My Last WMVM Trip to FSU

[topofthekey]

topofthekey,

I dunno about you, but when meeting women, the first indication of interest was an uncomfortable feeling below the belt.

Is that not natural?  Isn't that the 'spark' that all things follow?

Lemme tell ya, I never had even a short term relationship when the physical reaction was not there first, much less a long term relationship.

Comeon.. be honest..

Maybe I'm strange, but within 5 minutes, or probably less I'll know if a woman is 'interesting' or not..  and we're not talking Playboy or Penthouse, just something about the woman that appeals.. could be her mind, could be a big nose, could be seductively chubby, older, younger, nice eyes, nice lips, whatever..

Given the means, I'd probably not dislike the lifestyle Pike describes.  IIRC there were women he met that he dropped and that dropped him before landing in the sack. Hey that's life.  One of the lessons I learned quite a few years ago is that women and men enjoy sex.  Man's largest failing when it comes to women is that men seem to fear (yes mortally fear) the remotest possibility of rejection.  Instead we hide behind a veil of knighthood or such, trying to impress in order to achieve what is often readily available..  pure and simple overkill.

My lesson was with a friend in southern Spain many years ago.  We were in a huge supermarket with maybe 20 or 30 checkout lines.. all filled with some of the finest looking women Spain had to offer.  His shopping basket was filled with:

1 Bottle of wine
1 Box of condoms
1 Package of Bulls Balls.. yes a blooming large set of testicles, Rocky mountain oysters, whatever you wanna call them.

By the time the items were tallied and paid he had a date and I did not.

I really, really thought he would get at the least a good slap.

It was a brash, and a the time I thought quite 'crude' act.. but made me think..

Pike may not be up 'your alley', but hopefully he will make you think.- In the end that is not awfully bad or?


  

I can tell you women play plenty of games here where I am from... so I understand why guys don't want to commit and just want to have fun with them and move on. I really don't have any reason to dispute anything you wrote and I already wrote that I enjoyed Pike's viewpoint. For some reason when I define Pike as a sex tourist you and others start trying to tell me in the end its not awfully bad. I never judged the guy. Just defined him like any literate person would. If you disagree with the definition take it up with webster.

[BC]

If you don't like the term sex tourist... lets go with traveling man who has sex with a lot of different women including those just for casual sex purposes. I think its easier to go with a shorter term personally.

Now that makes it an almost enviable endeavour..

[BC]

If you disagree with the definition take it up with webster.

Hey.. just relating my experiences.. just like Pike is..  nothing more, nothing less.

[topofthekey]

Hey.. just relating my experiences.. just like Pike is..  nothing more, nothing less.

I know. My experience is that sex early on in the relationship can cloud the mind. When I was in Tallinn I tried to stay on track because with the girls I was running into it would have been easy to get off track.

Regardless of what I think is the best way to go about international dating we should all be able to agree on what we can find in the dicitionary evem if we may not like some of the connotations of that word. I am WMVM but far different from Pike. Since this website attracts a lot of guys interested in finding a relationship with a woman overseas... hopefully they will be able to distingush the difference from being just WMVM and what Pike is. They are adults so what path they decide on is up to them. But you can be WMVM and not be what Pike is.

[Pike]

ARRIVAL

WARNING.  This is a Write Many Visit Many (WMVM) Trip Report.  If this type of visit with FSU ladies repulses you, then do not read further.

WARNING.  This trip report discusses adult relationships.  If you do not think it is appropriate to post such and/or if you do not like to read such, then do not read further.

If you know you will be disgusted from reading such, then don’t read further and then make a fool of yourself by telling that you were disgusted after reading something that you were warned would disgust you.

I know that many men here have little or zero interest in sex and thus don’t like to read about it.  Not wanting to hear or read about something we don’t like is normal.  I don’t like to read about or talk about golf, but rather than complain when someone brings it up in a social context, I just move on to the next group of people.

- - - - - - - - - -

I travel from USA to a city in Western Europe and have a couple of days of business meetings.  Then I fly on to the FSU city.  I am not identifying the city, and I am randomizing the names of the gals I meet in that city.  This is to avoid drawing unwarranted attention to any of the gals.

