Now, about that apartment ...

[waterbug]

Hello vets!

Time for another sanity check (a.k.a. paranoia check).  My trip is about 3 weeks away, and it's definitely time to secure an apartment -- I will be staying in Sumy for about 6 days.  T has now mentioned twice that she could help me find an apartment; she also mentioned that she has a small real estate business, which is a good thing for her to disclose.   Being aware of the "reseller" scam, I would feel more comfortable getting my own apartment -- or am I being too cautious?  I have priced a couple of apts. advertised on the net, which seem to average around $30-60 per night.  Is that about the reasonable range (for Sumy)?  I have thought that I might (as sort of a gesture of good faith) ask how much an apartment would cost if she found me one, so I could at least get some idea if she would propose a reasonable price.  On the other hand, maybe I should just say up front that I'd be more comfortable if I got the apartment myself, and explain that I just want to avoid the conflict of interest thing -- or would that be insulting?  This seems a delicate situation, so that's why I'm seeking advice.  Incidentally, she is meeting me at the airport in Kiev -- which could possibly lead into a "reseller" scenario, if a shopping spree is involved (but for me that would be a huge red flashing alarm bell and I would most likely terminate things right there, if it were obvious enough, and move on to Plan B).

As you can see, my fevered brain is working this one overtime ... any positive advice is appreciated.  I definitely intend to keep a positive attitude and give her the benefit of the doubt until some serious alarm is tripped, which of course won't happen until I'm there -- but I need to make a decision on my apartment strategy now, of course.

Thanks!
Steve

[TwoBitBandit]

Here's what I'd do in this situation, take it or leave it.

I'd avoid sending any money to someone I haven't met.  Even if she's sincere, it just has the potential to put a strain on your relationship with her if something doesn't go right.

I'd arrange an apartment independently.  I'd just spin this to her as "I don't want to burden you with having to find a flat for me."  It's possible that it will offend her.  I'd do it anyways and try to put the best possible spin on it. 

Having her do the airport/train transfers is less risky because you don't have to send her any money in advance.  Don't let them stick you with some absurd price for them.  It's been awhile since I've been in Kiev, but a transfer from Borispol to the train station or the center of the city shouldn't set you back more than $60, and it should probably be more like $30.  If they hit you up for $100 it's a bad sign.  It's probably even less now with the bad economy and the fall in the Ukranian currency.

Once you get outside of the big cities and into places like Sumy, taxis aren't that expensive.  Rides around town are usually like $10 or less when negotiated in Russian/Ukranian.  Keep your mouth shut until she negotiates any taxi fares because the price goes up 2x as soon as the driver figures out there is a foreigner involved.

Be careful who you deal with for flat rentals, there's plenty of scams going on that have nothing to do with women.  I'd get a recommendation on who to deal with from someone reputable.  If you don't have any contacts, I'd start with a guy named Jack Bragg at FirstDream.  He spends a lot of time on the ground there and he'll probably know someone reputable.  Some people don't like Jack, but I've never personally had a problem with him and everyone he's recommended to me has held up their side of the bargain.

I've never been to Sumy, but I've been to cities of similar size.. and I'd say $30-$60/night is a good price if it's near the center.  Make sure it's either near where she lives or near the center.

It is good you have a plan B, don't be afraid to pull it out if you see red flags.

[Shadow]

I'd avoid sending any money to someone I haven't met. 

And send money to someone else you never met instead.

You already have a plan B, so drop the paranoia. As long as you get the keys, who cares.
Ask her what price andif it seems normal get the address and google it. If it is a regular offered apartment you will be able to find the price.

[waterbug]

I'd avoid sending any money to someone I haven't met.  Even if she's sincere, it just has the potential to put a strain on your relationship with her if something doesn't go right.

Of course.  That is the 1st commandment, and I strictly observe that one.  I was not planning to send her any money, just pay for it when I got there.

I'd arrange an apartment independently.  I'd just spin this to her as "I don't want to burden you with having to find a flat for me."  It's possible that it will offend her.  I'd do it anyways and try to put the best possible spin on it. 

I think I will ask her how much the one she'd recommend costs ... that way I get more information. 

Having her do the airport/train transfers is less risky because you don't have to send her any money in advance.  Don't let them stick you with some absurd price for them.

I wasn't planning on asking her to do that.  Earlier I asked about getting from the airport to the train station, and the Marshtrushka is a good option for that.  Plus it will be another litmus test -- if she's a gold-digger, she will probably stick up her nose at it.  I am planning on seeing if I can purchase the train tickets on-line at poezda.net, if that's possible.

Once you get outside of the big cities and into places like Sumy, taxis aren't that expensive.  Rides around town are usually like $10 or less when negotiated in Russian/Ukranian.  Keep your mouth shut until she negotiates any taxi fares because the price goes up 2x as soon as the driver figures out there is a foreigner involved.

Yes, I would let her negotiate, and I've taken enough taxi rides there to know what the fares should be, even if I negotiate it myself (my Russian is good enough to do that, and I've certainly turned away a taxi from time to time who didn't agree to my quoted price).

I've never been to Sumy, but I've been to cities of similar size.. and I'd say $30-$60/night is a good price if it's near the center.  Make sure it's either near where she lives or near the center.

Right.  Thanks for your input!

Steve

[waterbug]

And send money to someone else you never met instead.

Yes, I think it's called "e-commerce" ... do it all the time. 

You already have a plan B, so drop the paranoia. As long as you get the keys, who cares.
Ask her what price and if it seems normal get the address and google it. If it is a regular offered apartment you will be able to find the price.

That might be a reasonable thing to do.

Thanks!
Steve

[ECOCKS]

The only flag I had reading your post was the $30-60/night in Sumy.  This month those are more like Kyiv prices.  I would have expected Sumy to be about 30% less - say $20-45.  $45 should be pretty nice there.

