Is it Real ?

[ScottinCrimea]

I don't see in any way that you are looking for a "fair" prenup.  It gives you everything and her nothing. What is evident is that you want to use it, more than anything, to blackmail her into staying with you and into behaving as you wish while you are together.  It's merely an instrument of control for you.  The idea that she must just go home with the clothes on her back disgusts me.

I find it very interesting that you are avoiding letting her see the prenup until the last possible minute allowed by law.  You plan to get her over here on the 90 day k-1, then hit her with it after she has left her job, her family and her country, is in a very difficult period of assimilation and with a wedding planned in 30 days..  Of course you say you will provide a Russian attorney to explain it to her, but you will be the one paying him so he will be working for you, not her.

I see nothing even close to love in these actions.  In fact, it's about as sleazy as it gets.

This quote says volumes

I disagree that I risk nothing, I have bring her here, go through some very difficult years in her assimilation etc.

You have no clue what is really involved for her, and every thing you write and every action you are taking smacks of someone who is extremely self centered and has no business bringing another person into his life.

[BC]

All of this is not very complicated, relatively cut and dried, why all the fuss?

No fuss, just curious as to which agreement terms might not apply well.

I haven't seen any book written for prenupts with a foreign bride on a K1.

There are just so many differences that I think you may be fooling yourself.. Cut n dried for the AW down the street will turn into a little jungle with RW.

But yeah, go ahead and use the enclosed CD, print a copy and head to the notary 30 days ahead of time.  She and her lawyer will luv you for it.

[ScottinCrimea]

ambach, I just found a huge flaw in your plan, one that tells me that you really haven't done as much research as you are suggesting.  According to Nevada law, you must be a resident there for a minimum of six weeks before you can file for divorce.  Just because you get married there doesn't mean you can automatically file for divorce there.  It has to be done in the county in which you reside.  You better start reading up on the Massachusetts divorce laws, because if you do actually get married, I think you will need to know them before long.

I just did a quick check on Massachusetts divorce law regarding prenups and with the way you are intending to write it and present it to her, the odds are that some or all of it will be declared invalid.

[BC]

ambach, I just found a huge flaw in your plan, one that tells me that you really haven't done as much research as you are suggesting.  According to Nevada law, you must be a resident there for a minimum of six weeks before you can file for divorce.  Just because you get married there doesn't mean you can automatically file for divorce there.  It has to be done in the county in which you reside.  You better start reading up on the Massachusetts divorce laws, because if you do actually get married, I think you will need to know them before long.

I just did a quick check on Massachusetts divorce law regarding prenups and with the way you are intending to write it and present it to her, the odds are that some or all of it will be declared invalid.

shhhhhh... Scott. We may be intervening in something that is best left alone.. 

[ScottinCrimea]

shhhhhh... Scott. We may be intervening in something that is best left alone.. 

You're right BC.

Ambach, I apologize for spoiling the surprise.

[ambach123]

You can get married in Nevada, and have a pre nup under the Nevada laws, you don't have to live there or get a divorce there. The judge applies the Nevada laws.

I have learnt a thing or two about prenups; just because you have one, paves the way for a settlement if it comes to that. You really never have to use it.

The law does not distinguish AW from RW.

If we both are committed to a marriage, it would work; if either one of us does not have the committment, it would fail. Needless to say that this pursuit is very difficult, and finding one may be only a part of it, you have to make it work, I need to weigh that very carefully.

Don't get too excited, I don't plan to do anything immediately, I am looking into my options other than RW, including my own backyard.

[Globetrotter]

Ambach, you ask a question everyone would like to know..."Is it real"...when only you can know, or make a best guess.  Prenups are good in that you are telling her you are not willing to "buy her", but why tell her now when you know her only for a month?  Would you discuss marriage with an AM woman you only knew for a month?  Also, I think prenups are enforced, or challenged depending on what state a divorce is filed in, and not where you had it written.

Nobody here knows you...so how can anybody advise you on your "risk/reward" scenario?  If you are contemplating marriage after a whole month and discussing prenups, do you have a big "wife hole" in your heart?  Do you relate to people well, do you treat them with care and respect, can you go an extreme extra distance for your foreign bride?  Can you live up to her expectations, can you chance a 50/50 chance you may succeed or fail?  Is she your best friend?

Are you a 5 and she a 10?  Are you 50 while she is 30?  You can't believe most of what anyone writes, as you must be shown as you must show the same to her in the way of actions and intentions.  How do you treat others, how does she?  Can you afford this...her?

Me and my last doctor squeeze knew each other for 1.5 years, and after 3 visits and 7 months exchanged I love you's.  But I also told her whereby this was nice to say and to hear, I could not make a move until I was "in love with her"...which is a big, big difference and another place alltogether.  We didn't get there, so we moved on.

