Eyes and Ears

[CCowboy]

How many men have had this experience?  We correspond with a woman for several months, either through an agency or other source.  We are attracted to her photos and we feel a real connection from what she writes.  So, we plan a trip to visit that will cost $3000+.  We are excited of the probability that we may have finally met THE ONE.  When we finally meet, there is disappointment.  The photos are several years old when she was 10-15kg lighter.  This has happened to me far too many times. She believes that smoking a little is not really smoking.  This has happened to me a few times.  By the time the first meeting is over, you realize that she is NOT THE ONE.  Now we are back to square one and using a back-up plan...if we planned one in advance.  Of course, women can have the same impression when meeting a man for the first time.  But she has not spent $3000.  Unfortunately, I have experienced this too often.  Usually it was me relying on the honesty and integrity of an agency.  This is the main reason why I refuse to work with agencies.  Even the most "honest" still have the same problems with outdated photos and outdated information....but that is a different subject. 

On one of my visits I was visiting Dnepropetrovsk and a fellow member had been corresponding with a woman.  He asked me to meet her and give him some feedback , which I was happy to do.  He had arranged for a thank you gift for taking the time to meet with me.  My impression was not favorable, which I won't go in to.  Even with a short meeting, I suspected she was a pro-dater.  Despite relaying my impression back to him, he still made the trip, they met one time for an expensive dinner and was never to be seen again.  Guess he just had to find out for himself.

Years ago when I was visiting St. Petersburg, I worked with a woman named Ludmila Lizbanova.  We had an arrangement that she would meet with women I was corresponding with.  Usually she just told the woman she had flowers from me.  It wasn't that difficult to meet in the city center.  With all the men on RWD and the travel season approaching, I was thinking about the possibilities of us posting upcoming trips well in advance.  I'll be in Kharkov for the month of May.  I wouldn't mind being a man's eyes and ears for a short meeting.  I really wish that I had someone to meet many of the women I met on previous trips.  Again, my biggest problem was working with agencies who are mostly going to tell me what I want to hear and tell me what is needed for me to spend more money with them.  I'm just thinking that we can network and help each other out.  Having an unbiased and objective person on our side is a lot better than relying on the biased recommendations of an agency.  Also, using sites like Flirt or Loveplanet are not fool proof.  They have their share of pro-dates as well.  I think if a woman is serious about marriage with a foreign man and serious about a man she's corresponding with, she'll take the time.  I know we can accomplish this in some cities like with Mila in Kharkov, but for most cities, we are at the mercy of relying on a woman's or an agency's honesty.  I just think that if we have better networking, we can help each other in this process.  All feedback and comments welcomed.             

[Kuna]

CCowboy,

I kinda understand what you're saying but personally I wouldn't listen to someone else's advice when it comes to "attraction and compatibility", especially if they weren't a VERY close friend.  How could they know what interests you???  How could they know what creates a spark for you?

I dunno... it's all a bit too much "high school" for me - even though I understand your goal is related to support "on the ground".

I'd suggest to you that probably a BIG part of my finding "The One" on my first trip came from working my butt off finding and filtering contacts before traveling- and the focusing as much as possible on the one girl who REALLY grabbed my attention once I found her.

When you find "the one" - you'll know it!  You won't need anyone to confirm it...

Best of luck for your upcoming trip.

Kuna

[Gator]

CCowboy,

I agree with Kuna.

I have also encountered "non-smoking" smokers.  Perhaps I made them nervous.    
The "different from photo" woman is also a possibility, especially with women in their 40s.  Rarely did the difference bother me, certainly not 10-15 lbs of weight.  A woman who looked great 5 years ago still looks good. 

What bothered me was a difference in sense of humor, intellect, energy levels, sex, interests, basic values, etc.  These factors can be determined only by you in a meeting (although I know one guide who will gladly investigate the sexual parameters of your intended date).  In other words, how can someone else determine if you will have fun with the woman and like her?

