Law's Ukraine Trip Report

[groovlstk]

Law, please excuse me for my comments.

You had a good time and this is a marvelous trip report, but you spent at least 10 K or so on a trip, which at best would be called a fact finding mission.

There are no real prospects. To me the value for the time and money you spent is very limited.

That would be a lot of money even for a well to do person, for an average American that would be at least three months pay.

A much better or alternative approach may be to communicate well with two or three women for a few months and then visit them, on one trip; pick one city. You can use EM or bride.ru to find them.  These are the women who would have working knowledge of English, and would know all about you before meeting you. The cost would be 2 to 3 K per visit.
The most important point is that they have already accepted you as a potential mate, even before they met you.

Ambach, how much $$$ did you spend in your ill-advised and superficial pursuit of your ex-fiance? You were so gung-ho to save money by getting engaged quickly that you were penny wise, dollar foolish: I'd bet you dropped more $$$ in your pursuit of one woman than Law did on his entire trip, and at least Law had the benefit of meeting and dating a lot of women and traveling to multiple FSU cities, and can put that experience to use in the future.

[ambach123]

Law the fact that you are African American is a major deal breaker. To them you are a novelty, they want to date you but would not accept you as a mate.

No amount of learning the Russian language is going to change that. You would be wasting more of your time.

However you may find ONE that would accept you, but that would not occur on random meetings.  Once again, It is a waste of your time and money.

You are looking for a cosmopolitan, liberal woman; most likely she would already be speaking some English.

Where would you find such a woman?

In Moscow or Kiev where they have contacts with other kinds of people.

EM and bride.ru are reputable sites, and easy to join.

Your response rate may be less than 1%, and it is hard work, but the one who responds would know who you are; specifically with her, you may do well.

[ambach123]

gstick, the advise is for Law.

I got nothing to do with you , so move on.

[groovlstk]

gstick, the advise is for Law.

I got nothing to do with you , so move on.

Ambach, I will continue to comment on your "advise," particularly when it's bad - and more often than not, it is. If you don't like it, put me on ignore.

You want a sex slave who will marry you for the promise of a comfortable life and will stay with you for lack of other opportunities. Please don't confuse your pursuit of a wife-for-rent with the goals of other men here such as Law.

[ambach123]

Fortunately there is a block, so I would not see your postings.

[Diplomacy]

I agree that the less of a language barrier the better. I mean learning it to show the type of person he is and shining above the crowd.  I do not agree there is no quality woman in the FSU that would not marry him.  Tolerance is a virtue, and it may very well be an asset for him.  It will weed out any of the lesser thinkers. 

I only worry about Law around some drunk people outside or in a bar for the most part.  I do not think he wasted money, it is clearly a growth experience and maybe that point is hard to place a dollar value on.

Law I would also think about a good wing man on the trip.  You may decide to turtle up in the flat on your next trip.  Just something to think about.

[Law]

Law the fact that you are African American is a major deal breaker. To them you are a novelty, they want to date you but would not accept you as a mate.

No amount of learning the Russian language is going to change that. You would be wasting more of your time.

However you may find ONE that would accept you, but that would not occur on random meetings.  Once again, It is a waste of your time and money.

Appreciate the thoughts...
I'll share are some of my own

Re: Race- Being Black is a deal breaker, huh? I don't doubt that may be true in some, maybe many cases, but I wonder what you're basing this statement on. I suppose if I were running for office I would agree without exception. But I only need to find one sincere woman in a country full of people who can look beyond my color who will accept me. Hell, it's not like I got freakin' TOAD skin. Interesting that YOU should say 'deal breaker'. Love is cosmic and transcends such superficial bounds. International love can't be too different from interracial love, could it? I've seen stranger things.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not naive about the importance of racial preference, or even racial hatred in the matters of love and dating. (I carry strong prejudices of my own. Have you considered why I've traveled to the this particular side of the planet to find someone, hmmm? ) From my very limited experience on my trip I'm not too worried about it. If someone is amused by my friendship but doesn't want to settle down...I'll cross that street when I come to it. Until then...thanks for the tip, friend. I know you're just being 'concerned'.

Re: Russian Language- I love languages and I intend to learn as much Russian as I can. This trip and the amazing folks I've met have really motivated my pursuit. Learning Russian a 'waste of time?' I don't see it that way. It may not make the difference in the mind of a woman who won't marry me 'cause I'm Black, but neither would excessive wealth, celebrity, or any other of the qualities an average man could covet. At the very least I'll be enriched a little and able to enjoy myself far more on my next romp through the FSU.

