Moscow round 2

[Faux Pas]

You can add the fact that she is young and perhaps has not matured. 

Sculpto seems the type of man who would give comfort to any troubled soul, even more to someone he loved.  Most people experiencing such stresses as a dying parent would seek solace from close friends and loved ones.   The way she treats Sculpto suggests he is neither.


I am not a big believer in giving RW a second chance when issues and implications have already been discussed fully.  Best to move on with no thought about getting together again.  Such a lingering thought could screw up a relationship with the next RW.

I alluded to this in his other thread I believe. IMO those seeking RW in their early 20's can expect this type behavior from these ladies. I suspect it is the result of western influence. Maybe this wasn't as common right after the fall of the iron curtain but it is today. This is basically the same behavior one can expect from western woman who are still in their early 20's, immaturity and drama queens.

The younger lads as TOP maybe more prepared to deal with it at this stage in his early life. Most of the more "seasoned" guys as myself and Sculpt couldn't possibly give enough of anything to satisfy such a woman. Of course the younger guys can't either but, they don't know that yet.

[Diplomacy]

Ah, but I learned that one a long time ago Faux.  If the right woman came along, I would have married her.  I want a team, not a trophy.  Until someone is willing to compromise and be content with what they have.  Work hard for what they want, and not expect something for nothing.

I would stay far away, from a person that has not figured that out.  There are always the exceptions, but I wanted someone the same age.  We got plenty of time to grow together.  At 35, I would not go below the age of 25. 

It is just a matter, of why dig through the mud?  If you want something, figure out what it is you want.  Who that person is, what they want in life, where they find happiness.  It is better to take a while in the selection process, then to use a lot of energy in an exercise of futility.  I simply do not have as much energy, as I once had.  I think about using it now, instead of charging into a situation.  I am not making myself miserable, at the expense of trying to make someone happy.  Who does not even know what they are looking for, is not going to be important as they grow.

Hard to put an age factor on that, some people never figure it out.  Other people, have known what it is since they were knee high to a grasshopper. 

You must be happy yourself, and find someone that is also happy.  They just want someone to share that happiness with.  Make sure you are going to be happy with supporting her in whatever makes her happy.  If it just is not something you can see as part of your life, then find someone else.

[Faux Pas]

Ah, but I learned that one a long time ago Faux.  If the right woman came along, I would have married her.  I want a team, not a trophy.  Until someone is willing to compromise and be content with what they have.  Work hard for what they want, and not expect something for nothing.

Is the "right woman" a woman who keeps you miserable and frustrated more or as much as she keeps you happy? For me personally that answer is no. Relationships are hard no doubt but, if you can both work together on keeping each other happy you'll find it's not much work at all.

I would stay far away, from a person that has not figured that out.  There are always the exceptions, but I wanted someone the same age.  We got plenty of time to grow together.  At 35, I would not go below the age of 25. 

I found out through trial and error that my lifetime partner is going to be very close in my age range. Thats a preference for me. Immaturity for either or both partners will doom a relationship eventually. In the beginning it may be over looked for other positives but eventually it comes home to roost. I have no problem with a man 70 and a lady 20 if that is what they choose to do. I know from experience if the lady is immature, I won't be able to make it work. Personally, I not only expect maturity, I demand it. 

It is just a matter, of why dig through the mud?  If you want something, figure out what it is you want.  Who that person is, what they want in life, where they find happiness.  It is better to take a while in the selection process, then to use a lot of energy in an exercise of futility.  I simply do not have as much energy, as I once had.  I think about using it now, instead of charging into a situation.  I am not making myself miserable, at the expense of trying to make someone happy.  Who does not even know what they are looking for, is not going to be important as they grow.

Hard to put an age factor on that, some people never figure it out.  Other people, have known what it is since they were knee high to a grasshopper. 

You must be happy yourself, and find someone that is also happy.  They just want someone to share that happiness with.  Make sure you are going to be happy with supporting her in whatever makes her happy.  If it just is not something you can see as part of your life, then find someone else.

This also pertains to what I stated above. A successful relationship shouldn't require constant hard work and acceptance. If it isn't as much pleasure to give and take in the relationship, it is much more work than pleasure and doomed for failure. Most generally, you have to enjoy putting more into a relationship than you expect to get out of it. It works the same for both parties.

[Gator]

Is the "right woman" a woman who keeps you miserable and frustrated more or as much as she keeps you happy? For me personally that answer is no.

Me too.  Except not even 50-50 is good enough for me. 

