Thoughts on your wife's English situation

[chivo]

Moving the words around can influence very subtly the meaning. In the first example, Я тебя люблю, you could use it to emphasize that she is the one that you love while the second would be simply to say "I love you." 

Agree.

Actually my g/f tells me that If I say "тебя" first, as in тебя Я люблю, it has an even more subtle meaning. I'm glad we're not splitting hairs here  .

One of the things that drives me crazy about learning Russian is the fact that I can ask 5 different Russians how to say something, what the rules are, and in what situations does it change, and I will get 5 different answers, not to mention that they'll give me another 5 different ways to say the phrase.

If I was to get them all together in one room, the argument might never end  . Good luck.

chivo 

[Misha]

Actually my g/f tells me that If I say "тебя" first, as in тебя Я люблю, it has an even more subtle meaning.

Exactly. I would take putting the "тебя" first as meaning, I can't stand all the others, but you I love.

[SANDRO43]

Actually, an OSV construction for emphasis is not unheard of in English, either
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT7bAoYXP3c[/youtube]
Pat Boone's Friendly Persuasion, aka. Thee I Love (1956).

[ECOCKS]

Isn't it just a little weird that the thread named Thoughts on your Wife's English Situation is going in depth on Russian grammar and construstion?

[Misha]

Isn't it just a little weird that the thread named Thoughts on your Wife's English Situation is going in depth on Russian grammar and construstion?

Well, knowing Russian grammar does help when you have to guide your wife while she is studying English.

[ECOCKS]

LOL - understood, but we're doing a lot more Russian than English - no problem, just a thought that struck me.

[SANDRO43]

Isn't it just a little weird that the thread named Thoughts on your Wife's English Situation is going in depth on Russian grammar and construCtion?

No, it's a long-established scientific truth that threads are inherently subject to:

Brownian motion, the simplest of the continuous-time stochastic (or random) processes. The mathematical model of Brownian motion has several real-world applications. An often quoted example is stock market fluctuations.

... and Internet forum posts .

[ECOCKS]

Re: Brownian Motion

Funny, in my generation we used the example of the aimless milling of the sheep flock during the night.  Oh wait, then they made Silence of the Lambs and everyone was scared to death of sheep disturbances in the night......

[SANDRO43]

Funny, in my generation we used the example of the aimless milling of the sheep flock during the night. 

In MY generation sheep SLEPT at night, in yours they were probably fed a different type of grass .

[Diplomacy]

Actually Brownian theory does apply.  Russian and lack of knowledge is underlying force that can not be seen.  The particles visible is English as the first language, since it is seen and absence Russian Unseen.

Therefore the random walk is not random, it is stimulated by unseen skill.

[ECOCKS]

However Sandro was saying Brownian Movement applies to threads in general, not the English-Russian language dynamic topic of this particular thread.

 

[Diplomacy]

Yeah but when brownian theory comes up you just got to put the knowledge to use.  Maybe first time I have heard it in 12 years 

[ECOCKS]

Don't worry young Dip (hmmm, that didn't come out quite right...), in the fullness of time you will acquire a worldly air of sophistication which only comes with age and experience (along with a mustard or ketchup stain on most of your shirts in the upper left chest area).  You will eventually be seated amongst the other worldly wise men (aka "old geezers") where you will increasingly search for opportunities to utilize the vast store of odd knowledge acquired in your somewhat aimless meanderings around the planet.  While you will never lose that compelling drive to search for a serious Trivial Pursuit gaming group, you will often be able to produce meaningless drivel that will astonish and amaze those lesser lights gathered round the campfire.  One day, you will hear those priceless words we all wait for,

"Mama, Grandpa smells funny and I think he went to sleep while eating his peas."

[Diplomacy]

Yeah but now you see why FSUW were my best option.  I am a geek stuck in a athlete's body.  Mind you, not in the same shape when I played ball in college.  The Abs are now protected from the public with a little body armor.

It is a very wide spectrum of types of girls there too.  My Mom still laughs at the fact there is in fact 2 of you out there.  She can not be happier and neither can I.  My family adores my fiance and they have only talked a lot with her.

Everyone smiles and says only I could start out planning to adopt. Then a few years later come home with the perfect wife and son for me.  Looks like the old horseshoe is still up my butt as friends say.

[roykirk]

The insecurity thing about RW speaking English is right on the money.  I'm over here right now, and a few days ago I was at a party with my gf and many of her friends.  My gf pointed out a new arrival to the party, a young woman who she said had studied English at university for several years and was absolutely "fluent."  My gf told me I should go talk to her.  Not used to having my girlfriend give me permission to talk up some other pretty woman, I headed right over.     When I introduced myself in English and began asking her about her English studies, she got this horrified look on her face and pretty much refused to speak more than a few words of English.  Maybe it was some sort of evil ploy by my gf to trip up some person she didn't like.   

My gf's English is what I consider to by fluent, and she's a confident speaker too.  The problem for her, at least initially, is going to be her accent.  It's incredibly thick and when she was in the U.S. with me last year, my friends and family had trouble understanding her.  And I'm not even sure more lessons are necessarily going to help her.  I bought her the Rosetta Stone advanced English program for Christmas, and she breezed through it in just over a day.  It might just take time and more interaction with other Americans. 

[SANDRO43]

However Sandro was saying Brownian Movement

Please don't misquote me, the RWD ToS discourages political discussions .

[Jumper]

A question for those who have been married or in long-term relationships for a while, what are your thoughts about the importance of getting her English skills up to a level for adequate employment?

Granted, we are probably going to have a debate on the meaning of adequate, but at a practical level that should mean one where she feels satisfied with the place she is making for herself in her new world.

