My Last WMVM Trip to FSU

[Pike]

WARNING.  This is a Write Many Visit Many (WMVM) Trip Report.  If this type of visit with FSU ladies repulses you, then do not read further.

WARNING.  This trip report discusses adult relationships.  If you do not think it is appropriate to post such and/or if you do not like to read such, then do not read further.

If you know you will be disgusted from reading such, then don’t read further and then make a fool of yourself by telling that you were disgusted after reading something that you were warned would disgust you.

I know that many men here have little or zero interest in sex and thus don’t like to read about it.  Not wanting to hear or read about something we don’t like is normal.  I don’t like to read about or talk about golf, but rather than complain when someone brings it up in a social context, I just move on to the next group of people.

[Pike]

BACKGROUND:

I am a mid-50s guy, 6 feet tall, 180 pounds, not handsome but not ugly, good body, with all my hair and sparkling white teeth.  I was married in my teens and had a good marriage for over 30 years which produced two wonderful children who are now married adults with good educations and careers.  Grandchildren are planned.  I have several University degrees  and had a successful career wherein I was lucky to make enough money on IPOs to retire from full time work before I was 50.  I am still involved part-time in various real estate development and other ventures in the USA.

As a favor for those who included me in the IPOs, several years ago I agreed to take trips to the FSU and other countries to help evaluate business situations as potential investments for world diversified portfolios.  I do not need to do this for the money, but I decided to do it and use the money earned to pre-fund the college educations of 4 planned (latest estimate) grandchildren.  Currently, the costs for an Ivy League or equivalent education are about $50,000 per year.  So I am working toward the goal of accumulating nearly 1 million dollars for this purpose alone, aside from my considerable estate.  I am about three quarters of the way there.

I have been to FSU over 20 times and usually stay several weeks.  My time on the ground in FSU is nearing two years.  The Consortium that I work for wants me to stay in FSU full-time but I have refused to do that because of my family and my business ventures in the USA. 

I have associated with hundreds of FSU businessmen and business women, and have dated hundreds of FSU women who are mostly in the age range of 35 to 50.  I have lived with several of the FSU women for weeks at a time in their hometowns and at vacation spots in the Mediterranean area.

I do not go on wife hunting trips.  I happen to think, like KenC, BC and other long term married men have said here, that wife hunting is a rather strange concept.  The standard procedure for normal men is to seek dates, not marriage.  I like women.  I date women everywhere.  There just happen to be more available in FSU than most anywhere else who match up with most of my criteria.

If I find the right woman, I am open to getting married but I have no felt need to fill a ‘wife vacancy’ or to shop for a wife like a refrigerator or a new digital TV.  She might be in the FSU, across the street from one of my residences in the USA, in Timbuktu, or where ever.

I don't promise anything or mislead these women at all.  There is no need to promise women anything.  They are all willing participants without need for promises.  All the women that I met are on dating sites such as Lucky Lovers, not at marriage agencies.  They check off boxes as to purpose of registration including long term relationships, short term relationships, fun, travel, flirt, erotic chats, etc.  If a woman has only checked the marriage box, then I do not contact her.

I have continuing relationships with several Long-Term Girlfriends (LTG) in various FSU cities.  None of these ladies are pushing for marriage and several have let it be known that they, in fact, are opposed to marrying anyone. 

The typical story is something like: Woman works hard to support the family, much trouble with husband who is unemployed after breakup of FSU and who becomes alcoholic, woman finally rids herself of husband, finds means to buy own apartment, does not want to risk losing partial ownership of apartment to another husband, has good career with increasing earnings and no desire to leave this job, etc.  Most of my LTG have said they would be very happy to have me come and live with them, but they are not interested in marriage or moving from their cities.  None of them know of my wealth.  Marriage is a very good idea for those wanting to raise children but, just as is the trend here in the USA, many FSU women who already have children don’t view marriage as a necessity.

When I ask a woman for date in USA or elsewhere, I do not first say:  "I am not promising to marry you if we go on a date."  I do not first tell them: "I am a normal guy who likes sex."  In short, I do not say any of the stupid things that many people think you should first tell a woman in FSU at first contact.  I have never and will never contact a woman at a marriage agency.