LTG Anna meets me at the airport and we head off in her very nice car.  In other threads I have spoken of the problems myself and others have had from using ATM machines in the FSU.  For this city, I had an easy solution.  I wire transferred several thousand dollars from my bank account to Anna’s bank account.  I trust her completely; she and her family have entrusted large amounts of money to me in the USA on occasion.  She has already withdrawn a sum of money in the local currency and hands it to me.  Other amounts will be provided to me as needed.  She also gives me a SIM chip to put in my quad band mobile phone.

Two of the companies involved in the Consortium that I work for have recently purchased two apartment units in this city.  The units are in a building across from the back side of a prestigious hotel a few blocks from the very center of town.  Not sure if it is 4 or 5 star hotel.  Each of the units consists of three rooms (the way they count them), plus kitchen and bathroom.  This is not a new building, but most of the units (including these 2) have been renovated to Euro standards.  Pretty nice, but not over-the-top luxurious.  A metro station is one block from the hotel and busses run regularly in front of the hotel.

Through previous arrangement, Anna has already obtained the keys to the apartment.  She is impressed with the interior, as she had complained that I stay in places that are not quite nice enough.  But she says, wait till you see the renovation of my apartment.

A team member is already occupying one of the units, and another member has just recently vacated the unit that I will be occupying.  The pantry and refrigerator already have a lot of the basics, so I will only need to get some fresh milk, bread, eggs, ham, etc.  There is a 24/7 western style supermarket 2 blocks away and a plethora of nearby restaurants.  Maid service is on call 24/7.

I mention going to the supermarket; but Anna nixes that idea.  She says, choose the bedroom you are going to use while I take a quick shower.  I said, you are getting sort of pushy . . . what about my jet lag.  She says, what jet lag . . . you only had a two hour flight.  I say, yes but it was on a jet.  She laughs but says, we don’t have much time as I have to get back to work.

Afterward I ask her what was the rush.  She said her period would be starting any day and she was also afraid I would be too tired for her later after all the other gals.  I said, maybe no other gals would be interested in me.  She just laughed. 

I had told Anna in previous e-mails about crotchless panties for women, and she asked me to bring her a pair.  So now I handed her a pair of black ones.  She laughed and said, how do these work, there are too many holes (4 compared to the normal 3).  I said, look at the tag that is in the back and figure it out.  I said, put them on and wear to work.  She said, Oh no, I think I better wait for another time for that.

For those interested, go to:
http://www.funkyboutique.com/stthdg12.html
Item DG 1300  Open crotch panties.

Item RY 1905-S  Crotchless pantyhose are also available at:
http://www.funkyboutique.com/hosecrotchless.html

The panties are a very high demand item and don’t stay in stock very long, so plan ahead . . . like three months in advance.  I brought a dozen of them with me to give to some of the gals.

As she was leaving Anna said, Victor wants to take you to dinner soon and talk with you about the International Economic situation.  Victor is her brother-in-law.  We tentatively plan for the 3rd day out.  Anna says that she, and maybe some others, will be there also.  She will pick me up.

Anna makes sure I know how to use all the apartment keys and then drives me to the nearby supermarket.  I already know I will have no problems there (from phone talks with the other team members who have been in this store before) so Anna feels safe in leaving me at the entrance and driving off.

Back in the apartment, I call Andy who is staying in the other apartment.  He will be back in a couple of hours and will bring me up to speed on the business front.

So now I unpack, and then get out my list of gals and start calling to reconfirm some of my earliest planned meetings.  The first meeting will be tomorrow around 2 PM.  The time table for most every day will be business meetings until 1:30 PM or so, and then time with the gals the rest of the afternoon and evening . . . depending on the gal. 

I am a consultant, not an employee.  My skills are very specific and rare; thus I can call the shots as to where and when I will meet with anyone for business.  And, no I do not drink during business and I will not go night clubbing.  Everyone I will meet with has been warned that I cannot be pushed into anything, and will simply tell them to go fock themselves and walk out.  They need me; I don’t need them.

[Faux Pas]

I don't disagree and I hold the opinion that women that are looking for more than what Pike is really offering should know better... I was just defining what Pike is doing.