That can be followed up with thoughts on how best to enable her to get to that level.  Lessons?  Software?  Audio tapes?  Adult Education programs?  Other ideas and resources?

She had taken English in college
and also once we were dating took many classes thruout our courtship.

functional when she arrived.
but not in her mind , and so as her confidence was not there
(and she is an incredibly over confident person in general)

it really effected her whole early adjustment and personality early on.
 i cant imagine if she hadnt alreadty been at a good english level before arriving,
the isolation she felt already would have been amplified by 1000?

once here, she really just had to be confident enough to start really interacting..
while she was out driving around and doing her own thing really from the second day here..
and speaking when she needed to in public,,
but true , more friendly,open,  and free of worry over accent and mistakes interaction ,
 came after about 6 months..
and that was a huge step in adjustment.
like night and day difference..
and it happened overnight like a light switch..


everyone and every situation is is different though?

[ECOCKS]

Please don't misquote me, the RWD ToS discourages political discussions .

Motion, Movement, 210, 220, whatever it takes.......

[HiTech]

Motion, Movement, 210, 220, whatever it takes.......

And when your wife understands this statement, she has been truly Americanized.

[GoodOlBoy]

The problem for her, at least initially, is going to be her accent.  It's incredibly thick...

The Russian accent never leaves.

I have met MANY RW/UW here in Miami.

They have been here 5, 10, 15, 20 years and they all have the same accent.... and I love it! 





GOB

[ECOCKS]

My gf's English is what I consider to by fluent, and she's a confident speaker too.  The problem for her, at least initially, is going to be her accent.  It's incredibly thick and when she was in the U.S. with me last year, my friends and family had trouble understanding her. 

Forget Rosetta Stone. 

Accent reduction is possible with some work.  However you are right, not many teachers will have the patience or skill to help her.  You don't need them though.

Get her to start singing.  Find music she likes, with understandable lyrics clearly "above" the music, print the lyrics of her favorite songs and turn her loose.  After about a month of singing along with native-speaking singers you should begin to see noticeable improvement.

I find that either country and western music OR jazz/soul/blues music seems to work best BUT it is more important to find what she likes.  Her "ownership" of the music will go a long way to her relaxation and adoption of this activity.  Also, she will probably insist on knowing a minimum amount of time to do this - I would say no less than 30 minutes a day, more if she REALLY enjoys the music.

Best women singers for this, IF she likes them, include Celine Dion, Barbara Streisand, Faith Hill, Shania Twain, Aretha Franklin, Billie Holliday, EARLY Madonna, Tina Turner, etc.  Try 4-5 of them at a time by making a CD with 1-2 songs from each selected artist.  Use each CD at least 2 weeks, more if she is haaving fun.

Good Luck

[Diplomacy]

GOB you also have to remember if they are hanging around a lot of other Russians then they are going to be speaking with more of an accent.

Also the older you are the harder it is to lose.  It is crazy to hear my fiance speaking English and my friend.  My friend has a very thick accent, but my fiance seems to have a good ear for language. 

She is also not overly insecure about language.  I told only half the people can speak English in Texas.  They are just happy when there is someone that can.  She thinks that is funny, and now she feels her "Adopting" will be much easier.

She has spoken with my Mom a lot now, and my Mom praises her on the progress.  I think it is important to make as much of a positive situation as possible. Think of people that you are very positive and patient to introduce them to first. 

I try to think about how frustrating it was to not be able to say and do things you take for granted here.  So I got a lot of patience.  The part that I do not hear as much is how frustrating it can be for me to not be able to explain in English in a manner she can understand sometimes. 

In that case I just drop it and think about other ways to say it later.  If you have two frustrated people, it is a recipe for "no good can come of this."

[HiTech]

GOB you also have to remember if they are hanging around a lot of other Russians then they are going to be speaking with more of an accent.

Oh NOOOOO, my wife is going to sound Korean. She starts English classes to day.

http://english-classes.com/

HiTech

[Misha]

Last night, my wife and I had supper at a friend's house. My wife spent close to 5 hours talking non-stop in English, only asking me to translate the occasional word in English. This is amazing progress given that she arrived knowing zero English. As noted, she has been in English language classes for the last two years and working part-time for the last 3 months. It is a great breakthrough: she feels a lot less frustration, now that she can have a conversation in English.

[Diplomacy]

Lol Dale, I do not know. Did you audit a class?  I think as long as the teacher has no accent it will be better.  Although Kimchi as another use of cabbage should be interesting. 

The Dallas Korean population is a good example.  When I am at an Korean event the accent is thick.  There is more Korean being spoken than English.  I am all about speaking the native language in cultural events. 

It is when the native tongue is then used more often than English, removing a lot of the positives of immersion.  The peer group then identifies with native tongue as language of choice, causing further detraction from immersion. 

There is nothing new and different about any of this.  It is what made America what it is, the introduction and assimilation of cultures and ideas.

It contributes to making it harder to command English.  Can it be overcome if one is dedicated to it?  Yes.  Does it matter at the end of the day?  Situational based IMO.  If you want a career versus a job, then the better your English skills.  The more opportunity there is at many vocations.

You will often see that an individual is very bright, but when you can not quickly and effectively communicate in a vocation.  This limits the "potential" of that person.  An individual has a choice, invest in themselves and improve their language skill, or blame America and how stupid it is, say there is prejudice, anti whatever nationality sentiment, or a myriad of other scenarios.

For example

If I was to move to Russia, which is a culture where more people would know English, than Americans that know Russian.  What are my job prospects?  What if we look at it with the scenario of an immigrant coming to the USA with little money?

The other issue is fighting a culture instead of accepting it.  I am sure that one is better for another post.