Re: English Language- For sure, I wouldn't try to bring someone over who didn't speak English well. But I don't think I'll limit my search to just ladies who are English speakers, for now. When things get serious enough that should be an easy indicator of her sincerity. That being said, it will be far easier to fall in love with someone who already knows English.

[GoodOlBoy]

Ambach, I will continue to comment on your "advise," particularly when it's bad - and more often than not, it is. If you don't like it, put me on ignore......You want a sex slave

Ambach123, you and Porno Pike "aka Albert" have posted your bad intentions all over this board.

Like Groovlstick, I WILL call you and Porno Pike out when you are giving "bad" advice to our newer members.

[ambach123]

Law, Jack Bragg has several posts on the race issue, he has seen that the first hand with his minority clients.
You can do the search.

The impression is, that it is exceedingly difficult for a Black man, not impossible, but extremely difficult.

You will have exactly what you had, a good time, but that does not get you a mate.

In the final analysis you would have to decide if it is worth the effort; but you should know your odds from the get go, which are very slim, and none in the way you are doing it.

[Law]

In the final analysis you would have to decide if it is worth the effort; but you should know your odds from the get go, which are very slim, and none in the way you are doing it.

Two steps ahead of you.
Thanks for the tip, pal.

Next subject please...

-L

[ambach123]

Law, FSU has racial bigotry, big time. I undestand that certain individuals may not be so, but that would be a very small minority. You have to find that certain individual, and you are unlikely to find that one on random visits.

FWIW, over 100 dark skinned persons were slaughtered in the streets of Moscow this year, their fault, nothing but the color of their skin.

Wile we in USA have become increasingly tolerant, so much so that our young people are almost color blind; FSU is not like that and never will be.

For some reasons, not quite clear to me, I have also heard that the scammers specifically target non white people.

[Mark Davis]

Hey, - Law:

I commend you on being a great example of a man - comfortable with himself - and confident in knowing what he wants - and how to go get it.  You have a good heart and good women will continue to be attracted to it.  You just have to know where to look to find the women who will appreciate it - and I think you've found your place.

When I went on my journey to find a wife, I was told about the odds, the difficulties, and how dim my chances were.  I didn't care.  That was their story.  I found my wife on an AFA tour.  Of the five guys I made close friends with on my tour, all of them found ladies as well, just not on that first tour, but subsequent tours.

The interesting question that comes to my mind is to think about how your trip would have been different if you didn't have anyone in particular you were planning on seeing.  Would you already be in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship with one of the others you met? 

I will join the ranks of those who are your corner.  Keep up the good fight.  It is worth the effort.

I just came across this quote from Robert Kiyosaki: "The single most influencing factor that will determine your success or failure in life is the woman you pick to wake up to each day."

Put a price tag on that.

Mark

[GoodOlBoy]

Wile we in USA have become increasingly tolerant, so much so that our young people are almost color blind; FSU is not like that and never will be.

Wrong again Ambach123.

I remember when your same words about bigotry in the FSU were said about the Good OL' USA and look at us now. We just elected Barack Obama to the Presidency.

NEVER say NEVER about anything in this world.

[Law]

Law, FSU has racial bigotry, big time. I undestand that certain individuals may not be so, but that would be a very small minority. You have to find that certain individual, and you are unlikely to find that one on random visits.

FWIW, over 100 dark skinned persons were slaughtered in the streets of Moscow this year, their fault, nothing but the color of their skin.

Yo, Ambach123, I DON'T find it funny how one moment you recommend me searching for a mate in a city like Moscow and the next you offer up a 'snapple fun fact' about 100 people of color being slaughtered there. WTH?

Nothing personal, but could you be so kind as to not post on my threads again? Your opinions are too difficult for me to sort out.

Just asking...

[Blues Fairy]

Wile we in USA have become increasingly tolerant, so much so that our young people are almost color blind; FSU is not like that and never will be.

Ambach what an ignorant fool you are.  I would advise that the OP be better off disregarding your ignorant posts but luckily he has already figured that out.

[ambach123]

With due respect to Law, I would not post on this thread.

BF you still can't read English, after all these many years here.

Read the following, and if you don't understand have it translated to whatever language you speak, you sure can't read English.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=ig&q=racism+in+russia+&btnG=Search

Probably most detailed account is here in the Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_modern_Russia

[Law]

With due respect to Law, I would not post on this thread.

Thanks big guy. I owe you one.
But, y'all know this is "Law's Ukraine Trip Report", not "Law's Russia Trip Report"

I knew Russia was less tolerant than Ukraine. Don't I get any credit for my choice of FSU country? 


Next and last installment of my TR coming up real soon.
I'm saving the best for last.

-L

[Doll]

I knew Russia was less tolerant than Ukraine. Don't I get any credit for my choice of FSU country?

