They (the RW's) don't take NO for an answer.

[gousa]

My attorney has repeated this to me a few times.    Perhaps this is a stubborn quality that all people have to some degree but the RW's seem to have it worse.
Since the AM is the provider of all things in the known new world is it his job to know when to say NO?    Or is it her responsibility to have some idea about when to stop or slow down on the requests and demands?   How is a balance achieved?

One thing I know is that NO is not an acceptable response to any RW request, and it will be met with extended periods of sulking, pouting, and unwilling or no sex and/or divorce.   I'm sure that women and men from other cultures do the same thing.

Sounds like a perfectly normal marriage to me, or any opinions are interesting to me.

There are often comments around here on the character of the Russian males, and certainly some leave alot to be desired in that category,  and that the RW's like men who do not crumble on domestic issues.   Personally IMHO I feel sorry for the RM's for having to put up with the RW's.     The biggest domestic issue for me is how to deal with the constantly domineering demanding RW and the continuous RW  requests and demands.

Of course I would never pursue another RW, but there seems to be a million ways to do it wrong but only one way to do it without starting a war, and that is to be
obedient to the all powerful RW.   

[GoodOlBoy]

The biggest domestic issue for me is how to deal with the constantly domineering demanding RW and the continuous RW  requests and demands.

Of course I would never pursue another RW, but there seems to be a million ways to do it wrong but only one way to do it without starting a war, and that is to be
obedient to the all powerful RW.   

Sorry OlgaH, I had to "borrow" your jpg for this one!   :crackthewhip:


GOB

[Tamara]

Gousa, you are making a number of assumptions and general comments regarding RW.  They all might be true in your particular case, but this is not enough to judge all RW the same.

Since the AM is the provider of all things in the known new world is it his job to know when to say NO?

Is this always true? Since I moved to the US, actually Canada first, I ALWAYS was the provider for myself and paid all the bills of my husband when he did not have a job. Same thing about girlfriends of mine, all work very hard and are very independent, they do not rely on their husbands.  And guess what? We are all RW, who were born and grew up in Russia.  So I would say that it greatly depends on a woman, her character, qualifications, goals and outlook on life.

One thing I know is that NO is not an acceptable response to any RW request, and it will be met with extended periods of sulking, pouting, and unwilling or no sex and/or divorce.

   

Sounds like you've had "wonderful" experiences... Again, there are many Russian women open for dialogue and compromise if you can logically explain your point of view. Simply saying NO won't do the trick, but explaining why and why not might.

Good luck! 

[Shadow]

Tell a RW she will NOT get less money, NOT stay in the old house and NOT continue to walk in her old wardrobe.
You will find them to accept NO gladly. 

[BC]

Yeah, never say no.

Try instead to give choices..

Well darling, if we buy that mink we might have to eat it.. might make good soup.. your choice.

Here's the bills we still have to pay, here's the last bank statement, here's the checkbook and here's the calculator.. you figure out if we can afford a Mercedes... I'll go relax a bit and watch a good movie.

Has never failed...

[groovlstk]

There are often comments around here on the character of the Russian males, and certainly some leave alot to be desired in that category,    

Compared to whom? YOU??? 

[apple47]

Of course I would never pursue another RW, 

       Probably,for you,a good idea.


                                                          ...Larry

[LEGAL]

Olga and I usually negotiate quite easy and during intense negotiations  we always come to an amicable resolution especially after a bottle of Russian Standard.

[Misha]

The biggest domestic issue for me is how to deal with the constantly domineering demanding RW and the continuous RW  requests and demands.

Sorry, not my experience. Unless you define demanding as telling that it is my turn to wash the dishes or asking me if I can cook something for supper, I don't really don't see my wife as domineering and demanding. However, keep in mind that we don't have a huge age difference and I did not shower my wife with gifts and fancy trips before the wedding. My wife and I married each other because we loved each other. There is not one mold for all Russian women, and if you do not want a wife as you described, you have to date women who are not like that before the wedding.

[Phil dAmore]

Personally IMHO I feel sorry for the RM's for having to put up with the RW's.     The biggest domestic issue for me is how to deal with the constantly domineering demanding RW and the continuous RW  requests and demands.

And now you know the REAL reason so many RM drink! 

[gousa]

Thanks to all for responses.

