April travel! Need help with budgeting...

[Diplomacy]

Dyan:

Thank you for the clarification.  In your case, I think this woman deserves every minute of your time.  She has waited and waited, and you reacted when her patience wore thin.  I commend you on your honesty, and her understanding. 

My theory, is she knows you are a good man.  Keep doing what you are doing.

My whole situation, was different than most.  It was a blind date, and we have mutual friends.  My trips were literally, what her life was.  My premise was, understand what her life is all about and then we could both make a real decision about a life together.

I wanted to see how we worked together, and if there was chemistry.  All I can say in my case, she was better in person than the pictures and communication.  We had a great time, and are both better for having spent the time together.

There were misunderstandings, and each time it was easier to work through them.  We spent a lot of time cooking together, walking in the parks, walking to the markets.  We spent some time as guests with friends and family.  They had more food prepared, then I could ever eat.  I brought flowers and Cognac to each place I was invited.

I do not like to throw money around people that have worked hard their whole lives, and still do not make much of an income to show for it.  My gifts were thoughtful, but not expensive.  Coffee table books, shake flashlights that do not require batteries.

I also received many gifts, so you do not want to outshine their gift.  If they want to buy you beer, or vodka.  Let them.  They do not cost much there, and it is a experience a lot of them will talk about for a long time.  The time that they got to drink with an American.

My trip was thought out, to meet our objectives.  I did not want to go out to four star dining, and paint the town red.  It is not my style of romance, and would rather cook a four star meal.  We will got out on special occasions, to those types of places. 

I wanted expectations set, of what my life is really like here.  If anything it was understated, versus what it is here.  Real concerns were overcome, obstacles removed, and made room for a new and different set.

The less distractions the better was my plan.  I had a blast, and a set of adventures.  Some dismal failures, and glorious achievements.  Her parents are at peace, with who I am, that their daughter and son will be cared for.

I also needed to ensure that her son and I were a good match also.  He actually bonded with me much faster than I thought possible.  He is going to exhaust me, but it will be a fulfilling fatigue.

   

[Vinnvinny]

I also received many gifts, so you do not want to outshine their gift.  If they want to buy you beer, or vodka.  Let them.  They do not cost much there, and it is a experience a lot of them will talk about for a long time.  The time that they got to drink with an American.

I don't think it's an 'American' thing Diplomacy, some of these girls like to spend time with 'Western' men regardless of where they are from. 

[Noyrt]

Dynaf,   I am sympathetic to your cause cause I am in a similar situation..  Had a good established job and was planning a visit to Ukraine to meet a NEW woman..  I got laid off last week and now sort of panic'ed.. I plan to take my trip and hopefully meet her still but she hasn't been as responsive to writing since news of my job..  (I was honest with her)..

I was engaged to a UW in years past and have visited the Ukraine 3 times. My engagement didn't work after 5-6 months of effort but that's another long story.. I'm smarter now..

As for travel and expenses, It's been three years since I was last in Ukraine, and I was traveling cheap then... as well..  Kiev was the most expensive place and I would reccommend to see it  but not stay to longer than necessary.  Dollars will fly away there. Typical of any larger city in the US. Cheapest hotel I found in Kiev was $85 and it was not very close to anything.. long bus ride into the city..

Is she meeting you at the airport in Kiev? Hope so....  Regardless,  stay in control of the negotiations for anything.... Don't get rattled.... your an american.. you don't take crap off people.. Keep that in the back of your mind..  Its good to let her negotiate sometimes but keep your money out of sight.. and be aware that she is not always aware of the possible corruption involved in the government as you are from reading these posts..  Taxes / Fee's etc.. I speak about.. most are BS... Be a little stubborn with negotiation, it will save you $$.  Get prices up front if taxi does not have a meter installed..  Lot's of do-it-yourself taxi drivers..
Telephone taxi, are usually more ligitimate business.   Taxi from BSP airport to center of city or Train station is should be $20-30.  Most marchutcka  locatad at the train station can get you to any city in the ukraine if you don't take  the trains..  Better price on the small mini busses but crowded and not comfortable.. can be 4-6 hr ride or longer.. with stops for breaks.. etc..

Back to your buget..  stay in flats / apartments when possible,  but you will need help to find them from your lady... advertised in local papers for each town or on bullitin boards.. usually in Russian... and abbreviated.. Hard to do alone!  I've tried..  Still I've found apartments with the help of ladies as cheap as $20 a week.  WOW... that was great.. but then your tied to her as she helped you,, remember that, If you go out on your own to meet others. Hopefully you will have a good meeting with just one woman,.

Note: I usually traveled to meet only one an has been fairly good,, they take you more serious when you arrive..  but still the bottom line relationship has to be there in the long run.. remember that also.. 

As for money,, my last trip  after my woman and I didn't work out.. sadly... I departed and traveled around Ukraine alone for 2 months. trying to meet other women.. much harder without first having made contact with letters.. (they don't take you as serious and suspect you are a player - it takes much longer for them to open up to you and also to abuse the company of your friendship.. (just to have fun at your expense)  Anyway.. before I get to rambling I survived for 2months on about $3000.  Pretty much on my own! 

My tips:  Carry two money belts for safety, one around yoru waist under clothes, and the second around your neck under shirt.. Never access either in public!!  Keep most cash in your waist, and a little (day-to-day) around your neck.. Keep the daily money in your pocket or wallet.. Yes it get hot an sweatty... deal with it...

Carry a Credit Card  but try not to use it unless you can pay it off easily... don't leave any cash in hotel or apartments (don't know who has a key)  safer kept on you.. I've never been robbed or threatened.. but I don't put myself in those places!

I would say $100 a day should be plenty of you have cheap lodging....   Most small town restaurants were about $20-30 for a good meal for 2 people..  Keiv about $40-50.

Taxi drivers for smaller cities know most of the cheaper hotels, though most were at least $20 a night..  the cheapest I found was about $5 a night but you had to share rooms with vagrants sometimes and I didn't like someone else walking in while I was sleeping,, but it was interresting from time to time.. and I never stayed more than one night and left anything in the room unless it was MY room.. solely..  Some hotels want you to leave your key at the desk when you walk out... thus not to get lost... I always refused, and thought it created conflict. whit security.. I simply said " I I loose the key I will pay for the new lock, how much does it cost??? the reply. was usually  less than $50.  My risk,, no problem.. Stuff like that ,, be an American.. :-) 

Good luck, let me know if I can help further.. Have fun...  Tryon



If you don't want to carry a lot of cash... Good to carry an ATM card from your bank also (take 2 if you can, in case one doesn't work or gets lost)  You can pull local money from the ATM, also.. though choose larger banks.. I heard bad stories of getting ripped off, but never had any problems myslef.. You will pay a fee of about $5 a hundred, but not have to carry as much cash..  I used this for the last two weeks when I was low on cash...  get two simple bank accounts and put $500 in each for this if possible. Make sure the ATM card works out of the US.

Ukraine cell phone is good to have but you have to buy it there and prepay the time, can be 50 cnets an minute.. or more.. expensive! 



 
   

 

 


 




 

[Noyrt]

One more thing,, if using a CC be sure to call your card company and tell them your are going out of town and will be using the card in that country.. tell them the dates of your travel.. Otherwise they will put a fraud alert on your card and it will stop working..  think ahead.. stuff like that..

[2tallbill]

I would stay in an apartment and not a hotel. You can save
a bundle by cooking in rather than going to restaurants.

Buying food in the market is pretty inexpensive and walking
around, taking the little micro buses and site seeing is very,
very low cost.

Museums etc are very cheap, the time spent together is
priceless and doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. Buy
bottled water and use it for everything even to brush your
teeth with.

Join a frequent flier program if you haven't already.

You can play billiards for very little money, the Russian
table is huge the balls are big and the pockets are small
and it's harder than it looks. Bowling is pretty cheap too.

Take lots of photos (digital camera) and let her delete the
ones she hates. Most digital cameras have an attachment
that you can see the pictures on the TV. Going back through
your day in pictures on t.v. is usually pretty fun.

The piva (beer) is pretty good and very inexpensive.

Bring some hot chocolate and marshmallows, (they are nearly
nonexistent in the FSU) make smores (you will have to bring
the stuff), Having fun doesn't have to cost a lot of money,
planning a little can save a lot.

Long rambling post for sure

Udachi !


Bill

[Dyanaf]

Hey! Thanks for the additional replies and tips.  All of it is very helpful and has given me more ideas. My plans are pretty solid now, but the advice is never wasted!

To clear some things up... I'm not quite bankrupt or scraping by with only pennies to my name. I just have slightly limited funds, so I'm trying to make as long a trip as I can without creating any debt or robbing from my other responsibilities.  I had been hoping to use some of the flight miles and hotel points that I've been accruing for the last 4 years in my thankless job, but apparently there are no Marriott hotels in Ukraine

I've already bought plane tickets, I'll be arriving in Kiev on April 17th and leaving on May 4th. We'll be staying in Kiev for 3 nights, attending Easter services at the Sophia Cathedral or possibly St Michael's. (I left the choice to her).  Then we'll be traveling by train to her city to spend the last few days of the holiday with her family (I had no idea Easter celebrations could last several days!). After a few days in her city, we take the train to Lviv for a week or so.  Then we return to her city for 2 nights and then back to Kiev for 1 last night.

