April travel! Need help with budgeting...

[Dyanaf]

Hello! Everyone here is so helpful I figured I would ask you all for a bit of advice.

I am planning a visit to Ukraine for mid-April and could use some help.  I am visiting one woman and she is adamant that I stay for as long as possible, even if it means staying in cheaper apartments and not visiting very many restaurants or even using taxis often.

The current plan is to stay a few days in Kiev when I arrive, then travel to Lvov for several days, then go to her city for some time around Orthodox Easter and then spend another 2 days in Kiev before I leave.

Our room requirements are pretty reasonable.  We need 2 places to sleep (I am fine with a couch), a bath and shower and a kitchen with oven & stove.  Other niceties would be internet access and central to the city.  We found apartments in these cities that meet our requirements, but if anyone knows better deals, I would certainly appreciate a heads up.

Kiev - $60/night
Lvov - $24/night

I am also concerned about daily expenses... What can I expect to spend per day if I am being somewhat frugal?  Food, taxis, tickets into museums, etc?

I have never traveled to Ukraine before, so if there are mandatory fees I should be aware of, I'd appreciate that also.   

If you need any other details to give proper advice, I am almost an open book.   

*edit*
I suppose I should say, I am on a very tight budget, given current economic realities.  I would love to be able to say I will learn the best deals when I am there and be ready for next time, but I have to be a little cheap on my this trip.  Luckily, this woman understand and is helping me.

[topofthekey]

The economic situation sure can make travel difficult for many people. I'm sure there will be plenty of people posting behind me that will tell you how expensive this entire process is. When I traveled I got what I would consider to be an OK price on the plane ticket and my travel was cheap because I stayed in the same room with a friend. But we took taxis everywhere and always ate out and stayed out nights.

You might have to crunch some numbers and decide if now is the time to go and if you can afford to do it. One way to cut expenses might be to stay in her city the entire trip especially considering it is probably a lot cheaper place to stay and do things in than Kiev.

What might help is if you post what you paid for your ticket (if you have) and how much money you have to spend.

I'm sure more advice is on the way.

[GoodOlBoy]

Hello Dyanaf.

I don't mean to offend you, BUT......IMHO trying to start a new relationship "on the cheap" with a FSU woman, may not be the best idea. 

Just my 2 cents.

GOB

[Faux Pas]

Dyanaf,

I have never been to Ukraine but from what I can gather, once in country, expenses run very closely to that of Russia. Moscow being an exception. I personally budget $250 per day. This includes lodging and all incidentals. Taxis, meals, entertainment and any other expense I might incur. Granted, that is living pretty high on the hog and I have always returned with a money in my pocket. I can see where the more frugal could reasonably budget $150 per day and not be on too tight of a budget they they could not have a good time. Rare are the days that I actually spend $250 but a couple of times I'v spent more. If you are indeed watching your dollars closely, you can have a good time on $150 per day. Your lodgings maybe a bit subpar and you don't eat at the white table cloth restaurants. These are not necessities for every one.

I would not be a bit surprised if some of our more "earthy" members explain how to do it on $100 a day or less. It is all a matter of your standards I guess. I generally carry cash in a number of places and one credit card for the rare opportunity that I need it. Hope this helps

[OlgaH]

Dyanaf,

It is very good and  reasonable you are planning you budget.  I give more respect to a man who able to do so, than to a man who will waste his money  trying to empress a woman or somebody else. Every decent FSU woman understands that money in US doesn't grow on the palms and people also work hard as in any other country, and that not every man in US is a millionaire. When Robert and I were going to meet in Russia even for the first time we discussed our budget together. I see nothing wrong about it 

Here are some links that probably can be also helpful. I don't know if information is updated on that websites. I think guys who recently were in Ukraine will give more up-to-date information

Kiev opera house: Ticket prices start at 45 Hryvnia ($5.00), and up
http://kievukraine.info/opera_house.htm

Kiev Restaurants
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurants-g294474-Kiev.html

Kiev  Taxi Companies
Shown below is a list of Kiev taxi companies.  The average fare, in town, is about 10-15 Hryvnia ($2.00-$3.00 US).

[Shadow]

When in Kiev, you do not need to take taxis a lot.
The metro system is superb, there are minibuses and after taking some long walks I can tell you that in the center of Kiev most things are conveniently placed.
If you are a bit away, let your lady arrange a ride. It will cost less than a taxi, provided you keep your mouth shut, give the money and let her do the deal.

If you can let het do the or are not afraid to taste some of the cheaper places, you can keep your budget tight.

