Author Topic: Would you or wouldn't you? (Read 13062 times)

KenC · « **Reply #25 on:** March 17, 2009, 08:57:05 AM »

All sounds logical, Faux, except: "I would say there is zero percent chance she'll dump me after receiving the ring but, I'm sure I wouldn't be the first to think that" is a little troubling. This seems like you are roping her in with the ring. By involving the woman in the decision of which ring to buy, is shifting the pressure as I see it. If you make the decision, there is the possibility of not getting the right style she prefers. Whereas if she is helping pick it out, she has the pressure of appearing too greedy if she picks something too expensive. She may select something more modest just not to look greedy. You can always "window shop" with her to define the cut and style she prefers, purchase it and surprise her.
KenC

groovlstk · « **Reply #26 on:** March 17, 2009, 09:51:35 AM »

A long time ago, there were a few guys in the search phase who were discussing engagement rings, and one scholar claimed he was going to buy a ring w/a CZ stone since his fiancee wouldn't know the difference. If things worked out, our smug scholar claimed he would replace the CZ stone with a diamond. I remember JB pointed out how shallow and crass this was and then went on to say that if you're hoping to take advantage of her lack of knowledge and do this on the cheap, your fiancee will ultimately realize you're a cheap SOB after she's arrived and made female friends.

Faux Pas · « **Reply #27 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:34:19 AM »

Quote from: KenC on March 17, 2009, 08:57:05 AM

All sounds logical, Faux, except: "I would say there is zero percent chance she'll dump me after receiving the ring but, I'm sure I wouldn't be the first to think that" is a little troubling. This seems like you are roping her in with the ring. By involving the woman in the decision of which ring to buy, is shifting the pressure as I see it. If you make the decision, there is the possibility of not getting the right style she prefers. Whereas if she is helping pick it out, she has the pressure of appearing too greedy if she picks something too expensive. She may select something more modest just not to look greedy. You can always "window shop" with her to define the cut and style she prefers, purchase it and surprise her.
KenC

I can see where you or anyone might come to that conclusion KenC but, it is actually quite the opposite. The ring to me and her (my observation only) is unimportant in the bigger scheme of things. So unimportant that it hasn't been discussed. Perhaps it should have been discussed earlier, I can't say. The only thing we did discuss on this subject was the customs of rings.

You make a good point about the window shopping and that can certainly be another option. If she doesn't want to choose, I have no problem doing it. My position isn't out of laziness or flippant about the significance of the ring. I didn't need it when I proposed so it hasn't been a priority to us up to this point.

In my earlier post I was only attempting to make the point "don't buy something (ring or not) that you cannot afford". Once the gift is given, for all practical purposes is gone.

ECOCKS · « **Reply #28 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:44:31 AM »

Quote from: groovlstk on March 17, 2009, 09:51:35 AM

A long time ago, there were a few guys in the search phase who were discussing engagement rings, and one scholar claimed he was going to buy a ring w/a CZ stone since his fiancee wouldn't know the difference. If things worked out, our smug scholar claimed he would replace the CZ stone with a diamond. I remember JB pointed out how shallow and crass this was and then went on to say that if you're hoping to take advantage of her lack of knowledge and do this on the cheap, your fiancee will ultimately realize you're a cheap SOB after she's arrived and made female friends.

I suspect if he tried this that it would be a learning experience as to how much jewelry knowledge exists in the FSU. That's just skipping over the whole shallow and crass component.

Not know the difference??!??!!??

Misha · « **Reply #29 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:55:56 AM »

Quote from: Faux Pas on March 17, 2009, 10:34:19 AM

In my earlier post I was only attempting to make the point "don't buy something (ring or not) that you cannot afford". Once the gift is given, for all practical purposes is gone.

I agree, buying engagement rings would be somewhat equivalent to going to the casino IMHO: don't put down what you can't afford to lose and don't expect a guarantee that you will get anything back in return.

KenC · « **Reply #30 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:29:13 AM »

Quote from: Misha on March 17, 2009, 10:55:56 AM

I agree, buying engagement rings would be somewhat equivalent to going to the casino IMHO: don't put down what you can't afford to lose and don't expect a guarantee that you will get anything back in return.

Very good analogy Misha. This whole idea is a crap shoot.
KenC

Turboguy · « **Reply #31 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:06:47 PM »

Quote from: KenC on March 17, 2009, 07:23:32 AM

Misha,

Personally, I think it is the man's responsibility to select and buy the ring unbeknown to his fiancee.

KenC

In my case I am glad we talked about it in advance. Yes, I could have bought the ring without her knowing but I think she was far happier with input about what she wants. She is the one who will be wearing it and to me the important thing is that she is happy with it and of course that I can afford it.

The ring she wanted was about 1/4th the cost of what I would have bought without asking her but I found a little bigger one just like it with bigger diamonds still at much less than I would have spent. I can tell you without a doubt that had I bought what I would have she would not have liked the ring at all. To me it is about making her happy at a price we can live with.