You put the words... immoral, bad man, and sex tourist all in the same sentence. If Pike was doing what some of my friends do by having a bunch of sex buddies and meeting some on craigslist you'd call them a player or man whore. All I'm doing is adding in the travel part to the definition. If you equate morality and being a bad person with casual sex with a lot of different women then thats your definition. I just defined what Pike is doing... I never judged him.

If you don't like the term sex tourist... lets go with traveling man who has sex with a lot of different women including those just for casual sex purposes. I think its easier to go with a shorter term personally.

Top you're being intellectually dishonest here and attempting to attribute something to me I didn't say. Please don't try to put words in my mouth. Other posters throughout the forum have accused Pike all of those and more. It wasn't me. I have made no mention of casual sex with anything. You seem to be hiding behind Webster's definition of sex tourist and I don't believe it applies here. A sex tourist would be one traveling to a destination for the sole purpose of sex. My understanding from his TR's is, he travels for business and meeting women, he has sex along the way. I've done that in different venues most of my life. I don't consider this a sex tourist.

Using Mr. Webster's definition would easily apply to a pedophile. Using it the way you are would apply to anyone that travels a block away to meet someone and happen to have sex while they are there. That would make 90% of the worlds population a sex tourist.

[Pike]

Mira 1.  43 years old, five feet five, 115 pounds, medium length brown hair, professional musician (violin), two teenage children.

My first date was with Mira, not because she was highest on my list, but rather because she seemed to be a quiet, pleasant gal, and I wanted to ease my way into the visit.  It proved to be a mixed engagement . . . pleasant gal, depressing situation.

I had some trouble in making contact with Mira the evening before.  She didn’t have a mobile phone, nor a phone in her own apartment.  Rather she shared a hallway phone.  So naturally someone else first answered who had no English ability.  However, I was finally able to get the name understood and Mira came on the line.  But then the line went dead, so I had to start over again.  Then, I could hear her but she could barely hear me.  She seemed to be cursing out the phone thinking that I didn’t hear; but then I don’t know Russian curse words anyway.  Finally, on the third try, I was able to confirm with her the where and when, which had already been sent to her via e-mail.

We met in the lobby of the nice hotel across from my apartment at 2 PM.  She was the type of person that no one would ever notice as she just seemed to blend into the background.  Not beautiful and not ugly.  Rather plain looking clothes that disguised her body shape.

Initially, she would come across on first impression as perhaps nervous, but that didn’t prove to be the case.  She was just quiet with a slight smile and never showed much emotion or change in her demeanor, no matter what.  She seemed to have good English comprehension and speaking skills, but always talked slowly and softly.

We went to a nearby restaurant and she said that she had only been to restaurants 2 or 3 times her entire life.  Seemed to not know much about looking at menus, so I was gentle with her and helped read with her down the listing.  I sat beside her with my English menu while she had the Russian version.  She still seemed to not be able to choose anything, so I said why don’t you try such and I will try another such, and then we can share.  She smiled softly and spoke softly that, it would be a fine idea.

She continually smiled during the meal, but said very little.  She answered all of my questions, but never asked me anything.  After the meal, I asked her what she wanted to do.  I suggested some musical, ballet, etc.  She said, Isn’t your apartment nearby?  I said, yes.  So why don’t we go there and rest, she said.  And we did.

Mira was in a very sad situation in that she was truly a ‘person without a country.’  She had been born in one of the Soviet satellite countries of mixed nationality parentage.  Her parents had moved among the various countries, and then she and her then husband had made more moves.  She said her passport from one of the countries was now expired and she had been refused a passport renewal by that country’s embassy because her nationality didn’t actually match with that country.

She knew not when she might be forced out of this country.  Plus, she was teaching at a local elementary school and they knew of her expired passport.  They seemed to value her, but she thought someone would surely try to take advantage of her situation at some point by cutting her pay, turning her into the authorities, etc.  She also played in various orchestras, but earned very little for those engagements.

I asked her if she wanted to listen to some music.  She said, sure why not.  I asked her if she wanted to dance.  She said, sure why not. I had the distinct impression that if I said, do you want to strip naked, stand on your head and spread your legs, she would say, sure why not.  She smiled at everything, but there was never any electricity.  She would do anything I wanted . . . but I had not the want.

