Visiting one woman vs a couple of women on the same trip

[russianfront]

Hi all I am posting this in the newbie section even though I have a bit of insight into RW since I was married to one for 6 years (but wasn't through an agency). When I first went to see my ex-wife Natasha in the year 2002 I was there for 6 weeks and we got married in the end. I only went to see her.

Fast forward 9 years and I am back to square one again. This time I am using the more common approach of writing to numerous girls and seeing what shakes out of the process. Well I am about 2 months into the correspondance period and I have a short list of about 5 different women scattered all over Russia and Belarus that I am in regular touch with by email or ICQ chat. I have only made a couple of phone calls so far as most of the top women for me I have only been in touch with for several weeks. Depending on the day and the contact (and photos!) the top 5 are constantly being shuffled up and down in my ranking order and there is no clear front-runner. I have stopped contacting pretty much anyone else as these women are more than enough for me. I see my future wife in one of them for sure. As I have lived with the Russian culture so long and have been over there 3 times for extended periods as well as hung out/socialized with the Russian community here where I live I feel that I have a special (well at least enhanced) insight into these fine women.

So my question is (knowing that I am planning a trip over in the summer):

Should I 100% make up my mind who is the women I am crazy about the most and just go see her

--- OR ---

Is it ethical (and explainable to them) that I go see 2 women on the same trip? I bet that is hard to explain. They didn't sign up to be in the Batchelor TV show after all!

Obviously seeing more than one women is better on my side as I can compare the women and our interactions in person...but again how do you meet a women who you like (and probably hit it off with) and then tell her...OK now I go to see woman #2 and I may or may not be back depending on how it goes! If I was in the other place I wouldn't like it at all!

Now I could probably be tricky (which I do not do well!) and just go see the "top" woman and if it didn't work out come home and re-visit and see the other woman without telling her about woman #1 but its a bit expensive and the other recent passport stamp might be hard to explain....

I would really like some advice here on both sides but especially from the guys who saw multiple women on one trip.

Thanks and good luck to you all. I really enjoy this forum.

[JR]

Do you know for certain none of the women have other men on the front or back burner? Would be a bummer if you showed up to see "Girl Numba 1" and she tells you "This morning I got engaged to Mr. Wonderful. Sorry I couldn't tell you but you were already on the plane. Have a nice stay."

Are telling any/all of them that they are the only one?

The first time I went, back in 91/92 I saw five different women, none were thrilled about it but understood. I was upfront and honest. The second time I went it was to see just one whom I met during the first visit.

[russianfront]

Thanks for the reply. I have not asked any of them if they are seriously interested in another guy (or if another guy is seriously interested in them) and none has asked (yet) how many women I am chatting with. It is understandably a difficult topic to bring up. I am sure that soon enough a "front runner" will emerge and I will have to find a way to pop the question. On Elenas models its easy enough to see when the woman was on-line last but on cuteonly there is no such status.

One women I like sent me her first response email saying that the day I wrote her she was removing her profile from the site as she hadn't met anyone she liked...and sure enough her profile is gone and she seems pretty into me. So that's a good sign!

[JR]

I would say it's a very good sign

When I went I made sure to explain that I was making the trip to meet "some people" that I had been corresponding with, have a nice vacation and if I met someone special then so much the better.

You may find that you like the first one you meet so well that you spend all your time with her. I would caution against that. Counter-balance is always good. But I'm sure you'll get a gut reaction and it'll become clear in the 'here and now.' Or there and then as it were

Best of everything to you.

[tfcrew]

It is understandably a difficult topic to bring up.

I would say that if someone is staying on their own, then don't bring it up.
Just be able to stay long enough.

[Vaughn]

I see my future wife in one of them for sure.

Russianfront, can you say that with certainty - having met none of them yet? I'm not trying to
rain on your parade at all, just trying to understand from where that claim arises.

One other facet: with these five living over vast distances, will it be feasible to visit more than
one at all? And will geography in itself spell the demise of one or more of your prospects? Just
wondering out loud.

I admire your willingness and enthusiasm for starting afresh, and I hope the "constant shuffle"
of the ranks settles down and produces a clear leader. IMO that will shed light on your path.

Vaughn

[russianfront]

I have a feeling that within a month the ranks will thin and I'll be mostly in contact with 2 women at most. The problem is that the women I am speaking with now are spread from the Polish boarder all the way to central Siberia. 2 of the best are in Belarus though so that would be convient as its a relatively small country. The problem as I see it in any case is that as much as a person would want to, if you intend to visit more than one woman you cannot get too gushy over her (in person and before) knowing that "contestant #2" might rev your engine more. The deeper the feelings the harder it would be to let someone go. Thats why I think its better to meet sooner rather than later so the feelings are developed, but not overly developed, prior to meeting.