[Misha]

CCowboy,

Rarely did the difference bother me, certainly not 10-15 lbs of weight. 

To be fair, CCowboy specified 10-15 kilograms (kg) which would be 22 to 33 pounds.

[Daveman]

CCowboy,

I agree with Kuna.

I have also encountered "non-smoking" smokers.  Perhaps I made them nervous.    
The "different from photo" woman is also a possibility, especially with women in their 40s.  Rarely did the difference bother me, certainly not 10-15 lbs of weight.  A woman who looked great 5 years ago still looks good. 

What bothered me was a difference in sense of humor, intellect, energy levels, sex, interests, basic values, etc.  These factors can be determined only by you in a meeting (although I know one guide who will gladly investigate the sexual parameters of your intended date).  In other words, how can someone else determine if you will have fun with the woman and like her?

Nail... Hammer... WHACK!  I think that's the real deal Gator..   The difference in a photo doesn't really bother me at all.. but differences in personality are an immediate killer -- and can only be measured by the two individuals in question.

[Gator]

To be fair, CCowboy specified 10-15 kilograms (kg) which would be 22 to 33 pounds.

That is huge!  I have never encountered such a difference.  Sounds like she eats a kg of smetana per day.  Check that, 1.0 kg/day is the average consumption of sour cream in Russia.  Must be the ice cream.

I have seen a few AW who gained that much with their breast implants.

[Misha]

I have seen a few AW who gained that much with their breast implants.

Let us not exaggerate, unless of course you meant this woman: Breast enhancement: Sheyla Hershey from Houston, Texas gets largest silicone implants - size 38KKK  :evil: Her implants may have weighed 10-15kg 

[CCowboy]

I agree with all the posts.  I'm not expecting someone else to decide if a woman is right for me or any man.  The most important things can only be learned from meeting face to face and spending time together.  What I was referring to was the woman that I've often met through agencies and learning the hard and expensive way that she is not as her photos appear.  Maybe because most women I meet are 40+ and not the young photo model type, it's a bigger problem for me.  I've been at this long enough to be able to go back to agency sites and see the same women and the same photos that go back several years.  I recently visited a site in St. Petersburg that posted photos of a woman I know to be at least 8 years old.  I doubt this is an isolated incidence.  I have found the same on other agency sites as well.  When I was a newbie, this was a trap I often fell into all too often.  For myself I have learned to do my homework to minimize these problems, though I'm not immune of deception.  I think it's realistic to say that if the physical chemistry isn't there, the relationship won't go any further, but there are exceptions.  Maybe it's not a good or realistic idea but there were a number of occasions for me where I wished I could have learned that the woman I was corresponding with is now several years older and not nearly as attractive as her photos led me to believe.  I'm not a superficial person and believe that inner qualities and other issues are the real make or break reasons in whether a relationship will work or not work.  I'm also aware that it's not just a woman's thing.  Plenty of guys present themselves to appear much better than they are in real life.  It's a crap shoot for both parties.  I'm just not opposed to being a man's eyes and ears to help if I can.        

[Shadow]

If any guy feels the pics might be out of date, why not ask for some recent ones ? That is a lot easier than getting a woman to meet a stranger for evaluation...

[kievstar]

Every women I met looked like her photo but two.  

First one. And I was not a gentlemen to start the date. I got a business call while waiting in the UAmiss agency office in Kiev (near Miami Blues restaurant).  She showed up 10 minutes late but I had to stay on this call and made her wait 15-20 minutes.  When I turned around she was all smiles but the agency messed up on the age and she was only 21-22 years old and not 28.  The weight was not an issue but the age was.  We had a nice meal at a sushi restaurant with cocktails.  But had to stop there at 1 meeting.  Just too young for me.   But a very nice and serious girl.  She is marrying a guy from Italy so things worked out for her.  She has a terrible life story.  Parents murdered etc.  So really happy for her.  

That agency still laughs to this day how I made her wait and did not get the evil eye. I got lucky.  

The second was a girl at Kiev Connections.  She was listed at 5 foot 9 or 10 inches tall (I forget).  She was really only 168-170 cm.   I saw her a couple times but after finding out she dated Marcus Fizer for more than a year (very rich basketball player - 30 million salary and 29 or 30 years old).  That gave me a reason not to see her.  But the height was an issue for me as I like tall girls and I had her meet several of my friends in Kiev to convince myself height should not be an issue.  I needed another reason to dump her than height for some reason.  Marcus Fizer is the current version of Shawn Kemp.  The fact she would date a guy with his background showed her character flaws.  Got my second reason.    I also have mutual friends in Milwaukee with Marcus Fizer and he wanted this girl back.  You can wikipedia Marcus Fizer for more information.  She is still in the agencies and she runs a very good business in Kiev.  Many men think she is a pro dater but she is serious.

There was no letter writing in the above examples as I was living in Ukraine .

[Lily]

CCowboy, to minimize chances on disappointment, you may want to try real time videoconferencing with your candidates. A webcam is not that expensive.

[BC]

CCowboy, to minimize chances on disappointment, you may want to try real time videoconferencing with your candidates. A webcam is not that expensive.

It's a crap shoot until you get close enough to smell 'em I say...

Pheromones, pure and simple..

[Tamara]

I'll be in Kharkov for the month of May.  I wouldn't mind being a man's eyes and ears for a short meeting.  I really wish that I had someone to meet many of the women I met on previous trips.  Again, my biggest problem was working with agencies who are mostly going to tell me what I want to hear and tell me what is needed for me to spend more money with them.  I'm just thinking that we can network and help each other out.  Having an unbiased and objective person on our side is a lot better than relying on the biased recommendations of an agency.  Also, using sites like Flirt or Loveplanet are not fool proof.  They have their share of pro-dates as well.  I think if a woman is serious about marriage with a foreign man and serious about a man she's corresponding with, she'll take the time.  I know we can accomplish this in some cities like with Mila in Kharkov, but for most cities, we are at the mercy of relying on a woman's or an agency's honesty.  I just think that if we have better networking, we can help each other in this process.  All feedback and comments welcomed.             

Whether it's being eyes and ears or any other reason, I am open to help.  I will be in Tyumen and Tobolsk at the end of March and in Saint-Petersburg in the beginning of April.

It's a crap shoot until you get close enough to smell 'em I say...
Pheromones, pure and simple..

It's better than nothing.  At least one can see how the lady looks, behaves, see her answer the questions asked, etc.  It tells a lot.  I realize not all can do this, some do not have computer at home.  But I do like Mila's suggestion.

[I/O]

I'll be in Russia in a few months and am happy to provide any amount of visual appraisals for a modest fee. Hell I'm happy to do it for free whilst Mrs isn't looking...........................................

CCowboy: Your idea is no doubt well intended but we ain't checkin' out yealing heifers as one might have their farm neighbour do, these girls are a touch brighter than that (for the most part). I can't speak for all the women but I can speak for Mrs and I know (LOL) what her reaction would have been if I'd asked a friend or someone else (Other than a florist) to drop flowers in to her. She'd have seen through that one in a heartbeat and surfice to say she certainly wouldn't have been waking up with me this morning.

Kindly thought but I doubt it'll get legs.

I/O

[SANDRO43]

Dan, why don't you introduce a new membership category, the RWD Privet Private Eye ?

[ambach123]

I don't think one meeting should be or could be decisive. You build a relationship over time and find common grounds which may not be obvious in the beginning.

As the story goes, President Obama and his wife did not like each other when they first met; she did not like him at all, he liked her some. It was the third time that he asked her that she accepted for a frist date, and then waited for some time for a second date. As she says now " I had nothing for him ". Eventually they found things in common and built a relationship.

Michelle is the biggest asset the President has and but for that relationship, the history of United States would be different. Lucky for us ( or unlucky depending upon your political persuation); neither the President nor Michelle made final snap judgments on one or even a few meetings. They appear to be more in love than I have ever seen a first couple in my lifetime.

Building a relationship is the same, whether you are doing it on the grounds of Harvard Law School in Cambridge, or at the Double Coffee in Kiev. It takes time, patience and more than anything else commitment, and like our first family some common goals.

Almost all the people who are happily married, whether in FSU or their hometown girl have things in common, are committed to each other, things often not obvious in the first meetings.

Using a third party to evaluate these issues is utterly useless.

[Phil dAmore]

An unbiased on-site appraisal?   This was one of the many unpublished services Nina and I would provide for our clients.  Nina has an uncanny ability to see right to the core of person and find out exactly what their true motivation is.  On more than one occasion it saved a client a lot of expense and heartbreak.

But more often the client would not listen. By ignoring that most basic of rules for anyone involved in FSU-woman pursuit - NEVER fall in love with a picture- more than a few of our clients very nearly ended up in a bad relationship.  There are some who will simply NOT listen to advice despite repeated warnings and blindingly-obvious indicators that a particular woman is playing them for a fool.

From time to time I have wondered if it wouldn't be a good idea to ingest a little -ahem- saltpeter prior to making a trip thereby ensuring all of the blood stays in the big head when meeting face to face.

[2tallbill]

CCowboy, on a completely unrelated and off topic note. If you break up
your post every 4 lines or so with a blank line in between even if there
is no reason in English grammar to do so,  it makes your post much easier
to read.

I did it below to your original post

Quote from CCowboy
How many men have had this experience?  We correspond with a woman for several months, either through an agency or other source.  We are attracted to her photos and we feel a real connection from what she writes. 

So, we plan a trip to visit that will cost $3000+.  We are excited of the probability that we may have finally met THE ONE.  When we finally meet, there is disappointment.  The photos are several years old when she was 10-15kg lighter.  This has happened to me far too many times.

She believes that smoking a little is not really smoking.  This has happened to me a few times.  By the time the first meeting is over, you realize that she is NOT THE ONE.  Now we are back to square one and using a back-up plan...if we planned one in advance. 

Of course, women can have the same impression when meeting a man for the first time.  But she has not spent $3000.  Unfortunately, I have experienced this too often.  Usually it was me relying on the honesty and integrity of an agency. 

This is the main reason why I refuse to work with agencies.  Even the most "honest" still have the same problems with outdated photos and outdated information....but that is a different subject. 

On one of my visits I was visiting Dnepropetrovsk and a fellow member had been corresponding with a woman.  He asked me to meet her and give him some feedback , which I was happy to do.  He had arranged for a thank you gift for taking the time to meet with me. 

My impression was not favorable, which I won't go in to.  Even with a short meeting, I suspected she was a pro-dater.  Despite relaying my impression back to him, he still made the trip, they met one time for an expensive dinner and was never to be seen again.  Guess he just had to find out for himself.

Years ago when I was visiting St. Petersburg, I worked with a woman named Ludmila Lizbanova.  We had an arrangement that she would meet with women I was corresponding with.  Usually she just told the woman she had flowers from me.  It wasn't that difficult to meet in the city center. 

With all the men on RWD and the travel season approaching, I was thinking about the possibilities of us posting upcoming trips well in advance.  I'll be in Kharkov for the month of May.  I wouldn't mind being a man's eyes and ears for a short meeting.  I really wish that I had someone to meet many of the women I met on previous trips. 

Again, my biggest problem was working with agencies who are mostly going to tell me what I want to hear and tell me what is needed for me to spend more money with them.  I'm just thinking that we can network and help each other out. 

Having an unbiased and objective person on our side is a lot better than relying on the biased recommendations of an agency.  Also, using sites like Flirt or Loveplanet are not fool proof.  They have their share of pro-dates as well.  I think if a woman is serious about marriage with a foreign man and serious about a man she's corresponding with, she'll take the time. 

I know we can accomplish this in some cities like with Mila in Kharkov, but for most cities, we are at the mercy of relying on a woman's or an agency's honesty.  I just think that if we have better networking, we can help each other in this process.  All feedback and comments welcomed.           

end of quote from  CCowboy

[steve057]

CCowboy,
             While I am not an expert,Skype could be the answer for you? Although a photo may be airbrushed or out of date, live video will not lie! If she cannot speak English you can chat and translate and still use the video to see each other. Just a thought!  Steve

[2tallbill]

CCowboy,
             While I am not an expert,Skype could be the answer for you? Although a photo may be airbrushed or out of date, live video will not lie! If she cannot speak English you can chat and translate and still use the video to see each other. Just a thought!  Steve

I agree, not only will the skype fisheye camera not lie, she WILL look better in
person, not worse and so will you. 

Udachi

Bill

[CCowboy]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I don't have a specific woman I'm trying to have checked out.  In Kharkov, I plan to mainly use Mila and the personal ad approach.  When I started this thread, my thought was about men networking with each other.  As noted earlier, I was asked by a list member to meet with a woman he was corresponding with in Dnepropetrovsk.  He wanted to give her a gift and ask for my opinion.  It took less than 30 minutes and I was

able to send him photos and my impression of the woman.  Nothing more.  I just thought that with the large number of men on RWD, it would be a good idea to help each other out.  Not every man would want this approach or needs it.  But for some, I think it would be beneficial.  This is not about some complicated analysis.  It's simply giving feedback that would be difficult for a man to obtain being 1000's of miles away.         

[topofthekey]

An unbiased on-site appraisal? 

So the commercial property is worth how much? Any termite damage? How new is the roof? Other than just verifying that she is a she I'm not sure how much someone who doesn't really know you can do for you in terms of an unbiased on-site apprasial.

Not wanting to start a debate in the various approaches. But this is one of the reasons I (and many others) who travel this long distance meet more than one on a trip.

My suggestion would be if your approach to this failed you in the past go ahead and give a new approach a try.

[CCowboy]

Phil,  You're missing the point.  I'm not looking for someone to check out a woman for me.  Thanks to using agencies too often in the past and relying that the photos and information was honestly presented, I had less than satisfactory results using agencies.  I'm done with agencies and looking forward to working with Mila in Kharkov.  I just felt that with the resources available with RWD, we can all help each other.  I don't think that meeting a woman for 30 minutes to give her flowers or a small gift on behalf of a man takes rocket science or is a complicated matter.  Again, I'm not looking for someone to be my eyes and ears.

[UTRO]

Alright Canadian Club Cowboy....... I have to ask....... I thought you were Engaged with Irina?? What happened???

[CCowboy]

I made a return trip for the Christmas/New Years holidays for 3 weeks.  It was the first time I've returned for a second trip and actually stayed with a woman.  Several things happened that told me we were not right for each other.  Despite leaving money for her and her daughter to take English lessons, neither made much progress.  In fact, communication was no better than it was on my first visit.  I brought over 2000 Russian/English flash cards.

Never looked at them.  I installed Abbyy Lingvo 12 on their computer.  Never looked at it.  There was zero effort to try to say anything in English.  Irina could not go past "B" in the alphabet.  Her daughter got as far as "D".  Effort was made by both my translator Armina and Taz who was there at the same time explaining how important it was to make studying English a priority and suggestions how to study better.  It went on deaf ears.  There was also some outside interference that caused problems. 

I later learned that Irina was not so interested in moving to the U.S. which probably explains her lack of effort to study.  Like I said, there were other issues.  The longer I stayed, the more I realized things were not going to work out.  I still think that Irina is a good woman but too unrealistic and too naive in her expectations.  I'm also sure Irina had some issues with me.  Bottom line:  I wasn't willing to continue to pay for english lessons after such poor results.  For me, there were too many red flags.

I could write a much more detailed explanation but I don't think I need to say more.