We sat on the sofa and I put my arm around her.  She melted into my shoulder but it felt more like my cousin to me than a romantic woman.  A very pliable, but yet cold woman.  I think her problems had just drained her of everything.

Yes, of course, she was looking for a way out of her situation.  I felt very, very sorry for her.  But we cannot be the savior of all the women who are in such circumstances.

I had the entire evening free, but I saw nothing possible for our future.  So I said, let’s go get some coffee and cake, and put you on the bus.  She smiled, but I figured she was thinking she was going to be put on an ice floe.

I kissed her on the cheek as the bus arrived.  She asked, will we meet again.  I replied, we will have to see how our schedules work out.

[Gator]

Pike,

Small world.

From your past posts I was able to ascertain that you went to Dnepropetrovsk for a long trip.  I have also been to Dnepro and it seems our paths crossed.

In Dnepro in 2005 I met a violin teacher, 5’5”, 110-115 lbs, brown hair, with two teenage boys.  Sounds exactly like your Maria, especially since she is now 44 (birthday a couple of months ago).  It seems too much of a coincidence not to be the same woman.

There are differences, however, from the woman you described.  She was not the insipid and sad woman you described but almost zestful, for sure sensual, intelligent, and confident.  Religious too.  Our meeting was only one hour long and she made it known in a demonstrative manner that she was interested in me when she stepped forward to me at our parting and gave me a tender kiss (nice soft lips). 

We never met again.  I wrote her once a long time later and learned that she had connected with a UM whom she helped when he was ill.  Here is the kicker - she was listed with marriage agencies and was serious about marriage. 

Tell me the two are the same.

[Gator]

I know that many men here have little or zero interest in sex and thus don’t like to read about it.  Not wanting to hear or read about something we don’t like is normal. 

What does this mean?  Do you mean no interest in having sex as if we were celibate or emasculated.  Or no interest in reading about sex as you present it?

[Misha]

Other posters throughout the forum have accused Pike all of those and more.

If you are referring to me, my original comment that started the sex tourism thing was that it is sometimes not surprising that women interpret the behavior of men as "sex tourism." We can talk all we want about how WE define it, but that does not mean the women of the FSU see it in the same way.

[Faux Pas]

If you are referring to me, my original comment that started the sex tourism thing was that it is sometimes not surprising that women interpret the behavior of men as "sex tourism." We can talk all we want about how WE define it, but that does not mean the women of the FSU see it in the same way.

Misha, Pike has been referred to as lot of things on this forum both in his TRs and other threads as well. You have made it abundantly clear from your posts on where you stand on his methods both in principle and practice. No I wasn't referring to you directly but if it pleases you then yes, I will refer to you.

FSU is a very big place. When you refer to "the women of FSU" what is it you are referring to? Moscow region? Ukraine? Siberia? Other former satelite countries? Ladies you personally know? 50% of the population or what? Misha you have impressed me as someone with a wealth of knowledge on the FSU but that doesn't allow you to speak for the women of the FSU. If I remember correctly you are married to a lady from the FSU. This hardly qualifies you to speak for the entire female gender of FSU. If these women are repulsed by Pikes alleged sex tourism then they can show it by not going out with him.

I am not attempting to redefine sex tourism. I just stated what I would define as a sex tourist. There are as many different avenues to sex as there are people who have it. My point is, because it isn't your avenue doesn't necessarily make it wrong or him a sex tourist. I stated up thread what I thought of his methods and they are a complete 180 from mine

[Ade]

If I were to choose to believe Pike's story even including the fully informed and consenting women and his business on the side, I'd still rank him in with the sex tourists.

I pity his need to sleep with so many women though; particularly at his age and I would certainly think there's a possibility of some deep psychological issues there just because of that. But then I've never found casual sex with little or no emotional connection to be at all fulfilling and have always preferred and sought after long term relationships rather than quick one nighter pokes.

And no, I'm not offended by you Pike (assuming you've been truthful about not misleading women) or even jealous (what's there to be jealous of exactly?) but I do find you more than a little sad.

Also Pike, given all the nasty diseases around these days, better your plonker than mine.

[topofthekey]

If I were to choose to believe Pike's story even including the fully informed and consenting women and his business on the side, I'd still rank him in with the sex tourists.

Yep I'm noticing some posters wanting to use a narrow definition of sex tourist. Meaning if you are doing anything else on your trip then you can't be a sex tourist. So if I do any shopping in Bangkok or on occasion do business there I can't be a sex tourist.

The easy way to handle this is to email a few college professors whose research or classes taught are on a subject like this- then ask them after reading this thread if they'd classify Pike as a sex tourist.

[Admin]

Yep I'm noticing some posters wanting to use a narrow definition of sex tourist. Meaning if you are doing anything else on your trip then you can't be a sex tourist. So if I do any shopping in Bangkok or on occasion do business there I can't be a sex tourist.

The easy way to handle this is to email a few college professors whose research or classes taught are on a subject like this- then ask them after reading this thread if they'd classify Pike as a sex tourist.

Just in case anyone is interested, the subject of defining a "sex tourist" has (not surprisingly) been addressed here previously. Here are a couple of links for reference:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1264.msg26982#msg26982

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5214.msg91008#msg91008

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6100.msg110563#msg110563

And finally, as you all probably know Wikipedia is a community effort and anyone (normally) can make edits to their entries. As a consequence, it is NOT what one can refer to as a formal accepted definition by authorities, but it does normally seem to be the consensus of opinion by most. Here is their page to describe "sex tourism" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_tourism.

Note the explicit reference to "prostitution".

It is my opinion that the label of "sex tourist" is one that is thrown around here at RWD a bit too loosely. It has been applied, as a pejorative term, to Pike in the past - whether accurate or not. I remain interested in finding a rock-solid definition so that we can use that definition contextually when it again surfaces here at RWD.

FWIW

- Dan

[vwrw]

Indeed, it is small world!

Gator, do you still have her e-mail address?  It would be very interesting to learn what she has to say about her communication with Pike.

[William3rd]

Adult sex tourism
Adult sex tourism (AST), which is unrelated to Child sex tourism (CST), is travel to engage in a sexual activity with consenting adults or paid prostitutes. International adult sex tourism is the term applied when the traveler crosses national borders for these purposes.

Adult sex tourism is a multibillion dollar industry that supports an international workforce estimated to number in the millions. [27] Adult sex tourism has been viewed by some people (probably the sex tourists) as benefitting not only the sex work industry but the airline, taxi, restaurant, and hotel industries.

and then there is adult sex toursim under false pretenses. . .  couldnt find that listing on Wiki. . . .

[GoodOlBoy]

It would be very interesting to learn what she has to say about her communication with Pike.

It would also be interesting to find out how she feels about Pike's discussion/description of their relationship on the INTERNET.

Now everybody in the world can read about her (including her 2 teenage sons). Nice. 

[Misha]

FSU is a very big place. When you refer to "the women of FSU" what is it you are referring to? Moscow region? Ukraine? Siberia? Other former satelite countries? Ladies you personally know? 50% of the population or what? Misha you have impressed me as someone with a wealth of knowledge on the FSU but that doesn't allow you to speak for the women of the FSU.

Faux Pas, at no point did I make the claim that "all of the women of the FSU" have one definition of sex tourism. I gave one personal example where I encountered the term to demonstrate that it is a term that is used far from the narrow confines of agencies and women from agencies. Using this example, I demonstrated that some women in the FSU certainly define sex tourism as men going to the FSU for sex with consenting women 18 years or older, women who are not prostitutes.

If you want to get an idea of how some women from the FSU define sex tourism, I would suggest going to a site such as antidate.org and doing a search for the term "секс туризм" as it produces some 30-odd threads. True, they are not representative of "all of the women of the FSU" but it will give you an idea of what some of the women think.  

My main point remains: decent and ethical behavior requires more than a legalistic approach to things. Yes, some men may not be breaking any laws, but I wonder about the women they leave behind and what they must be feeling. Is Ambach's case, I wondered about his "fiancée" and whether she got hurt in the process, and in Pike's case I do wonder whether any of the 100 women were also hurt or disappointed in the process. He says no (I wouldn't expect otherwise), but that is only one side of the story of course.

Also, in the same way that scammers and GCG give a bad reputation to all FSU women, men traipsing off to the FSU and treating decent women in a cavalier manner do and will give a bad reputation to all WM.

[GoodOlBoy]

Ambach's case, I wondered about his "fiancée" and whether she got hurt in the process, and in Pike's case I do wonder whether any of the 100 women were also hurt or disappointed in the process..........treating decent women in a cavalier manner do and will give a bad reputation to all WM.

Misha I agree with your statement.

Except, I don't wonder about it. I feel absolutely sure that these two men and other's like them, are going to continue mucking up the FSU for serious WM who are truly looking for a wife.

And be assured, they will continue to spread their seeds all over the FSU with their own twisted reasonings why it is OK to do so.

I am just sorry that this forum and other RW forum's provided them the blueprint/information to successfully do so.

[BC]

Instead of mucking up Pike's TR, why don't we ask that this sex tourism discussion be moved to another thread?

Nay's Ye's?

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas, at no point did I make the claim that "all of the women of the FSU" have one definition of sex tourism. I gave one personal example where I encountered the term to demonstrate that it is a term that is used far from the narrow confines of agencies and women from agencies. Using this example, I demonstrated that some women in the FSU certainly define sex tourism as men going to the FSU for sex with consenting women 18 years or older, women who are not prostitutes.

If you want to get an idea of how some women from the FSU define sex tourism, I would suggest going to a site such as antidate.org and doing a search for the term "секс туризм" as it produces some 30-odd threads. True, they are not representative of "all of the women of the FSU" but it will give you an idea of what some of the women think.  

My main point remains: decent and ethical behavior requires more than a legalistic approach to things. Yes, some men may not be breaking any laws, but I wonder about the women they leave behind and what they must be feeling. Is Ambach's case, I wondered about his "fiancée" and whether she got hurt in the process, and in Pike's case I do wonder whether any of the 100 women were also hurt or disappointed in the process. He says no (I wouldn't expect otherwise), but that is only one side of the story of course.

Also, in the same way that scammers and GCG give a bad reputation to all FSU women, men traipsing off to the FSU and treating decent women in a cavalier manner do and will give a bad reputation to all WM.

Misha, we are really not that far apart on the "idea" of sex tourism. The definition seems to be pretty broad according to some on the board but not for me. I know nothing of anti-date as I don't read Cyrillic. I did look at the site a couple of years ago and after some discussion with those who could read and understand it, concluded it was a venomous discussion board comprised mostly of FSU ladies with an axe to grind. Much like some of the scammer sites and threads. Those people may have just cause for what they state I really don't know nor concern myself with. I am an honorable with honorable intentions who tends to speak his mind whether it is with the winds of favor or not.

Certainly I feel compassion for  victims of sex tourism. You added at the end of your post " but that does not mean the women of the FSU see it in the same way" which was the reason for my question to you. I don't view ambach's lady or the ladies of Pike, "victims". I have no information that leads me to believe that they are. Most of the women I have met in Russia (which  admittedly, probably a comparatively small number to those you know) are not the frail, meek and weak personalities that you seem to be speaking for. They are in fact sharp-minded and strong-willed, and like their counterparts in America and the rest of the world, decide when and with whom they will have sex. Often being the aggressor, as was the case with ambach.

I don't subscribe to the belief that having sex with a woman means a lifetime commitment. I do believe it sacred in the bonds of matrimony but, outside of marriage it is something that people do, both male and female. It appears to me that the discussion of Pike and ambach boils down to ones personal view of morality. I live by my code of morality because I believe it to be right for me. But I don't believe in imposing that code on you or Pike or whomever.

[Misha]

You added at the end of your post " but that does not mean the women of the FSU see it in the same way" which was the reason for my question to you. I don't view ambach's lady or the ladies of Pike, "victims". I have no information that leads me to believe that they are.

Yes, but what information do we have? The information provided by Ambach and Pike  Of course, they will present themselves in a favorable light. I am just saying that the women in question may have a different point of view, and it is unlikely we will ever hear that point of view.