You and Diplomacy talk about the fact that any relationship requires work.  True, but in a good relationship, one does not question the work.  It seems natural and beneficial, certainly worth the effort.


Sculpto saw this episode coming, or at least knew that it was quite possible:

But, if she becomes unreasonably angry as she did a few times in the last two months it is also safe to assume that she will be finding another place to stay in Moscow.  I am just not going to tolerate such emotional behavior on a trip, or in life. 

Sculpto's been absent for 3-4 days, so we can only guess about what he decided to do.


For sure his woman "A" is honest based on the following: 

She has told me since the beginning of our courtship that she is "difficult".  Her friend who I have had chats with has also reinforced this.  "A" has even described some minor conflicts she had with friends that also reinforce her comment. 

And this was very interesting:

For me, being difficult is not a deal killer because I can be difficult.  The question I have, is if I have been patient and supportive of her craziness, how will she react to mine?  Although, I have mellowed out a lot, so, it might not be easy to find a scenario in which I can show her how I am when feeling crazy. 

Perhaps Sculpto should purposefully show her his crazy side.  All of us probably know a couple who constantly bicker with each other.  When they speak to each other, the rest of us in the room hold our breath.  I think to myself that I could never live that way, yet they do.  Maybe such turmoil is Sculpto's destiny.

[Faux Pas]

Gator,

Maybe so. I have a close personal friend with that same mindset. His wife, from his descriptions has been nothing but a constant physical and emotional drain. I've only known him for 15 years and in that time have never heard him say one thing positive about her. I has always found her to be a pleasant lady but I am sure there is another side to her. Yet they have been married over 30 years and if they live that long, I expect 30 more. Are some men predisposed to live with misery?

[GoodOlBoy]

A little 

But....I am going to suggest to Sculpto that the next time he goes to the FSU, he packs the "GoodOlBoy" RW/UW BIG GAME HUNTER outfit (US Passport, Rod-N-Reel). 

Also works great at a little Club in Moscow called "Nightflight".  :evil:

http://www.nightflight.ru/


GOB

[Vinnvinny]

Also works great at a little Club in Moscow called "Nightflight".  :evil:

http://www.nightflight.ru/

Tut tut, GOB, tut tut. 

[ScottinCrimea]

I alluded to this in his other thread I believe. IMO those seeking RW in their early 20's can expect this type behavior from these ladies.

I think I did a bit more than just allude to this.   

[Diplomacy]

Oh man Scott, you going to tell me that this is any worse than the conversations at home.  Maybe we are practicing for the real deal, of filibustering a topic Ad Nauseam.  It is good for self preservation, in this endeavor.   

It is just to easy sometimes to say, "You are Right, the best way to cure a headache is a cabbage leaf on your head.  Oh yes, charcoal is much better tasting, then a tums.  If it is good enough to filter the water for fish, then give me three please.

I feel bad for some of your skulls

[topofthekey]

The younger lads as TOP maybe more prepared to deal with it at this stage in his early life. Most of the more "seasoned" guys as myself and Sculpt couldn't possibly give enough of anything to satisfy such a woman. Of course the younger guys can't either but, they don't know that yet.

Maybe so. I broke up with my last American g/f because every day felt just like this. 

I don't know how old his lady is. For me 22,23,24,25 would be ideal. Basically done or close to being done with the undergrad part of college would be great. From what I noticed in Estonia the girls aren't anything like the american girls of the midwest that I know (I know I know.. women are still women but these were very different that what you find at the county fair  ). And a big thank you for that. There is one thing you don't have to worry about with me. I'm not afraid to say...... NEXT.

[Kuna]

Maybe so. I broke up with my last American g/f because every day felt just like this. 

I don't know how old his lady is. For me 22,23,24,25 would be ideal. Basically done or close to being done with the undergrad part of college would be great. From what I noticed in Estonia the girls aren't anything like the american girls of the midwest that I know (I know I know.. women are still women but these were very different that what you find at the county fair  ). And a big thank you for that. There is one thing you don't have to worry about with me. I'm not afraid to say...... NEXT.

Top...

Listen carefully.

A 22 yr old girl is actually a decade younger than a 26 yr old girl.  I know my maths seems whacked but you're just going to have to believe me or take the consequences.

re: your perception of Estonian girls being so different to American girls. 

CRAP!  BULL-DUST.  MALARKEY! 

If you're fantasy makes them seem this way you're welcome to waste as much time, effort, potential and emotional energy as you want...  BUT DON'T SAY YOU WEREN'T WARNED! 

