There are no dishonest agencies!!!

[OlgaH]

Fine, I concede your point. Let the newbies and WM go to the agencies as they clearly need a lot of help 

[groovlstk]

Why rule out ANY possible avenue of success (aside from being free)? Find her wherever you find her.  Big lake, little pond, creek, stream, river, ocean, sea... a concentrated level headed effort aimed at any of those will bring a good result.. it ain't so much the venue as it is the quality of the search (and fisherman) ...

Exactly. I've always agreed that a guy has to go with whatever method is most comfortable for him, and one size doesn't fit all.

I also think the same applies to the women on the other side - the avenues that they present themselves to possible suitors are the avenues they are most comfortable with, whether it's via agency, web ad, chat, whatever. I always recommend to guys just starting out to explore as many of these avenues as possible - using one will limit their exposure to a small portion of available women.

[Sculpto]

Why rule out ANY possible avenue of success (aside from being free)? Find her wherever you find her.  Big lake, little pond, creek, stream, river, ocean, sea... a concentrated level headed effort aimed at any of those will bring a good result.. it ain't so much the venue as it is the quality of the search (and fisherman) ...

Im not ruling out anything, just suggesting that there is a greater chance for success using the method of communication that millions of people all around the world are using instead of placing hopes in a system proven corrupt that has a profit incentive that is often contrary to the best interests of the people searching.

One of the ten commandments is "get her away from the agency as early as possible".  Well, if there is no agency in the first place...

And yes, everything else you said is 100% right.

[Vaughn]

I would say the ONLY reason to use an agency would be for someone with little or no international travel experience who wants to have all arrangements done, or, for someone with more money than time who expects and is willing to pay for an exceptional amount of service.  For everyone else, there is just no reason anymore to go that route when so many free and legitimate alternatives exist.

Sculpto, valid points all around, except for one thing that deserves clarification...many of us who were
successful via the agency route will vocally profess that the agency should be eliminated as soon as
possible after the meeting - that their main function, as wee see it anyway, is to serve as the catalyst
leading to introduction. Beyond that, they're not necessary. And yes, for the new man who's never traveled,
a full boat of service may just be what he requires....transportation, interpretation, to tuck him in at night.

The point about insincere women - of course, they will be found via any method, I agree. What tickles me
is how men will lock onto a photo, like the now-famous Zhanna, and then deny all the negative feedback
about her agency in their quest to support the fantasy they harbor. Rarely will they come on board and
ask, "OK, which of you guys recommend which agency and why?" and then proceed to check out their
listings. It almost always happens the other way. There are good agencies out there who have intro'd
many dozens of couples, sometimes hundreds of couples (Maksim's is a prime example) yet guys will ogle
a babe-foto on We'reGonnaPickYourCarcassClean dot com and gladly empty their accounts of hard earned cash.

Proven agency with real women - or - facebook/vkontakte winks and PMs ....

Again, it's an individual choice. 

[Misha]

LOL! Nice photo Olga 

[Daveman]

Comeon Dave.. in every lake you have to understand those patterns.  The size of the lake is irrelevant.  What is more important is the ability to communicate unfettered and as soon as somoene stops letting third parties intervene in the communication the doors to more realistic expectations opens.

And I have to concede those points...  absolutely agree there... and there are pitfalls and heroic paths to glory in any venue.  Okay how about this.. the more time on the ground over there a man has, the more likely he is to be able to navigate the maze of any method...  and maybe the more he reads RWD the more paranoid he'll become! LoL    j/k  

Note to Newbies -- None of this is rocket science, it's two people falling in love.. We (I) tend to over analyze everything. Yes, there are some subtle cultural differences in the process that experience (and RWD) will teach you... but you never really know when/where that ole bug will bite you.  Relax and enjoy the ride.

[Vaughn]

the more likely he is to be able to navigate the maze of any method... 

Cap'n King, here...I navigated two mazes. Found Elena here on Facebook, and Katya via OlgaBride Agency.
Can I do simultaneous K-1s or do I have to toss one back? HELP !!

[OlgaH]

Note to Newbies -- None of this is rocket science...

[youtube=425,350]O8kG2g8BMJs[/youtube]

[Simoni]

Ah, but Misha, you know as well as I do that knowing the Russian language eliminates the horde of
weekend fishermen....  as for pools, I preferred the well-stocked trout stream over an ocean full of
virtual unknowns. All these metaphors - my wife would crucify me at the town center, LOL.

We could argue the point both ways until kingdom come - and there really is no way proven to be
superior. Each method has its merits and drawbacks, and I see your points clearly. It's just my
distinct feeling that offering such a large pool to a newbie clouds the desired target.

There are very astute individuals here that would argue for a natural chance meeting - to toss out
the idea of ANY profile at all. So where does that leave us? Hopefully, these pro/con discussions
will compel the uninitiated to think for himself, and select the method that feels like home.

Good post, Vaughn.  I think the key here is to repudiate claims that agencies are somehow bad places to meet girls.  The fact is they are excellent.  Dating agencies are the highest reported means to success in this search.

[Simoni]

I would say the ONLY reason to use an agency would be for someone with little or no international travel experience who wants to have all arrangements done, or, for someone with more money than time who expects and is willing to pay for an exceptional amount of service.  For everyone else, there is just no reason anymore to go that route when so many free and legitimate alternatives exist.

