Some ideas for AugustD

[JR]

For that elusive lurker AugustD who won't post it himself (no judgement here) but needs some direction I'd like to start a thread for any advice those who have walked the path before him can leave along the way. Perhaps he'll "lurk" and learn

First Question:
English Teacher? Yes. You are about to run into one of the greatest challenges you'll ever face. The preverbial fish out of water. Or in your case fishes. Both your new wife and son are going to be going thru more adjusting than you can imagine. I think the boy will be hit hardest. They need to learn the language and they need it fast. Without it they will remain outsiders. They need to assimilate as soon as possible to ease their turmoil form leaving everything behind.

[Vaughn]

AugustD,

  Regarding acidic posts - don't allow them to discourage you from fielding suggestions.

  I suggest you evaluate suggestions, check out your local possibiities, and then decide which
course of action works best for the three of you. Are they coming from Ukraine or Russia?

  I stopped by our local public school where my future stepdaughter was almost certain to be
assigned and asked to meet the ESL staff. They explained the scope of the program, how she
would transition into a non-ESL curriculum based on her progress, and was introduced to several
dozen of her future classmates - some of whom wrote her welcoming letters, which I hand-delivered
when the big move arrived. I also explored ESL possibilities for my wife - who spoke little English, and
found the best program for her to be held during the evening at the local community college.

  I will stick my neck out and call it foolish not to explore beforehand - you'll be busy enough with other
tasks that you cannot do now in their absence.

 Dad's permission - a sensitive subject. Much depends on individual circumstances... these you may not feel
comfortable posting here - and it's fruitless to make recommendations based on assumptions.

Vaughn

[ECOCKS]

August should also check out the previously written threads, there are tons of facts buried back down-thread there.

The English teachers for instance. My gut feel wasa that almost every spouse coming over will need English classes since being immersed in a total English environment with no Russian fallback is shocking. My wife speaks fair English but is frantically working her way through a program 4-5 nights a week to get it to the highest level possible. My son is doing the same although he had to be pressured to understand no one is going to just smile, clap him on the back and offer him a beer when he cannot communicate. At least not unless he wants to be a construction worker or assitant to a truck driver.

Driving is another area most will need to catch up on and practice to increase their skills. Many have licenses but nothing near the practical experience which has become nearly instinctual to Americans who have driven continuiously since age 16.

Shopping in our supermarkets is fun to watch them try. My wife is sort of stunned at the thought of being lost in a food store. I bought her a couple of American cookbooks (well-illustrated) to get an idea of our names for spices, seasonings, sauces and meat cuts. On the English note: EVERYTHING she reads in English helps her development and will aid in assmimlation and building independence.

What other things can you think of that would help you out AD?

[AugustD]

Thanks gentlemen.  I appreciate you taking the time to open up a thread about these issues we will face over the next several months.  Please know that it is not so much the acidic posts than it is the terminal division that I hesitate over.  With that said, I will take this opportunity you have provided to talk about my questions and concerns a bit.

Background:  I met my fiancee a year and a half ago on Elena's Models.  Travel to see her in 2008 was difficult because I taking care of my terminally ill father.  I was only able to see her 3 times over the past year.  Fortunately 2 were extended visits as we got a chance to live more together.  Our K-1 application is now in the hands of the embassy and she will interview in a little more than a month.  She comes from Kazan.  I currently live rural as we have a large property in western MI.  We will all three try to be patient and will move to the Dallas area probably in December 2009. 

Thanks for the blind advice.  Ecocks, I have read back on lots of the threads and there is fantastic advice there.  Thank you for the suggestion.  Finding English from a Russian teachers has been a challenge in my search.  I used Pimsleur for my Russian (though I listen to cd's 300 times before moving on).  I am not confident that such a course can be intense enough for them.  Fiancee speaks good English and with confidence will be fine.  New Son has attended an American School in Kazan (why they call it this is beyond me) and has studied English though his confidence is very low in it.  We do fine communicating together as he has taken on the role of teaching me Russian.  When his mom is present though he turns to Mom for the translations from and to me.  I am worried he will not be able to understand his subjects in school.  How long does it take?  I also do not want to push him too hard either.  What is the balance?

Vaughn, thank you for the suggestion of going to the school.  I called the local public school last week though I still wait for the return call from the principal.  I think your idea of showing up would be better.  I absolutely love the idea of getting other children to write him.  I will go to the local school here next week.  If I do not get satisfaction then I have two private school also.  Thank you for the suggestion.

Driving.  Uh yes I am a bit concerned about that.  She says I will teach her.  I think I need to get the floorboards reinforced so I am not Fred Flinstoning the ground during lessons.  I drive a large car (Lincoln) so not so sure it is the best for her to learn in.  I have told her that it will be no problem driving as we have plenty of rural roads to practice but not so sure how I will handle this.  Thoughts would be appreciated.