Some say that it is disrespecting the women to have sex with her . . . but that is to disrespect and disbelieve the idea that women also have sexual urges.  This is the 21st Century.  Women are allowed to choose and seek all forms of happiness and pleasure, and I am happy for them.  They don’t need to be seduced, conquered, promised, or any other such nonsensical concepts.  In fact, I really mostly don’t even try anymore.  I just continue to be my charming self and wait for the woman to give clear indications.  That passive approach wouldn’t have worked when I was a teenager, but it sure works in the 21st Century with women 35-50.

Others claim that I brag in my posts . . . however, this merely reflects on the reader’s frame of reference.  For those who are getting none or little, yes I can understand your viewpoint and frustration.  For others, my numbers would look pretty trivial.  Wilt reportedly was up to 10,000.  Sculpto noted in another thread about some African men who were up in the thousands.  A few years back I saw on news that in the Netherlands officials were tracking down VD cases.  A woman gave the name of a man.  They asked the man to name his sex partners for the past 60 days or so.  He gave a list of 37 or so. 

I have nothing to brag about and do not seek to do so.  I have only mentioned my numbers so that newbies can have a frame of reference when they compare my words to others here who are experts based on having finally held the gal’s hand after a week or so, or became engaged to the first FSU woman they met.

WMVM vs WOVO, This topic has been discussed at length in many threads.  Are the women on the receiving end of WMVM happy about it?  Of course not.  Do we need to ask them to know this?  Of course not.  Would a man on receiving end of WMVM be happy about it?  Of course not. 

A favorite tactic of some members here is to make some judgement about another poster and then authoritatively proclaim: “If he doesn’t seek to refute this idea, then it must be true.”  When the bible carriers knock on my door, do I invite them in to discuss our differences?  No, I do not.  When those with different political views try to engage me in debate, do I engage them?  No, I do not.  Will I continually respond to those who don't like what I do or what I write, or make unfounded remarks?  No, I will not.

[GoodOlBoy]

Grandchildren are planned.

I am REPULSED future Grandpa.

I can only pray that one day your D*ck falls off before you ruin the FSU for everybody else. 

[vwrw]

Do you become bored with FSUW’s mentality?…Why  this trip will be last? 

[vwrw]

I was married in my teens and had a good marriage for over 30 years which produced two wonderful children who are now married adults with good educations and careers. 

Did your ex-wife died or did she get divorced with you?
 

If I find the right woman, I am open to getting married but I have no felt need to fill a ‘wife vacancy’ or to shop for a wife like a refrigerator or a new digital TV. 

Can you describe the right woman for you?

[Jack]

WARNING.  This trip report discusses adult relationships.  If you do not think it is appropriate to post such and/or if you do not like to read such, then do not read further.

If you know you will be disgusted from reading such, then don’t read further and then make a fool of yourself by telling that you were disgusted after reading something that you were warned would disgust you.

I am REPULSED future Grandpa.
I can only pray that one day your D*ck falls off before you ruin the FSU for everybody else. 

hey GoodOlBoy, ...."If you know you will be disgusted from reading such, then don’t read further and then make a fool of yourself by telling that you were disgusted after reading something that you were warned would disgust you".....


I guess you can't read or do not take the poster's request serious.
I would think if such a post repulse's so much you will not be reading this thread any further.

[Gator]

I am REPULSED future Grandpa.

I can only pray that one day your D*ck falls off before you ruin the FSU for everybody else. 

GoodOlBoy,

What do find repulsive?  He broke no laws.

I lived Pike's life when I was 35, did it for two years, then realized I wanted more.  I imagine that you have done the same.  Just because he does it in his geriatric years and for a prolonged period are no reasons to criticize.