You must ask yourself, what is success.  Any dope can get married, and be in lust, and it's easier to get a marriage licence than a drivers license.  It just amazes me when some come on here and the 42 year old asks the forum why his 19 year old squeeze dumped him, or the Florida guy living in squallor in a cabin on a river can't understand why his FSU doctor wife won't buy second hand clothes like he does!

What are you able to do?  What are you willing to do?...2 very different questions.

Funny, some here consider their marriages a success because they have been married for 3 years, or 5 or 10 and things are going well.  I say, so far, so good, and I wish all continued success.  However, you don't know until you have gone through every possible scenario and you are still together, still support each other, love each other, and are still best friends.  My parents had this and were married 60 years...so that to me is success.

Just consider women the world over the same, and the FSU the greatest singles bar in the world, but it costs $2G's to walk in the door, and then the price goes up.

Answer some of my questions to yourself that I have posed to you here, then look into the mirror and answer your own question.

Good Luck!    

[Misha]

At this time and in future meetings I have to evaluate her devotion.

I don't know, sometimes when I read your posts, I get the feeling that you are not looking for a wife but a woman to worship you.

[ambach123]

Misha, it should have been OUR devotion to each other. I don't think it would work without it.

[Misha]

Misha, it should have been OUR devotion to each other. I don't think it would work without it.

I presume that I would have to read the prenuptial agreement to evaluate just how devoted you are to her 

[Gator]

Ambach,

This is contrived buuullsheeeeet (using my wife's accent).  And you have little self-confidence,  certainly not enough for a RW.

Has any man here at RWD told you that you are going about this correctly?  Think about that.

Don't marry a woman unless you truly love her.  If you truly love her, you will not want to punish her if the two of you decide to end your marriage.  Sending her back to Russia against her will is severe punishment.  

She should be given enough support at a divorce to continue her new life in America for another year at least.  A man who cared about a woman would feel such was deserved.  And by the way, a judge will likely hold the same opinion.

Another word of advice, be sure she executes the prenup before she departs Russia.  Otherwise, a judge could interpret that she signed under coercion rather than her free will.  And when she arrives, buy her a car, get her gainfully employed ASAP, help her obtain a green card on a fast track, and don't try to control her.  In other words, do everything to make her free so that she could fly away if she wished.  And if she stays, you have the love of your life until you do something stupid.

Kuna's and Misha's and other's assessments, although harsh,  are closer to the truth than you might imagine.  My impression is that you lack self-confidence.  You are approaching this as a business deal rather than an emotional coupling.  I suggest that you restrain yourself from such contrived tests of love and motive, and instead concentrate on winning her heart (and deciding if your heart is ready to commit for life).

[ambach123]

Gator, I am sure you have read the threads on this board including " Wife Splits". These are sad stories; I am sure these people who went into marriages were full of hope, only to cut sorry figues. As I see most of them married either gold diggers or GCG, and there were enough signs but AM never saw them. These must be weeded out. If I can't weed the out, I will move on.

Would you consider jumping from airplane without a parachute sign of prudence?

I can only quote what Donald Trump has said " Only a complete idiot would marry without a prenup ". Idiots in our society usually don't have much to worry about anyway, so for them it is irrelevant.

In case you did not know, our society (and these women) judge men by our socio-economic status in life; whether it is right or wrong is irrelevant, that is a fact.

[ScottinCrimea]

Gator, I am sure you have read the threads on this board including " Wife Splits". These are sad stories; I am sure these people who went into marriages were full of hope, only to cut sorry figues. As I see most of them married either gold diggers or GCG, and there were enough signs but AM never saw them. These must be weeded out. If I can't weed the out, I will move on.

The issue of the prenup should come up long after the weeding process has taken place, not as a tool to do so.

[Misha]

Gator, I am sure you have read the threads on this board including " Wife Splits". These are sad stories; I am sure these people who went into marriages were full of hope, only to cut sorry figues. As I see most of them married either gold diggers or GCG, and there were enough signs but AM never saw them. These must be weeded out. If I can't weed the out, I will move on.

What you are overlooking is the fact is that too often these men in train wrecks lustily rushed into marriages with women they barely knew. A prenup is not a magic talisman. It won't save you from a bad marriage, and worst case scenario won't save you from claims of domestic violence.

If you really want to avoid gold diggers or GCG, here is a radical thought: slow down and get to know any woman before proposing. So far in the past couple of months IIRC, you were engaged to one woman after knowing her for a week and dumped her because she was too religious. Now, you are likely engaged once more as you are already planning on where to get married and how to best have her sign a prenup. Sorry, but there seems to be a pattern here, and it ain't very pretty IMHO"

[Gator]

Ambach,

I have a prenup. I recommend a prenup.