Oh and Vaughn you are right I should have said that my future wife MIGHT/PROBABLY is in the top 5. You never know but I do have a really good feeling about a couple of the women so far.

[Noyrt]

To Russianfront: Glad to see that I'm not the only one with this moral delima in mind during a trip over...   From my experience, (never been married) but have been to Ukraine 3 times and kazakhstan  1 time.   The latter was to visit only one woman. They definitely want to be the 'only one'... but she wansn't into me.. just desperate..
In ukraine 2 of the 3 trips was to meet the same woman I though she was the one, till after the second trip, she kept showing the same problems, that I thought would pass after she accepted I was for real.. She never did..... It was sad to leave..

On my last stay in Ukraine, I tried to travel around and meet many women, (generally without writing first) The usually never took me serious, and though I actually met some I liked, the games were always there.. 

So writing certainly helped establish a baseline.  but then not writing and meeting some at agencies, many lied and had boyfriends locally, (it was obvious) and even after spending some weeks with a girl 'who wouldn't open up' and I left to meet others... When I tried to return, she threw it in my face..  So I agree with you... ITS HARD to coordinate and decide..

I still prefer to visit only 1 woman after writing, but it's a higher risk.. cause you never know.. I've learned that RW / UW love to live by the little white lies... But they want you to be fully honest!

My advice,, plan to meet the best one.  But don't divulge your travel plans to the 2nd or 3rd potential..   Use the internet cafe alone to "write to mom" and check in with them if needed. Spend some time with #1 if she isn't it,, take the train #2 or 3 and say you wanted to surprise them when you arrive..  The passport stamps might be a deal-breaker, but don't bring it up ..

I actually have a friend in Keiv who was my teacher here in Atlanta years ago.. I just say I had to visit her and her husband, which I usually do... That gets you off the hook if you don't mind the little white lie..  The women certainly don't seem to mind it.. 

FWIW.. Goodluck,, Tryon
 

Goodluck.. Tryon

[Gator]

Russianfront,

Welcome to RWD!

Some disjointed thoughts:

Much depends upon your budget (time and $) for the next year.  How many trips can you take?

Positive expectations from months of letters and phone calls can collapse within 5 minutes of the first meeting.  Happened to me a few times.  OTOH everything can click, confirming expectations and progressing from there, until .............

If one woman is vastly superior to all others, don't waste your time with the others.  However, is she ready to commit a whole week just to you? 

I did three WMVM trips, then went to see only one the next time.  When on such a "scouting" trip, I preferred to meet only one woman per city for 2-3 days, then move to another city.  This requires a lot correspondence to enable both parties to commit that much time to a "stranger."  Logistics is an issue.

If all women seem the same, meet many.  Short meetings.  Have backup plans to meet even more.  In the past many men would go to just one city, meet 3-4 women per day, working with a full-service agency to arrange meetings.

If you intend to meet many, the question is when to meet the "most promising candidate."   If first, you may decide not to meet the others and spend the rest of your time with her.  That's good, but she may not have any available time (work, etc.).  If you save her for last, you will think too much about what awaits rather than what is in front of you.  Is that fair?

Best of luck!

[GoodOlBoy]

On my last stay in Ukraine, I tried to travel around and meet many women, (generally without writing first) The usually never took me serious, and though I actually met some I liked, the games were always there.....

 

Tried it once in Russia. Didn't work for me either. Russian women can "sniff out" this kind of behavior from miles away.

Any Newbies out there that think they can "play" a Russian woman.....Don't kid yourselves.

So writing certainly helped establish a baseline.  but then not writing and meeting some at agencies, many lied and had boyfriends locally, (it was obvious)......

Several here on RWD "tout" agencies as the best way to go.

I don't agree.

IMO an agency is just a lazy man's way of finding a wife. Pay your money, sparks fly (at least for you), file your K-1 and get married.

I think agencies cut out the best part of this whole process, (at least for me) "the hunt" (for Red October ).

No, seriously, I really miss the courting part of my wife's and my relationship. The long emails we use to write to each other, talking on the phone every morning/evening and exchanging cards through the mail.

My Marina even cut a small piece of her hair and sent it to me one time. She said "I am there with you now".  

You can't "buy" this kind of stuff from an agency.

I hope your future wife turns out to be one of the 5 you are in contact with Russianfront, BUT.....If not.....

My best advice.......Just keep looking and writing, trust me, she is over there in the FSU waiting for you.  


GOB


BTW....I still have those strands of hair my wife sent me.  

[Gator]

Russianfront,

Care to comment about your marriage and divorce?  Six years is a long time!  Divorces usually happen sooner.  

Glad to know that you still consider RW as the best.  Your marriage obviously had many positive aspects to try again with RW.