I'll argue that a 22 yr old Estonian, Russian, Ukrainian, Latvia, etc is as much if not MORE trouble than an American or Aussie 22 yr old - remember they are all immature but you're about to take one away from everything (and the only things) she know.  Anyone to attempt to do so is just gambling on luck!

[Shadow]

Oh man Scott, you going to tell me that this is any worse than the conversations at home.  Maybe we are practicing for the real deal, of filibustering a topic Ad Nauseam.  It is good for self preservation, in this endeavor.   

It is just to easy sometimes to say, "You are Right, the best way to cure a headache is a cabbage leaf on your head.  Oh yes, charcoal is much better tasting, then a tums.  If it is good enough to filter the water for fish, then give me three please.

I feel bad for some of your skulls

You can say yes, but did you actually try it ? You migt find it works against all expectations. 

[ScottinCrimea]

Oh man Scott, you going to tell me that this is any worse than the conversations at home.  Maybe we are practicing for the real deal, of filibustering a topic Ad Nauseam.  It is good for self preservation, in this endeavor.   

It is just to easy sometimes to say, "You are Right, the best way to cure a headache is a cabbage leaf on your head.  Oh yes, charcoal is much better tasting, then a tums.  If it is good enough to filter the water for fish, then give me three please.

I feel bad for some of your skulls

I have absolutely no idea what the point of this response was.   :noidea:

[topofthekey]

Top...

Listen carefully.

A 22 yr old girl is actually a decade younger than a 26 yr old girl. 
re: your perception of Estonian girls being so different to American girls. 

CRAP!  BULL-DUST.  MALARKEY!   

I'll argue that a 22 yr old Estonian, Russian, Ukrainian, Latvia, etc is as much if not MORE trouble than an American or Aussie 22 yr old - remember they are all immature but you're about to take one away from everything (and the only things) she know.  Anyone to attempt to do so is just gambling on luck!

Coming from a medium sized town in the Heartland it was just a huge difference to me from being in some skanky bar or club back home (with overweight and in many cases under/uneducated women/townies). To me the women were a lot more attractive and in shape. As for their personal demeanors they did seem standoff-ish, but they were very quick to warm up to you (once they found out you weren't a british tourist there for the obvious).

As for gambling with my luck. I've gotten a lot better over the years at figuring myself out and what I want in a partner. Considering most other guys I know in there mid 20s are dating, engaged, or married to someone who they thought was hot and happened to put out often/well I think I'm ahead of the game. All I can really say is I suspect many of the guys on this message board and those intentionally seeking overseas are previously divorced. I'm sure thats not the case for everyone, but it is something I've precieved. I'll date someone in their early 20s up to my age (25). Everyone who gets married in my opinion is rolling the dice. All I can say for myself is I'm going to take plenty of trips and time to see if I can find the right person. I have no desire to force anything that doesn't occur naturally. So yes I'm gambling, but we all have our own dice to roll with varying odds. Age is one major factor. Hopefully I get it right. If I don't I'm sure I'll be in the cateagory with most everyone else.

[Ade]

As for their personal demeanors they did seem standoff-ish, but they were very quick to warm up to you (once they found out you weren't a british tourist there for the obvious).

I'm curious if this was something they told you (as in they think that there are a lot of British sex tourists) or is that something you just made up?

[Diplomacy]

You can say yes, but did you actually try it ? You might find it works against all expectations. 

Yes.

Cabbage leaf is good at dissipating heat.  Did not work on the headache, but I am sure it could.  It would depend on the cause of the headache.  Mine come from sports injury. 

Charcoal works, and yes I took them.  Tums gets you calcium at the same time, and tastes better. 

[Daveman]

Ah, but I learned that one a long time ago Faux.  If the right woman came along, I would have married her.  I want a team, not a trophy.  Until someone is willing to compromise and be content with what they have.  Work hard for what they want, and not expect something for nothing.

I would stay far away, from a person that has not figured that out.  There are always the exceptions, but I wanted someone the same age.  We got plenty of time to grow together.  At 35, I would not go below the age of 25. 

It is just a matter, of why dig through the mud?  If you want something, figure out what it is you want.  Who that person is, what they want in life, where they find happiness.  It is better to take a while in the selection process, then to use a lot of energy in an exercise of futility.  I simply do not have as much energy, as I once had.  I think about using it now, instead of charging into a situation.  I am not making myself miserable, at the expense of trying to make someone happy.  Who does not even know what they are looking for, is not going to be important as they grow.

Hard to put an age factor on that, some people never figure it out.  Other people, have known what it is since they were knee high to a grasshopper. 

