Violence against journalists

[Sculpto]

Well it just keeps getting more interesting...

We had  along chat on yahoo again this morning.. California morning...

She explained a big part of her "freakout" yesterday.. Dad is getting worse.. family is out of money to take care of him... she has no choice to work.. can not see how she can leave Russia right now...

Then.. she proposed we get married in Russia now.. and she comes to me later when the whole family situation is settled...

Thoughts?

[AnastassiaAsh]

Sculpto, I know you asked not to tell you to drop her, but this is more and more evident. I hope you at least won't send her money to help her with her 'dad' situation or whatever it is. No matter how you look at it, even if we are optimistic, she isn't ready for K1 and for the move to another country. It seems she will always come up with some tragic situation or a circumstance that won't let her leave. But you are not ultimately for that, aren't you? Do you want to move to her city and live there? I don't think so.....

Also, this crazy situation doesn't give her right to be angry at you or shift all this craziness on you. These yahoo conversations shouldn't have happened the way they did. Why in the world would she question EVERYTHING as you said? Just because somebody hit her on the head? Cmon! This is nuts, irrational, childish and abuse! If you want to stay in this situation and take all this - then it's your problem. I hope you won't. Sorry it is all turning out this way... 

[SMS60]

Sculpto

Wow, I dont know your whole situation so all my opinions are based off your posts.

I would not go and marry her. Whatever you do dont give into to this request until you have your boots on the ground and can see first hand whats going on. That is if you even want to keep putting effort into the relationship. I would not. The rules seemed to have changed in the middle of the game.

Like I stated in a previous post she is showing you what she is made of. She will reveal more if you keep in contact and want to put yourself thru it. It might be what you need to come to your final decision.

The situation she is describing to you will not be resolved for a long time. Think about all the problems she is telling you. How long will it be until her father is well and can earn income? There is no answer to the problem except for a future son in law to send money the family.

Like I said I dont know how close you are to her or vice versa but this does not sound good.

What happens if you tell her you cant come and marry her under these circumstances? You might see the real her!

Good luck.

[Sculpto]

Honestly.. my heart is kind of breaking.. I have a lot of time invested in this relationship.. but.. whats going on is not right..

If she wants to marry me in Russia there should be absolutely no reason I can not visit her in Tomsk..

I don't know what the hell she is thinking..

I am on the verge of cancelling the Feb trip. 

[Diplomacy]

Sculpto:

Fold em brother.  I can understand keeping you away from the Father if he has anti-American feelings and there is not a good reason to let him know.

This is maybe a near death experience type of situation you are dealing with.  She is second guessing and thinking about everything.  I do not see why you can not be in Tomsk as long as you are not going to visit Papa. 

I could understand the first trip and making sure you were what she thought you were.  Now, it is just getting to the point of insane.  I would think with the current state of journalism in Russia.  I would be looking for an out. 

Realize this you are growing as a person, and are able to take a relationship to the next level.  That is a good thing IMO, just get yourself out of this situation. 

My spidy senses are all tingling right now.  Get out of Dodge. 

If nothing else she may become the Caged Bird singing when she gets to America.

[Shadow]

Good point.. though.. I think she was flattered by the idea.. she had already been hinting she didn't want me in Tomsk for some other reasons that are legit and I am comfortable with.

I wonder what reasons she has told you which you feel are legit.

As for the constant requests for marriage, I would consider that this is for her a 'way out of trouble'.
After all she would be able to receive financial support from you (and expect it) as wife, and this could be used to help out her current family problems.

[GoodOlBoy]

Sculpto, like everyone else, I have been reading your posts.

This whole thing reads like a bad roller coaster ride.

Sorry friend, but maybe it is time to get off?

[Gator]

I agree with BC's punching bag comment.  RW require patience.  Show some patience.   

IMO there is more going on than her recent trauma and her father's illness.  Namely, she is having serious doubts about you and marriage.  Let her sort it out.  Be mature, patient and strong while she does. 