I've made the situation perfectly clear to her, and she has been amazing trying to accommodate me.  I wanted to spend 10 days together, which could have been done very comfortably and in some great apartments or hotels.  However, she insisted I stay as long as I could and has been wonderful about finding ways to stretch our budget.  In fact, she insisted that we ride the train at night, so that we wouldnt need apartments for those nights!

We will certainly be cooking a little for ourselves.  I've promised to cook a few dishes for her and she's promised to cook some for me.  Out of 18 days that I'll be there I'll be surprised if we eat at restaurants more then 4 or 5 times and my understanding is that cafes are quite reasonably priced.

Overall, I'm very excited. I will take the phone numbers of some agencies, but only because so many people recommend the backup plan. I have no doubt that I will be spending the entire time with her, but there's no reason not to listen to experience

[Sculpto]

Hello Dyanaf.

I don't mean to offend you, BUT......IMHO trying to start a new relationship "on the cheap" with a FSU woman, may not be the best idea. 

Just my 2 cents.

GOB

On the contrary!  If the man has a lady that understands economic reality he is that much further ahead in the game.  And, the chances of her being a gold digger are also reduced to almost nil.  I applaud the man for being honest with his girl about his situation and I applaud the girl for showing that she cares about him by understanding and offering to help.

Now.. talk to your girl about finding the apartment.  She will get a better price.  What will be acceptable accomodations for her, if she is in fact an average wage earner could actually be less acceptale for you.  Keep that in mind. 

The other advice about handing your girl the money is spot on.  My girl did most of the paying, though, she was very very surprised when I got better prices for the lada taxi from the Metro to the apartment than she did.  After that she always paid 50r also... we both thought it was 100r before..

Try to find intersting things to do that do not cost money.. walking in the park.. bus ride to Uman.. visiting churches of architectural importance.. picnics (if the weather is conducive).  If you are staying together in the apartment it gives her the chance to cook for you.  My girl insisted on cooking for me.. I wanted to go out to eat sometimes.. she would say.. "why you want waste money, I will to cook for you"

When you want to splurge on something, don't ask her about it.. just do it.  If you ask she will say no most likely.. if you just do she will apreciate the extra effort and see you as a MAN. 

I hate to bring up ambach.. but one of the major flaws I have seen in his system is he is not shy about showing his wealth with his "dates".  If I had money to burn I would not show it for a second.  I want a woman to be attracted to what is in my soul, not my current or future wallet.

Honestly I am not sure why so many of you guys are so sure you need piles of money to do this.  Didn't we just hear about someone who had a date that felt uncomfortable that he took her home in the taxi because she was ashamed of the poverty in which she lived?  If someone is not rich, why would you want to make them feel bad because they do not have the economic means you do?  Do you feel some kind of power of attraction because you have more money than she does?  Isn't that a rotten way to base a marriage?  Doesn't that automatically say to your potential wife.. "I am more valuable as a provider than as a human"  and why would anyone want to be seen that way?

I would say spending too much on this endeavor is a recipe for failure.

[privet]

Hi DyanaF,

May I ask what city she lives in? (You've mentioned Kiev, Lviv, and "her city"). Is it Lutsk?

In any case, re: calling the US. You can buy a cheap cell phone here (in the Ukraine), and then get LIFE service for it. It's easy. Then go to their website and you can join their world calling service. I call the US for 1 grivna per minute, which is about 13 cents.

[ECOCKS]

Considering the tight economy, you can get by on a $100 a day. Decent apartment, breakfast in the apartment, hitting Puzata Hata (or other normal places) for lunch, doing "something big" every day like the Opera, doing one of the several museums, etc. Enjoy riding the metros. The rest of the time you can be walking and talking (Kreshatyk, Kontraktova, riverfront, parks, malls and so on), sampling the cafes (stay out of Reprisa and Gloria Jeans) and such. Consider if your objective is to build a relationship or take a vacation?

Any gal who is insisting on a packed itinerary doesn't strike me as seriously trying to get a relationship going. 

As for those who are pointing out that many FSUW will be a bit put off by your low-key spending and economy-minded activities, this is correct. You need to ask yourself though whether those that are not going to be happy with the real you are going to be a real burden.

Have fun by all means but don't lose sight of your original objective.   

[Dyanaf]

She lives in Khmelnitskiy, so it's a convenient stop between Kiev and Lviv.

As for activities, we are planning mostly the same things you all are suggesting.  Museums, parks, etc. We will do a few big activities, such as an Opera in Lviv, but mostly we'll just be spending time in a way to learn about each other.  Keep in mind, we have been talking for almost a year and we are far more interested in learning about each other then we are in doing activities.

I want to reiterate though, this woman is definitely a good woman.  She is eventually going to be a wonderful wife for someone. I have no doubts about her intentions or her desire.  It is really only a question of whether we will be compatible and whether that extra will exist between us.