A UW's View of A Failed Marriage

[ambach123]

I received the following email, third or fouth email, from a Ukrainian woman, I met on line. It gives her view of a failed relationship with AM. I have deleted her name and anything identifying her.
It is important for us to know what to avoid in a relationship; apparently raising the voice is very disturbing for UW/ RW. Good grooming is another thing they give importance to.
Of course this is only her side of the story, the AM would have another side.
Personally I have no interest in her, someone who bad mouths previous relationships is bad news.
Note what she says about the UM.

Here it goes, I copy and paste her letter.

I was married once, didn't last long, just 2 years. I was married to an American man, so I know a little bit about American life, I've seen some places in USA. Also I know how American men can lie. Not a good idea with me:)
My English is not perfect, still learning. The most important thing is the practice. I know you can say- oh, you lived in USA for 2 years, that is why you write English so well. NO, people can live in USA for decades and still don't speak any language. I prefer to learn it, so I can express my thoughts and understand others.

As for my marriage. I divorced my husband. He was very impulsive, easy irritated person. I like patient, well-balanced man, who can talk first and then raise his voice (better not do it at all). I like quiet conversation. He wanted to wait with having a baby ( he had 2 boys and 2 marriages before - about the second one I found out after we were married, surprise). I've noticed that he's been changed - no work outs, didn't pay attention to his appearance, his nutrition and he wanted to do as he planned everything. I tried to talk about, but he become mad about like if you married me you have no right to say anything, but only nice words. He was proud to be married to me and wanted everybody (especially men, friends) be jealous about. I was very upset about all these things. I also wanted to be proud of my man,but he acted so silly so I couldn't stand it. You know it's all hard to explain, it was 9 years ago. He did lot's of good things for me and I appreciate him for that. We lived in a very nice area, huge new building, nice car, nice things, travelled a lot, everything was wonderful, but his character was too hard for me. He yelled at me, but I strongly believe that it's not the way to talk to anybody especially when you deal with beloved person. So I really doubted his love to me and then I stop feeling anything for him. Even when I found out he was unfaithful to me, I didn't get mad....

I had a few dates after that, once my heart was broken very deep. I decided no to date local men, rude, unfaithful, stupid idiots, absolutely not serious. I know there are many such men in other countries, but at least I can find a man who wants a family very much. Here they want only to have sex.

Well, what do you say about my letter? Enough info for now or you need some details?

[ScottinCrimea]

Sounds like another classic example of two people who didn't get to nkow each other well before they got married.  Neither of them had any clue about the expectations of the other.

[Faux Pas]

She appears honest and forthright to me. I don't detect any bitterness from her writings but perhaps a shadow of regret

[boaterguy]

I must say I didn't see anything wrong with her letter. Looks to me like she is making sure she doesn't make the same mistake twice. She is looking for a real relationship otherwise she would be in the US milking the dude for alimony!

[Vaughn]

I'm surprised she was unaware of his second marriage. It was my understanding that such factual data
with evidence of dissolution was required on K-1 paperwork, specifically the G-325a. And such information
was fair game at interview time, regardless of locale...

ambach, I fail to detect any badmouthing as you mentioned. In fact, she launches into some of the
happier events as well. I've seen far worse, replete with name calling.

[ambach123]

She describes major reason for the breakup as " raised his voice " and " yelled at me".
American couples have shouting matches all the time; if the UW/RW think that AM will change his nature, they are mistaken.
I am surprised that she did not know that before marriage.

FWIW most psychologist are in favor of heated conversations, it is cathartic. The difference may be that both AM and AW shout at each other in American couples, she probably did not.

[ScottinCrimea]

FWIW most psychologist are in favor of heated conversations, it is cathartic.

Care to provide a reference for this?

[Vaughn]

Just my opinion, ambach, but shouting matches are not the norm for American couples, and I think
your statement about psychologists favoring this (for therapeutic reasons?) is unfounded.

Getting back to the UW, she didn't like the yelling, we agree there. But the yelling was only a symptom
of the problem - his overall behavior attempted to undermine her self-esteem. THAT was too much to
deal with.

[facetrock]

Every married couple that I knew of that argued and yelled at each other always ended up getting divorced.

[Daveman]

Care to provide a reference for this?

Actually, I remember a lecture on this some years ago at GSU.  Some personality types can do it without taking offense or being hurt. Others can be cut to the core by such heated discussion, especially if the insults begin flying.  Some can really let go and say whatever comes to mind and it is a cathartic release for both.  I can't give a reference but I do remember this discussion.