You must be happy yourself, and find someone that is also happy.  They just want someone to share that happiness with.  Make sure you are going to be happy with supporting her in whatever makes her happy.  If it just is not something you can see as part of your life, then find someone else.

Good post Diplomacy.  I highlighted the portions with special significance to me.  I've learned about myself that I am absolutely happy and content being single. I love my life and I love being me.  I want a partner who can ADD something significant to my life -- not drain from it.  Some people are like emotional leeches. They drain your soul a little at a time. 

It seems the younger, immature ladies tend to need emotional upheaval to feel satisfied.  Something is always some kind of crisis, a tragedy, and attention grabbing event of epic proportions.  Elephants from flies as a daily emotional staple.

Yeah, "make up" sex is great, but it sure ain't THAT special.

Of course two individuals attempting to live under the same roof will have an element tug of war from time to time--  especially when settling in --  but that's a far cry from emotional immaturity and the ensuing roller coaster ride of doom.

I've also come to the conclusion that some of the most intelligent people we would ever meet are just emotionally retarded.  They'll probably never quite "get it" due to their warped sense of self and atypical value systems. 

I wouldn't stand for 50% BS either... if the BS factor creeps anywhere near the double digits -- I'm wayyyy outta there.  My life is too good as it is to deal with such asinine nonsense simply to avoid being alone.

If the "balance" of a particular lady doesn't enhance your life in a hellaciously marvelous fashion, then GTF away from her. It just ain't worth the hassle.  Know exactly what you want in a woman/relationship and don't settle for anything less. You can compromise over what fat percentage is in the milk, or who will wash the dishes, but compromises with character, emotional stability, personality compatibility, among others will bite you on the arse every single time long term.

[CaptB]

I was coming back to the LTP office in Tver.....with Steve Morvay.....from the Zebra Lounge one evening. We had a good time. Back at the office he looked a little pensive. He had turned on his computer and started fiddling with the Cessna flight simulator....that was his current obsession. He paused.....looked over at me a said....."Marc......do you know what the number one reason for men not connecting with a suitable partner is"? I shrugged.....and looked back for the answer. "It is the men's inabillity to determine whether the woman is into him as much as he is...into her......or just accept the fact....and move on.....when she is not. All other factors are secondary. Men give reasons, excuses etc. etc. But they can't accept the "real" issue. She is not into him to a degree "equal" to his interest.....in her.

Her Mother/Father is sick. She does'nt speak English. She has been hurt in the past. She needs someone to treat her right. She is affraid to relocate. Etc. Etc. I know of many couples over the years where these issues....and many more....were present....and yet their relationship blossomed....in spite of dificulties.....because their interest was mutual....mutually strong.

The flags are all over the place. I hope Sculpto has figured it out.

Fortunately "I" was able to let Steve's (Morvay) statement register....in my own situation. My girl in Tver had many amirable qualities....but her interest was just not strong enough. It was not easy.....but I cut her loose.

My "wife" really appreciates the wisdom I displayed.....back then


Yeah, "make-up sex is great, but it sure ain't THAT special"   

Daveman.....hope things a going good for you.


Capt B

[topofthekey]

I'm curious if this was something they told you (as in they think that there are a lot of British sex tourists) or is that something you just made up?

First, I know they have the strip clubs still but I have no idea how much prostitution takes place today. This isn't me slamming british tourists or businessmen in from the helsinki ferry. And just to note Americans are no better. Plenty fly down to San Jose, Costa Rica for the same reasons.

In case you are wondering if the young ladies really do look at young male tourists a certain way. Well here is a video that might support what I wrote.

[OlgaH]

In case you are wondering if the young ladies really do look at young male tourists a certain way. Well here is a video that might support what I wrote.

Head of the AIDS prevention center in Estonia Nelly Kalikova says that the girls very often complain that the sex tourists don't want to use condom, they offer more money for sex without condom, but if they are refused they take the condom off on the sly during sex.

[Ade]

First, I know they have the strip clubs still but I have no idea how much prostitution takes place today. This isn't me slamming british tourists or businessmen in from the helsinki ferry. And just to note Americans are no better. Plenty fly down to San Jose, Costa Rica for the same reasons.

In case you are wondering if the young ladies really do look at young male tourists a certain way. Well here is a video that might support what I wrote.

I guess I'm out of touch and British sex tourists are trying new places besides the "traditional" Amsterdam and Bangkok brothels.

And I didn't think you were slamming anyone; it's interesting to know if there's a general perception that Brits = sex tourist in some parts of the FSU.

