Permission from Ex- to bring child to the US

[rogerwind]

I am in Ukraine now, and I want to file a for a Fiancee Visa for my fiancee when I return to the US.

She has a 10-year-old child, and we want to bring the child to the US.
However, my fiancee says her ex-husband is unlikely to give permission for the child to live in the US (permission from the "staying behind parent" is a visa requirement). He never sees the child, and doesn't care about her.

Does anyone have experience in dealing with this problem?

Our ideas so far are:

1. Ask the ex-husband first . . . maybe he'll say yes.
2. If he says no, then offer him a small amount of money.
3. If he still says no, then threaten to take him to court and seek sole custody.

He has only made miniscule support payments for the child, and has not met his legal obligation. Perhaps suggesting that we will take him to court will convince him to settle.

I and my fiancee know little about the Ukrainian legal system, and the one lawyer she talked to seemed poorly informed.

Any suggestions are welcomed . . . thanks in advance.

[Leslie]

Hi,

A member here Jet had the same situation as you and resloved it despite the father's sometimes weird opposition.  I suggest you send him a PM and ask for advice.

I am from UK so I won't offer any specific advice.  There are veterens here who know far more about the US system than I do.  Just stay within the law.

 

[Jet]

Our experience was in Russia so I can't comment at all on Ukrainian courts, except to say that you need a "family law" advocate and not an immigration attorney if you choose to go that route. I would say that as long as your fiancee has no overt fears of physical violence from her Ex then your 3 steps are in correct order, and you're thinking along the right lines.

Do keep in mind that you'll need to get the ball rolling in short order, because it may well be a waiting game. It took us nearly a year to get my wife's Ex to finally agree. In our case, money was not an issue so a bribe would not have swayed him at all. His most confounding argument was that if the little guy were to grow up in the states his life would be too easy, and that would make him "soft". Without his full dose of instability, adversity, and duress, he could not possibly grow up to be a strong Russian man.

[Son of Clyde]

Her ex signed over the child provided the child will visit once a year and call once a week. it seems reasonable until i found out the father said if the child moved to the US he would offer absolutely NO financial support. Nice guy.  

[andrewfi]

Fair do's Clyde!

Like, how is he going to reasonably provide any kind of support when his income is likely a small fraction of yours. What difference is it going to make to you? It would make a deal of difference to him! And, of course, you got what you wanted!

Life is a negotiation, life is not always equal and sure as hell is not fair!

That he wants the boy to visit and to speak with him weekly suggests, whatever you might think, or have been told, that he does have an attachment to the lad.

[Son of Clyde]

Andrew, if he can afford to buy his son a $500.00 puppy, $95.00 shoes and a $700.00 pc I think he is doing ok financially.

[Son of Clyde]

The boy had been complaining since day one that his pc back in Ukraine was much faster than mine. I have a top of the line Dell so I can only imagine the one back in Ukraine. BTW he has a new pc now and is very happy he does not need my ancient 2002 Dell Dimension.

[andrewfi]

But can he afford to do that every month? In order to make a difference to you, he is going to have to send you, every month, an amount in the hundreds of dollars. His income is certainly nowhere near yours. At least he will be able to afford to give him a good time when he goes to Ukraine to see his old dad!

 

 

[bbernard]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

Andrew, if he can afford to buy his son a $500.00 puppy, $95.00 shoes and a $700.00 pc I think he is doing ok financially.

Clyde,

Your step son is 14. If he had a relationship with his father then he knows who dad is. Unfortunately, the child isn't going to care whether his dad is reimbursing you or not!! That's the way it is... You can't cry over spilled milk. You obviously loved your wife enough to accept the terms that you agreed upon with your step sons father at the time when she was still in Ukraine. Or maybe I missed something, were you under the impression that he would be paying support? Either way, I understand well and good that you can't just buy your step son everything he wants. Thats just unpractical! But I am just concerned that you may send the wrong message to your wife. Resentment has a way of creeping up on both sides in situations like this. Thread carefully my friend! How does your wife feel about not receiving support?

bbernard

[al-c]

First of all, this is my first post, and I am really glad to have found this place.

Question:  Does this consent issue only apply in Ukraine, or does Russia have the same problem?

My situation is that I am getting along super well with a wonderful lady from St. Petersburg named Olga.  I am going there next year and have every reason to believe that the visa will be the next step. 