Certainly what has been in view for myself has not been the phenomenon for all.
Ex really had a problem for the word "wait".   She said, and I quote, "What is this word... WAIT I don't want this word WAIT it is unacceptable to me!"   There are countless others (divorced AMs from RWs)  around  myself  but  who waive the bother with computer forums can testify to the same treatment.    Sure glad there are other better RWs out there, ones that don't have dollar signs in their eyes.  

Still the best thing that ever happened to her is myself and the newbie hasn't bought her a car or a Corvette or a house or a ring or much else.    All he has to do now is grab ass and kiss RW butt and throw a few measly bucks at her and she grins.   Precious few could provide the  quality of life and intensive upgrades  provided in the short time that I bent over backwards and spewed out boo coo bucks like a volcano.     I fought an honest and clean  and expensive RW war for three and a half years untill my blood pressure counldn't take it anymore, hard to say Das-vee to that.   But that's an old tale and only for the recent readers.    It is true that, in general, the horror stories stand out and get more attention.

Shadow and Groov-   how the mighty have fallen....     Me said YES to almost everything accept the acquisition of all nonmarital assets and when it was blocked that is when the poop hit the fan.    Ex all fat and happy and satisfied until that point.    But that's all just water under the bridge LOL.

Groov-  I liked your topic about Plans, hilarious to me.  The lower RWs are such great planners.    PlanAAAA, PlanBBBBB, Plan CCCCCC, etc,   whaaaaaats the difference..... it's all part of the same dogpile IMO.   We're all nice guys up to a point.

Mish-  Yes others have cool experiences, glad here for that and always for you. 

[Simoni]

One thing I know is that NO is not an acceptable response to any RW request, and it will be met with extended periods of sulking, pouting, and unwilling or no sex and/or divorce.   

I did have a few dates with such girls, both in the US and Russia. Note the two words "a few."

But my wife is fun, always with a smile and a laugh, and certainly does not use sex in the way you described.

It's all about finding and winning the right woman.  Take the time to connect with the right one.

[Daveman]

The only time thus far I've had a problem with saying "No" is when they're in that "you're a man, you can't take care of yourself, shut up and let me do it" mood... resistance is futile

Perhaps I have a different future waiting in ambush but I just haven't and don't see this "NO" problem at all ... yet

[Julia G]

Here's the bills we still have to pay, here's the last bank statement, here's the checkbook and here's the calculator.. you figure out if we can afford a Mercedes... I'll go relax a bit and watch a good movie.

Has never failed...

Perfect way, but only if she has enough brain...Also i would recommend to ask when she`s gonna to get a more-paying job.

All he has to do now is grab ass and kiss RW butt and throw a few measly bucks at her and she grins.

As I can see you`re worth your wife cause you don`t respect women at all. Gentlemen don`t say such words about women. You may have reasons to be tired but ask yourself - what is my fault that I got into the situation? And don`t make your wife guilty if she cannot defend herself here.

[BC]

Perfect way, but only if she has enough brain...Also i would recommend to ask when she`s gonna to get a more-paying job.

Bez problem without a job, -doesn't need one.  With a small child in the house quite a job in itself for the foreseeable future.  We lead a somewhat traditional mom/pop household here.  Of course it's an option but not necessity. Priority is on family.

[Julia G]

Bez problem without a job, -doesn't need one.  With a small child in the house quite a job in itself for the foreseeable future.  We lead a somewhat traditional mom/pop household here.  Of course it's an option but not necessity. Priority is on family.

For sure there cannot be universal advice. But what`s about nursery/kindergardens? Or the kid is too little? Kids who attend kindergardens adapt to society better. Though it`s up to you, for sure. But if the woman doesn`t work whe doesn`t have moral right to ask for minks, I suppose. of course it doesn`t include natural needs like food and not very expensive clothes.

[BC]

For sure there cannot be universal advice. But what`s about nursery/kindergardens? Or the kid is too little? Kids who attend kindergardens adapt to society better. Though it`s up to you, for sure. But if the woman doesn`t work whe doesn`t have moral right to ask for minks, I suppose. of course it doesn`t include natural needs like food and not very expensive clothes.

Of course our child attends Kindergarten and there is plenty to do during that time keeping up with the household and keeping my belly full with fine food. LOL

I concentrate on my work (work at home) and we each share the load.  She supports me, I support her.  When it comes to purchases, we usually discuss the major ones but never ever has the discussion drifted towards who contributes how much to the financial pot.  It is simply unnecessary.