[groovlstk]

And I didn't think you were slamming anyone; it's interesting to know if there's a general perception that Brits = sex tourist in some parts of the FSU.

Of course there is, along with their American and German brethren.

http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=7344&IBLOCK_ID=35&phrase_id=21632

[OlgaH]

Rising sex tourism unwelcome
http://www.kyivpost.com/nation/29364/

[youtube=425,350]yL2o8lIIcB4[/youtube]

[Kuna]

I guess I'm out of touch and British sex tourists are trying new places besides the "traditional" Amsterdam and Bangkok brothels.

And I didn't think you were slamming anyone; it's interesting to know if there's a general perception that Brits = sex tourist in some parts of the FSU.

Certainly in Riga the perception is that if you're an Englishman you're in town for sex, or binge drinking, but probably both.

Some restaurants in Old Riga display signs on the doors "No English Bucks".  When you walk down the street the doormen ask if you're english when they are trying to get you into the strip clubs.

When I talked to people and explained I was Australia, and the family connection that brought me to Riga the reception was VASTLY different...  and yes people I spoke to specifically singled out Englishmen and the sex tours/bucks parties/ excessive drinking.  This is a direct result of cheap airfares, something that will come to Ukraine all too soon if they continue to adopt such a wonderful western culture.

[Kuna]

Coming from a medium sized town in the Heartland it was just a huge difference to me from being in some skanky bar or club back home (with overweight and in many cases under/uneducated women/townies). To me the women were a lot more attractive and in shape. As for their personal demeanors they did seem standoff-ish, but they were very quick to warm up to you (once they found out you weren't a british tourist there for the obvious).

Do not confuse different with anything other than different.  Different is not necessarily more mature, r more family oriented, or more sophiticated, or more educated.  It's just different.

You sound as if you were smitten, and you should be, it's quite an adventure but we see many men making mistakes just because it's DIFFERENT than what they are use to.

As for gambling with my luck. I've gotten a lot better over the years at figuring myself out and what I want in a partner. Considering most other guys I know in there mid 20s are dating, engaged, or married to someone who they thought was hot and happened to put out often/well I think I'm ahead of the game. All I can really say is I suspect many of the guys on this message board and those intentionally seeking overseas are previously divorced. I'm sure thats not the case for everyone, but it is something I've precieved. I'll date someone in their early 20s up to my age (25). Everyone who gets married in my opinion is rolling the dice. All I can say for myself is I'm going to take plenty of trips and time to see if I can find the right person. I have no desire to force anything that doesn't occur naturally. So yes I'm gambling, but we all have our own dice to roll with varying odds. Age is one major factor. Hopefully I get it right. If I don't I'm sure I'll be in the cateagory with most everyone else.

I am sorry... I am really sorry.  At 25 you haven't even started to figure yourself out.  To claim so is virtual proof of your immaturity.

Top... let me tell you a short story.  I have a team of Uber-geeks working for me and some are young, highly confident, intellectually brilliant and very well paid.  The young ones are not mature... they just seem like that until you get to know them.

One bought a $70k sports car and within a month he rolled it off the side of a hill.  His insurance rejected his claim and his parents came to his defense, ultimately winning a court battle.  The insurer paid out and he replaced that $70k sports car... and three weeks later he had an accident and wrote off the car (this time injuring himself).  The insurer did not cover it that time.

The first smash was blamed on the road conditions (stones on the end of the road that caused him to slide right off the hill)... and the second time it was blamed on a manufacturing fault in the car, which was never proved.

My point is this... this young bloke was having rod crashes because he couldn't deal with the situation he was in.  Some who go to FSU will nt be able to deal with the situations they are in, and they will have their own crashes.

As a member here you have the chance to take on some advice...  but you've become "better at figuring yourself out over the years"... so you just can't recognise helpful advice when given.

Maybe you're just too young for this pursuit because a "reasonable age gap" puts your chances in the minuscule range.  You do not understand but search the archives here and see the proof that early 20's girls are unreliable as long term partners.  They are too immature and almost every man pursuiing them HAS FAILED.

You have time...  so why waste time.  Why not date and home and when you mature the "appropriately aged girls" will have matured too?

What makes YOU consider marriage at such a young age, and why haven't you found ANYONE meeting your standards at home.  That might have more to do with you than the girls.

I'm only offering advice because i think you're on the wrong track and I hope you can avoid the pain Sculpto wuld be feeling now.  Why anyone would want to follow those footsteps has got me beat.

I wish you luck... because I think you'll need it.




Sculpto.. sorry for the