I know about many of the pitfalls.  I was there twice already and had a visa application with another lady blow up in my face (her doing) 3 days before her interview in Moscow last year.

Olga has a 13 year old son who I am more than happy to welcome into my house and raise as my own son.  His father abaondoned him 6 years ago, never sees him, and pays zero support, and frankly, I am not interested in the few rubles he could pay out of the $100.00 or so a week he makes in Russia.  I can support Alex (Olga's son) without his help.

Are we going to have to get consent from this clown, who has not seen his son in 6 years, to get Alex here?  Olga is a tough, no-nonsense lady who will bring a parental termination proceeding there if necessary.  I just need to know if we should be planning on it.

 

[POConnor]

I brought a woman and child to USA from Kiev, Ukraine and we needed the custody agreement that the Embassy requires. What my fiancee (wife now) did was tell her ex-husband that she was going to USA with or without her daughter. If daughter stayed in Ukraine, he would be responsable to raise her and he did not want that so they agreed that the daughter would come to USA and go back to Ukraine once a year to visit.  I brought them to USA in Feb 04 and we went back in Dec. 04 and going Dec. 05.

The custody agreement is sometimes a must have in USA, such as getting child into school. Where I live it is a requirement to have custody agreement to enter child in school. I gave my wife money for a laywer to handle this and it took about as long as getting the K1 & K2 visa. Also be prepared to pay out some money to get this expedited. Her agreement was complete except for the court signing off and it would take serveral months for signoff, but some money got it signed in two weeks. About a week to two before her interview at the embassy. You need this translated too.

Any questions let me know.

[catzenmouse]

[user=527]al-c[/user] wrote:

First of all, this is my first post, and I am really glad to have found this place.

Question:  Does this consent issue only apply in Ukraine, or does Russia have the same problem?

My situation is that I am getting along super well with a wonderful lady from St. Petersburg named Olga.  I am going there next year and have every reason to believe that the visa will be the next step. 

I know about many of the pitfalls.  I was there twice already and had a visa application with another lady blow up in my face (her doing) 3 days before her interview in Moscow last year.

Olga has a 13 year old son who I am more than happy to welcome into my house and raise as my own son.  His father abaondoned him 6 years ago, never sees him, and pays zero support, and frankly, I am not interested in the few rubles he could pay out of the $100.00 or so a week he makes in Russia.  I can support Alex (Olga's son) without his help.

Are we going to have to get consent from this clown, who has not seen his son in 6 years, to get Alex here?  Olga is a tough, no-nonsense lady who will bring a parental termination proceeding there if necessary.  I just need to know if we should be planning on it.

 

Welcome al-c!

 This is also necessary in Russia. When Elena came we had to get permission from the father (who also was a no-show in every respect of Sergei's life) for him to come to the states. It can be very difficult legally to get custody of the child turned over to the mother if the father fights it but as in any legal case it will depend on the lawyer and the judge in the end.

 Sergei's father at first fought the court case and then without warning or reason signed the paperwork. If your lady knows where he is then I would first suggest she ask him for the permission (she does not have to say why she needs it or can say she's got a job outside of the country, etc.) and see how it goes. Good luck!

Ken

[jb]

al-c

It's my understanding that the notorized letter granting the mother the  right to take a minor child out of the country is a requirement of the  US State Department, it would apply regardless of the country the  prospective travelers are from.

I have also heard that this requirement is haphazardly enforced by some  embassies and more often than not, no one mentions it at the visa  interview.  If the child is listed on the mother's passport there  will be no questions asked at the airport at the time of departure as  long as the K-2 visa is affixed to the mom's documents. 

Since the little girl is only 10, she likely doesn't have an  International passport of her own yet, and I believe it's not common  for Russian children to get papers of any kind  until they are at  least 14 y.o.'s, and as long as they travel in company with the  guardian parent there should be no problems.  There will be  problems in the future as the kid grows up if she wishes to travel back  to Russia because she will need to have both the internal and  international passports after she reaches a certain age in order to re-enter  Russia.  It might be benificial to make inquiries about getting  the kid some stand alone documents before the visa interview if you  think the little girl might want, or need, to travel later.    Remember that the K-2 visa only allows her a single entry into the USA,  she can't go and return without proper travel papers, nor can she visit  any other countries without a visa to and from that country.  That  also applies to your fiancee/wife as well.  Since we are  discussing the minor 10 y.o. child, she will be borderline eligible for  US citizenship at about the time she hits 14, once that happens you  will simply apply for the US Passport and then all will be well.