[Chicagoguy]

Maybe instead of visiting all these places you could rent an apartment in Moscow and pay to have them visit you. Or at least some of them. It is difficult to travel easily there if you are not a native.

[OlgaH]

Is it ethical (and explainable to them) that I go see 2 women on the same trip? I bet that is hard to explain. They didn't sign up to be in the Batchelor TV show after all!

I think it is ethical to tell the truth and let women make their choice to accept it or not. 

Welcome. 

[Faux Pas]

I think it is ethical to tell the truth and let women make their choice to accept it or not. 

Welcome. 

I agree. Deception is no way to start a relationship. There is absolutely nothing wrong with visiting many women, just be honest about it. How would you feel if those 5 ladies all had other men meeting them at the same time as you? With honesty, all likelihood the majority of your 5 will disappear. Nobody including FSUW wish to play second fiddle. Would you?

[GQBlues]

First off, allow me to tip my hat to the men who went WOVO and was met with success.

I chose WMVM, and these were my premises.

1. Until you meet in person, everyone is nothing more than virtual strangers.
2. I tried hard not to allow my associations to go beyond the stage we were all in.
3. I left my heart at home when I left for my first trip.
4. I was blunt and honest with my intentions and how I envisioned the first meeting is supposed to be.
5. I echoed what my ultimate plan was (searching for a person with the most potential for a committed relationship) but understood you can't make the right choice if you're not afforded choices to make it from. Russia/Ukraine was a one time shot for me. If nothing happened after the trip, I was happy to go back and date locally.
6. I encouraged them to do the same what I planned to do in approaching our association. Women are entitled to explore their options as much as I feel entitled to mine.

A WMVM is nothing more than a WOVO waiting to happen. So much is revealed after the initial meetings. If you trust your wits and instincts, it will hardly lead you astray. I found that the 'right' person for me happened because I allowed it to manifest itself, not because I wanted it to happen. But the meeting must first take place.

While most of the women hailed from Moscow, some were from as far as Vladi, Siberia, to Ber'dansk (sp), I thought the best way to handle this was to spot Moscow as a central point in the meetings. The meeting was for the sole purpose of personalizing the association so there's a mutual opportunity for each of us to see if the relation have the potential for further pursuit. I arranged travel and accomodations for the women interested in meeting me, and hopefully 'myself'. A chance was all I was asking for everyone before that time.

I always took to the notion that a woman in love will never fret to trek the ends of the world for you. Her actions will always be undeniable.

For me, in this pursuit, It was never what a woman does with you when you're around that really matters, it is what she does when you're not.

[HiTech]

russianfront: The ethical dilemma arises when you are trying to establish a romance before meeting. If you are not trying to romance a lady in letters, but simply finding basic compatibilities, schedule your meetings ext.  Then I do not believe you will feel any moral conflict and the woman you are writing to would understand that you are just simply meeting when you arrive.


GOB: I see no relationship between the concept of meeting a woman from an agency, and doing all the writing and getting to know each other , spending hours talking ,writing letters ext.

Just because you meet threw an agency, does not mean you do not do all of the above after meeting.


HiTech

[GoodOlBoy]

Just GoodOlBoy's opinion and opinion's are like assh*les (everybody has one).

Agencies do serve a purpose......for "weak losers".

Men who probably have to much money (agencies aren't cheap) and not enough time on their hands (or desire) for them to put in the necessary "leg work" to find an FSU woman on their own.

These men generally need to have their hand held through out the process and also need constant reassuring with a translator in tow on their "dates" once they hit the ground.

"Real men" on the other hand find a way (using dating sites, personal ads and informational sites like RWD) or just make a way to get it done on their own.

FSUW respect "real men".

Just my 2 cents.


GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

As far as WMVM or WOVO...I will only say what has been said to me now by well over 100 Russian/Ukrainian women that I have met here (Russian community...Sunny Isles Beach, Fl) on my own or through my wife:

"Men who visit our countries (FSU) to see many women are not serious" and "We don't trust".

Take it or leave it....Not my words, the FSUW's words.


GOB

BTW....One Russian lady I met last year on the beach, said something to the effect of: "like shopping in large store for wife". She wasn't saying it in a humorous way either, more like disgust.

[Kuna]

Russianfront,

You're in for a tough decision.  Here's some of my thoughts on this:

1. If a woman even gets a hint you're visiting others it's OVER.

2. I followed the exact same process... whittled my penpals down to 3.  One was difficult to arrange time while in Kiev so I moved on.  Meeting the other two was a mistake, I should have gone with my gut feel and just met the first, my favourite.  She's now my wife so my hesitation and lack of confidence in her being "the one" didn't implode on me, but if I had my time again I would get down to one and "go for it!"