Can't see any difference between Russia and Ukraine in this regard

[ambach123]

I would be interested in some other people's opinions who know the difference in this regard in Russia and Ukraine.

[Doll]

I would be interested in some other people's opinions who know the difference in this regard in Russia and Ukraine.

I am sure there is none

[Law]

I guess the subject is inevitable.....so I checked out the Wiki links...very sad indeed. And since we're still on the subject- am I naive to think that racial tolerance is significantly higher/better in Ukraine?

The worst racism I have ever felt has been in right in my own backyard. Of course, that's saying NOTHING because I haven't traveled to many places in the world. And let's not talk about the deep south. There are places in the good ol U.S. of A. I still won't go, I don't care who's president!

There's a saying that's stayed with me since I was very young...

"Excellence is the best antidote to prejudice"
  I've lived this out and it works!

I know that some places are hotbeds of violence against the 'oppressed', and there are some situations where you just can't win. While I've never found myself in any such situations while I was in Ukraine, I'm not so certain that I could say the same for Russia. You won't catch me there in my search for a mate!

There are two reasons I suspect there IS a difference in the racial tolerance in Ukraine vs Russia

1) A Russian coworker of mine suggests that Ukraine is FAR more tolerant than his homeland.

2) The reports of the most heinous hate crimes (in the wikis) are in Russia. (Russia this, Russia that...) Where are all the 'stories' in other countries in the FSU?

(There goes my thread  )

[Shadow]

What people talking about racism in the FSU seem to forget is that colours mean a very different thing over there.

A 'black man' in Russia is a guy originating from the Causasus area (yep.... a true Caucasian  ) as 'black' people who look like Law are extremely rare to find, so probably even harder to kill. Lost in translation one might say.

Racism is present in the FSU, and as much of it is directed against (illegal) immigrants one might find more of it in Moscow than in the smaller cities in Ukraine. However I would agree with Law that he probably will meet more outright racism in his back yard as in any place in the FSU.

[BC]

I would be interested in some other people's opinions who know the difference in this regard in Russia and Ukraine.

Yes Ambach.. that is really what this board is about.. sharing experience and not conjecture or weblinks.

My direct experience is that my wife and her family are quite tolerant to other races. She is also proud godmother for the child of a mixed RU/Asian couple.

I have never seen anyone beat up on the street in RU.  Did almost get beat up myself by a couple of rather huge bullies in UA, but my wife intervened and we ended up sitting down with them and having a beer then moved on.

And that's about all I can share with any authority.

Sounds like Law experienced a good time (maybe even better than experienced by others) and can only wish him more of the same the next time he travels.

[OlgaH]

There are two reasons I suspect there IS a difference in the racial tolerance in Ukraine vs Russia

2) The reports of the most heinous hate crimes (in the wikis) are in Russia. (Russia this, Russia that...) Where are all the 'stories' in other countries in the FSU?

If you can read Ukraine or Russian read Ukraine news and articles about Ukraine skinheads and Ukraine nationalist movement. In August the vice president of the Jewish Confederation of Ukraine Josef Zisels said about increase of nationalistic crime  and also about aggression and xenophobia that takes it place all over Ukraine
http://www.obozrevatel.com/news/2008/8/1/251622.htm

Skinheads Brutalise Indian Man
http://www.whatson-kiev.com/index.php?go=News&in=view&id=3741

RACISM IS ON THE UPSWING IN UKRAINE
http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=33614

 'Alarming rise' in Ukraine racism
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7499364.stm

The Ukraine Government has proclaimed Stepan Bandera and Symon Petlura to be heroes of Ukraine. Of course they are bright personalities in Ukraine history, but what about such facts as Bandera collaborated with Abwehr and he is responsible for the Massacres of Poles in Volhynia during the WWI;  Petlura is responsible for anti-Jewish pogroms. Will Ukraine Government honor thousands Poles, Jews and Belorussians and even Ukrainians - victims of Bandera and Petlura activity?

http://www.thexvid.com/video/10770/jews-are-revolted-by-the-ukrainian-state-fascism

Ukraine integral nationalism is a variety of fascism. Have you read the work by ideologist of Ukraine Nationalist movement Dmitri Dontsov?

[Gator]

Law, you are in Ukraine, so do not concern yourself with differences between Russia and Ukraine, if there is one.  Frankly, I have seen mixed marriages in Moscow, rare but mixed nevertheless.

One of RW wife's best friends here in Florida is a UW married to a delightful African-American.  I am sure you can find an intelligent UW (or RW) who will love you passionately for who you are, and it seems that you have done well so far on your first trip. You may encounter some ignorance along the way, yet you impress me as someone who will stay above it.