The differences between your prenup and mine:

-  Our prenup was drafted by a highly qualified attorney in Florida, our state of residence.
-  My wife agreed to it while in Russia after consulting with her Florida attorney and Moscow attorney.
-  A divorce does not compel her to return to Moscow.
-  It protects her in key ways (e.g., inheritance), rather than being unilaterally protective of me.
-  I did not use the prenup as an early test of motivation.

BTW, I can only imagine some of your other "tests."  You really need more self-confidence.  If you don't feel it, take more time until you do, or walk away. Your future wife is a real human being, not a tangible acquistion.

[ambach123]

Misha, in my limited readings of this board, there are a lot of train wrecks, but I did not notice much difference in how much time they took to get to know each other as THE deciding factor. In my readings I noticed train wrecks to be equal opportunity disasters, regardless of the time spent before marriage. Actually some did very well with a short courtship.

[Misha]

I did not notice much difference in how much time they took to get to know each other as THE deciding factor.

Of course not, because you seem to be rushing into marriage from what I gather with women that you barely know. How long have you known this current woman? How much time have you spent with her?

[brucen36]

I don't see why there is such a rush to get married.  If you have such great assets to protect by a prenup (which is understandable), why not use some of that to spend a lot more time with her in her country like this guy Muckrack did.  Look where he is now.

So if you do get a prunup, would she get half of accumulated wealth during the marriage?  This seems fair given that she is at such a big disadvantage in a new country and completely dependent on you.

B

[Globetrotter]

Ambach, I re-read your opening post and now see that you wrote and spoke for a whole month, then shacked up for a whole week!  And you are already discussing marriage...which a judge sees as the formation of a corporation?  And so now you put yourself in the basket of the lucky one week wonders?  Do you actually think that not  knowing each other on every possible level and not being able to communicate at the highest level imaginable is an advantage?  Sorry man, sounds like big, big "wife hole" to me, and that you will eventually join the "train wrecks" that you have only so far read about.  Maybe you should read my previous post again and reconsider what you are doing, and if you really even belong in this arena.  Sorry but I can't see anything wrong with anybodys opinion that has responded to you thus far.   

[ScottinCrimea]

Misha, in my limited readings of this board, there are a lot of train wrecks, but I did not notice much difference in how much time they took to get to know each other as THE deciding factor. In my readings I noticed train wrecks to be equal opportunity disasters, regardless of the time spent before marriage. Actually some did very well with a short courtship.

ambach, if you look at the study Dan presented, it shows clearly that marriages with courtships lasting less than four months have a much higher rate of failure than those with more.  Sure some did very well with a short courtship, but note that not one of these is agreeing with your approach.  In fact, not a single member here thinks that you are going about this the right way.

You go about it like a business arrangement.  You screen suitable candidates, you spend a week with them to see if they are compatible sexually, you put them through a series of tests and then if they pass you coerce them into a contract where they bear all of the risks and you bear none.  You minimize the time they have to evaluate the contract because you know that any reasonable person who did a thoughtful evaluation would see that the contract is extremely one-sided.  You also minimize the time spent visiting them because you want to minimize the up front costs.  You justify this by selectively viewing the results of others and the time spent in the "courtship".  You want total control over the relationship and use financial means to achieve this.  You even want control of her thoughts as the idea of a woman who is even a little religious, who recognizes a God other than you and spends time in church rather than at your beck and call is not acceptable.  She is not entitled to her own thoughts and beliefs and you are not willing to grant her this privilege. I see nothing in your posts that suggests love is a part of the equation, though devotion to you is a necessity.  Of course there is a huge difference between love and devotion, and it appears that your devotion to her only goes as far as her willingness to submit to your control.

This is not about finding the love of your life and an equal partner, it is all about filling a wife vacancy; someone who can take care of your home, provide good sex on demand, and provide you with children, with the condition that if she does not live up to all of your requirements, she will be sent home with nothing but the clothes on her back.

Hire a housekeeper, engage a prostitute as the need arises, pay a surrogate mother to bear you children, but please don't subject any woman to the expectation of assuming all three duties with nothing in return but room and board.

[Gator]

I don't see why there is such a rush to get married.  If you have such great assets to protect by a prenup (which is understandable), why not use some of that to spend a lot more time with her in her country like this guy Muckrack did.  Look where he is now.

Muckracker is a success story:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1976.0

So if you do get a prunup....

Your misspelling really made me laugh because that is exactly what Ambach needs. 

On second thought, he needs more than a pruning.  Based on his decision making and opinions as expressed over the past year, Ambach would benefit from a lobotomy.

Ambach, I realize that you are serious, and so am I when I suggest that you seek help.  I believe heart-to-heart talks with a psychologist would benefit you.

