Moscow round 2

[Ranetka]

  Most of us have had these experiences.  Ranetka, I imagine when you did grew up, you were still a lot younger in years than Sculpto is today.  Artists and musicians tend to be this way.  They delight us in entertaining ways and dismay us in others.  It is Sculpto's life and he says he is happy.
 

They also enjoyed smoking.

Yes, smoking substunces, of course, did this too.

Sorry \i did not make myself clear. I just think his girl will grow up too, that's all. That's why I am wondering why not to look for a like-minded soul who takes part in wharever charity works etc,  his girl to me sounds like she is only experimenting...

[ScottinCrimea]

Ranetka, I think you have hit on what they have in common.  She is young and hasn't grown up yet and he is old and hasn't grown up yet.  I doubt he ever will, so if she ever does, she will either leave him or assume the role of mom.

[Mir]

when Ranetka was a student in her early twenties her and her friends used to get drunk silly regular, had drunken conversations about worlds future, sometimes dangerous and wild sex with stangers even,

Damn it I missed the boat

[Sculpto]

I am actually surprised the  responses were not more critical..

anyway.. I am in the Atlanta airport right now and actually feeling really good about how things turned out.  We stayed up most of the night talking, she put me to bed about 4:30 am... when I got up at 7 she had gone to the store while i was sleeping and prepared an awesome going away breakfast.

some have said they don't see what we have in common.. you know.. its not that she likes the same artists as i do.. or I like the same authors she does... its simply a state of mind, a way of being.. "la forma de ser" in Spanish... we have been able to get through some pretty serious problems and still want to be together... and for me that goes a long way to being able to believe in her and the relationship. 

Obviously my taste is not the cup of tea of choice for most of you all.. but.. I am the one who is going to live with the woman so...

here are a few snippets that might illuminate how we will make things work...

I will always have my art studio.. off limits to her without an invitation ..
She will always have a writing studio.. off limits to me without an invitation..
She will not require me to drink with her.. I will not require her to smoke weed with me
She insists on working either as a writer in some way or another, or, doing some sort of internet entreprenour biz.. will not work in a store of cafe.. (fits what I want for her too)

This next one is very interesting and was not expected.. most of you are probablky aware that real estate in the Bay Area is insane.. I currently rent.. however a friend of mine is a real estate agent specializing in distressed properties.. his terriitory of focus is west oakland which can be best described and a semi blighted area with a solid and growing population of urban pioneers... a fixer upper that would be 6-700,000 in SF can be had for under 100,000 in this district.  When I broached the topic with "A" I expected her to think I was crazy to want to live in a fixer upper.. but.. her reaction was exactly the opposite.. she wants to me to get it going NOW.. no delays... though, I feel it would be better once she is here and actually sees what living in west Oakland means.. I can describe it in the most extreme terms but until one actually sees a place like that... but you know.. on the other hand..  its probably no worse than the "rough" areas of Tomsk.. anyway.. her willingness to take on such a project and actually be involved with doing work to fix a place pretty much closed the deal for me...

anyway.. runnning out of time on this internet box... I've got lots more to post about so look for more stuff about the relationship.. experiences in moscow.. and etc..

[Vinnvinny]

I am actually surprised the  responses were not more critical..

It's a bit like telling kids to be quiet. No point as they will listen for a moment and then ignore you. 

[Ranetka]

I am actually surprised the  responses were not more critical..

AAAhhh, grab your girl Sculpto and be happy!!!!!!!!

[Ulysses]

Something from some old American poet and "The Road Less Traveled" comes to my pre-St. Paddy's Day spirit.....
Most of all of the members here have traveled this road in some form or another......to our bliss or our chagrin ....
    And so I await the next chapter with anticipation.....Keep us posted.................Ulysses.....

[topofthekey]

I am actually surprised the  responses were not more critical..

she put me to bed about 4:30 am...


I will always have my art studio.. off limits to her without an invitation ..
She will always have a writing studio.. off limits to me without an invitation..
She will not require me to drink with her.. I will not require her to smoke weed with me
She insists on working either as a writer in some way or another, or, doing some sort of internet entreprenour biz.. will not work in a store of cafe.. (fits what I want for her too)

First I think the responses were critical of what you put in your trip report. I just don't think it was in a mean spirited way. Second, that is a pretty late bed time young man! I'm sorry, I just thought that... she put me to bed comment... was hilarious.

As for the rest of the part I quoted. What do kids do? Yea they get mommy and daddys tape and divide the room. And you aren't allowed to cross! Having off limits rooms using the tape just doesn't seem very adult. What if she comes in the room? Does she have to wear a funny hat and sit on a stool in the corner?

I just hope over your time apart you really think long and hard about fantasy of what you think your life will be like with her versus what it is going to be like in reality. It sure is your life to pick who you want to pick. But I suspect a few weeks to think it over back home might leave you with cold feet. Personally mine would already be froozen.

[docetae]

First I think the responses were critical of what you put in your trip report. I just don't think it was in a mean spirited way. Second, that is a pretty late bed time young man! I'm sorry, I just thought that... she put me to bed comment... was hilarious.

As for the rest of the part I quoted. What do kids do? Yea they get mommy and daddys tape and divide the room. And you aren't allowed to cross! Having off limits rooms using the tape just doesn't seem very adult. What if she comes in the room? Does she have to wear a funny hat and sit on a stool in the corner?

I just hope over your time apart you really think long and hard about fantasy of what you think your life will be like with her versus what it is going to be like in reality. It sure is your life to pick who you want to pick. But I suspect a few weeks to think it over back home might leave you with cold feet. Personally mine would already be froozen.

Sculpto will perhaps confirm but I guess that offlimit means a place where the other part of the couple can not have a word to say about order, decoration, choices. This is a place that each one "owns" in the house with absolutely no compromise

My office/lab  and her studio are following this idea. There is no forbidden place, only place where we can do what we want without talking about it together before.

[topofthekey]

Sculpto will perhaps confirm but I guess that offlimit means a place where the other part of the couple can not have a word to say about order, decoration, choices. This is a place that each one "owns" in the house with absolutely no compromise

My office/lab  and her studio are following this idea. There is no forbidden place, only place where we can do what we want without talking about it together before.

Maybe so, but that is not how it reads. When someplace is off limits without in invite... I took it at face value.

[Misha]

She will not require me to drink with her.. I will not require her to smoke weed with me

Will this be in the prenup  [Sorry, couldn't resist a bit of sarcasm.]

She insists on working either as a writer in some way or another, or, doing some sort of internet entreprenour biz.. will not work in a store of cafe.. (fits what I want for her too)

Internet entrepreneur? She might be able to open some kind of small business on the internet, but do you really think she can realistically become an internet entrepreneur? As for being a writer in some way, that will take many years until her English is up to a decent level. Sure, there might be some Russian newspapers and the like, but there must be a fair number of Russian vying for those jobs. 

[Gator]

Sculpto will perhaps confirm but I guess that offlimit means a place where the other part of the couple can not have a word to say about order, decoration, choices. This is a place that each one "owns" in the house with absolutely no compromise

My office/lab  and her studio are following this idea. There is no forbidden place, only place where we can do what we want without talking about it together before.

Perhaps it is even more.  Some people need space, a cave to shut out the world, especially to separate from a spouse who is always there in your face.  Sculpto and his future bride (???) will be working in the same adobe where they eat, sleep and play.  It could easily become too much, especially considering the sparks that fly when these two get together.  "For better or worse...but not for lunch."

[groovlstk]

I've been feeling like a Lot's wife for the4 last two days. Guys? - those who congratulated Sculpto, - are you for real? I've read his account as a nightmare straight from the 70s. When for some unfathomable reason you find yourself blind drunk among unfamiliar and uninteresting people, and try to resolve issues (of which you are but dimply aware if at all) with your boyfriend, who is also reeling drunk.

I agree w/Wienerin.

It's tempting to believe this woman is simply mercurial and maybe a tiny but crazy; I believe her behavior has a much simpler explanation.

Age, maturity, readiness to leave her country, the seriousness of her fathers health problem, plain old fashioned doubt about the boy, conflict with her career goals, and I think that completes the list.. btw.. someone mentioned pms.. probably TMI but "red days" definitely contributed to her bitch factor the first week and get this, the connving biatch admitted to actually making me change the travel dates to coincide when she would be on "Red Days" and my god she has more rules on that topic than I ever knew existed.. she is either really uptight about it or American women are just pigs in a way I never thought about before...

Amazing how compliant and gullible you can be. Basically, this woman can treat you any way she pleases and you may get upset about it initially but all she needs to do is pout and apologize and you eagerly cover up her tracks for her. And now she knows what card to play - no matter how badly she acts with you she can always retreat to the old "I'm scared! I read on the internet about bad American men taking Russian women away from their homes!" You're so eager to believe her that she could have told you that she moved out of your rental flat because there was a flying saucer hovering over the building, and you'd believe her and then claim your actions are the result of your being more open minded. 

I did not give her the ring.  She has seen it but it aint on her finger.  (I did let her wear it for show on the 9th) She is going to have to "come and get it" though I might fold on that point in the morning depending on what she makes for breakfast.. if you get my meaning..   She did give me the ring she got for me, she begged me to take it, and I am wearing it.

So this was your way of laying down the law and refusing to be treated like garbage? You dangle an engagement ring in front of her but have the "willpower" to avoid putting it on her finger until she shows proper remorse or jumps through enough hoops to prove her love for you?  While she's pretending to play the penitent now, you can be sure she's laughing with her friends at your pathetic attempts to play tough with her.

Sculpto, before you get angry w/me, at least read what I have to say, it comes from my own experience and a genuine desire to avoid seeing you used and discarded. I hope I'm wrong about your GF and perhaps at some point in the future I'll have to admit it. I will be glad to do so. But I don't think it will come to that. Long ago, I was involved w/a Ukrainian woman whom I had strong feelings for, even though she ran hot one minute, cold the next. On my three trips to visit her, she acted almost exactly like your gf. Our first few days together were always difficult, she was silent much of the time and very irritable. Because of my feelings for her, I was eager to attribute her behavior to nervousness, cultural differences, anything except for the obvious truth that she didn't love me and in fact could barely tolerate my presence.

Much later I understood her actions - she loved someone else but had no future with him as he was married. She was often annoyed with me when we were together, probably a combination of feeling bad about betraying her lover coupled with her desire to be elsewhere. Then, like your gf, she would rally on our last two days together and drink a lot, want sex constantly, and shower me with boozy, counterfeit affection. Always just enough so that I went home thinking things were headed in the right direction.

BTW, her family was always ill when I was in town and she always had an excuse as to why I couldn't meet them. Sound familiar?

Sorry I can't be a cheerleader on this one, but there are plenty of others who will blow smoke up your popka and tell you what you wish to hear.

[Mishenka]

     Freedom, freedom, freedom. The main reason anyone from outside USA comes to live in USA is FREEDOM. Pre-nup's  never build trust, they take freedom and trust away. If you choose to write a pre-nup (really, what you have written is a marriage contract to try and control her) you will loose her as quickly as you found her, in a heart beat.

     This artistic woman can not be harnessed like a horse and trained anymore than you can be. You cannot put blinders on her and expect her to do as you say because it is written in your pre-nup. If she breaks the marriage contract, then what? There is no other reason to write such a thing unless to control. It won't work. Give up on the idea unless you are worth millions. Get to know her true heart. So far you have seen only what she wants you to see. These women are excellent actors. They deserve Emmy's for their performances. So far I don't see much love or trust in these past pages of posts. I see manipulation and control from both sides. The saga will continue, it is an addiction.

Marry for love, not lust. Then you won't have fear of loosing her, or have need of a marriage contract or Pre-nups. If there is any question that she really loves you, slow down and make sure. Then proceed with caution. After a year or two, think about that ring again.

As she told you, fear of controlling abusive husbands are a serious issue facing RW moving away from their homeland.  Why on earth would any woman in their right mind trade one prison for another? The ring episode? that didn't earn any points. It will backfire shortly. Eventually her fears will all sink into her mind and you will get the PMS treatment again. If not PMS, then it will be drinking or another behaviour.  Drop the idea of control and be a true leader. These women are far more cleaver than we give them credit. You may think you have control, but don't be mistaken. You will be sitting cozy in San Francisco while one night she gets a visit from an old F--k buddy and she will be telling you, she was in the mood and fell into temptation, just like she has before. The general morality in the FSU is far different than USA. It is as common for friends to have sex, as it is to go out to eat at a neighborhood restaurant. After all, as Nadya put it, " its a biological need, let's take care of it", "it's just hormones".

Women are moody on any given day for any reason. Learn to live with it or don't get involved at all. I have been with many, they all shared the same issues. Pride mixed with low self worth. Insecure but trying to show strength.  Loving, tender and caring but also can be hateful and vicious Mother Bear. Her children will come first before her husband. Make sure you can live with this.  If you can not live with the silence, the bad mood days, the bad mood weeks or months, don't get involved. They can charm the pants off you, then in a moment, frustrate you beyond your limits. They can take you from heaven to hell very quickly. They are all psychologists, or think they are. Many wear their feelings on their heart sleeves, or at least lead you to believe it, but in the end you will find it is just their personal style of mental manipulation. They are masters of it, but in the end, you wake up, your eyes are open and you see things as they really are. This is where this garden path has taken me after a dozen years of this journey. I hope you glean something from the experience spoken here. If not, maybe someone else will.

Be careful Sculpto, you only live once. Be careful.

Mishenka

[TwoBitBandit]

The Saga continues I hope it never ends!! I love the drama.
Anyone ever notice how Vodka.... and pot... can make all of life's difficulties seem like small ones?
Sculpt this is awesome!

Без бутылки не обойдётся!

[Ade]

I am actually surprised the  responses were not more critical..

Well, like the Vinny dude infers, most are a little tired of beating a dead horse. But having said that, my fiancée was more than a little impatient to hear how your story turned out after the first disastrous instalment and she was always asking me, "has Scupt-dude posted yet?"

I'll probably get a pinch for admitting that now.

 

[GoodOlBoy]

Hey, isn't it about time for another installment of "Sculpto's Highway to Hell?" 

Sculpto, please post something soon. I am getting kind of bored here in Sunny Isles Beach. 


GOB


PS....My wife also enjoys reading your saga. She keeps asking me "anything new?"

It's kind of funny, when I tell my beautiful wife that Sculpto has posted a new episode, she will usually pour a glass of wine for the both of us and then we sit together on the couch and read about Sculpto's horror story (on my laptop).

It's like a night out at the movies (R-rated) for the Hill family.  :evil:

[Sculpto]

Sculpto will perhaps confirm but I guess that offlimit means a place where the other part of the couple can not have a word to say about order, decoration, choices. This is a place that each one "owns" in the house with absolutely no compromise

My office/lab  and her studio are following this idea. There is no forbidden place, only place where we can do what we want without talking about it together before.

you are correct Docetae.. in fact this sort of arrangement is perfect for me.  I once lived with a woman who insisted on cleaning up my art studio.. I hated it and didn't want it and after she would do it even though I told her not to I couldn't find my stuff and on more than one occasion she messed stuff up.. not on purpose but just from not knowing how to handle my materials..

[Sculpto]

Sorry no new dramas to report.  I did get a flurry of sms messages once she knew I was home and we talked on the phone for a while.  Her friends "M" and "Y" were there and shouted HELLOOOO into the phone...

So, I am going to try and make sense of some of my feelings about the trip relative to some of her comments and also to some of the things people have pointed out...

The last night together was really sweet.  We stayed up most of the night talking and finally she showed a sign of weakness.  I mentioned something about her father and it sent her into tears.  Unlike earlier in the trip when she was hysterical about her father and pushed me away this time she let me comfort her. 

After she calmed down I asked her if she thought this trip had been good.  I was surprised by her answer.
 
She said, "I see what i need see". 

'What does that mean?' 

"I see when you angry you can to be very cruel.  I not like it, but it good.  You not robot"

'Why did you have to push me to see that.  You understand you were very close to lose me forever?'

"How you wish I will to go in USA with you and I not know all how you can be?"

'All you had to do was ask, I would have told you that when I am angry I can do one or two things.. either yell, or leave, why did you need to see it and feel it?  Why did you need to hurt me to see it?'

"I don't need blah blah, I want see real"

'Do not ever do that again.  I will not tolerate it.  You do it so you can trust me, but, it makes me lose trust in you'

"I not will do again"

[Sculpto]

We had a long discussion about our next meeting.  I am pretty much fed up with going to Russia and seeing her in the pressure cooker that is her life.  Just as she wanted to see me under pressure, I need to see her free from pressure.  So, I proposed meeting outside Russia, Thailand, Egypt, DR.. what would she prefer?

She chose Thailand.  She will pay her own ticket and I will pay mine.  We will split the cost of accomodations. 

I suggested staying on an island in a beachfront cabin.. someplace primitive.. she did not like the idea and wants to stay in a small resort someplace where there is a town and some street life.  She went on about needing electricity for her hair dryer.  It took some convincing, but, she finally understood that no matter how much she blows her hair as soon as she steps out of the airconditioning her hair is going to explode in the humidity.  The look on her face when she finally understood what tropical heat actually means was hilarious.  I also seem to have convinced her she can leave the high heals and makeup at home and that she needs to get a good pair of hiking boots. 

I am used to budget travelling with a backpack.. vagabonding and so on.  She has never done this.  So, I have concluded that I will start her off slow.. stay some days in the resport like she wants, but, I insisted that if we are going to go that far we have to go to Angor Wat in Cambodia and that travelling overland to Angor is not going to be a luxury sort of travelling.  I explained she will see destitute poverty and all the other negatives of travelling in a place so poor.  I explained she might be VERY uncomfortable in whatever mode of travel we take.  She agreed to give it a try.  Now, I do understand that the region around Angor has been built up a lot and it is not the backwater it once was, but, I suspect the beggars and scammers will be relentless, so, it will be interesting to see how she reacts to that scenario.  Will she react with compassion or disgust?

It brings up an interesting point.  During one conversation when "M" was visiting with us "A" mentioned my work with the children in Mexico as being a major factor in her initial interest in me.  I had shown her the photos of my school and my adopted family.  We had plans to visit an orphanage in Moscow but getting sick derailed those plans.  So, it wil be very interesting for me to see how she reacts to the poor street children of Cambodia or Thailand.

[Sculpto]

Here are a few random observations about life in Moscow... and some things we take for granted in the USA...

root vegetables do not come washed from the store or the street market.  It never occured to me before that scrubbing the dirt off of a potato was such a pain the arse.  Same for carrots, beets etc..

Street dopers are the same everywhere.  Coming out of the Kuznetsky Moct station in the evening was a bit of a shock the first time.  I don't know if any of the people in the shadows were shooting heroin, but, the drug vibe in that area was obvious and powerful. 

I could have met a LOT of women at the grocery store.  Every time I went to the grocery store alone I got a lot of IOIs (indicators of interest) from women of various age groups.  At first I thought I was imagining it, but, after a few times I realized I was not.  One one occasion I observed two men in the store and how women reacted to them.  Both men were about my age.  One guy was buying alcohol and looked the better part of a drunk.  People in general were almost hostile to him and the women ignored him.  The other guy was tall and handsome and was buying wholesome healthy food.  Women kept eyeing him the same way they were eyeing me. 

Same thing on the Metro.  the IOIs were frequent and sometimes very obvious.  The more interesting ones were when the ladies would avoid direct eye contact, but, look at me when they thought I wasn't looking, and then I would look directly at them and they would "look away".  I had a lot of fun playing this game on the subway and if my situation had been different I am very sure I could have made a lot of new friends.  BTW.. Garcia Marquez talks a lot about picking up women on public transportation in "Love in the Time of Cholera"  I have done this succesfully in SF many times and frankly Moscow would be a duck shoot for a PUA.

Seeing the fear in EVERYONE when a drunk guy came on the train and was acting "crazy".

Seeing the Militzia take away a couple of Tajik guys, and afterwars paying close attention to the cat and mouse game that it seems EVERY Tajik is playing with the cops.  Feeling myself doing the same the two days I was without my passport.  Realizing quickly that it was very unlikely I was going to get "pulled over" as it seemed I blended in rather well. 

