evening you walk them back home if they're from your general neighborhood.

[Ranetka]

Is it all a ruse to confuse the fuzz ? By the time they eventually find your door and start to on it, you'll have made your comfortable getaway .

I think very is nothing as confusing as the UK. Some houses here do not have numbers at all!!! You try to find "Oak House, Pine way, Bakonheath"...And streets name is only ther once, in the beginning of the street, not on each house like in Russia (like it supposed to be in Russia). Imagine, you driving, missed your turn, god knows where you are...

[SANDRO43]

I think very is nothing as confusing as the UK. Some houses here do not have numbers at all!!! You try to find "Oak House, Pine way, Bakonheath"

Possibly only in small communities? My own UK experience is basically limited to London.

...And streets name is only ther once, in the beginning of the street, not on each house like in Russia (like it supposed to be in Russia). Imagine, you driving, missed your turn, god knows where you are...

Is it? Here, and in most of Europe IIRC, only at street intersections (see my street plaque).

[Ranetka]

Possibly only in small communities? My own UK experience is basically limited to London.
Is it? Here, and in most of Europe IIRC, only at street intersections.

Town of 70000...Really a nightmare, thank god for satnuvs. I do not know about London, only that they have a lot of streets the same name, you need a post code.

it is supposed to be on every buiding in russia

[SANDRO43]

I do not know about London, only that they have a lot of streets the same name, you need a post code.

Not quite, they have several terms (see http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6383.msg168334#msg168334) to rely on, in addition to street and avenue.

Except that in some cases they may have a cluster of identical names - with different 'definitions' - in the same area, and a one or two others perversely in a totally different part of town, in which latter case a postal code, or city map, or SatNav is indeed necessary .

[SANDRO43]

For other examples of Italian street plaques, and some original names, too , see: http://www.beginningwithi.com/comments/2007/02/16/funny-italian-street-names/.