She has all the same cards I do and it all comes out of the same account.

She may decide herself later down the road to start a little business or something but that's her choice.

Hire a housekeeper, arrange afternoon child care services, come home to a freezer full of tv dinners?

No thank you.

[TheOldMan]

Wow, there's so much to this that it's hard to quantify.  It does sound like everyone is on to the general idea, though:

Did you spoil your wife with material stuff when she got here?  And why do you have trouble telling her no?  That doesn't mean you shouldn't explain why you don't think something is a good idea.  I know that my wife really learned the value of money when she got a job (waitress).  She doesn't work now but she still understands the relative worth of American money better because of her experiences.

All I can say is that your experiences are completely opposite mine.  I have to push my wife to buy stuff - even clothes, makeup and such.  She always is concerned about keeping any debt level down and making sure we are on track to save money for the next trip to Russia.  I have spent less than $1500 on jewelry for her - I keep trying to find something she likes but she always says she doesn't want any.  Mind you, I repeatedly tell her any money is 'OUR money' and she can buy things she wants (and she does here and there).  And we did just buy her a new Toyota 4Runner last month (but previously she was driving older cars: 1986 Mercedes, 1987 Nissan Sentra, 2000 Trans Am).

Hmm.  I feel kind of guilty now that I think about the jewelry thing.  Maybe I'll buy her something nice for Valentine's Day.  After all, I have spent over $3500 on guns in the past few months (with the wife's blessing).

[Julia G]

 Sorry. BC if I sounded too harsh. You`re nice man and can explain your opinion politely to people who don`t agree and I`m sure it`s one of the reasons your wife likes you so much. It`s just too strange for me, becaue when my mom born me, she went to work when I was 1 yo and I felt perfectly in nurseries. Mom did it because she cannot sit at home. So can`t I. And if come to cooking mom works 12h a day but still we have soup and everything for every day and house is in perfect order (now I took some responsibilities on me, so it became easier for me but she managed to do it pretty well in my childhood).  Of course, soup has to be warmed in microwave and just cooked would be better but women of my and mother`s kind can`t sit at home. Every type of women has its admirers and I respect wives who support their husbands the way yours does but I wouldn`t be able to live this way. If you have stable happiness and mutual satisfaction that is kind of good alternative to double-income family. Some need housewives, some are more interested in career girls so if everything is ok for both sides, it`s all right. But in such case man should care about wife`s safety - I mean retirement plan and insurance at least on your life and health, because we all are under God and if something happens it could be hard time for her.
 My mom is head of dentist department and elite-level dentist herself, I have professional ambitions too. But not every woman is as restless as we with mom are.

[BC]

Sorry. BC if I sounded too harsh.

Not to worry Julia, understand your concern and point of view.

As far as security goes, all taken care of there.. house is fully paid for, insurance paid up and we contribute to her social security account.  My prior demise is pretty much a given and did weigh heavily in my decision to carry on with our relationship.  Won't make her a multi millionaire but is enough to be able to live for a few years without income and still leave enough for her to start her own business when she is ready.  Kids will have enough for  a decent education. She is a bright woman with professional qualifications and has run her own business before so I'm not worried about that aspect.

For us it's just a matter of priorities at the moment.  Things may change in the future but we'll take it on when the time is ripe.

Different strokes for different folks, that's all.

 

[Julia G]

  Yes anyway I heard that italian society is kind of traditional when it comes to female careers. Is it true?

[BC]

  Yes anyway I heard that italian society is kind of traditional when it comes to female careers. Is it true?

Many women do of course work, but at least way down here it's more of an option. The majority own their homes outright, often passed down generation to generation so there seems not to be too great requirement for a double income family to support a mortgage.  With two earner families, most rely on babushka to take care of the kids after kindergarten.

I guess I could generalize a bit and say that folks seem to be fairly happy being able to live on less with more family time involved.  Also not too much of a stigma to keep up with the Jones's next door.  There are some however who do get into the 'credit crunch' attempting to live above their means. They of course are the ones that get 'bit' worse when times get tough.

Social medicine and low property taxes (think I paid about 15 bucks this year) also help to keep cost of living down.  This alone represents many thousands saved vs living in the US, so the family life is usually quite 'doable'.  In some places these two items alone can represent an additional income, not to mention mortgage and car payments.