[remiel6]

Having traveled to the Ukraine in December I echo the advice given about letting the girlfriend pay for things, taxi's in particular, and at all cost avoid the guys at the airport offering to give you a ride. They will charge you a lot of money. If you do a websearch you can find lots of sites with apartments to rent and there should be some nice ones within your budget range. I can't vouch for all of them, or any for that matter. Also I found a lot of places that did not accept credit cards so my advice is to keep cash. It is a fairly inexpensive country, at least compared to other places in Europe so I had no problem staying within a reasonable budget. Still I wouldn't be so frugal that I made a bad impression on the lady either. Not sure if that helps or not, good luck to you.

[GoodOlBoy]

Still I wouldn't be so frugal that I made a bad impression on the lady either.

My point exactly.

If you come across as a pauper, she and her relatives will worry about the future (if she is "the one") and if you can actually support her or not when she gets to the GoodOl' USA.

GOB

[Vinnvinny]

Got to agree with GoodOlBoy here despite what Olga said. Sure, there’s no need to be stupid with money and you don’t have to be super rich but ….  do the majority of FSU ladies really want to leave their family, friends, careers etc and move 1,000’s of miles to live on a ‘very tight budget’? My view is no they don't.

[OlgaH]

do the majority of FSU ladies really want to leave their family, friends, careers etc and move 1,000’s of miles to live on a ‘very tight budget’? My view is no they don't.

But if a guy has a tight budget a woman should know about it.

[Vinnvinny]

But if a guy has a tight budget a woman should know about it.

I agree Olga but she will know soon enough. However, if the buget is very tight .....

[Vinnvinny]

Dyanaf: The best advice I can give you is that unless you really have to then don’t go to Kiev. Very expensive and well overrated IMO. It’s fine if you want to splash some cash on wining, dining and clubbing but I guess from what you have written then that isn’t a priority for you.

[ScottinCrimea]

I agree with vinny that one good way to save cash is to spend as little time as possible in Kiev.  It's like those who travel to Crimea and think they have to stay in Yalta.  There are other places just as nice, or nicer IMO, that are 1/3 or less the cost of Yalta, but everyone seems to gravitate to Yalta because that's all they know.

[Diplomacy]

I can live in Ukraine for $30 for the apartment, $20 if you go to the open air market for food (Per day).  That was my second trip, my first was a weaker dollar and we went to the circus.  That was closer to $150 a day, I got them a bunch of things I felt they needed also. (Engagement Ring)

You are looking at a budget for the trip.  You are looking at an additional $1,000 for the green card, little less than a $1,000 to get the visa, flight to get her here, another trip at a minimum, gifts for her and her family.  Whatever health insurance is for a month when she gets here, car, driving school, English lessons, and other things.

It is around $20,000, by the time it is said and done.  You know better than I, what is possible for you both to accomplish.  I just do not like when people say, if you are trying to budget then you can not do it.  The $20,000 is just getting their feet on American soil.

That amount is to get them here, I supported them to live, so she could get degree work done. English Lessons are $100 a month. $50 for the internet, but I got a 10 gig download so she can download articles and research for University.  I have twice the cost on visas, process, flights here, paid a lawyer for the K1 processing, Xmas, new years, valentines, laptop, internet, air card, clothes, makeup, and living comfortable versus fighting to make ends meet.  She has a son, so that added to the costs.

Looking at the numbers, the lowest budget expectation is about $12,000-$14,000.

If you are on a budget, have a back up plan.  I would go to her city and see if there is chemistry.  You will only have so many days together, to see where you think the relationship should go.  I would plan on a second trip, and a third.

[Daveman]

Taxis are dirt cheap if you call them on the phone rather than flagging them down on the street. Not as cheap as marshrutka or cheaper yet, buses. For example, flag on street on my last trip, 30hrn... call in -- 15hrn for the same run. This is pretty common in every city I've visited in both Ukraine and Russia.  Find a number for a taxi (there are advertisements on the street all over the place, signs on the sidewalks).

This does take a chunk of change before all is said and done.  Especially so if your first lady doesn't lead to marriage (and absolutely do NOT go there thinking that it will... wait and see and let it grow normally).

Let's just say I don't travel or stay first class, and I have spent well above Diplomacy's maximum figure there... and I'm back to square one, so to speak.  I certainly don't want to put a damper on your dreams, but really, don't try to marry a lady on the fast and cheap. Sure you can DO it, but you just might regret it in more ways than one.  Be willing to put in the time, effort, and expense required to build a relationship--- AND be willing to walk away and don't look back, even if you lose all the time and money you've "wasted" up to that point...  It's a tough reality sometimes, but, snot happens...

Good luck with it...

[Dyanaf]

Thank you everyone for the replies! All of it is great advice and I am sure it will all be useful to me soon.  Especial thanks to Olga for those links, they were perfect and exactly what I've been looking for!