[Globetrotter]

Ambach, sorry this post has taken such a turn.  After all, all you did was ask, "Is it real."

So, to recap...you met her in a chat room instead of looking through pretty pictures, so you are happy you found this "more correct" way of meeting your blind date.  You then talked for a month, and shacked up for a week, and discussed prenups and marriage, although her English isn't very good.  But you are still confident she loves you.  And...after only one week, she has agreed to marry you.  (Let me see, the last American couple that went this route, ah, can't think of one!)  Well, surely no red flags here!

Sorry, the question was, "Is it real"?

Answer:  No

[Vaughn]

Ambach, I realize that you are serious, and so am I when I suggest that you seek help.  I believe heart-to-heart talks with a psychologist would benefit you.

Gator's advice should not be misconstrued as critical, but taken as constructive. Years ago I sought some
needed professional help when I realized my set of core beliefs yielded much unhappiness and internal
strife - neither of which can be remedied by dragging another person into one's life.

The awakening begins at home. Face the mirror, and recognize that controlling others does nothing but
reinforce that which is self-destructive behavior. This woman has expressed her interest in and desire
for you - and despite her own personal reasons, I suspect she adores your romantic side. Can the same
be said for the opinions and beliefs you've stated here and on other threads?

Invaluable help is as close as your telephone book. Don't settle for rolling the dice - it's absolutely unfair
to market yourself as a well-adjusted man at this time.

[ambach123]

There are many details that I omitted.

We have a lot of things in common. I am second generation Turkish descent, she is also of Turkish origin (Tartar were Turkic) with some Slavic blood mixed.

I was born a Muslim, and so was she, though both grew up in secular societies. Both of our families maintain Turkish kitchens to this day (Kebabs, salads and cheeses). We both have a woking knowledge of Turkish language, she more than me.

Among Turkish Americans, those who marry their own kind, the divorce rate is less than 2%, same holds true for Muslim Russians wo marry their own kind, once they marry outside the faith, then the general stats prevail.

I have dated a very large number of AW, almost all of them white; I was married before to a white AW, I am  sure race and religion were issues with her.

This is the first time in a long time I have known someone of my own kind. She felt very strongly for me the first minute we met, and it only got stronger with time.

We met in Istanbul, the land of our ancestors; everyone treated us like guests. It was whirlwind of a time.  We had a suite at the Intercontinental, one of the best hotels in town. We saw the grandeur of the Ottoman Empire, made both of us feel good.

We went to the Blue Mosque, one of holiest of the  mosques in Islam, and prayed together, it is personal, but it was the same paryer to the same God by both of us. Read where she says she wants us to grow together spiritually.

I have told her that USA is an exceedingly tolerant society, ethnic bigotry is considered a despiccable act in this land, often punished severly.

My experience in FSU has not been the same, FSU is not USA. For most of the women I am doubly strange. It is very tough for any minority in FSU.

I am also a wealthy man, and have built a fortune; wealthy people are different any way, otherwise they would not become wealthy. I have strong opionions and I follow them through, that is how I made my fortune. Almost always I thought differently than everyone else. I often have disdain for people with big mouths, but two nickels to their names. I know Mohammed preached tolerance for mankind, hopefully I would learn that someday. I would be a fool to marry without a prenup.

Having said all of this, inspite of our communalities, we grew up in different cultures, she still has to live here, learn English, learn to drive and would face the same problems in assimilating, as other Russians whether Muslim or Christians. Even though we are of same ethnicity and religion we are still two different people who have to learn to live together.

If we were to marry, the marriage would be a lasting one, I think so, but I need to know more. We have planned several meetings in the next few months, hopefully then I would know the asnwer.

[BC]

ambach, forget the statistics.. although they apply to large numbers, they do not apply to you, or me or any other person.

After many posts over a couple threads, you now are making probably the worst mistake of all.. trying to justify a marital relationship to us and yourself that is at this time just a spark produced by a caveman trying to shape flint into something that can cut or pierce.

You may have some common ethnic blood, but you are as American as it gets.

You have fear, you have doubt and have exhibited character traits that are not very positive when backed into a corner.

Regardless, bottom line is that you are trying to talk yourself into a relationship.. something that I have experienced first hand time and time again until I finally realized that it will never work that way. 

Have no fear though.. it will beat you over and over until you understand.

You are a businessman trying to apply the same rules of success to your personal life.. - just doesn't work that way.

You have received the very best advice possible, but insist on being 'blessed' instead.  Guess what.. it ain't gonna happen so get used to it.

The lowest common denominator in life is YOU.. so start there.

By all means continue dating whomever you want, where ever they may be.. I'll be the last person on earth that will try to prevent two consenting adults from having a date..  But don't try to impress me, or others in an attempt to justify your actions.