BTW, exactly how much time have you spent with her?  When did you propose?

yes.. i did offer to go immediately.. and to hunt down and kill whoever did that to her.

Interesting statement from someone who thought McCain should have disobeyed his military orders to fly bombing missions in Vietnam.

[Misha]

She explained a big part of her "freakout" yesterday

Thoughts?

Reread Anastassia's post. Even before the attack and the concussion, you were always referring to incidents IIRC where she would "freakout" and then provide some explanation the next day.

[Sculpto]

Thanks to everyone for the reasonable advice.  I spent last night doing a lot of soul searching and talked to a couple of close friends and my Mother.  Everyone agrees something is not right about this situation though there are differing opinions, like here, about what the real problem is.

It has been almost 17 months since I first started corresponding with her.  Early last summer, before I went to see her, when her father first was diagnosed, her reactions were not very different from how they are now.  She became distraught and unconsolable.  With a bit of time passing she calmed down and returned to being happy and fun to talk to.

Before her Father got sick she had money in the bank.  After spending everything she had on his hospitalization she expressed a lot of frustration about being broke.  She had a major falling out with her best friend when that friend refused to loan her some money.  They have since reconciled.

Since the very beginning she has always been somewhat secretive about her work.  She once sent me an article she wrote that was highly critical of jehovahs witnesses and had a terrible reaction when I was critical of her attack on the JWs, even if I do not like this religion I absolutely do not condone any form of anti-religious propoganda which to me, even as a non religious person, is highly offensive.  However, afterwards we had a lot of talks about politics and society and it seemed her views evolved a lot and for the first time she seemed to stop seeing Russia as the center of the world and became interested not in how Russia views the world but in how the world views Russia.  It was the most fun time of our correspondence when I showed her web sites about the Zap revolution in Mexico, Tianamen Square, and a variety of social movements in the USA, and especially some of the wacky politics of SF.  Right about that time the publisher she was working for was forced by death threat to leave Tomsk. 

She went to Moscow at the beginning of the summer not long after her Father became ill because she needed to work and earn more money than she could in Tomsk.  Since she was already in Moscow we finally agreed to meet there.

When we met things were good, I would not say great, but they were good.  As I said in my TR she had some moods that were hard to figure out and she clearly needed some quiet personal time.  I did not have a problem with that, except to the degree to which she acted bitchy, but, on both occasions when she got into a "mood" she overcompensated for it later.  It seemed something I could deal with on the long term and since I am prone to my own "moods" I figured whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

She has since on a couple of occasions expressed a certain reluctance about getting married, not because she doesn't care for me or love me, but, because she is young and has no pressing need to get married at this point.   

The plan for my second visit originally was to go to Tomsk so I could meet her Mom and sister and brother.  Several weeks after my return she changed her mind because of her Father.  Her Father is a cop, as anti USA as they come and she did not want to do anything to upset him while on his deathbed.  I can understand that and decided to respect her decision.  So, the agreement was to meet in Moscow for two weeks.

She did not tell me right away about being attacked.  I have not asked why she didn't tell me.  On the 30th we had a strange chat and she got mad at me for what seemed no reason saying only, "you never understand me".  Later she sent me a message explaining what had happened and apologized for being aggresive with me.   Later that same day we had a chat and she said she couldn't think right and felt she was going crazy.  I told her to go to sleep and rest and be patient and she would feel better in a few days.  The next day is when she started doubting and questioning everything and the following day was yesterday and she made this strange proposal to get married in Russia and come to me later after her Father dies.

From what I understand about the procedure for marrying a foreigner in Russia it would not be logistically possible during a two week trip and I am sure she is not aware of that.  So, getting married in Feb is out of the question anyway. 

Getting to the bottom of what is really going on is going to take time and patience.  Do I have the patience?  I don't know.  Right now I am really upset and a big part of me is saying dump her and move on.  But, another part of me is saying that would be a mistake.  I am really conflicted and what makes it more difficult for me is I am ordinarily the kind of person who is decisive and always knows what to do.  Being in limbo makes me really unhappy.  Most likely I will just try to distract myself for a few days and not contact her.  Whenever I have made myself unavailable in the past she has made a big effort to understand my point of view.