Assuming the K-1/K-2 goes well and you decide to marry, you will   have to file the petions to adjust the status of your new immigrant  family.  Once you've done that, filed the I-485, I-131, etc.,  there are temporary documents you will receive that will allow travel  to and from the USA for them. 

I hope that answers some of your questions, if not we can hash it out in greater detail as you wish.

[catzenmouse]

I have also heard that this requirement is haphazardly enforced by some embassies and more often than not, no one mentions it at the visa interview.  If the child is listed on the mother's passport there will be no questions asked at the airport at the time of departure as long as the K-2 visa is affixed to the mom's documents. 

Haphazard is a good word for this. Elena had it but was never asked for it. We know another couple who were asked for it at the K1 interview and did not have one. They were given an extention on the application to get the document and are now fighting it out with the father in Russian court. Not a good situation at all from the last I heard from them.

Ken

[BC]

At the time (3 years ago) our (then) 9yr old daughter was able to get a RU international passport so I think younger kids having their own passport is possible and best.

We had a court order (missing parent) assigning all parental rights to the mother and had the apostil stamp applied making it a valid document in most countries.

Some may have 'squeaked' by without the consent document in the past, but don't suggest doing it this way especially if there is the possibility that your job may take you overseas (local officials will likely require this document) or if the remaining parent could cause a legal fuss during a subsequent trip back to RU. 

[jb]

All good points, BC.

I would never advocate trying to "squeak" by under the radar with  immigration documents as there is just too much room for things to go  amuck, better to go that extra mile and make sure your new family is  street legal in every way.

I didn't intend to try to dismiss fears in any way, just pointing out  that al-c's lady may or may not be asked to produce the document.   However, I do agree with you, it's a good thing to cross all the "t's"  and dot all the "i's", because you never know what the future will  bring.

[al-c]

Thank you all for your advice.  I will speak with Olga about this so we can come up with a plan to handle it.  It seems that we should start on this as soon as we can, even before we start the K-1.  I don't want to play Russian Roulette (no pun intended) with getting in under the radar or using Alex as bait to paint the guy into a corner or otherwise jeopardize the interests of Olga or Alex.

 

[POConnor]

Everybody for Ukraine,

We were asked for the custody agreement at the Embassy in Kiev, Ukraine in Feb. 04. which is different from a "notarized" letter. The last time I looked at the Embassy site for Kiev a "notarized" letter would NOT do. Either the father shows up or you have the custody agreement. Again you may well need the custody agreement for other things in the USA. My wife started the process for the agreement in August 04 and with some "grease" received it from the court about 2 weeks before her interview on 23 Feb. 04

My step-daughter had an internal "travel" document at age 12 that was used for her K-2 VISA while my wife and the external passport for her K-1 VISA.

[bbernard]

Everybody for Ukraine,

We were asked for the custody agreement at the Embassy in Kiev, Ukraine in Feb. 04. which is different from a "notarized" letter. The last time I looked at the Embassy site for Kiev a "notarized" letter would NOT do. Either the father shows up or you have the custody agreement. Again you may well need the custody agreement for other things in the USA. My wife started the process for the agreement in August 04 and with some "grease" received it from the court about 2 weeks before her interview on 23 Feb. 04

My step-daughter had an internal "travel" document at age 12 that was used for her K-2 VISA while my wife and the external passport for her K-1 VISA.

I have been through that website three times and did not see any information in regards to this! I find that getting information in regards to children in this process tends to be the most difficult to obtain. She really doesn't believe we will have a problem from the father but would like to see a lawyer just in case..

[POConnor]

bbernard,

It is in the exe file named Packet3 and you need to unzip it. I tried to attach it here but due to formatting I may something. you can PM if you like.

[bbernard]

bbernard,

It is in the exe file named Packet3 and you need to unzip it. I tried to attach it here but due to formatting I may something. you can PM if you like.

POConner

Thanks, I downloaded the both apckets 3 & 4. Wow what a help that will be to prepare well before we get to that point. Anyway, the following copied from the KEV-1 and should help anyone needing this information while reading here:

· TO OBTAIN A VISA FOR A CHILD UNDER 16 ONE OF THESE IS REQUIRED:

Court decree granting sole custody to the K parent; OR

Notarized consent letter from the left-behind parent permitting the permanent residency of the child in the US WITH a photocopy of left-behind parent's passport ID page (to confirm identity and signature of the person granting permission); OR

Death certificate, if the other parent is deceased; OR

The left-behind parent may appear in person to sign the consent statement.

