Moscow round 2

[Sculpto]

Well, it is less than a week befroe my departure so I thought I would start a new thread.

At this point I am only going to discuss preparations and some thoughts I have regarding the various opinions that have been expressed in other threads and my feelings about them.

I am flying on Delta again.  I am not especially thrilled about this because the last flight was pretty much of a disaster, but, I had the vouchers and I am therefore getting to Moscow for a pittance.  I organized the flights out of Oakland and through Atlanta.  This saved an addition $150.  The layovers are longer, but, it actually gets me into Moscow at the same time as leaving out of SF would have.  The difference is basically hanging out in the airport during layover or getting up at 3 am to go to the airport, so, it made more sense to go this route.  I am routing through Atlanta instead of New York because it seems that the Atlanta airport is a bit easier to navigate and less crowded.  I hope it all works out as planned. 

"A" is taking the train from Tomsk and will arrive a day early.  She is still working on finding another apartment, though, if she is unable we will stay in the same place as last time.  The apartment is comfortable enough, but, especially since it is winter, being a bit closer in would be nice.  We will see what happens on that. 

I have given considerable thought to the different issues that have been brought up in the other threads.  Honestly I feel very comfortable with the situation, but, some of the things pointed out linger in my thoughts.  Probably the most serious is the question of maturity.  I have no doubts about her feelings for me, she has proven that in numerous ways.  But, I can't shake the possibility that she either hasn't been 100% honest or, if she has been honest, that she is emotionally immature and her way of expressing frustration or anger could be a real problem in the long term.  On the other hand, people tend to mature as they get older so I can safely assume that she isn't likely to become less mature.  But my bottom line is simple, I will nto be anyones punching bag, so, hopefully she will see she can talk to me about her deepest feelings and that I will support her anyway.  But, if she becomes unreasonably angry as she did a few times in the last two months it is also safe to assume that she will be finding another place to stay in Moscow.  I am just not going to tolerate such emotional behavior on a trip, or in life. 

I have thought a lot about how to get to the bottom of things.  I know if I confront her directly with my doubts she will have a negative reaction.  She too is full of pride, maybe too much.  So, I have been trying to think like a chess player, three moves ahead.  I have concluded that my best possibility is to bring things up in anecdote and judge her reaction before going further.  But, ultimately following my heart I think things will be ok.  Especially in regard to her Fathers illness I just can't see any end game to dishonesty and her mental state related to it has taken a natural progression.  She would have to be one hell of a liar and actress to have pulled it off for so long and it just doesn't make sense.  If she was hitting me up for money I would say ok, but, she hasn't and has refused my offers, so.. I can't find the lie.

She has told me since the beginning of our courtship that she is "difficult".  Her friend who I have had chats with has also reinforced this.  "A" has even described some minor conflicts she had with friends that also reinforce her comment.  For me, being difficult is not a deal killer because I can be difficult.  The question I have, is if I have been patient and supportive of her craziness, how will she react to mine?  Although, I have mellowed out a lot, so, it might not be easy to find a scenario in which I can show her how I am when feeling crazy. 

The idea of getting married in Moscow has been abandoned.  I am bringing an engagement ring and if towards the end of the trip I am happy and feel like it will be the right decision I will ask the big question.  We have discussed everything and she is bringing all the relevant papers.  This might actually be the point where I can see her true intentions as I will not discuss this with her the first week, under any circumstances.  Last time I got carried away in the moment and blurted it out, but, this time I feel I am in a much better position to be restrained and let things develop.    I just want to spend time with her and talk and walk and see things and laugh and eat and do all the normal stuff and see if being with me and being away from her problems lightens her mood and she is able to live in the moment.  I am prepared for her to become sad after calls home and am prepared to be quiet and do what she needs to snap out of any sadness that occurs.  These will be critical moments to understand if I can go forward or not. 

So, that is all for now.  No need to reply with anything but words of support, if anyone has any.. LOL.

[Daveman]

IMO, Atlanta Hartsfield Jackson International Airport, ridiculously long name notwithstanding, is by far and away the easiest of the major airports in the USA to navigate.  It just doesn't really get any easier.

Sculpto, the only words of encouragement or support or "advice" I'd pass along is -- forget about the proposal completely. Don't think about it or concern yourself with it.  Just hang out with the lady and let things happen at a natural pace.  All that "Should I? Shouldn't I?" type of mental anguish doesn't really allow you to have a clear head because there's an underlying agenda creeping around in your brain.  Relax, enjoy, be attentive... let the path open before you naturally... you'll see it clearly when the time is right.

Good luck,
Dave

[groovlstk]

The idea of getting married in Moscow has been abandoned.  I am bringing an engagement ring and if towards the end of the trip I am happy and feel like it will be the right decision I will ask the big question.

Sculpto, make up your mind: either you plan to get engaged to this woman or you don't - using this trip as some sort of litmus test and planning to pop the question if she jumps through a few hoops is very dangerous.

An engagement ring is like a handgun - don't take it out unless you plan to use it.