Supposedly, the more heated, the more cathartic. I'm not sure I buy it.  I know I can get really heated over matters of trust (the only thing that really pisses me off to a heated state) and the outcomes are rarely positive.  I guess I should have all potential partners take a personality test to see which methods of conflict resolution fit their profile.  Actually, that's probably not a bad idea.  

The lady in the letter didn't seem overly critical, but she obviously doesn't have the "heated discussion gene".  She wasn't happy with the guy and told her reasons why. Whether that was the real situation or not is a different question.  RW/UW can have some very strange perceptions of reality and bizarre rationale for their conclusions - at least strange for us.  

I don't know how many times with my various relationships, too many to count, I've thought "how/when/where/why on earth did you come up with THAT?" .. from her side it's real, from my side it was from another planet and absolute nonsense.  

[facetrock]

  The letter sounds sincere and not to critical. But its just a letter, and anyone can type any kind of story they want. If it is true, the guy was a control freak. I am sure if you talked to him it would be a totaly different story. But I like the part about the nice things he did. New car, nice place to live, nice things,traveling.......... That part makes me think those things were very very important to her at the time. By her admitting that those were his best features makes me think she had a little bit of her own agenda.

[dobradavid]

She describes major reason for the breakup as " raised his voice " and " yelled at me".
American couples have shouting matches all the time; if the UW/RW think that AM will change his nature, they are mistaken.
I am surprised that she did not know that before marriage.

FWIW most psychologist are in favor of heated conversations, it is cathartic. The difference may be that both AM and AW shout at each other in American couples, she probably did not.

I disagree - perhaps in your circles couples shout at each other - they do not in mine. 

[dobradavid]

Just my opinion, ambach, but shouting matches are not the norm for American couples, and I think
your statement about psychologists favoring this (for therapeutic reasons?) is unfounded.

Getting back to the UW, she didn't like the yelling, we agree there. But the yelling was only a symptom
of the problem - his overall behavior attempted to undermine her self-esteem. THAT was too much to
deal with.

Bear in mind that we don't know what constitutes "yelling" to her. The emphasis in a voice can easily be misinterpreted accross cultures.

[ScottinCrimea]

Bear in mind that we don't know what constitutes "yelling" to her. The emphasis in a voice can easily be misinterpreted accross cultures.

Good point.  I know with my children, anytime I expressed disagreement with them, they interpreted this as yelling, even if said in a quiet tone.

[Sculpto]

I think if she would even write about such personal events, especially the fact the they represent failure, is a sign of trust on her part.  I see nothing wrong with the letter, on the contrary.

[Vinnvinny]

Good point.  I know with my children, anytime I expressed disagreement with them, they interpreted this as yelling, even if said in a quiet tone.

My kids just yell ... period. 

[Vinnvinny]

.... and I have 6. At times, that's a lot of yelling.

[Ade]

Personally I have no interest in her, someone who bad mouths previous relationships is bad news.
Note what she says about the UM.

And what is she supposed to say exactly? That he was the most wonderful man in the world? My guess is that you wouldn't want a woman that would criticise a man because you're afraid of getting similar criticism yourself. 

Personally, I think her letter was more than reasonable and I would have no issues with anything she said if she'd written to me, in fact I'd be very appreciative that she'd been so open.

She describes major reason for the breakup as " raised his voice " and " yelled at me".
American couples have shouting matches all the time; if the UW/RW think that AM will change his nature, they are mistaken.
I am surprised that she did not know that before marriage.

From previous posts it's been fairly obvious that your view on relationships is not what I'd call normal and the fact that you think verbal abuse is normal and a good thing is beyond me. Take a read of her letter again; apparently he raised his voice every time he was questioned or criticised - do you think that is normal or a sign of a seriously controlling personality probably with an inferiority complex?

FWIW most psychologist are in favor of heated conversations, it is cathartic. The difference may be that both AM and AW shout at each other in American couples, she probably did not.

I'd also like to see a reference for this; my guess is that you've twisted the meaning somewhere. Yes, heated discussion that both partners willingly participate in can be good if it's a constructive means to find a compromise but that's not what I'm reading happened in her letter.

And FWIW, negative arguments which end up with personal insults are never a good thing and grief with long term recriminations can result.

[ambach123]

Her painting all Americans with a broad brush disturbed me.

" Also I know how American men can lie. "

As if UW never lie. She already believes that American men are liars. So why she is looking for another American man?

She has even worse choice words for UM.