What a crazy statement!  Personally, I have been through two passports and added extra pages, too.   My international travel experience led me to the conclusion that the best place to find a girl was in a large city with a big agency.   It is the most efficient and cost effective way to go. 

[Simoni]

Well, I will use a fishing metaphor to simplify things. Do you prefer to fish in a small pool with crawling with boats and people fishing, or a large lake where you are the only one with his rod and reel? I preferred the latter

The reality is that the last agency I used, if you want to use your fishing metaphor, had so many fish in it that it did not matter how many guys were there beside me fishing.   Lots and lots of fish, real beauties, too!  And no need to paddle all over the lake; just sit right there in the shade and cast away.  Almost every cast had a strike.   Got to choose which one to keep.

[Simoni]

Exactly. I've always agreed that a guy has to go with whatever method is most comfortable for him, and one size doesn't fit all.

I also think the same applies to the women on the other side - the avenues that they present themselves to possible suitors are the avenues they are most comfortable with, whether it's via agency, web ad, chat, whatever. I always recommend to guys just starting out to explore as many of these avenues as possible - using one will limit their exposure to a small portion of available women.

Good post, Groove.  Back in the day, you and I tried many of these.  In the end, we hit with different approaches, and were successful.  It just proves your point-- multiple approaches are good.

[Sculpto]

What a crazy statement!  Personally, I have been through two passports and added extra pages, too.   My international travel experience led me to the conclusion that the best place to find a girl was in a large city with a big agency.   It is the most efficient and cost effective way to go. 

And what i am saying is times have changed.  More and more people in the FSU have access to the internet which means it is easier than ever to make contact with lots of people.  My first trip to Ukraine was completely independent, no agencies, no advance correspondence.. I just went, hung out and met people.  I only got involved with agencies afterwards thinking it might give me a better chance.  All I did was waste time and money.  Yet, via the other methods I have met a great girl and lots of correspondence with others.  There has been a very distinct difference in the quality of communication with ladies I found from non-agency sources.  I will say however.. it is harder to get their attention sometimes.. but I actually find that to be more honest than the automatic canned responses that come from agency girls.

But.. the bottom line is whatever works works.. there is no single proven method and there never will be.  

[Simoni]

My first trip to Ukraine was completely independent, no agencies, no advance correspondence.. I just went, hung out and met people.  

 There has been a very distinct difference in the quality of communication with ladies I found from non-agency sources.  I will say however.. it is harder to get their attention sometimes.. but I actually find that to be more honest than the automatic canned responses that come from agency girls.
  

My first experiences were the same as your, Sculpto.   I met my first russian gf on ICQ.  I then visited her, and it did not work out.  After a few more strikeouts with long letter writing campaigns to EM girls spread all over the fsu, I tried the agency route and was successful. 

In terms of your "canned letter" comments, I advice against too many letters.  Get to a large agency in a big city and meet the girls firsthand, instead of multiple letter writing over months.  It's ok to write 2 or 3 letters to a girl, but then meet her.

Agencies remain the number one way guys here at RWD connect with their girls.

[Daveman]

Cap'n King, here...I navigated two mazes. Found Elena here on Facebook, and Katya via OlgaBride Agency.
Can I do simultaneous K-1s or do I have to toss one back? HELP !!

LoL!

I think first on the agenda for Cap'n King and his lady friend is to visit a doctor and get on some antibiotics as rapidly as possible!

  :evil:

[BillR]

  It's fortunate that you never had to. While I never was paranoid about being fleeced, I was
able to contact other customers, to secure my lady's home phone and talk with her personally.
There were no excuses, no secrets, no joining fees, no obstacles to thwart us from breaking free of them.

  And so I endorse them mightily when approached. Six years later, they continue to operate without a
complaint that I've noticed. Are they unique? Heck, no - but they're by no means run-of-the-mill. Of course,
if it's diva Zhanna one desires, you won't find her there - they only list real and available ladies.

  Call me biased, but they really treated us well, and made an honest & reasonable profit. They'll be around
long term introducing real folks. Others will keep peddling fantasy to the naive.

Who is this "diva Zhanna"?

[KievHarmony]

Much is heard about 'dishonest' agencies..

We strive to discover and strike them down.

But in the end, considering that they do serve a good purpose for 99% of men that never get on a plane in the first place isn't it a bit unreasonable that the 1% should complain so much about such
'disservice'?

In my business I would love to have a 99% customer satisfaction rate, and that is exactly what is being provided.

Is this all just a customer / service mismatch?

For 50K USD, I'd bust my butt finding the right woman for the right man.. for 5 bucks a letter.. well screw you.

I say you're getting exactly what you are willing to pay for.

So you think we are going to fail because we tell people the truth ? (cost between 15k-20k for the whole quest)
I think there are two markets, one for people who will never take the plane and one for others...Agencies should ask a copy of an international passport before selling services...

[CONCRETE RIVER]

So you think we are going to fail because we tell people the truth ? (cost between 15k-20k for the whole quest)
I think there are two markets, one for people who will never take the plane and one for others...Agencies should ask a copy of an international passport before selling services...

i believe this without a shred of doubt.