Gas Pipeline and effects to Ukraine

[OlgaH]

Accountants and lawyers are on average of poor quality in these countries and let poorly done deals to happen.
 

Of course American accountants and lawyers are the best as America goes at the head of the whole Planet 

[ECOCKS]

I would think that for a contract of 1.5 billion one would be able to get an above-average lawyer. 

One would think that but they seem more focused on hiring judges than they do lawyers.

[M_Diva]

Gasprom has a cash flow decrease which has caused the special subside to Ukraine below cost of production/acquisition to be a sore subject with the company and stockholders. I am a stockholder, through an investment fund, and I don't like giving money to Ukraine or anyone else even if they paid their bills and did not steal from me. An alternate pipeline to the EU needs to be build and let Ukraine buy from whomever will take the credit risk with them. It might be another matter if we were allies or preferred trade partners but the politicians have been trying to create an enemy of Russia for a while. If they join NATO and have increased military presence by the US,that completes the encirclement of Russia, they should be treated with great suspicion as they will likely be a surrogate for Washington adventures to undermine Russia, as in Georgia.
I have nothing against Ukraine, I visit the Black Sea often but the government is not our friend and will do anything to discredit and embarrass us, yet one of our larger companies is expected to sell gas below the cost of acquition. Why?  Ukrainians say because they can't afford it. If there middlemen would lower the profit they take, people could afford it. The price at a home is quite reasonable if sold near the price that it is delivered to Ukraine. We pay more in SPb than they would in Ukraine if the middlemen in the top government would set a markup of only what is taken by our distributor. The people are complaining to the wrong people, it is not Gasprom, it is taking a loss on each cubicmeter.
Marina
St Petersburg

[OlgaH]

One would think that but they seem more focused on hiring judges than they do lawyers.

Do you think the hired judges will gather all documents, evidence and represent the companies?  If not the judges who will do it?  When the lawyers can not come to agreement even at mediation they go to trial. 

[OlgaH]

December 19, 2008

Press secretary of the President of Ukraine Irina Vannikova reported to journalists:

"According to the President of Ukraine, the payment delay for the received resource, that has taken place due to the Government's negligent attitude to the issue, has leaded to the excessive procrastination of the contract signing between Ukraine Naftogas and Gasprom" 
 

[kievstar]

OlgaH, no one said USA has good lawyers and accountants on average but for large companies they have very good lawyers and sound contracts usually. Most of Europe does as well.  I do like the TV clip they show of Putin all day long in Brussels of Putin telling CEO of gazprom to turn off the gas.  Putin probably wishes he did not release that tv clip or is the EU putting words in Putin's mouth?  This is why you go to war every couple years so disputes like this do not happen.  Maybe Russia and Ukraine should settle it like countries used to.  

[BC]

What goes in is not coming out.
Leave the rest for the experts to figger out.
There ain't nuthin we know here,
But that's sumpthin no one wants to hear.
So here we sit in our warm cuddly homes
with nuthin to do but b!tch and groan.
What goes in is not coming out.

[OlgaH]

This is why you go to war every couple years so disputes like this do not happen.  Maybe Russia and Ukraine should settle it like countries used to.  

as who? 

"President Bush's Cabinet agreed in April 2001 that 'Iraq remains a destabilizing influence to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East' and because this is an unacceptable risk to the US 'military intervention' is necessary." http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1006-03.htm

[OlgaH]

Putin telling CEO of gazprom to turn off the gas.
  Putin probably wishes he did not release that tv clip or is the EU putting words in Putin's mouth?

I don't know what a clip you are talking about, but you should know that Gazprom first of all appealed to Putin, and Putin gave his permission.  At the end of the video you can see Putin asking Miller "what do you suggest?" 

[Beaverpatrol]

I do not know whether the following so really suits in this Tread.
Its originally a joke from Ukraina.

Question: "Where the place with most security is for Jews?"
Answer: In the Ukraine, they have no more gas.

Macabrely!

[OlgaH]

Its originally a joke from Ukraina.

Question: "Where the place with most security is for Jews?"
Answer: In the Ukraine, they have no more gas.

Macabrely!

referring to the events as...?   