[Diplomacy]

Well, there is a big difference from an American Etail site and who knows what in the Ukraine.  One great trick, is there is something wrong with the apartment.  Reality is someone gave them more money for it.

You are not dealing with American culture.  You got to start the trust somewhere.  Do you even know where she lives in the city?  You are talking a few hundred bucks, and that is getting off cheap.  You can always tell her, that you want to pay, when you see it. 

Usually $100 deposit will hold it. 

For me it is an instinct call, but it is your personality that counts.  I would rather be out a few hundred bucks that the most.  Rather than $20,000 down and a bad situation in my hands here.

It does have a risk of losing trust, but I do not know the woman.   

[waterbug]

The only flag I had reading your post was the $30-60/night in Sumy.  This month those are more like Kyiv prices.  I would have expected Sumy to be about 30% less - say $20-45.  $45 should be pretty nice there.

Thanks for that data point, ecocks.  I see you live in FSU, and I think I recall in another post you said you live in Ukraine, so this makes you a particularly useful source of info for me!

I found one apartment in Sumy that is brokered by a certain Englishman, which was listed at $65/day but he would give it to me for $55/day, and I asked my lady if that one was anywhere near her apartment.  She replied that it was far away, about a 10-15 minute bus ride, and she could find me one closer if I wanted.  I said okay, I'd like to be closer, see what you can find.  She found a couple for $50/day -- the best one has nice furnishings, TV, computer w/internet, gas stove and a fridge.  That sounds reasonable to me -- does it sound about right to you?  It's on the high side of your suggested range, but sounds pretty decent.

Also, I asked her to find out the Kiev-Sumy train schedule and to see if we will be able to get a first-class compartment if I buy the tickets when I arrive there.  She came back with the schedule, 3 possible trains, 2 of them overnight, which is fine (it's about a 5.5 - 6 hour ride), but she says there aren't any 1st class compartments available on any of them.  That sounds very strange to me -- I've always been able to get a first-class compartment (i.e., 2 people) every time I've ridden a train in Ukraine, and often I've purchased the ticket on the same day.  Is this something new, or is something funny going on here?

Thanks for any input on this!

Cheers,
Steve

[Shadow]

If the date of your arrival is near any holiday in Ukraine, people living in Kiev might take the chance to visit home, which could explain.
But if the no first class is accompanied by a suggestion flying may be an alternative.... take the day train.

[ScottinCrimea]

Not so unusual to not have 1st class available. My understanding is that they have reduced the number of cars per train to save on fuel.  On my wife's last trip there, she also had difficulty finding good accommodations even though there was no holiday or other special reason for it.

[waterbug]

Not so unusual to not have 1st class available. My understanding is that they have reduced the number of cars per train to save on fuel.  On my wife's last trip there, she also had difficulty finding good accommodations even though there was no holiday or other special reason for it.

Thanks, Scott, that definitely makes sense.  As my lady suggested, if I want privacy for us I can just buy 4 tickets .  Not a problem, since the tickets are only $10 each (if only the U.S. had such reasonable and comfortable long-distance public transport).

Also, although I am new to the forum and don't really know you, I had been following your recent thread -- I didn't want to say anything because I didn't know you and sympathy is more meaningful from people you know, but since you have been nice enough to offer me advice on my question (which itself shows a lot of character, considering how full your hands are!), I should say now that you have my sincerest sympathy.  I have been searching and having "interesting experiences" in this context for long enough to know that this quest will put your judgment and your character to the ultimate test, and my judgment has not always been as good as I had hoped.  But I think it is improving, and I'm still optimistic.  Of course, I haven't experienced anything close to what you have, so I can only offer my sympathy and hope that you can keep a positive outlook as you sort it all out.  Hang in there.

Steve

[JR]

It doesn't hurt to have her check around for you. I would say there are two ways to look at sending her money to get an apartment for you. One, she is a local so may be able to get a better price than a foreigner. Two, she may be making a profit off of your accomadations. Is she offering to put you in direct contact with the apartment's renter or is she insisting on acting as the go-between. If she is putting you in direct contact then she may also be getting a kickback....hmmm, I seem to be contradicting myself here! I think I'd keep searching and make my own arrangements.

[BCKev]

She came back with the schedule, 3 possible trains, 2 of them overnight, which is fine (it's about a 5.5 - 6 hour ride), but she says there aren't any 1st class compartments available on any of them.  That sounds very strange to me -- I've always been able to get a first-class compartment (i.e., 2 people) every time I've ridden a train in Ukraine, and often I've purchased the ticket on the same day.  Is this something new, or is something funny going on here?

I found four Kiev-Sumy trains, only one (#116) had first class compartments. It is possible they're sold out.

My wife insists on getting our train tickets as soon as possible to ensure we get what we want.

http://www.uz.gov.ua/index.php?m=services.transppl.schedulkiev&f=ScheduleOra.Place&lng=uk

[bgreed]

My wife is from Sumy either she or I could answer any of your questions.

[Sculpto]

two years ago when I was in Kherson I paid $35 a night for the apartment.  The same apartment was on the web for $55 a night.  My friend in Odessa called her friend in Kherson who arranged the stay.  The apartment owner could care less, he got the same $ either way.. the only one that lost out was the middlemen on the website...

point is.. if I am not wrong.. the economies of Sumy and Kherson are pretty similiar.. I do not think Sumy is very high on the list of destinations for foreign men.. should be a "buyers market"

[Muddy]

Sumy is a very boring city
I traveled there one time and 2-3 years ago and I dont think I will again

[ScottinCrimea]

Sumy is a very boring city
I traveled there one time and 2-3 years ago and I dont think I will again

No city is boring, only people are boring.