Sorry if this isn't encouraging or supportive enough for you, but you're not the only pair of eyes who can learn from this situation.

[Sculpto]

I get both your points..

You know, today something really interesting happened, totally not relevant to my trip.

An old friend, reconnected via facebook... he is an artist in NYC that has done very well.. anyway, the guy is the consumate absurdist and is embarking on a project called the "Manpanzee", combining the genetic code of human and chimp.. the exchange really put things into perspective.

I plan on having fun in Moscow. 

[OlgaH]

Sculpto,

have a safe trip and wonderful time  and dress warm 

[Faux Pas]

I get both your points..

You know, today something really interesting happened, totally not relevant to my trip.

An old friend, reconnected via facebook... he is an artist in NYC that has done very well.. anyway, the guy is the consumate absurdist and is embarking on a project called the "Manpanzee", combining the genetic code of human and chimp.. the exchange really put things into perspective.

I plan on having fun in Moscow. 

I get their point too. Your point however is wayyy the hell out there. Is there a point other than you plan on fun? If so that should be a moot point.

[Sculpto]

Sculpto,

have a safe trip and wonderful time  and dress warm 

Thanks Olga.. I have to admit I am the tiniest bit worried about freezing my arse off.. I haven't seen snow in over 20 years!  Well, except for one day in Kherson 15 months ago but that hardly counts.. lol..

[Sculpto]

I get their point too. Your point however is wayyy the hell out there. Is there a point other than you plan on fun? If so that should be a moot point.

no matter what I say you are going to find fault.. so here is a big fat Armenian wedding for you.  Sheesh.. if I can't have fun with my girl, embrace the moment, enjoy each others company and confirm that life with each other is much better than life apart.. then well I might as well just go to afganistan and find a burka girl to be my wife.  Or perhaps I should engage in some simian frivolity and galavant around Moscow all serious and glum... here Fez, let me toss you a rope so you pull yourself outa the mud you are stuck in, with your stick.

[OlgaH]

Thanks Olga.. I have to admit I am the tiniest bit worried about freezing my arse off.. I haven't seen snow in over 20 years!  Well, except for one day in Kherson 15 months ago but that hardly counts.. lol..

Don't forget to put in your suitcase or better in your hand luggage the warm underwear. You can put on the warm underwear right before landing in Moscow.

[Faux Pas]

no matter what I say you are going to find fault.. so here is a big fat Armenian wedding for you.  Sheesh.. if I can't have fun with my girl, embrace the moment, enjoy each others company and confirm that life with each other is much better than life apart.. then well I might as well just go to afganistan and find a burka girl to be my wife.  Or perhaps I should engage in some simian frivolity and galavant around Moscow all serious and glum... here Fez, let me toss you a rope so you pull yourself outa the mud you are stuck in, with your stick.

I suppose someone has taken a whiz in your post toasties? I didn't find fault Scultp, merely asked you a question. Would you have planned this trip to have a bad time?

[Sculpto]

Don't forget to put in your suitcase or better in your hand luggage the warm underwear. You can put on the warm underwear right before landing in Moscow.

I have been thinking about that for days.. wondering if I would really need it or not.. I guess you just confirmed.. I will be making a trip to target after work tomorrow.. wait.. do they even sell long underwear in this part of California???

[OlgaH]

wait.. do they even sell long underwear in this part of California???

better to find 

Averages for March
http://weather.uk.msn.com/daily_averages.aspx?wealocations=wc:RSXX0063&q=Moscow%2C+RUS+forecast:averagesd&weai=3

[Sculpto]

I suppose someone has taken a whiz in your post toasties? I didn't find fault Scultp, merely asked you a question. Would you have planned this trip to have a bad time?

this is how "A" would answer your question..
...............

Understand?

Maybe I read you wrong when you said "Your point however is wayyy the hell out there."

Anyway.. best laid plans can go awry.. so, one way or another I will be having a fun trip.  And, being in an absurdist mindset certainly could work to my advantage in that regard.

[Sculpto]

better to find 

Averages for March
http://weather.uk.msn.com/daily_averages.aspx?wealocations=wc:RSXX0063&q=Moscow%2C+RUS+forecast:averagesd&weai=3

I have been following the weather reports on RT and it was hovering right at 0 most of Feb but has gotten colder in the last week.  I was hoping it would not.. but.. anyway, I suppose Muscovites are used to it and certainly a Siberian will nto be the least concerned with cold, so, I better just get the gear and deal with it.  So, my question is.. will she complain about the heat when I take her to a tropical beach in Mexico????

[Daveman]

Yeah, definitely take Olga's advice.  My one and only trip to Russia was in March.. Moscow/Omsk .. and, while not like January (sheesh, I can't even imagine), the weather was C O L D.. I arrived with neither a warm hat nor scarf because I just don't need those items here... wound up buying both while there and wearing my pajamas under my clothes in lieu of thermal underwear.. seriously... take whatever warm stuff you have and/or be prepared to buy whatever you don't have.  