Most of the women I have met in Russia (which  admittedly, probably a comparatively small number to those you know) are not the frail, meek and weak personalities that you seem to be speaking for. They are in fact sharp-minded and strong-willed, and like their counterparts in America and the rest of the world, decide when and with whom they will have sex.

I agree that they are not all frail, meek and weak. However, so are naive (much like many of the men in the MOB game) and some of these women certainly do get hurt. I encourage you to read Mendeleyev's account:

A couple of years ago a Western man was writing one of my wife's female cousins from Volgograd.  She was so excited about the prospects and they begin to speak on the telephone once each week.  At about the 2 month point he called her with the unexpected news that he would be in Leningrad for the week.  It was some sort of a business trip.

Immediately all the women in the family were calling each other on the telephone.  My wife and mother in Moscow were talking to relatives in Shakhty and Kaluga.  The women from Kaluga were on the telephone to Volgograd. It was such an event! 

But when on the next conversation she asked if he would come to Volgograd to meet her parents and family, not enough time was the answer.  She was disappointed but he asked her to come to him.  Okay, where to stay, was her question.  With me in my hotel room, and bring some sexy lingerie, came the answer.

She was crushed.  Not even to meet the first time and bring the lingerie and stay in a hotel like a prostitute!  All the ladies immediately hated Americans.  This man took a young woman's heart and broke it to pieces.  She wanted to be a wife, not a whore for the weekend.  A man may think such a girl feels nothing, but he is the fool. 

I don't subscribe to the belief that having sex with a woman means a lifetime commitment. I do believe it sacred in the bonds of matrimony but, outside of marriage it is something that people do, both male and female.

I agree, but why don't the men stay in their countries' and have sex to their heart's content  :evil: Like it or not, I still contend that when you go to another country your actions are those of an "ambassador" of your country.

It appears to me that the discussion of Pike and ambach boils down to ones personal view of morality. I live by my code of morality because I believe it to be right for me. But I don't believe in imposing that code on you or Pike or whomever.

Fine, using your logic, I should not impose my ethical codes and personal views on scammers, pro-daters and GCG. They are also behaving according to their personal codes, so what they are doing is perfectly acceptable 

[GoodOlBoy]

I still contend that when you go to another country your actions are those of an "ambassador" of your country.

 

[AnastassiaAsh]

Yeah, would be nice if this thread was moved to Anything Goes...

[Faux Pas]

Yes, but what information do we have? The information provided by Ambach and Pike  Of course, they will present themselves in a favorable light. I am just saying that the women in question may have a different point of view, and it is unlikely we will ever hear that point of view.
 

Unless those ladies join this forum you are most likely correct. However, Pike and ambach are members. What do they have to gain by fabricating stories to post here? I realize this is the internet and for the most part anonymous. People do many outlandish things and make some crazy statements. Are you implying they are being less than truthful? Then why not call them a liar and move on?

I agree that they are not all frail, meek and weak. However, so are naive (much like many of the men in the MOB game) and some of these women certainly do get hurt. I encourage you to read Mendeleyev's account:

I read Mendeleyev's account and completely agree, the man is despicable. This isn't the situation with either Pike or ambach. Why be accusatory and blame them for that mans actions? Because they are all American?

I agree, but why don't the men stay in their countries' and have sex to their heart's content  :evil: Like it or not, I still contend that when you go to another country your actions are those of an "ambassador" of your country.

That question is just too lazy to answer. Why is the sky blue? I contend people will have sex no matter where they are at. Sex tourism is wrong and in my mind requires a sick individual. Pike nor ambachs admitted actions on this board do not constitute sex tourism IMHO. Borrowing a line from Sculpto "I'll give you an example" I know 3 Czechs that work for a friend of mine. They are in this country on work visa's 8 months out of the year. During those 8 months they are dating and having sex with different women. Are they Czech workers, average males or sex tourists?

Fine, using your logic, I should not impose my ethical codes and personal views on scammers, pro-daters and GCG. They are also behaving according to their personal codes, so what they are doing is perfectly acceptable 

Well you have got me here. Would I impose my ethics and views on scammers? No. But I wouldn't on anyone else either