I doubt she has some ulterior motives about me paying for her Dads medical bills.  She knows I do not have that kind of money and she has never made any issue about getting money from me in the past.  I feel that in her twisted logic her offer to marry me in Russia is a way to say to me that she wants to be with me but she is not really available now.  I think in her mind her offer is designed to give me confidence in her that she will stay with me even if it takes a year or two before we can be together.  It can also be a test to see if I am as serious about her as I have said I am.  Kind of a "take it or leave it" scenario, even an ultimatum, though, it was not presented as one.

I have a problem with that logic because it eliminates every little bit of the romance.  I feels like dependency or the establishment of dependency. 

So, I am in wait and see mode.  The ticket prices keep going down and there are plenty of seats on the flight I would be taking so I can afford to wait another week or two.  I am hoping with some more rest and the celebration of Christmas with her family she will feel better and come to her senses.  But, there are red flags all over this now and it will take a lot to fix it.  If she creates even the smallest additional drama that will be the end of it for sure. 

And finally Gator.. I think it was pretty rude and useless to mention our debate about McCain in regards to my instinct to protect someone I love.  There is a big difference between being a pilot dropping bombs on civilians and being a man in love going after some scumbag Russian underworld hitman who beats up beautiful young women for pay.

btw.. did anyone watch 2020 last night?  Story about Hans and Nina...

[Misha]

When we met things were good, I would not say great, but they were good. 

Are you willing to settle for "good" not "great" in a future marriage partner?

[Sculpto]

Are you willing to settle for "good" not "great" in a future marriage partner?

Good question Misha..

For me.. great would have been that we went to more museums and other cultural attractions and she would have let me take her out to eat.. I really wanted to try Georgian food.  She was more than content to stay home and well... you know.. and that was awesome. 

As far as my feelings for her.. they were great.  The trip was good, not great.  The girl was mostly great and would have been totally great if she had not had a bad mood two times.  But, I would rather see her bad mood at the beginning than be suprised by it later.

[groovlstk]

Sculpto,

All else aside, the one constant that worries me most about this woman is that at this point in your relationship she still doesn't see you as the person to turn to for comfort during bad times. Obviously she's had a lot of distress in her life over the past year - if she loves you and sees you in the role of her future husband you should be the first person she turns to when something bad happens. If she doesn't, then your role may be many things to her - but not as husband or even serious boyfriend.

The all-too-easy out for guys who don't want to deal with this very basic truth is to blame a woman's reluctance to confide and seek comfort on some silly ideal, such as "she's trying to protect me" or "she's very independent and doesn't want me to worry about her." Utter malarkey.

[Sculpto]

Sculpto,

All else aside, the one constant that worries me most about this woman is that at this point in your relationship she still doesn't see you as the person to turn to for comfort during bad times. Obviously she's had a lot of distress in her life over the past year - if she loves you and sees you in the role of her future husband you should be the first person she turns to when something bad happens. If she doesn't, then your role may be many things to her - but not as husband or even serious boyfriend.

The all-too-easy out for guys who don't want to deal with this very basic truth is to blame a woman's reluctance to confide and seek comfort on some silly ideal, such as "she's trying to protect me" or "she's very independent and doesn't want me to worry about her." Utter malarkey.

Groov.. also a great point, though, I am pretty sure that is not what is going on in this case.  With her Father there really isn't much I can do.  With the attack I know she is feeling really humiliated by it and once she did talk about it, while refusing to give me details about the actual event, she has not been shy at all about talking to me about how she feels about it.  We have had a discussion about "taking care" after I got back fro my trip and at first she was put off by it because she is independent, but, she has opened up a lot and is by no means shy about talking about her feelings anymore.  On the contrary.. a bit of a floodgate has been opened and she is talking to me about things she hasn't even spoken with her Mom or other friends about. 