People here get a kick out of my Russian hat, but let me tell you.. I love that thing with a passion..  and with good reason

[OlgaH]

So, my question is.. will she complain about the heat when I take her to a tropical beach in Mexico????

I can not speak for your lady, but I love-love-love heat 

[Sculpto]

I can not speak for your lady, but I love-love-love heat 

I have teased her about being an albino Armenian.. she needs sun and she doesn't get it in Tomsk..

[Sculpto]

Yeah, definitely take Olga's advice.  My one and only trip to Russia was in March.. Moscow/Omsk .. and, while not like January (sheesh, I can't even imagine), the weather was C O L D.. I arrived with neither a warm hat nor scarf because I just don't need those items here... wound up buying both while there and wearing my pajamas under my clothes in lieu of thermal underwear.. seriously... take whatever warm stuff you have and/or be prepared to buy whatever you don't have.  

People here get a kick out of my Russian hat, but let me tell you.. I love that thing with a passion..  and with good reason

I have a good coat.. the one i got for the last trip.. it was way too much for Oct/Nov but should be perfect now.  I have either a normal ski hat, or my favorite.. Elmer Fudd style hunting cap.. I love it but it might not go over well in Moscow.. I don't think they will get the humor.. not knowing Elmer and such.. no long undies.. and the only gloves I have, while very sentimental... they were made for me by my "daughter" in Mexico.. hand spun yarn and everything.. are not very stylish so that I need to find also.  On the last trip we actually tried to find a pair of gloves actually made in Russia.. not so easy, in fact immpossible, from the street vendors anyway... I might need to hit Macys before the end of the week..

[Sculpto]

Manpanzee?

[Faux Pas]

this is how "A" would answer your question..
...............

Understand?

Maybe I read you wrong when you said "Your point however is wayyy the hell out there."

Anyway.. best laid plans can go awry.. so, one way or another I will be having a fun trip.  And, being in an absurdist mindset certainly could work to my advantage in that regard.

Well lets examine for a minute; you start the thread titled Moscow round 2 and your opening post is about your upcoming trip. (in which I wish you well btw) You receive some advice from members and it appears well taken  in the same context it appears it was offered. You make note of the advice and then make some mention of your long lost recently rediscovered friend and combining chimp and human genetic code and then you plan on having fun in Moscow.

I totally missed your point and inquired. You wish me a fat Armenian wedding and something about me being in the muck. Where did I get lost here?

Your point if there was one, is certainly wayyy the hell out there. I've seen threads get off topic but ground opened up and swallowed this one with Manpanzee. Way out there even for you Sculpt. It was an honest question. Get your panties out of the knot

[Sculpto]

Faux.. I had a conversation with an absurdist who has had art purchased by the NY-MOMA.. Manpanzee is absolutely not out there and is in fact completely relevant to what both guys said about litmus tests and using the ring properly!  My panties are not bunched up at all.. that was my whole point!  I was "clenching" and now I am not, entirely because of Manpanzee.  OOO OOO OOO AHHHHHHH

So, if I want to act like a monkey.. and climb skyscrapers and swing from telephone cables to impress my girl.. she will be the lucky one who gets to see such an incredible performance.

And, as a matter of fact, I have a very nice stuffed monkey in my suitcase for a young lady that loves monkeys..

BTW.. anyone kow if the monkey people on Arbat hang out in the winter?

[bobb]

You shouldn't have any problems with the weather.  It's ti-plo, for Russians.  Really...it looks like it will be a little above freezing to somewhat below.  For gloves I might suggest a local outdoors store and look for some liners.  You should be able to find some that will keep you as warm as you'll need for under $20.

[Sculpto]

You shouldn't have any problems with the weather.  It's ti-plo, for Russians.  Really...it looks like it will be a little above freezing to somewhat below.  For gloves I might suggest a local outdoors store and look for some liners.  You should be able to find some that will keep you as warm as you'll need for under $20.

Thanks Bobb.. I am not really worried about freezing.. its just going ot be a new experience for me.  I grew up in the midwest so cold weather is not completely foreign, just hated!  LOL

[Ulysses]

And good, thick warm shoes......I bought some low-quarter Merrells......almost nice hiking boots here for my trip to Kiev 6 weeks ago...
made it very well in -10C at 3 am in the morning......no problem!!!   Just have many layers to put on.....and take off when needed
    I've been loosely following the threads, etc from the past few weeks........hah...youth!!!   But really, find that person you wish to build a bond with.....and she with you.....then place that bond as #1.   If your world is a bond with some artform or style for #1, then choose that instead.   I'm not wishing to be harsh, just speaking from my own failures....."Whereever your treasure is, there shall your heart go also."  And I speak these words from an old warrier standpoint. 
    A ring???  Carry it forth as a very well guarded present, but one with little monetary value.  When it's right.....it's right.....Good success.....Ulysses......

[Ade]

and wearing my pajamas under my clothes i

You have pyjamas?  :whirling: