Anyone get a pre-nup?

[BrianW]

Thanks.

[ECOCKS]

Nope. Don't believe in them.

[Daveman]

Thanks.

There seems to be a variety of opinions here about it.  Personality I think they are a good idea if drawn up within the law and worded in an equitable, legally enforceable manner. 

My opinion is that is is far better to document what will be in the worst case scenario when two people are not in adversarial positions.  While it cannot eliminate the emotional pain of a split, a good, enforceable, equitable prenup written when the parties actually have a love for each other can help to prevent a total war of attrition at some possible point in the future. 

To some it's a stain on love. To other's it's just good sense.  For me personally, a prenup isn't all that necessary as I don't really own much. I have controlling interest rather than ownership is most anything of value.  It would be difficult for an entity other than the federal government -- with their constitution breaking behavior manifesting of late -- to get to my assets.  And of course any marital gain would voluntarily split 50-50.   

I think it depends a lot on the attitude behind the prenup. If one wants to use it as a test of love (does she love me or my money?? if she signs this, she'll prove she loves me.. blah blah), then it's a bad idea.  But if one is seriously planning for future possibilities with the idea of the best interest of both parties at heart -- at a time when both parties are not adversarial -- then it's a good idea.

The problem is, they will generally be challenged which will then open another side of war, but it's better to have a signed contract in the event of war than to not have it.  To each his own.

[facetrock]

In a short term marriage a prenup will save your butt. I have been told by every lawyer I know that after ten years you can use them for toilet paper. Its all up to the judge after your married that long.
No matter who I get married to I will get one. Just to protect me in the short term

[Daveman]

In a short term marriage a prenup will save your butt. I have been told by every lawyer I know that after ten years you can use them for toilet paper. Its all up to the judge after your married that long.
No matter who I get married to I will get one. Just to protect me in the short term

Yep, absolutely true.  And the most enforceable ones from what I was told (I am not a  lawyer and don't play one on TV) are ones which increase balance by degree over the course of time.

Less than 1 year, blah,
1-5 years, blah blah
5-10 years, blah blah blah

and then after this point, they're pretty much useless. 

Prenups will be challenged in most cases and the results can go in strange directions. 

[acrzybear]

Ahhh! The great thing about not being rich is that I don't have to worry about someone taking me to the cleaners.  I would only get a prenup if I had family heirlooms or property I wanted to keep in the family, but since I was born in a trailer park in Oklahoma and I have no clue about my family past my Grandmother I don't have to worry about that.

  As long as I have my truck, guns and dog  after a divorce I'm good (gawd that sounds like a country song) lol

[kievstar]

I do not believe in prenup.  Never would do it.  It amazes me how many greedy men there are.

But if you want a prenup she better have a Russian speaking lawyer and it better be video taped.  Everything must be translated in her language.  If she is from Ukraine, than you better do it in Ukraine and Russian.  Prenup better be fair to. 

If she gets really pissed, she can have you killed for about 15,000 in usa or 5,000 when visiting her home country - remember that.

[ECOCKS]

Ahhh! The great thing about not being rich is that I don't have to worry about someone taking me to the cleaners.  I would only get a prenup if I had family heirlooms or property I wanted to keep in the family, but since I was born in a trailer park in Oklahoma and I have no clue about my family past my Grandmother I don't have to worry about that.

  As long as I have my truck, guns and dog  after a divorce I'm good (gawd that sounds like a country song) lol

Gee Crzy, now I am a bit worried about the guns.......

Dude, what if she likes your favorite .40 or 9mm? What if she takes your favorite hvy. barrel varmint rifle and tells the judge you told her it was hers to keep the prarie dawgs away?

As for the truck, well, I hope it is jacked up beyond her climb-in comfort level! 

(j/k Crzy!)

[acrzybear]

Gee Crzy, now I am a bit worried about the guns.......

Dude, what if she likes your favorite .40 or 9mm? What if she takes your favorite hvy. barrel varmint rifle and tells the judge you told her it was hers to keep the prarie dawgs away?

As for the truck, well, I hope it is jacked up beyond her climb-in comfort level! 

(j/k Crzy!)

 No need to worry I actually only own 2 guns of my own and the other 2 are owned by the government so I'm safe there. The truck is nothing special just a 2001 XLT F-150 with 154,000 miles on it.  Since I am in Texas I just had to throw in the guns, truck and dog-after all I do have a reputation to maintain

[Shadow]

You might be in trouble with the dog. They usually like bitches more. 

[Doll]

I see now- Bear is a cop  This is what he means by "secure job" 

[remiel6]

Since I'm only a lawyer in training and can't give any legal advice don't take this as any legal advice but I believe the prior posts here are correct about the ten years. The biggest problem I can see with a prenup with a FSUW is the argument that the two parties were not really in the same bargaining position when the deal started. So that being said it should offer her more the longer she stays in the relationship. Be fair about it, that's what I would say. If you have assets that you want to protect, ie a family home you inherited etc... then by all means I would think a prenup would be essential to the protection of those assets. I would also think you are going to have a harder time protecting assets acquired after the start of the marriage then assets acquired before, not sure though as I have not gotten to a course that extensively covered these kinds of agreements. Any deal that leaves a woman with nothing after ten years of marriage is going to be eyed suspiciously.