Good to see you posting again Ken, RWD is a much better place when you are here.

KenC · « **Reply #32 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:43:24 PM »

Turbo,
That is a good middle ground. The way I see it, if you let her decide 100% you may be under buying and if you make the decision yourself, you may be over buying. Glad to see you upped the ring, but please tell me you didn't buy it at Walmart!!
KenC

Doll · « **Reply #33 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:40:52 PM »

Quote

The discussion for me and my wife was to be sure she understood this was not "just jewelry" for her jewelry house I had bought her. It was to be sure that she understood it had a special meaning beyond being a trinket.

They all know what engagement ring is- I mean the difference between this and just jewelry.

Doll · « **Reply #34 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:50:18 PM »

Quote

I suspect if he tried this that it would be a learning experience as to how much jewelry knowledge exists in the FSU. That's just skipping over the whole shallow and crass component.

Not know the difference??!??!!??

I've been on RW forums for 7 years so I know that all of them know the traditions and the difference between cheap stuff and really nice. They all do. Will they say something to you? Probably no, but they do make judgments , believe me. Don't underestimate RW (UW).

Doll · « **Reply #35 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:03:04 PM »

So the answer to the man with doubts is- do not give a ring. Seriously!

ECOCKS · « **Reply #36 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:22:36 PM »

Quote from: Doll on March 17, 2009, 01:40:52 PM

They all know what engagement ring is- I mean the difference between this and just jewelry.

Yes, she knew the tradition, but I wanted it explained just so I knew she "knew" what it meant. She also wanted to be sure I understood her thoughts so we discussed that I didn't expect her to wear it every day due to her concerns about losing it or having it stolen. She showed her family and wore it only on the "occasions" described.

Chicagoguy · « **Reply #37 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:08:12 PM »

I have seen many women in U.S. with just a wedding band. Are they leaving the engagement ring at home or is this not as mandatory as we are talking about ?

I will wait until my fiance is here before we discuss the engagement ring.

I laughed at the CZ switch but after some of the sad stories here I would not preach to another.

Ravens9273 · « **Reply #38 on:** March 17, 2009, 05:23:18 PM »

I agree with what KenC said.

However I also found the CZ story to be humorous.
I do not think it went much further then that. Most Men should know that most ladies carry a Loop in their purses. The moment you have your back turned they are checking out the diamond. If they do not have a loop they are visiting the local jeweler first chance they get.

You will not get away with a CZ.

facetrock · « **Reply #39 on:** March 17, 2009, 05:31:33 PM »

I agree with KenC and Groov. Go buy the ring. You dont have to buy the farm. You can always trade up later. I lost one in Ukraine already but I would still do it again. In fact I aready bought a diamond this summer. Just dont know who I will give it to

Doll · « **Reply #40 on:** March 17, 2009, 05:52:09 PM »

Quote from: Chicagoguy on March 17, 2009, 03:08:12 PM

I have seen many women in U.S. with just a wedding band. Are they leaving the engagement ring at home or is this not as mandatory as we are talking about ?

Since there is no such a set tradition in the FSU about engagement rings both this one and the wedding one are often not a "set"- just separate ring with different design.So they wear them as separate items (me too).

Vaughn · « **Reply #41 on:** March 17, 2009, 06:23:35 PM »

Quote from: Doll on March 17, 2009, 02:03:04 PM

So the answer to the man with doubts is- do not give a ring. Seriously!

Many many times I've taken issue with Doll's posts, but this shred of advice is spot on. In fact, I
would take it a step further: Don't even get engaged. Man, it's disheartening when I read how a
man wants nothing more than to land a FSU lady as his partner in life - and then suddenly, in creeps
the doubt - usually in the form of something that be quantified in terms of potential loss, in this case,
an engagement ring...

I dunno, maybe we were just different. Got engaged, second visit, and ran out excitedly to pick out
a ring together. Enjoyed our moment without the second guessing.

ECOCKS · « **Reply #42 on:** March 17, 2009, 08:21:20 PM »

Everyone is probably a bit over-sensitive after Scott's news from the weekend. It should be no surprise that some will have their confidence a bit shaken.

Faux Pas · « **Reply #43 on:** March 18, 2009, 07:26:31 AM »

Quote from: facetrock on March 17, 2009, 05:31:33 PM

I agree with KenC and Groov. Go buy the ring. You dont have to buy the farm. You can always trade up later. I lost one in Ukraine already but I would still do it again. In fact I aready bought a diamond this summer. Just dont know who I will give it to

So you are looking for a lady to fit the ring you bought?

Diplomacy · « **Reply #44 on:** March 18, 2009, 10:02:34 AM »

Well he said he bought the diamond, nothing about a ring. So he may have bought the diamond, and then is going to find the right girl and have a setting made.

It is actually good to buy a stone if you like it, and it is a great deal. Settings are not the real cost of a ring. The stone is, and they do sell stones all the time.

Just something to think about.