[AnastassiaAsh]

Sculpto, what good evidence do you have that her father is sick and that she herself had that crazy episode? Other than her words or letters... You haven't seen her father or other relatives. You haven't even been to her hometown, have you? All because she gives you some excuses to not travel there... Her moodiness worries me actually more than anything. It doesn't matter that you can be moody too. Being moody will you do all the things or the like that she did while she was moody? Will you say to her what she said to you being moody? The main question is - do you or would you want to spend the rest of your life with such a moody woman? Walking on eggshells all the time? The whole world going down and up every week or so? I don't think even girlfriend-boyfriend relationship can withstand this, leave alone marriage...

Yes, lots of selfsearching, and that's very good for you. One should marry for the rest of their lives and only the best person ever for him or her. Is this the best? Even all the allegedly crazy circumstances aside, unfortunately not...

[BC]

If she creates even the smallest additional drama that will be the end of it for sure. 

This is the deal breaker.. You're probably in for a short trip.

Seems a seed was planted at a bad time but it's going to take a heck of a lot more patience than you are willing to invest per your statement.

The relationship will take care of itself one way or the other and I think the more you 'go with the flow' and let the apple fall where it should, the better off you will be in the long run.

[Diplomacy]

Sculpto:

How is she going to respect you after you took that?

You got to have respect for yourself too.

Being a punching bag is one thing, but that was straight out projecting real thoughts one way or another.

She did not see you as the pillar of strength and safe harbor.  If you are not that, it is hard for me to imagine the FSUW mentality seeing you as marriage material.

She could be very well trying to torpedo this whole thing and making you make the decision.  This way she can be right about you and men in general.

You have said she has not ever felt that strongly about a man before.  Be careful, she may very well be trying to destroy all of this and you are not the reason.  She is.

It takes 2 people to be committed and one can only delay the end. 

What is the truth or not at this point is not the issue.

[ScottinCrimea]

I get the sense here that there is some feeling of "marriage will fix all of the problems".  From my own experience and the wise words of others, I know that with marriage the good things get better and the bad things get worse.

The solution here is not to jump into marriage to fix things, but to continue to take the time to learn if her actions and moods are simply reactions to the abnormal events around her or are just her normal behavior.  My sense from what I have read is that even if all of these problems were fixed, there would still be other ones to take their place.

A relationship with a RW can certainly be a roller coaster, but what has been described here is a bit more of a "thrill" than I would be prepared to deal with for the rest of my life.  That sinking feeling in the stomach can be a rush the first few times up and down the track, or on the occasional basis, but daily trips to Magic Mountain and multiple repeat rides on the rollar coaster would tire me very quickly.

I certainly understand your desire to continue this relationship.  You have invested a lot of time and emotion in it and feel you have found a woman that, on many levels, fits with what you want and need.  I really hope that you can find a solution, but to marry quickly as a quick fix isn't the best idea.  I sense that if you married in Russia, it would be a long time, if ever, before she agreed to come to the US and this would put you in a much worse situation than you are in now.

I really see no logical reason why you shouldn't spend time with her in her hometown.  I think that this is an absolute requirement before you even think about moving the process forward.  There is something there that she doesn't want you to see, and I don't think it's just about her father.

[SANDRO43]

I get the sense here that there is some feeling of "marriage will fix all of the problems".  From my own experience and the wise words of others, I know that with marriage the good things get better and the bad things get worse.

Totally concur. Absence may make the heart grow fonder, but presence may make your stomach ache .

[Shadow]

Marriage in Russia in two weeks is possible, if you have the right connections or know where to put some money to speed up processes.

But I would insist on meeting her father before marriage. So he is a cop and he does not like the USA. You are not the USA, just one guy who happens to like his daughter. Tomsk is not the end of the world, and judgiing from your posts you have been in much more dangerous territory than Tomsk will ever be. The main concern in February is if you should use your vodka to rub frozen body parts or drink it.