I do want to clear something up though and give a little background information.  I made my introductory post back last June and have been lurking because I never had anything to say or ask.  Now that I am making a move, I was looking for more specific information.

I met this woman through a personals site in July.  Yes, 9 months  ago!   I was going to travel to see her in October, but I suddenly found myself unemployed.  Ever since then I have been jumping from crappy job to crappy job, just trying to scrape by.  I was completely honest with her about my situation and she has been the most patient person I have ever met.  We talk almost every day for at least an hour, and use web cameras at least 3 times a week when we talk.  So, while we still haven't had a face to face meeting, we are very close.  And yes, I do realize nothing we've done so far makes up for meeting in person

Finally, a month ago her patience broke.  And I do not blame her at all, we have been talking far too long and we either needed to move forward or go separate ways.  So, I told her I would be in Ukraine in March.  Unfortunately, she has exams at the end of March and we couldnt schedule my visit.  So, we decided to have the visit overlap Orthodox Easter, which is apparently very important to her.

Now, I could go to Ukraine for 7-8 days and stay in nice hotels and go to nice restaurants.  She has nixed that idea and asked that we skimp on hotels and restaurants and miscellaneous spending and make the visit last as long as possible.  As I am looking at my budget, I think 14 days is about the extent of what I can pull off.  But, if I can squeeze more days from my budget, I think she would be very happy.

There is absolutely no talk about marriage plans or even future visits right now.  My budget is focused entirely on this visit and nothing further. 

Our current plans are minimal days in Kiev, a few days in her city and most of the visit will be spent in Lvov (where we found the cheapest apartments).  We'll probably only spend 3 nights in Kiev (the night I arrive and one more, and the night before I leave).  We'll spend the remaining days in her city and Lvov, definitely split to favor Lvov because the apartments there are so cheap.

My main concern at this point is how much I should budget for each day for food, traveling and miscellaneous expense.  I am thinking $50 per day as the target and having a couple hundred for unplanned expenses is reasonable, but I am not certain...

Anyways, thanks for the advice, it is highly appreciated!

[topofthekey]

The extra information helps. You've sure been talking to her for a long time and she also sure must be interested in you. It sounds like from what you say she has been very understanding.

Keeping that in mind (and if you are currently employed/have a job when you get back) I say go for it. Do your best to stick to your budget. I'm very much an anti credit card guy. I don't have one. I never plan to get one. But in this situation if you are level headed I think having one is a good idea. If you are short on funds and need a little money to complete the trip (get back home or whatever emergency) you'll have it. I hate even suggesting that, but just make sure that when you get back you have a job and can quickly eliminate the debt. I hate even suggesting taking on CC debt especially in this economy. But if you think you might have a real catch on your hands... well just make sure you have solid employment when you get back.

[GoodOlBoy]

I met this woman through a personals site in July.  Yes, 9 months  ago!  

Very Patient Lady. Most don't want to wait any more than 5 or 6 month's before a "meeting". Any longer and most FSU ladies start to think you are "not serious" (Keyboard Romeo).

Dyanaf, I don't want to be redundant or throw any water on your parade, But.....you have not mentioned anything about a BACKUP PLAN.

If you don't have one, GET ONE!

Don't misunderstand me, I am not talking about a "backup woman", no, no......just a plan in place in case things don't workout for you and your lady.

This forum and several other forum's are littered with the bodies of WM who had no backup plan and did a "crash and burn" in the FSU.

Don't be one of them...OK?

I am thinking $50 per day as the target and having a couple hundred for unplanned expenses is reasonable, but I am not certain...

If you have to go to a local dating agency, count on spending this much and more to meet and date a couple of their women.  :evil:

Good luck!


GOB

[Kuna]

Very Patient Lady. Most don't want to wait any more than 4 or 5 month's before a "meeting". Any longer and most FSU ladies start to think you are "not serious" (Keyboard Romeo).

Dyanaf, I don't want to be redundant or throw any water on your parade, But.....you have not mentioned anything about a BACKUP PLAN.

If you don't have one, GET ONE!

Don't misunderstand me, I am not talking about a "backup women", no, no...just a plan in place in case things don't workout for you and your lady.

This forum and several other forum's are littered with the bodies of WM who had no backup plan and did a "crash and burn" in the FSU.

Don't be one of them...OK?


If you have to go to a local agency, count on spending this much and more to meet and date a couple of their women.  :evil:

Good luck!


GOB

Strange advice... first of all you're telling him to get a back up plan because you assume his visit will crash and burn.  (Whilst it COULD, there are many examples now of men who confirm their expectations on their first trip...) but... the advice is strange because you almost encourage the OP to have a back-up plan (agency maybe - certainly not a back-up woman according to you)... but then you go on to warn him about the cost of agencies.

It sounds like you're being a bit of a kill-joy!

I guess in your house go you go around handing out icecream and then lecture everyone about obesity???   

Strange...   

[Kuna]

DyanaF,

You sound like you've developed some kind of online relationship with this woman - and this is good - but of course you're aware of the danger that everything could change once you too are face to face.

My advice is to be very honest with the woman about your plans and make sure you show her you have a plan.  She will understand the current economic crisis has thrown challenges to many people, and if you're honest and forthright you can actually show her how you will deal with adversity.

You haven't commented on your age or hers - but I assume you're both mature adults.  Her age, and indeed yours will impact how you both deal with situations and deal with each other.

Some of the obvious things - her hometown being in western Ukraine means she will likely to be heavily pro-Ukraine/Anti-Russian.  Whilst this may not matter much in some cases it really will have an impact on how she sees the world.

A fourteen day trip is great, and if you can spend that time finding comfort in each others company without having to go out and paint the town red you'll probably learn more about each other than if you were out partying hard.

We see members come in here to dine and romance and all comes to bothing because they've never established the reality.

Budgeting is a very individual thing but please keep one important aspect in mind...  if the first trip goes well she'll expect a follow up trip within a reasonable period of time - and trust me... you'll be breaking your neck to get back there too.

My advice is not to go into debt AT ALL if you can't afford the trip.  That's a price too high to pay especially as you'll be having followup trips if all goes well.

Yes, this is an expensive process - and in my case it's MUCH more expensive coming from Australia as the travel costs are multples of those costs from North America - but if you establish a plan, have a budget and include your lady in your planning you can do this.

Several men have done this on tight budgets...  just don't abbreviate the "getting to know you" process because of limited funds as this will almost certainly cost you much more in future.

Best of luck on the trip -- and ask as many questions here before traveling as you'll get mountains of help if you just ask.

Kuna

[GoodOlBoy]

Strange advice... first of all you're telling him to get a back up plan because you assume his visit will crash and burn.  (Whilst it COULD, there are many examples now of men who confirm their expectations on their first trip...) but... the advice is strange because you almost encourage the OP to have a back-up plan (agency maybe - certainly not a back-up woman according to you)... but then you go on to warn him about the cost of agencies.

It sounds like you're being a bit of a kill-joy!

I guess in your house go you go around handing out icecream and then lecture everyone about obesity???   

Strange...   

Strange advice??....Maybe we should have DyanaF talk to Sculpto (Moscow round 2)? 


GOB

[Kuna]

Strange??....Maybe we should have him talk to Sculpto (Moscow round 2)?


GOB

I see nothing in this poster's story that is similar to Sculpto in any way...  where do you see the parallels?

I see it as a similar situation as MaximUSA... or whatever his username was. 

I found the OP to be pretty realistic...  self aware...  and logical in his process.  Sculpto (and others of that ilk) are dreamers...  excuse creators and apologists.


Whilst it's true there have been many men fall in love with over the internet and then reject (or be rejected) on first sight - there's also many examples now of men visiting one woman and finding exactly what they were expecting.

My opinion is that this just just needs to keep it real...  and if the trip fails to reach expectation, enjoy his time in a foreign land, rather than pretending to "flick the switch into power-date mode" which he clearly accepts he can't afford at the moment.

[GoodOlBoy]

Sculpto (and others of that ilk) are dreamers...  excuse creators and apologists.

And I submit to you Kuna, for your consideration, that everyone on this forum is a "dreamer". Granted some of us a little more than others. 

I know that if I wasn't somewhat of a dreamer, I wouldn't have woken up next to my beautiful Russian wife this morning. 


GOB

[Vinnvinny]

Kuna: Surely it’s all about finding a sensible balance?

Sure, if things go Pete Tong with his lady then the OP doesn’t want to start throwing money he may not have at agencies so he can get some dates but likewise, having spent a considerable amount of time and money on his trip to find a wife, then maybe there are better things for him to do other than admiring the sport of “pavement parking”? It makes sense to me to have some backup plan as GOB suggested.

[topofthekey]

My advice is not to go into debt AT ALL if you can't afford the trip.  That's a price too high to pay especially as you'll be having followup trips if all goes well.

I agree I'm not suggesting he put the trip on his credit card (hell no). Just make sure you have a CC because you are operating with limited funds and something might come up. If ya can't pay your bills on time you shouldn't be taking trips anyways so I was assuming he didn't have CC debt (that he couldn't pay off each billing cycle). I just made that comment because I spent a little more than budgeted (which was fine) on my trip.