Vaughn and Doll

I agree. Buying the ring with the anticipation of lost money, is really just as bad of a theory. You need to be confident in her and your relationship. That this person is somebody you could not imagine living without. Until that is there, the ring is a stall tactic or a mistake.

If you really need to tell yourself, it is money I can afford to lose and have thought that much about it. Some of it is practical, but really you are not ready to get engaged. The real thoughts should be closer to, is she going to make me a better person? Am I going to make her a better person, simply because we are together? Can accomplish great things together? Are we both better off, for having the other in their lives?

No shots on the posters, just trying to give a perspective.

I am very selective on the person who will be helping raise our children. A cost of the ring, if I was worried about losing money I spent on the ring. I would not even be close, to trusting her with our children.

ScottinCrimea · « **Reply #45 on:** March 18, 2009, 10:59:27 AM »

Quote from: ECOCKS on March 17, 2009, 08:21:20 PM

Everyone is probably a bit over-sensitive after Scott's news from the weekend. It should be no surprise that some will have their confidence a bit shaken.

Once I committed to my wife, I was 100% in. There was no thought of what I invested and what I would stand to lose property wise. To me the relationship was far more important than any "thing". I was prepared to lose everything I had invested, so the issue of property isn't such a big deal to me now that things have gone sour. Sure it would be nice to have some of it back, but it was the price I paid. Material things can easily be replaced.

My "return" was many wonderful times and happy memories, and one can't place a value on those.

If you are looking at your relationship in terms of risk prevention, damage control, a financial arrangement or any other such idea where your material possessions have a higher priority than the woman you want to share your life with, then you have no business getting married.

ECOCKS · « **Reply #46 on:** March 18, 2009, 05:02:16 PM »

Certainly, but after reading through some of these TR's and other comments it is no surprise to me hearing the stories about substituting CZ's, delaying on a ring when you would normally give one, buying a smaller one than "normal", etc. Personally, as FP stated once I buy a gift and give it, it belongs to the other person, not me. If the ring is what I felt appropriate to give then that is what I would give, in fact, I did.

Daveman · « **Reply #47 on:** March 18, 2009, 08:32:52 PM »

Quote from: ECOCKS on March 18, 2009, 05:02:16 PM

Certainly, but after reading through some of these TR's and other comments it is no surprise to me hearing the stories about substituting CZ's, delaying on a ring when you would normally give one, buying a smaller one than "normal", etc. Personally, as FP stated once I buy a gift and give it, it belongs to the other person, not me. If the ring is what I felt appropriate to give then that is what I would give, in fact, I did.

It's no surprise to me, not because of the stories, but because people tend to have some really wacked out thought processes when deep down inside they are truly unsure. Bizarre theories of "testing", strange behaviors to "bring her in line"... all just goofy crap when the bottom line is that little voice is blaring the alarm PULL UP <beep beep> PULL UP <beep beep> PULL UP

It has been seen a bazillion times here. I'm sure I've been guilty of some strange thinking as well in all of this.

I've always liked BC's line "In for a penny - in for a pound". If your relationship hasn't developed to the point where you're ready to go completely in for the pound, all in, you're not ready to be engaged, and certainly not ready for marriage.

Maxx2 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 18, 2009, 08:34:22 PM »

Quote from: Ravens9273 on March 16, 2009, 02:44:23 PM

What my friend want to know was it a wise idea to present a lady from the FSU with such an expensive gift?

My thoughts instantly went to the many horror stories I seen of failed relationships and wondered myself is such a gift a wise move or should this gift wait until after marriage or once the lady arrives in her new home?

With so many bad stories, with relationships that did not lead to marriage is it worth the lose of such a gift since odds are you will never see it again?

One could present a ring made from faux "gold" alloy with cubic zirconium "diamonds". Then after it looks like it will work out then subsitute the real thing when she isn't looking.... joking (I want to rile Doll)

I got my Russian ex-wife a diamond ring for our engagement. I got it wholesale because I am connected to the jewelry manufacturing industry. So about half price from retail or around $2,250. She stopped wearing it once she got here. Kept it in a small bag with some makeup pads and tanning tokens in her bathroom. So when she was out one night staying all night at a party at her girlfriend's house I took the ring. I had filed the divorce a few days before. So I sold it back to the jewelry manufacture client I had bought it from for $1,750. I took the money and added it to my divorce attorney's retainer. When she later squalked about this my lawyer told her through her attorney that I had enter the marriage in good faith but she hadn't. No ring for her.

Maxx

Doll · « **Reply #49 on:** March 19, 2009, 02:19:29 AM »

Quote

I got my Russian ex-wife a diamond ring for our engagement. I got it wholesale because I am connected to the jewelry manufacturing industry. So about half price from retail or around $2,250.

The one I got from my husband-to-be was (and is) less than $400.00
( we bought it in Moscow)- a small nice ring that I sometimes wear and which is a lot of memories for me.
BTW if I didn't get one it would make no difference- I would marry him anyway

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Author Topic: Would you or wouldn't you? (Read 13062 times)

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