I recall your first episode, and have noticed that you have improved a lot since then. Unfortunately you got hooked to a woman who is in the state you were on your first trip. It will be up to you to decide if you can (and want) help her get over it or if it will be a deal breaker.

Any way I wish you luck.

[ECOCKS]

Re: your investment of time and money

Sunk costs are just that, SUNK.  They provide no basis for continuing to pour money into an unrecoverable situation. For example, the Titanic cost several million dollars, but subsequent events made any continued investment foolhardy. 

From my reading of this info, you are being held away from the family and her hometown, undergoing severe communication issues and considerable stress, as so many others have mentioned, you should make a decision which resolves the situation instead of prolonging it.  You may be "pushing" the situation, but after all you are the one coming from the other side of the world and willing to work this through with her. She is 50% of this, but you are the other 50%.

And as others have suggested, leave the bravado behind.  You are the outsider here and any unwise comments, threats or actions are going to go very badly for you.  Staying calm and assertive is going to go a lot further than trying to take on the social and poltical power structure. Be careful around her and her family with voicing your frustration and thoughts as well, empty talk is not appreciated by this culture.
 
Good luck.

 

[Sculpto]

Thanks again to everyone for the quality responses.

Anastasia.. I understand your concern about what is really going on with her Father.  Even though I didn't talk to his doctor or see his medical reports there is no reason for her to lie about this.  And, based on the chat I just had with her I understand with much greater depth what is going on in her mind and why she is reacting the way she is.  "Father will soon die and I will go in Armenia and wear black for one year.. things different here"

The problem is simple yet complex.  Timing is all wrong!  She is already grieving and then here I am essentially giving her pressure to do things that do not fit.

She needs space and I have not been giving it.

We have stopped any plans to get married on the short term.  A trip in Feb. is still possible but she says she needs to fix her passport ( I assume this means her internal passport) so the dates are not confirmed.

Right now the girl is suffering, and yes, she is projecting it on me.  She does not want to show me her saddness, she does not want to cry, she just wants to be alone and the degree to which I have asked her to make life decisions with me has not made anything easier for her.  I suspect if I back off a little she will calm down and be more agreeable.

There isn't much I can do. 

What is kind of bizarre is I tried to end it with her, but, she doesn't want that either.  She just wants me to give her a lot more space and no pressure about marriage. 

So.. that is all there is.  I simply need to decide what is best for me.  Even though this has been really rocky for the last month, I have to think back to the year of correspondence before this happened, and the time I was with her in Moscow.  We have good memories and she was not so erratic.  I can continue without any short term commitments and see how things go meanwhile keeping other options open should any arrise. 

[Sculpto]

And since i last posted.. right after I finished chatting with her.. she wrote me again once again apologizing and begging me to forgive her for being crazy...

LOL though I ought not be laughing.

Can I deal with the erratic behavior?  I have no idea.  I need to slow way down with her...

[Ade]

And since i last posted.. right after I finished chatting with her.. she wrote me again once again apologizing and begging me to forgive her for being crazy...

LOL though I ought not be laughing.

Can I deal with the erratic behavior?  I have no idea.  I need to slow way down with her...

The last time I posted about this in your original TR I said walk away because of all the drama, but you said you liked the drama.

Take it from me, someone who has almost always been attracted to "exciting" (read drama ridden) women and suffered the consequences as a result; it is possible to meet exciting, interesting women that don't come with the drama, like the woman I'm now engaged to. Drama is not a prerequisite for excitement.

[Gator]

Sculpto,

I did not read your TR (I was busy with getting married), yet it appears from other posts that your woman has been volatile before her father became ill.  True?

And she feels that you are rushing her into marriage ("She has since on a couple of occasions expressed a certain reluctance about getting married, not because she doesn't care for me or love me, but, because she is young and has no pressing need to get married at this point.")

It seems to me based on the little that I know that she is very young.  What is her age?  Also, it seems that you have not spent a lot of face time with her.   How much time together?