We will have a large welcoming party when they arrive.  This is not the community I came from as I moved here and shut down my business particularly to care for my parents.  Though I have few close friends here I do have family here and plenty of friends vicariously through my brothers so I hope to get her some social involvement early.  We will go to the local college and take some sort of adult learning class together in the fall to meet new people.  Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

My last question is about New Son's room and toys.  He will be leaving most all behind of course.  How much should I go out of the way to prepare his room and entertainment for him?  I do not know where spoiling leaves off from comfort.

A personal thank you to Jolly Rats for starting this thread.  I ask others to please not pull punches because of my comments on another thread.  It is not my own sensitivities I am concerned about. 

[acrzybear]

From what a few of  the married guys have mentioned about teaching their FSU wife to drive, you might initially consider a private instructor. The common things mentioned were frustration and and the damage to the floorboard and dash board from repeated use of hands and feet.   

[GoodOlBoy]

Welcome to RWD AugustD.

About driving.

You will probably find that your wife will be OK, with a lot of patience on your part.

My wife was able to travel down the road quite well.

Her main problem was turning and parking.

She just couldn't seem to judge distances very well. So we spent a lot of time at the local High school parking lot and the local WalMart parking lot.

After a lot of white knuckle experiences, she was able to get her depth perception in tune and perform all assigned tasks that I asked her to do and eventually passed her driver's license test.

One thing I must warn you about. I live in a Russian community here in Florida and I can state this for a fact.

Russian ladies DO NOT like being yelled at or as they say "raising your tone at me".

Don't do it. Bite your tongue or hire someone else to teach your wife.

They really get crazy about being yelled at.

Good Luck!


GOB

[ECOCKS]

Re: Driving

Find a BIG parking lot to practice in. Churches are good candidates on Saturday afternoons.

Re: Yelling at a FSUW

Only if you want to destroy your relationship. Authoritarianism is supposed to be dead in the FSU and they take the definition of freedom to an extreme in most instances.

Re: Son

Check into the school district's ESL program efforts and see if any of their programs are less focused on transitioning Spanish-speakers to English. Getting them into the best English program available ASAP (even before they come over) is essential in their development. Having them separated during classes is also advisable.

Re: Adult Education

You should give strong consideration to letting her do Adult Education on her own. You may well find that you being there makes her nervous and feel competitive with YOU. It is a good, structured way for her to build her own methods for coping with this new environment. Let her select her own subject areas of interest. Developing a hobby which she is passionate about from within is a great way to get her fully engaged.

[JR]

From what a few of  the married guys have mentioned about teaching their FSU wife to drive, you might initially consider a private instructor. The common things mentioned were frustration and and the damage to the floorboard and dash board from repeated use of hands and feet.   

I finally gave up on teaching my exwife to drive. It causes way too much friction. Not worth saving a few pennies on. I would say start and finish with a professional agency.

[JR]

 question is about New Son's room and toys.  He will be leaving most all behind of course.  How much should I go out of the way to prepare his room and entertainment for him?  I do not know where spoiling leaves off from comfort.

 

I would say: Find out what he likes and get a few, just a few. Then when he is here go out and get them as a family. That wau he will have an input and it'll help build family unity instead of the appearance of you dictating.

[Gator]

Vaughn, thank you for the suggestion of going to the school.  I called the local public school last week though I still wait for the return call from the principal.  I think your idea of showing up would be better.  I absolutely love the idea of getting other children to write him.  I will go to the local school here next week.  If I do not get satisfaction then I have two private school also. 

My wife arrived a year ago with a 10-yo daughter and 11-yo son.  Today, neither child speaks English with an accent.  Vocabulary is still a couple of years behind, and grammar even more.  But both amaze their teachers.  One went to a public school with ESL and the second went to a private school.  The public school kid advanced a little faster and farther, even winning the award "Superstar" given to only a couple of the kids in her class.  However, she is the type that just takes over and makes everyone feel good.

Basically, kids are like sponges.  Mama may take more work.

We will have a large welcoming party when they arrive.

 

Please give her a few days to adjust before meeting a bunch of strangers.   

We will go to the local college and take some sort of adult learning class together in the fall to meet new people.  Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

Until she learns to drive, you will be her only conduit to a social world.  This is not good because I believe a woman needs time away from her husband.  My wife arrived knowing how to drive and quickly networked into about three different social groups, two being RW.  She makes a point to pick up a couple of the non-driving RW to give them a break from the house.

My last question is about New Son's room and toys.  He will be leaving most all behind of course.  How much should I go out of the way to prepare his room and entertainment for him?  I do not know where spoiling leaves off from comfort.

Buy him a computer.  He will eventually need it for school.  Invite some kids in the neighborhood (or sons of your friends) to show him some cool games.  Does he like sports?  My stepson is good at sports and that enabled him to make friends.  I had a basketball hoop up and ready when he arrived.  These two kept him busy.  My stepdaughter entertained herself by prowling and other things that girls do.   

A few months after arrival I bought a puppy.  That helped too.


I had a lot of fun during the adjustment phase even though unexpectedly it was me making the biggest adjustment.  The only point of improvement is that my stepson is shy and still has not developed a good group of friends. 

[ECOCKS]

Re; Gator's Group Advice

Important. Give her 3-4 days to adjust from the time change and the LOOOONG trip. The child can show off a couple of his new toys and your wife can have gotten used to where the plates are kept and which way to the bathrooms.