So where do I have a problem.  I dated the same age group as Pike in the FSU, actually it was 27-47 yo.  I met no woman who did not want to marry.  Yes, they were interested in sex and certainly wanted their needs satisfied (and some were very adventurous), yet their goal remained to marry as part of starting a brand new life.  And many of the women I met would have checked friendship as well as marriage in their Internet listing.  I agree that they wanted to go slow and take their time, yet they still wanted to be married to the right man.

So this is where I disagree with Pike, particularly his claiming that so many RW did not want to marry but instead were seeking someone to diddle them on the public bus.  There are plenty of RM who will do the same, RM in their age group.  So why the need to date an older AM?  Pike, that question deserves an answer.

Pike's description of his FSUW reminds me of a few AW who have given up on marriage and are going through some sort of renewed sexual discovery.   Such women are in America and are not much fun after a week or two.  So maybe that is why Pike leaves them.

Personally, I feel that sex is far better when the two of you are emotionally involved. Someone else may disagree, and evidently Pike is one of them.  Or maybe he has a wall that a woman can not break through.  I have no idea, yet I find it difficult that a man could bed 100 women and not have found one of them deserving an exclusive relationship.

[kievstar]

I think good start but photos would be good with some of your ladies. 

[Misha]

I have been to FSU over 20 times and usually stay several weeks.  My time on the ground in FSU is nearing two years. 

Several weeks: let's say an average of 20 days. So, 20 trips for 20 days gives us 400 days. In that time you have:

have dated hundreds of FSU women who are mostly in the age range of 35 to 50.  I have lived with several of the FSU women for weeks at a time in their hometowns and at vacation spots in the Mediterranean area.

I don't promise anything or mislead these women at all.  There is no need to promise women anything.  They are all willing participants without need for promises.  All the women that I met are on dating sites such as Lucky Lovers, not at marriage agencies. 

I have continuing relationships with several Long-Term Girlfriends (LTG) in various FSU cities.  

In my experience, it is rare to find a woman who will sleep with you on the first date (even if she is attracted to you). Then, there will be women that won't want to sleep with you (lack of chemistry) and women that won't be of interest to you.

So, I am expected to believe that an American, in his 50s, somehow in 400 days managed to find hundreds of women to date, sleep with 100 (or is it 200) which comes out to one new woman every 2nd or 4th day and somehow he managed to maintain a relationship with several Long-Term Girlfriends in various FSU cities? Sorry, it doesn't add up for me. I can't see women in Russia throwing themselves into the bed of a much older American man they just met just because they want to indulge themselves in some short-term loving when there are more than enough Russian men much younger more than happy to provide no-strings-attached sex.

Sorry for being the skeptic, but this is the internet after all where all can post anything anonymously to boost their egos.

Most of my LTG have said they would be very happy to have me come and live with them, but they are not interested in marriage or moving from their cities. 

And, I presume that none of your LTG's object to you having other LTG's and lovers? Jealousy is not the unique preserve of men IMHO Maybe some women don't see marriage as a necessity, but I haven't met many women willing to "share" their lover 
 

Others claim that I brag in my posts . . . however, this merely reflects on the reader’s frame of reference.

Some might call it "bragging," I would say more than likely stretching the truth to boost one's ego. But, as noted, I do not take everything I read on the internet at face value.

[kievstar]

I will believe him more if he posts pictures or at least himself.  Not buying the businessman he knows in FSU.  But pictures speak a thousand words.

[Misha]

I will believe him more if he posts pictures or at least himself.  Not buying the businessman he knows in FSU.  But pictures speak a thousand words.

That is right, I forgot about how Pike has "associated with hundreds of FSU businessmen." Of course, associating with hundred of FSU businessmen also requires a pretty large investment of time and some pretty intensive drinking of vodka in my experience.  So, Pike in his 400 days, dated hundreds of women, bedded at least 100 AND found the time to "associated" with hundreds of FSU businessmen. I wonder whether he got any sleep in those 400 days LOL.

[Pike]

PROCEDURES:

I did not contact women at a marriage agency, and have never done so.

There are many sound ‘rules’ to be followed in preparation for a WMVM.  These rules are not stated in one place, but by reading the various forums one can come up with a list of those which seem most appropriate to the individual.  Jack probably has done more than anyone to spell out some of the ‘rules’ but I don’t have URL references to his postings.