Although much is reported about the financial crisis, things are pretty much business as usual here.

[groovlstk]

Social medicine and low property taxes (think I paid about 15 bucks this year) also help to keep cost of living down.  This alone represents many thousands saved vs living in the US, so the family life is usually quite 'doable'.  In some places these two items alone can represent an additional income, not to mention mortgage and car payments.

From what I've read over the last few years there's an entire generation of thirtysomething Italians living with mom and dad because they can't afford to make a go of it on their own. My wife has a friend in Moscow who is partial to Italian men but is completely baffled by the excuses that she gets from guys - even in their 40s - who still live with their parents.

[SANDRO43]

From what I've read over the last few years there's an entire generation of thirtysomething Italians living with mom and dad because they can't afford to make a go of it on their own.

Due to a combination of social and economical factors.

In my youth (early 1960s) the 'implied and undisputed sequence' was: finish school -> get a good job -> start a family. At 26 I married my fiancée seven months after joining IBM Italy (promising job ), and had little difficulty in finding and renting an apartment close to my then IBM location. Smaller and costlier than my parents', but still acceptable: to give you a rough idea, I was then earning monthly It£ 200,000 net and paying a rent of It£ 45,000, i.e. almost 1/4 of my salary.

In that period a legislation came into effect (Equo Canone = Fair Rent) aimed at protecting lessees from rapacious landlords. Over time, it froze the apartment rental market completely. When I first met her, my landlady owned some 25 apartments in the Milan area. Twenty years later, she had sold them all (mine was the last to go) because she considered il mattone (the 'brick', i.e. real estate) no longer a worthwhile type of investment.

The 1980s were characterised by a more individualistic and hedonistic approach to life, so the previously 'implied and undisputed sequence' was gradually abandoned, with most Italian mothers still pampering their male offspring (I already mentioned that the Holy Trinity here is God Father, Jesus and Mother Mary, the Holy Ghost an incomprehensible and ignored entity ).

Add to that the facts that a young couple could now get an apartment only by buying it (at ever increasing prices and mortgage rates: in 1979 my 10-year variable-rate loan started at 13.5% and remained at 14% thereafter), that part-time employment was shockingly introduced some 15 years ago, that our economy has been rather stagnant for some 10 years, and I think you have an overall explanation.

A new minister in Berlusconi's cabinet has recently called the 30-40 y.o. Italian male generation bamboccioni (overgrown pampered children ).

[BC]

A new minister in Berlusconi's cabinet has recently called the 30-40 y.o. Italian male generation bamboccioni (overgrown pampered children ).

I know several such men here, among them a lawyer and an architect, both quite successful.

Both live with their mother, and the fathers have passed on.  Both are fiance's to women who also live with their mothers and/or fathers.  All are in their 40's.  They will get married once one of the parents passes on and they can inherit the house.

Down here in the South, once quarters are assured, either by inheritance or both families pitching in (maybe building a second or third story over one parent or the other), or separate apartment/house with assurances that the not yet demised parents will be offered to share in the new living quarters.

It really sounds strange, but this 'system' really does work somehow, even though some wayward sons and daughters are often kept way past my level of tolerance (i.e. drug use, no job, no school etc).  My philosophy is that I'll support you until the day you 'finish or drop out of school or get a job and move to your own place' type guy.

'Old age' homes are quite rare here, usually limited to hospices for those last days on earth.  The stigma of leaving retired parent(s) alone is hundreds of times worse than not yet being married and living with parents.  Oftentimes a pregnancy will occur forcing the 'family hand' to seek solution.  This may also be the intent of an anxious couple 

Little of the 'guess what Ma.. I've been offered a job in California so it's about time to start looking for a home for ya!.. btw, don't worry be happy!.. we'll come visit often..' 

The inheritance laws may have something to do with all this, as I understand it 2/3rds goes to the kids and 1/3 to the wife if not yet deceased.

So maybe it's all just a matter of time.

I will say that this informal 'social policy', however harsh or strange it may sound, does keep the necessity and risks of a huge mortgage to a minimum, usually those that are from families with many siblings that have built the financial resources to build/finance on their own.

In some ways, and to keep this somewhat on topic, there may be similar circumstances in FSU.. the 'gateway' is affordable housing, best if inherited.