Personal appearance of the non-immigrating parent remains, however, an option for those families who wish to choose it. 

If the left-behind parent is not in Ukraine, s/he should have his consent letter notarized at the nearest Ukrainian or U.S. Embassy/consulate in the country where s/he is located, and then submit that notarized statement with photo-copy of his/her passport ID page.   The parent should send the documents to the visa applicant. 

If the immigrating parent cannot locate the other parent (e.g., if they have been estranged for many years), then s/he should obtain a Ukrainian court decree establishing that s/he has custody/control of the child or a court decree pronouncing the other parent missing.

Thanks again,

bbernard

[jb]

Or:
Notarized consent letter from the left-behind parent permitting the permanent residency of the child in the US WITH  a photocopy of left-behind parent's passport ID page (to confirm  identity and signature of the person granting permission); OR;

[size="3"]  I was pretty sure a notarized consent letter would do the trick.[/size]
[/font]

[Bruno]

Death certificate, if the other parent is deceased

This is certainly the fastest and cheaper way  ... for pay someone to make a murder, the price can be negociate without problem around 100$ :cool:

:D:D

 

[Vaughn]

Ken wrote:

If your lady knows where he is then I would first suggest she ask him for the permission

al-c, I second that motion. My wife was skittish throughout the courtship about approaching her ex for permission. Finally, she did - on the day before we were all to depart for the USA. Turns out he already knew about it, rumor travels fast in Yoshkar-Ola. The guy drives a marshrutnoe taxi, and my wife agrees to meet him at the first stop on his route - from there they drove straight to the courthouse, zipping right past all his regular stops, much to the outrage of waiting passengers - my wife was howling with laughter at all the shaking fists. We never needed the document - until much later.

Last spring we decided to let our daughter travel with her visiting Grandma back to Russia for the summer, but without Mom, she'd need her own International Passport issued by the R-Consulate in DC. First question they asked was: do you have a permission document signed by her father?

Our daughter Lenara spent a wonderful summer with her grandma, her ex-classmates and her Dad and his family. When she flew back in August, he even volunteered to drive our Lenara about 600 miles to SVO, and raised cain when a female ticket clerk told her that she was too young at 16 to board an int'l flight without a parent. He got the militsia to step in, check all the papers and overrule the clerk, way to go, Dad! I know that not every child realizes a renewed relationship with an estranged parent, so we've been very fortunate in that respect.

If he refuses, al-c, you've got the other option.

Vaughn

[POConnor]

bbernard

I do not want to be a pest in this but,

[size=TO ]OBTAIN A VISA FOR A  CHILD UNDER 16 ONE OF THESE IS REQUIRED:[/b][size=]

[size=1)      ][/b][size=Physicphysical presence of both biological parents;]

[size=2)      ][/b][size=Court  decree giving ]one parent  sole legal custody of the child;

[size=3)      ][/b][size=Death  certificates, in case one of the parents is deceased.]

A notarized statement from the absent parent  is NOT sufficient.

NOTE  THAT  A NOTARIZED STATEMENT FROM THE ABSENT PARENT IS NOT SUFFICIENT. A VISA WILVISA WILL NOT BE ISSUED TO A CHILD WITHOUT BOTH PARENTS' PRESENCE (UNLESS DECEAS    DECEASED) OR A VALID COURT DECREE GIVING ONE PARENT SOLE LEGAL CUSTODY OF THE CHILD

I do not know what version you the KEV-1 you used but the KEV-1 document dated 7/11/2003  in packet 3, states in RED to tow areas, copied above, that either both parents are there at the interview or you MUST have the custody agreement. It took my wife almost 6 months th go through the process to get the custody agreement. I do not want to see anybody get the the interview and find that they need it and do not have it. Any questions people should email the VISA section at the U.S Embassy in Ukraine to verify the need for the custody agreement. Also you may find that the agreement may be needed in the USA also, ex. some schools.

Before July 2003 when the girls whet the Warsaw to get there K-1s they only needed the nortarized statement, but now they need the custody agreement especially when the child is under the age of 16.