While showing family acceptance is important, I find most FSUW to be more concerned with being setup correctly for the best possible first impression. She will be nervous enough at meeting her new family, the surroundings and the language coming from so many different people at once. That last one was interestingto me. My wife speaks upper intermediate English and has been comfortable and able to communicate easily enough with me. Additionally, our social circle in Kyiv is English-speaking and includes Americans, Canadians, Danes, Dutch, Italians, Germans and Austrians (if you live there or visit for a while join or drop by a Rotary meeting). Still, she was a bit bewildered in the states, confused by multiple accents coming from multiple directions in a concentrated time period. Her accent thickened and her English began deteriorating until I got her out of the center of attention and able to take a couple of deep breaths.

[ConnerVT]

Some sound advice above.

On children and language:  I'm a firm believer that, especially in the pre-teen years, any language will be quickly learned if it facilitates play.  If all the cartoons in the USA were in Mandarin, all of our kids would be speaking Chinese.

When my son arrived from Russia five years ago (at age 5), he knew perhaps 10 words of English ("Yes","no","I love you", "Spiderman"...)  We put him, without much forewarning to the school, in a Kindergarten class (mid-March).  His teacher (not a language specialist) integrated him very quickly into the class, and he was able to move on to the First Grade with the rest of the students.

By the end of the First Grade, he was already near the top of his class in Literacy (what they call English in schools today).  He still is today, and a voracious reader, too.

The above in itself isn't that interesting.  Just a little background to set up some observations I've made over the past five years.

-- On subsequent trips back to Russia, we stay with family, which includes his cousin (a year older than my boy).  It takes almost no time for him to throw English under the bus, as all of his focus is playing with his cousin and watching Russian cartoons.  Amazing to see a well spoken English speaker, with a good vocabulary for his age, literally forget how to speak English in a matter of days.  Back in the USA, it is again only a few days before he is back to the same level he was before he left for his trip.

-- My wife and I have always tried to maintain his Russian language skills.  He is (and always will be), after all, a Russian citizen with a lot of family back in Russia that don't speak English.  When he left Russia at age 5, he spoke as a 5 year old, with a 5 year olds vocabulary.  Which works well if you only need to speak with your Mama.

What we found is that he refused to speak Russian with any of our Russian speaking friends.  He would always be very polite when they would try to engage him to speak in Russian, but would always respond in English.  We suspect that he was self-conscious of his lack of Russian vocabulary.

A solution we tried last year was to pull him out of his Fourth Grade class here in the USA a month early, and sent him to Russia on his own.  He flew from NYC to SVO by himself, and stayed with family over there for two months, before my wife left for Russia to join him.  He attended the last month of school in Russia (in a second Grade class, a better grade for vocabulary growth and reading comprehension).  More important, he didn't want to be seen as speaking like a 5 year old, especially while hanging out with his cousin's 9-10 year old friends.

My wife was very pleasantly shocked at how much his Russian language skills had improved when she arrived two months later.  They both spent nearly another 6 weeks in Russia, and i could see the difference in him when they returned (even though I am not a great Russian speaker, I can follow a good amount of most conversations).

I just wanted to share this experience with you, to illustrate that learning language for children is a natural thing.  Their minds are wired for it.  The trick is that they don't do it for a logical reason, but an emotional one.  You just need to make sure you put the carrot in the correct place.   

[SANDRO43]

Interesting observations Conner, and your conclusions are confirmed by my experience.

On children and language:  I'm a firm believer that, especially in the pre-teen years, any language will be quickly learned if it facilitates play.  If all the cartoons in the USA were in Mandarin, all of our kids would be speaking Chinese.

I already related how I made a quantum leap in English when, starting to study it in 7th grade, I stumbled across the original US versions of Walt Disney's comics .

The trick is that they don't do it for a logical reason, but an emotional one.  You just need to make sure you put the carrot in the correct place. 

Depending on age and personality, the reward may be emotion, interest, self-esteem or a host of other things: the pleasure/satisfaction factor is the most motivating in any endevour .

[Tamara]

I just wanted to share this experience with you, to illustrate that learning language for children is a natural thing.  Their minds are wired for it.  The trick is that they don't do it for a logical reason, but an emotional one.  You just need to make sure you put the carrot in the correct place.   

Conner, I can not agree with you more. Children are very fast to pick up the language and assimilate to the new culture and surroundings if they are motivated.  AugustD, make sure that the son goes through ESL program to cover English language basics and form solid foundation for future studies. In a couple months your son will require more work to maintain his Russian than English.

[Dave13]

I paid for my wife to attend a driving school in Russia! Money well spent!

Dave

[KenC]

August,
Just my 2 cents on driving.  I would recommend that you get your woman driving lessons and a drivers license before she comes.  Michigan honors a Russian DL for up to a year.  They also print the study guides and give the written test in Russian.  Any driving experience you can get for her prior to her coming will help save some frustrations of teaching her to drive here.  Best of luck to you.
KenC