[Doll]

remiel6, if a house is bought before the marriage why should I protect it by a prenup? It is not a marital property.

[Kuna]

I believe prenups are understandable for the guys nearing retirement.  I do understand them protecting a base standard of living if the unexpected occurred.

In saying that, I am not near retirement age, and I did not have a prenup prior to marriage. 

I did not and would not because I bring my premarital assets to my marriage and my wife brings all of her wonderful qualities. 

We joined in marriage, as equals.  Me as head of the house... her as neck.   

As a family we will use all of our pre-marital assets, skills, experiences and capabilities to build our family. Children, commitment to each other, property, investments - all these and more will be under active development.

Guys that aren't nearing retirement who focus on prenups strike me as having low self-esteem...  Their lack of confidence in their own decision making abilities (or their inability to keep a hot wife) makes them appear greedy.  Sad really...  but true!

[remiel6]

division of assets. You may be right, it depends on the laws of the state you live in. I am not positive on this you would have to consult a lawyer, but in this situation, especially if the house had been in the family for hundreds of years, I would put it in the prenup, or at the very least talk to a property lawyer.

[Doll]

division of assets. You may be right, it depends on the laws of the state you live in. I am not positive on this you would have to consult a lawyer, but in this situation, especially if the house had been in the family for hundreds of years, I would put it in the prenup, or at the very least talk to a property lawyer.

I have checked ,most of states and all the laws say that premarital property can't be split. Or it can come marital after so many years?

[HiTech]

Let's say someone flew from New York and stayed in Kharkov for two weeks. Found someone to marry, proposed, etc.

How much would it cost to bring her back to New York? Thanks.

You may be getting ahead of yourself.

My view on prenups is that in a sense everyone already has one, there are state laws that already provide a standard for divisions of assets post divorce.

So deciding if you need one or not, really is a question of does the state laws provide what you need/want or not. If you think you will be able to protect income during a marriage, it would be a very difficult thing. In states like Texas community property states. Things that each party owned prior to marriage still would be theirs post divorce so for most people a prenup really does not provide any service to you. 

But the details then get very strange, capital gains, such as the increase in value of a house or stock, is considered private income. But if the same money is in a bank , the interest is considered communal property. So for some people a prenup could be a simple as stating that Interest income of private assets for both parties is to be considered private income.

Kuna wrote:

I believe prenups are understandable for the guys nearing retirement.

For me this was the case. While I am only 48, I felt it was necessary to protect my current retirement assets. My wife has never shown anything that would make me believe she would not be equitable if the worst case happened. But as anyone who has been threw bad business deals will understand, a contract is not for when things are going good, they are for when the unexpected deification strikes the rotary oscillator.

HiTech

 

[Blues Fairy]

Wow, look who's asking - the same guy who expects to dump his Russian wife after a year.

I'm afraid I have bad news for you.  Even if you have a prenup protecting you from wife's claims, 1) most state family courts tend to strike terms that appear in their eyes to be placing a respondent in a position of duress; 2) there are cases where the immigrant has been successful in utilizing the existence of the Affidavit of Support (I-864) when negotiating the terms of the dissolution on marriage, because (surprise!), the US government is not a party to your prenup. 

Seriously, what exactly have you been "researching for three years?? 

[remiel6]

Yes I believe the previous post is right on that. A person would have to check the laws of the state they are living in. The issue would not be if the house became both of their house after so many years, what I would be concerned with would be a situation where there was so much growth in value that the couple gained as a result of the marriage that a person may own the house, but in order to give the spouse the amount of money they were due in the divorce they may be forced to re-mortgage or sell the property to satisfy the conditions of the divorce. I haven't taken a family law class yet and all the talk we had about prenups was in regards to contracts.

[ECOCKS]

Brian:

You need to tear up your present plan and start with a blank sheet of paper.

Research (here and elsewhere) your options and ask questions which help you define limits rather than work within ones you have already selected. Keep in mind that your mileage will vary but there are  a variety of successful and unsuccessful cases described on this site which should give you a good idea of what you are getting into when seeking a relationship with an FSUW. Be rational and dump your preconceived notions of how this works, this is a relationship not a business investment. Be prudent and protect yourself emotionally, financially and physically, but keep in mind that this is not a trip to the mall.

Then set out your objectives, timelines and realistic budgets. They should be honest but flexible. This is an affair of the heart, not a construction project investment. However, like a construction project slippage will occur. Estimates and bidgets are just that. Reality will force adjustments on you.

Oh, FWIW I find myself agreeing with the suggestions that maybe you need a bit more seasoning before embarking on this exercise. A purely vacation trip to Eastern Europe, ending in Odessa would be a good boot camp training experience for you.