I think such women have difficulty finding any man who would fit their requirements of a " perfect " man.

Notwithstanding that her liar American ex husband gave her a good life.

[Ade]

Her painting all Americans with a broad brush disturbed me.

" Also I know how American men can lie. "

As if UW never lie. She already believes that American men are liars. So why she is looking for another American man?

She was a married to one so I guess she really does know how American men can lie. Are you reading into this that she thinks all American men lie? For one thing, I don't, for another, this is a UW who is writing English as a second language and you are inferring things into an imprecise statement; it's more a refection of what you are projecting than anything else. 

[kievstar]

Dating agencies do not attract only the best women Ukraine or Russia has to offer.  Just like the USA internet dating sites.  Sometimes you have to sort through the weeds to find a gem.  But there are plenty of gems.  

[SMS60]

But I like the part about the nice things he did. New car, nice place to live, nice things,traveling.......... That part makes me think those things were very very important to her at the time. By her admitting that those were his best features makes me think she had a little bit of her own agenda.

I dont think she expected this. Its hard to say but I dont gather this was all important to her.

She describes a typical situation you see with "some" men. They think they need to have all the bling to attract a women. Once they have her hooked or say "I do" things change overnight. I would say if you asked her about the fights she would say they did not occur until after they were married.

Ambach write her back and ask in your letter if they had fights before they were married. Where does she live now?

She is telling you in the letter what she expects or wants in her next relationship. She learned some lessons.

[ScottinCrimea]

Her painting all Americans with a broad brush disturbed me.

" Also I know how American men can lie. "

As if UW never lie. She already believes that American men are liars. So why she is looking for another American man?

She has even worse choice words for UM.

I think such women have difficulty finding any man who would fit their requirements of a " perfect " man.

Notwithstanding that her liar American ex husband gave her a good life.

You think it doesn't disturb anyone else that you paint all FSUW with a broad brush?

You think it perfectly fine to search for a woman that would fit your requirements of a "perfect" woman  but not okay for "such women"? )Just who are "such women" anyway?)

You honestly think that giving a woman a "good life" will compensate for all of your other inadequacies?

[GoodOlBoy]

She describes major reason for the breakup as " raised his voice " and " yelled at me".
American couples have shouting matches all the time; if the UW/RW think that AM will change his nature, they are mistaken.
I am surprised that she did not know that before marriage.

FWIW most psychologist are in favor of heated conversations, it is cathartic. The difference may be that both AM and AW shout at each other in American couples, she probably did not.

What a bunch of rubbish and nonsense.

Of course I would expect this crap from you Ambach123.

I will make sure to yell and scream at my RW tonight when she comes home from the "insane" asylum (business) she works at. Sounds like a great idea. Then I will be in the same boat this schlup is in. NO WIFE.

I will also take your words of wisdom to heart if we happen to have a child. Oh yes, this is a perfect environment (2 people screaming at each other) to foster another "dysfunctional" member of the human race.

But then again, I read on one of your previous posts that you were "Turkish" and felt like one of the "oppressed" masses.

REF: Re: Law's Ukraine Trip Report Page #6
« Reply #80 on: December 28, 2008, 10:09:57 PM » Quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As promised Law I would not comment on your trip report, but I will tell you about my experiences, without knowing that you would not understand my posts.

I am a minority like you, second generation Turkish American.... I have been communicating with a half Slavic and half Tatar girl; I plan to see her next month in Istanbul Turkey. We have discussed race, she has a Muslim name, she found living in Moscow and St. Petersburg challenging. She now lives in Tatarstan. Tatars are ethnically Turkic. Of course our skin colors and features are similar. I found her on bride.ru. ( You can argue that I should not marry someone who looks similar to me, otherwise why go to FSU).


FYI....I have traveled to Turkey (Istanbul and Antalya) and I have seen first hand how Turkish men treat their women (IMO...like garbage).

So it doesn't surprise me at all that you think "mixing" it up a little with your future wife is OK.  


GOB

[groovlstk]

Her painting all Americans with a broad brush disturbed me.

" Also I know how American men can lie. "

Anyone who's read Ambach's pathetically misinformed and stereotyped views on FSU people knows that from day one he's painted them with a brush as broad as a three zambonis driving abreast - they are all looking for a rich guy, they all think xyz, they all want abc - yet here he is, offended and high and mighty over a single comment about Americans from a spurned woman. 

If the situation were reversed and his views were known by those he pursues, the only women who would talk to him would be scammers - which is probably the case anyway.