Young men really do give up their seats on the metro for pretty girls and old ladies.  Young men really do offer their hand to pretty girls and old ladies getting off the marshutka.

When eating at My-My several of the servers knew enough English to help me along the cafeteria line and explain what was what.  the curiosity was genuine and I was asked on three seperate occasions where I am from and the word California was taken with warmth and welcome.  Felt great! 

Eating Georgian food from the street stands at the flea market. (Sorry forgot the name of the place) The apple fritter type things were delicious, I want one right now!

Spitting out my first sentences in Russian on the street or in stores and being answered in good English.. very cool!

Being recognized by the "gypsy" taxi driver who could have overcharged me but gave me change back the first time I rode with him.  Riding with him almost every evening afterwards in his right hand drive Toyota he drove all the way from Valdivostok was cool.  Finding a way to talk about boxing with same driver.  Answering his question about Obama with a thumbs up which was greeted with a big smile.  Obama thumbs up, Bush thumbs down.. laughter!

One evening when walking across the street from the apartment to the store being invited to go drink with a group of four girls and one guy.. "sorry, my Gf is waiting for me".. then realizing they lived in the same building on the same floor because they were int he hall smoking when I got back.  "A" was really sick at that point and I was still not even close to 100% so I declined the second invite.

The smoking area at the theater.. OMG!  I have never seen anything like it.  I felt bad for the non smoker.. wait.. there aren't any!  Pay attention to that folks.. it really seems EVERYONE smokes. 

[Sculpto]

I think the best move at this point would be to leave the alcohol alone and just smoke the buds together.

That would end all fighting, well all except for the mild argument over who is going to get up off the sofa to get more Pelmini.  

She says she doesn't like weed, though, if the weed she had in Russia is anything like the garbage I smoked in Odessa I can understand why.  You are right though.. seems to me weed would do her a world of good.  We will see how that plays out once she arrives in green bud central here in SF. 

[Sculpto]

Yes, smoking substunces, of course, did this too.

Sorry \i did not make myself clear. I just think his girl will grow up too, that's all. That's why I am wondering why not to look for a like-minded soul who takes part in wharever charity works etc,  his girl to me sounds like she is only experimenting...

She has been through her experimental phase Ranetka.  She settled on alcohol as her "drug" of choice.  She seems to be a happy "drunk" so it doesn't bother me.  Everything in moderation is my feeling on the topic.

As far as things in common.. its not exactly specific interests but a state of mind.  We share that in a way that is not likely to be understood easily by anyone here.  I gave her a reading list and bough Castenada "Don Juan" and Coelho's "Alchemist" for her.  She couldn't put Coelho down which is awesome.  That is my second favorite book and she not only loved it but totally understood why I asked her to read it.  I am waiting for a readnig list from her.  I also asked her to learn more about western and modern art which she has promised to do.  We both love theater and dance.  She isn't much into nature, but, frankly I have not found many FSUWs that are.  I suspect California will fix that for her.

[Sculpto]

AAAhhh, grab your girl Sculpto and be happy!!!!!!!!

Now this is what I am talking about.  One thing I noticed is when we "talked" too much she would get moody.. but.. if I just grabbed her and did as I wished.. she seemed to like that a lot..   Some people want action and not words..

[Sculpto]

Will this be in the prenup  [Sorry, couldn't resist a bit of sarcasm.]

Internet entrepreneur? She might be able to open some kind of small business on the internet, but do you really think she can realistically become an internet entrepreneur? As for being a writer in some way, that will take many years until her English is up to a decent level. Sure, there might be some Russian newspapers and the like, but there must be a fair number of Russian vying for those jobs. 

LOL, as a matter of fact it is in the "contract".

Why couldnt she do something on the internet Misha?  She is smart and talented.  It could be as mundane as getting something going on ebay to developing a monetized blog or god forbid a marriage agency.  I don't know why you would even doubt that.  BTW.. right now she is writing a screenplay that will be pitched to some Swiss producers.. she is excited to be writing this type of work, but, frustrated that she is doing the work on spec because she thought the publisher who will pitch the project was going to give her articles to write for his magazine.