Some 6 million Jewish people were killed by gas and burned in ovens.
http://www.georgiabulletin.org/local/2008/03/06/desbois/

[ECOCKS]

I'm sure this will resolve through negotiation.  Russia's in a heck of a mess if Ukraine shuts down that pipe or raises the rates for transit to cover more of their bill.  Both sides need each other so Ukraine will continue to get favorable pricing and Russia gets to keep selling their gas to Europe.  The Northern pipeline is years from completion.  Of course, by then Ukraine better be ready to figure out what to sell off next or line up some other things to privatize.

[ECOCKS]

Do you think the hired judges will gather all documents, evidence and represent the companies?  If not the judges who will do it?  When the lawyers can not come to agreement even at mediation they go to trial. 

Like any judges in Russia or Ukraine are going to look at the documents or evidence.

 

[OlgaH]

Like any judges in Russia or Ukraine are going to look at the documents or evidence.

 

ECOCKS,

and all the documents and evidence will be given them by the lawyers   

One would think that but they seem more focused on hiring judges than they do lawyers.

[OlgaH]

Kremlin lays down terms as gas crisis engulfs Europe
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090107/tbs-kremlin-lays-down-terms-as-gas-crisi-5268574.html

[ECOCKS]

Time to go to the table, or the matresses.

[OlgaH]

Time to go to the table, or the matresses.

Depends on Yuschenko: what position is more comfortable for him 

[Diplomacy]

Could someone explain to me? Without some sort of unbiased source, overseeing the readings of pressure and throughput of gas.  How does anyone know for a fact who is at fault?

Nobody can prove that Russia is putting into the pipeline and Russia could prove it with someone watching their head end.  This is a chicken and egg argument IMO.

Russia sure is not begging for someone to monitor the gas going through at the Ukraine choke point either.  I am not schooled in the way of Natural gas transit.   Ukraine only has so much reserve capacity and the tanks were full by all accounts. 

   

[Blues Fairy]

If they join NATO and have increased military presence by the US,that completes the encirclement of Russia, they should be treated with great suspicion as they will likely be a surrogate for Washington adventures to undermine Russia, as in Georgia.

Whoa, whoa!  How exactly is Russia threatened by NATO, if their present charter defines them as a military alliance of democratic nations against rogue oppressive regimes perpetrating aggression against the said nations.  I don't see why be so defensive unless Russia defines itself as an oppressive regime intending to perpetrate aggression.  

Georgia is a Washington adventure to undermine Russia? That's a paranoid idea.

That said, I do believe Ukraine acts out of desperation, having considered itself entitled to lower prices, wrongly.  But we really don't know how the negotiations progressed behind the closed doors and what exactly was at stake.

[Misha]

Ukraine only has so much reserve capacity and the tanks were full by all accounts. 

From what I have read, both Ukraine and Europe have a couple months worth of supplied in storage.

[OlgaH]

Russia sure is not begging for someone to monitor the gas going through at the Ukraine choke point either.

Russia already "begged" for independent audit, but Ukraine denied access to gas measuring  station on its territory to independent auditor of SGS.  

[Diplomacy]

Misha, they have enough until April.  I meant you could look at there reserve tanks and figure it out there.

Olga:

I meant that Russia could have it monitored right before it enters Ukraine.  This way there is no doubt what is going on.

[Misha]

Misha, they have enough until April.  I meant you could look at there reserve tanks and figure it out there.

April is even better. Enough to last through the winter

[ECOCKS]

"If they join NATO and have increased military presence by the US,that completes the encirclement of Russia..."

encirclement?

Huh?

Guess I have to go back to basic geography?  Kazakhstan? Azerbijian? China? 

If that statement is true, one might just give some thought as to whether Russia should have spent some time building up trust, credibility and goodwill all the last decade or so instead of managing to tick off ALL their neighbors, as well as some of their own citizenry.

You reap what you sow.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8800.0

[OlgaH]

Olga:

I meant that Russia could have it monitored right before it enters Ukraine.  This way there is no doubt what is going on.

Speaking at a media conference in Berlin, Aleksandr Medvedev said that as independent auditors are still being blocked from working at Ukraine’s gas measuring stations, Gazprom had invited a national resource analysts’ group from Switzerland to measure gas leaving Russia and the gas leaving Ukraine.

PRAGUE/BRUSSELS, Jan 7 (Reuters) - The European Union gave Ukraine its clearest warning yet on Wednesday that any failure to meet commitments to deliver Russian gas to the bloc would hurt its aspirations for closer EU ties.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKL770754320090107?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0