My previous experiences have inculcated in me that this is a numbers game (for the party that must do the traveling) and the need to ‘cast a very big net.’  This is not in terms of physical location, but in terms of the number of gals for initial contacts.  The resulting number of viable candidates will be very small compared to the initial contacts that
must be made.

The physical area of the search must be narrow.  The time lost in
traveling between cities simply dictates a narrow geographic area.

English skills are a must.  If the English skills are not there,
the gal must be eliminated, regardless of her beauty.  This is a very hard
rule to stick to, but the results will likely be disastrous otherwise. 

The overall education level is also very important.  Upon meeting, the
gals are just as likely to be repulsed by an 'over educated' or 'over dressed'
man, as they are by a man in the exactly opposite category.  This doesn't
mean that the two must have exactly equivalent educations, but any man
with an advanced university degree should not even consider a gal without
at least a bachelors degree.

Establish some parameters for characteristics that must be present, and try your best to stick with them.  These are such things as the English and education mentioned above, along with age range, existing children, previous marriages, range of heights and associated weights, hobbies, sports, etc.  Myself, I don’t care about eye and hair color, but that might be important to some.  For me, height is very important along with appropriate weight for that height.  This is more important to me than facial beauty.

On previous WMVM trips I have contacted gals between 35 - 50 years of age.  I actually wanted to stay with 40 - 50 but usually had to drop to 35 to make enough contacts.  However, for this trip I had a feeling that I could stick with the 40 - 50 age grouping because of some help I would be getting from two FSU gals (that I will discuss below), and I was right.

I joined several dating sites (such as Lucky Lovers) that had monthly memberships for unlimited contact and others (such as Free Russian Personals) that were no cost.  I filled out the blocks on the Search Engine listing the city, age range, height and weight, etc.

First,  I looked at the ‘Purpose’ listing for each of the gals.  On the LL site is listed Marriage, LT Relationship, ST Relationship, Fun, Traveling, Penpal, Friendship and Online Chat.  If a gal had checked only the Marriage category, then she was eliminated from the search.

Next comes the Smoking variable.  Smokers are eliminated; although many of them are not truthful about their status.

Then I looked at the Language section.  This is category is inconsistent from site to site, but if there was a clear statement that an interpreter or translator would be needed, then she was eliminated.  This proves to be one of the hardest variables to pin down and wastes a lot of time for both parties.

I usually don’t pay much attention to the other words that are written by the gals as they are not of much value.  The exception is if the gal says something that hoists a red flag (with respect to my desires) on some topic like religion, extreme sports, looking for a rich man, etc.

To minimize the correspondence time for both parties, I don’t make the initial contact until I am within six weeks of arrival in the city.  And, I exchange in total no more than 8 e-mails.

In this process, you start out with hundreds of women to make initial contact with and then start the process of narrowing down.  This undertaking is, indeed, very very hard work, and something not to be
approached lightly or by those who have little time.

Two additional procedures were used for this trip.

First, a previous girlfriend (PG) of mine, PG-Tanya, (who is now married and living in USA) worked with several Russian language sites and duplicated my efforts on the English sites to come up with a viable group of gals for first contact.  I provided her with appropriate commentary for the first two messages (just the basic descriptive data) from me and she handled all of that correspondence. The gals fully understood that Tanya was doing this correspondence for me.  Based on the replies from the gals she was able (completely on her own) to eliminate close to 50 percent of them after two messages.  This route finds a lot of gals who are not listed on English websites but, understandably, provides many gals who do not have English skills.  But overall, it was well worthwhile.

Second, a long-term girlfriend (LTG) of mine, LTG-Anna, ran newspaper ads for me in her hometown (where I would be visiting) and developed a listing of viable gals.  The newspaper ads gave phone, e-mail and P.O. Box for Anna.  I provided her with appropriate commentary for the first two messages (just the basic descriptive data) from me and she handled all of that correspondence.  Based on the replies from the gals she was able (completely on her own) to eliminate close to 70 percent of them.  This route finds a lot of gals who hadn’t really given this venture much thought and who didn’t come close to meeting the stated criteria with respect to age, education, etc. But overall, it was well worthwhile.

After the initial screenings and exchange of messages by Tanya and Anna, I continued the correspondence and the further screening.  From close to a thousand first contacts, I had planned meetings with nearly 15-20 women, and had about that many as backup women.

Both Tanya and Anna were enthusiastic helpers and had an enjoyable time in the process.  And, these two women also know each other with both being from the same hometown and Anna having introduced me to Tanya when I visited there several years ago.  Both had a lot of fun and related to me and each other how the contact gals kept trying to pump them for additional insight info about me, but they stuck to the facts.

I did not contact women at a marriage agency, and have never done so.

[Pike]

ANNA AND TANYA
   
I have randomized the names of all women that I write about, including Anna and Tanya.

LTG-Anna is not the same LTG that I wrote about in my 2007 Trip Report.  Anna is a very successful business woman whom I first met while she was on a trip to USA several years ago and we have been intimate since that time.  She had and has a multi-entry business visa for USA.  We meet when she comes to the USA 3-4 times per year and we have spent time in her hometown when I am there for business.  She is widowed (and was when we first met) with no children.

Anna and I are the type that are very compatible for 3-4 days at a time, but would be highly incompatible for longer periods.  She is very sexual for these short time periods, but openly states that in the long run she only desires sex about once a month.  This, understandably, caused problems between her and her (now deceased) husband.  Also an issue between them was her inability to have children.  She also freely admits that she is a very bitchy and moody woman, and can only contain it for about 3-4 days.

In a very strange and hard to believe story, Anna cannot ever marry again or even move from her home if she is to maintain her current wealth and lifestyle.  A long story, but the short version is: A grandfather raises his 3 grand children who are orphaned.  He manages to survive Soviet  times (there are hints that he was friends with Stalin; but didn’t Stalin have a lot of his friends killed?) and emerge with ownership of a very large 4 story building in a major city.  Rents enable him to start various businesses.  He gives all to the 3 children and their 3 spouses with the provision that if any divorce or remarry then they (the divorcing parties) lose all interest in the building and the businesses.  The building and businesses can only pass to future generations.  I am not sure how this all holds up in the local courts, but that’s the story as I hear it from Anna and her relatives whom I have all met.  Anna married into the family.  The remaining 5 of them have greatly benefitted from the business expansion that was possible after the 1990s and deal mostly with the ultra wealthy.

On my first visit to Anna’s hometown, she introduced me to PG-Tanya and gave us her blessing.  Tanya and I had a torrid affair for a few weeks until I realized that she wanted to come to the USA because her son was already here.  This raised the ‘mule flag’ with me and I cooled everything down.

Tanya swore having a son here was not the reason she was ‘in love’ with me, but we drifted apart while still keeping contact by e-mail.  A few months later, I offered to help Tanya with her search.  This was back when the FSU gals could have a profile on some of the sites such as Friend Finder, Match.com, American Singles, etc.  I helped her with pictures, wording, etc.  She (nor Anna) previously knew nothing about such websites.  I monitored the websites to insure that Tanya kept intact the wording about her son being in the USA.

Within a year or so, she came to USA on the fiancé visa and married the man.  We have kept contact via e-mail infrequently at Christmas, birthdays, etc.  Her husband knows of this contact and approves.  When Tanya heard (from Anna) that I was going back to her hometown she contacted me and offered the help that I described above, as a way of returning the favor that I had done for her.

               

[daveyj]

Jeez, what is going on around here?  So the guy needs to post a TR to prove that he is NOT a "sex tourist", and is obligated to justify his lifestyle choices?  

That's what this board is about?  Ok, good to know.

But it will be a long time before I personally post any more TR's, at least until I see a little bit more consideration for the rights of others demonstrated by some of the self-righteous insecure board bullies.

In the meantime I'll be making judicious use of the Ignore button.

[55North]

Deleted

[GoodOlBoy]

GoodOlBoy.....I imagine that you have done the same..

Gator, you are absolutely correct. I did behave this way. When I was an adolescent teenager and during my tour in the Marines.

Then I grew up.

Look, I have my own issues in life. My own dislikes and likes, right or wrong. Sometimes I get off topic.

But, I really believe that most of us are here to help the newbies and each other when serious questions arise.

Reading a TR report is really cool. I enjoy the details and pictures, BUT, it is just not my cup of tea reading somebody's postings concerning the details of their sexual conquests. IMHO, it is crass and lewd.

I understand this is an open forum, with almost no censure and it is up to the reader to decide what he or she can stomach.

[BC]

Shhhhhh... guys! 

Listen to what Pike has to say (or not - your choice) instead of weaseling in with totally unwarranted critique and requests for substantiation even I would not provide on the open board.

So far his methods seem no different than anyone else doing the i-net dating 'thing' in the US so why all the contempt prior to investigation?

He has very clearly stated he's not hitting on MOB Agency women or those interested only in marriage.. His 'exposure' is to a totally different 'audience' of RW and probably one well worth looking at.

Carry on Pike.

[topofthekey]

I do appreciate the warnings at the front of the thread. I certainly do heed Pike's point that there are women out there not wanting to get married. In that case Pike does sound like the perfect fella for them. I doubt that equates to very many women overall. A great point I read was that even though a women doesn't check the marriage box... that may be just because she is wanting to take things slow or not scare any potential guys off with being too forward.

I don't really feel like questioning Pike's success in business or the other conquests he mentions. I'm a pretty lucky guy myself so I'm glad for Pike and his successes as well.

I have gone out and looked up some definitions for sex tourism. Generally it does involve using a hooker but the definition can expand beyond that. I'm sure Pike and others would say it isn't fair to label them sex tourists for many reasons. Of course there are lots of guys having a lot of sex with various women in their hometowns. I know I've damn well thought about doing it and certainly have friends that do it. These guys generally don't object to being called various terms (like a manwhore for instance). They know what they are doing and are cool with it. I truly believe they have some "sex" buddies that know exactly what they are getting into. But I honestly don't believe the majority of women are wired that way... meaning you do break a lot of hearts even if you aren't trying to do so.

Pike does go to the FSU for work and for the women. I suppose technically if he only traveled over there when he had work to do I'm not sure he easily fits the definition of a sex tourist. Magic Johnson didn't when he flew into Cleveland to play the Cavs and also slept with groupies. But I have a feeling Pike has been to the FSU even when he didn't have work to do.

The impression I get that Pike is trying to convey to us is that he is not "hunting" for a wife but is open to dating and the possibility that a relationship would get to that stage. That is very noble in theory but when you do the math I think "manwhore" or sex tourist is a better fit just based on the sheer number of women he's touting.

He's had sex and done enough dating. At some point you've got to judge by actions and not intentions.

Now Pike your thread didn't upset me. In fact I enjoyed reading it from your angle. The comment that I enjoyed most was the one you made about those that have a difference of opinion than you (on politics). Of course I enjoy a good healthy debate and think you can disagree with someone without being disagreeable. One thing I take away from your post is that you are probably an intelligent and successful guy- but there is no way anyone on here is going to convince you that you are not WMVM. That you are something entirely different based on the information you've presented here.

Regardless I don't think you are a bad guy and I definiately know some guys that are using Craigslist here to do similar things. I'll say to you what I say to them... at least be safe about it.

[topofthekey]

Shhhhhh... guys! 

Listen to what Pike has to say (or not - your choice) instead of weaseling in with totally unwarranted critique and requests for substantiation even I would not provide on the open board.

Pike warned the readers that he was WMVM and that his thread would discuss sex. Technically having "girlfriends" in various cities that you are "active" with while you are lining up more women to date goes beyond even what he warned. Pike might take some heat from the guys... but if he bedded all these ladies then he's a big boy and can handle it.

[Fashionista]

In a very strange and hard to believe story, Anna cannot ever marry again or even move from her home if she is to maintain her current wealth and lifestyle.  A long story, but the short version is: A grandfather raises his 3 grand children who are orphaned.  He manages to survive Soviet  times (there are hints that he was friends with Stalin; but didn’t Stalin have a lot of his friends killed?) and emerge with ownership of a very large 4 story building in a major city.  Rents enable him to start various businesses.  He gives all to the 3 children and their 3 spouses with the provision that if any divorce or remarry then they (the divorcing parties) lose all interest in the building and the businesses.  The building and businesses can only pass to future generations.  I am not sure how this all holds up in the local courts, but that’s the story as I hear it from Anna and her relatives whom I have all met.  Anna married into the family.  The remaining 5 of them have greatly benefitted from the business expansion that was possible after the 1990s and deal mostly with the ultra wealthy.

               

Ownership of a building, businesses, provisions, all in Soviet times?  A very interesting story indeed 

[BC]

The impression I get that Pike is trying to convey to us is that he is not "hunting" for a wife but is open to dating and the possibility that a relationship would get to that stage. That is very noble in theory but when you do the math I think "manwhore" or sex tourist is a better fit just based on the sheer number of women he's touting.

Strangely enough, I can identify a bit with Pike, if not in numbers at least intent.

I can't remember how many times I have suggested guys are probably better off traveling without marriage at all in mind.

The last thing I had in my mind when I bumped into my wife was marriage.. a fact I have always conveyed.  Call it a Freudian slip or whatever, it's happened before during my travels without resulting in marriage.

One, ten, twenty, fifty, a hundred.. kinda hard to draw the 'line' isn't it.. so put me in the same bucket as Pike.. whatever math is used no biggie here.

I kinda sum it up as many not seeing what I interpret is at least one of the points Pike's is trying to make.  Look for the substance and don't let the numbers distract.

A hundred come here and tell us it's a 'numbers game' and get nothing but praise.. now we have numbers and complain.. LOL

whatever..

[topofthekey]

Strangely enough, I can identify a bit with Pike, if not in numbers at least intent.

I can't remember how many times I have suggested guys are probably better off traveling without marriage at all in mind.

The last thing I had in my mind when I bumped into my wife was marriage.. a fact I have always conveyed.  Call it a Freudian slip or whatever, it's happened before during my travels without resulting in marriage.

One, ten, twenty, fifty, a hundred.. kinda hard to draw the 'line' isn't it.. so put me in the same bucket as Pike.. whatever math is used no biggie here.

I kinda sum it up as many not seeing what I interpret is at least one of the points Pike's is trying to make.  Look for the substance and don't let the numbers distract.

A hundred come here and tell us it's a 'numbers game' and get nothing but praise.. now we have numbers and complain.. LOL

whatever..

I'd agree that it absolutely is a numbers game. When I go back over I'll definiately try to met a lot of women. That is WMVM. I'll definiately meet them for coffee or a meal and try and figure out which ones would be most compatible with me. While its not a marriage hunt it is a relationship hunt. Thats not what Pike is doing. When it comes to a matter of taste as to how you'd approach WMVM it can be difficult to draw a line in the sand as you mentioned. However Pike claims of going to meet his women in various cities just for a couple of days to sleep with them and then move on is something completely different. You should understand that BC. If Pike played basketball... his actions look like Magic Johnson.

If I drive over to a womans house in my home town just to have physical relations with her then she is a "sex buddy" If I do that with many women then I'm a "manwhore". If I go overseas and am sleeping with sex buddies or any women I can bed that didn't check the marriage box.... I'm a sex tourist. Not judging that... just defining that.

[Faux Pas]

If I drive over to a womans house in my home town just to have physical relations with her then she is a "sex buddy" If I do that with many women then I'm a "manwhore". If I go overseas and am sleeping with sex buddies or any women I can bed that didn't check the marriage box.... I'm a sex tourist. Not judging that... just defining that.

I have read all of Pike's TR's that I've come across. This is not what I understand him to be doing. I would not consider him a sex tourist. According to Pike, he is meeting and bedding many women. He has his own process of qualifying these woman for possible future relationships up to and including marriage. It seems to me, his going to bed with them is another step in his qualifying the lady. To me this is understandable if sex is the most important aspect of a relationship for Pike. IIRC he stated in earlier threads he did sleep with a couple of women that he knew beforehand wasn't GF or wife material. But slept with them anyway.

I'm sure Pike is enjoying his process and if it works for him, I say power to him. These women give of themselves of their own freewill. He's not raping them, slipping them a MickyFinn or making unfulfilled promises. His particular method doesn't appeal to me but, my method may not appeal to Pike either. I wouldn't for a minute insist Pike is a bad man, immoral or a sex tourist for his methods. I don't particularly feel Pike will ever be successful either but I do wish him the best.

[BC]

topofthekey,

I dunno about you, but when meeting women, the first indication of interest was an uncomfortable feeling below the belt.

Is that not natural?  Isn't that the 'spark' that all things follow?

Lemme tell ya, I never had even a short term relationship when the physical reaction was not there first, much less a long term relationship.

Comeon.. be honest..

Maybe I'm strange, but within 5 minutes, or probably less I'll know if a woman is 'interesting' or not..  and we're not talking Playboy or Penthouse, just something about the woman that appeals.. could be her mind, could be a big nose, could be seductively chubby, older, younger, nice eyes, nice lips, whatever..

However Pike claims of going to meet his women in various cities just for a couple of days to sleep with them and then move on is something completely different. You should understand that BC. If Pike played basketball... his actions look like Magic Johnson.

If I drive over to a womans house in my home town just to have physical relations with her then she is a "sex buddy" If I do that with many women then I'm a "manwhore". If I go overseas and am sleeping with sex buddies or any women I can bed that didn't check the marriage box.... I'm a sex tourist. Not judging that... just defining that.

Given the means, I'd probably not dislike the lifestyle Pike describes.  IIRC there were women he met that he dropped and that dropped him before landing in the sack. Hey that's life.  One of the lessons I learned quite a few years ago is that women and men enjoy sex.  Man's largest failing when it comes to women is that men seem to fear (yes mortally fear) the remotest possibility of rejection.  Instead we hide behind a veil of knighthood or such, trying to impress in order to achieve what is often readily available..  pure and simple overkill.

My lesson was with a friend in southern Spain many years ago.  We were in a huge supermarket with maybe 20 or 30 checkout lines.. all filled with some of the finest looking women Spain had to offer.  His shopping basket was filled with:

1 Bottle of wine
1 Box of condoms
1 Package of Bulls Balls.. yes a blooming large set of testicles, Rocky mountain oysters, whatever you wanna call them.

By the time the items were tallied and paid he had a date and I did not.

I really, really thought he would get at the least a good slap.

It was a brash, and a the time I thought quite 'crude' act.. but made me think..

Pike may not be up 'your alley', but hopefully he will make you think.- In the end that is not awfully bad or?


  

[topofthekey]

I'm sure Pike is enjoying his process and if it works for him, I say power to him. These women give of themselves of their own freewill. He's not raping them, slipping them a MickyFinn or making unfulfilled promises. His particular method doesn't appeal to me but, my method may not appeal to Pike either. I wouldn't for a minute insist Pike is a bad man, immoral or a sex tourist for his methods. I don't particularly feel Pike will ever be successful either but I do wish him the best.

I don't disagree and I hold the opinion that women that are looking for more than what Pike is really offering should know better... I was just defining what Pike is doing.

You put the words... immoral, bad man, and sex tourist all in the same sentence. If Pike was doing what some of my friends do by having a bunch of sex buddies and meeting some on craigslist you'd call them a player or man whore. All I'm doing is adding in the travel part to the definition. If you equate morality and being a bad person with casual sex with a lot of different women then thats your definition. I just defined what Pike is doing... I never judged him.

If you don't like the term sex tourist... lets go with traveling man who has sex with a lot of different women including those just for casual sex purposes. I think its easier to go with a shorter term personally.