3. You can try to make all of the letter writing as emotionally disjointed as you like, but if a woman doesn't know you're writing to others she'll expect you to be visiting just her, and if you're not, she's very likely to tweak and then you're out of luck and chances.  One chance is al you'll get.

4. I read in another of your posts that some have children, some don't, and you're open to either.  I'd suggest this is SUCH a big consideration you need to decide if children are OK by you, if so how many and what age.  If they are OK, that's fine... you're back to where you started but don't let that decision linger because it is a BIG ONE that affects more than you and the woman!  Choosing to visit a woman with children could reduce risks in many ways.. but you really need ot be sure you've thought this through.

5. Before I started I knew I was just a weak and stupid man... so I wrote down all of my hopes and goals on a piece of paper and kept referring back to that as te writing continued.  It helped my keep my feet on the ground and as I received replies and things conflicted with my own original goals I would "disengage".  THis was a crude method of "qualification" for me... not idea but it worked.

6 (and last).  This is an expensive journey.  If you're not counting pennies (if so give it up now) I would suggest you get it down to one or two then back your own judgment.  Visit one and put everything into it.  Be as real as you can with all the women so you don't rock up with them expecting George Clunie and getting Danny De Vito. Once you've backed yourself and made the decision make it a short trip if you must...  but make a trip.  Perhaps if it falls apart early you can then decide to exit that situation and rock up in another ladies city unannounced.  That makes visit number 2 high risk, but no higher risk thand if you were visiting > 1 originally anyway.

Good luck, try to keep it real, be confident but not foolhardy, and put all of your efforts into making sure whoever you meet will fit comfortably into your lifestyle, city, family, etc and don't fall for the one with the nicest letters/photos/etc.

Kuna

[Wraith]

Pretty sound advice. I appreciate all the posters who have responded to this. And have had the "ethical delimna" question myself and still do actually. It is very hard but am leaning toward VO.

[Gator]

Ah, the dilemma of her feelings!

IMO the average RW believes more in destiny than the average AW. The concept of meeting an interesting stranger from a faraway land intrigues Russian women, and their sense of destiny.   It creates an intoxicating mood.  Meeting other RW, even if just one, destroys the mood.

For those doing a WMVM, be honest if when asked, and do not volunteer.   

Expect that some women will drop you upon learning that you are meeting others.  Others will dismiss it as part of the game process.  The more you have corresponded with a woman, the more likely she will be upset, thinking that maybe you were different, her mysterious stranger from a faraway land, meant only for her.

A key is whether a woman wants to spend an entire week with a stranger.  More than one RW has insisted that I meet only her, and when scheduling I learn that she does not have much time to spend with me (a dinner on the first day, an afternoon walk the next day but nothing in the evening, etc.).  "I will fly for over 12 hours and you can only see me for 6 hours in the first two days.  You want me to sit in my apartment and read a book while waiting for your limited appearances."

Meanwhile, rest assured that many women are writing more than one man, with meetings scheduled possibly before and after you.  Then there are the Russian men....

I like what GQBlues wrote, "A WMVM is nothing more than a WOVO waiting to happen"

[Wraith]

Nice post Gator.

Trust me, I have no doubts a woman would be writing other men. I don't think for a moment that she doesn't think/assume/know likewise with me. I have had one state she has focused her attention more toward me and wasn't quite certain how to accept that notion simply because she is actually one I have pretty much focused on as well. She is a real doll though and this is a basis for me leaning to VO. I am not quite certain how much time she will have to spend with me when I do go over there but she did actually offer the idea of meeting me at the airport which took me by surprise given the actual distance from her hometown is something like 350 to 400 KM(ballpark figure and I could be wrong).

[russianfront]

I was asked about my expereince and divorce from my first wife so I'll spend a little time explaining. Why didn't it work out? Well 1) I was blind to see that we were too different 2) I didn't know how moody/high maintance she would be 3) She was HOT as hell (and still is) 4) I was in denial
To be honest even during my honeymoon over there I had serious doubts but decided to hope for the best. But it was apparent within a few months of her being here that it would not last unless she changed. And she didn't...rather she tried to change me which was not going to happen to the unrealistic dregree she wanted...imagine lap dog...But I stuck it out for way too long until it finally collapsed and we decided to call it quits. Now I am years older and somewhat wiser although I tend to get goo-goo eyed way too fast especially for women in slinky dresses and sexy smiles. Oh by the way when I was married to my ex she was quite young but so was I - I was 29 and she was 20). So maybe age had a part to do with it.

So now I try again. I was thinking "going local" but after a couple of lousy dates here I RAN to the computer and started firing off letters. Once you have been married to a FSUW or any other European women you will not want to go local again, trust me. And since I have made contact with some great women already I think I have confirmed and validated my decision..I am having an absolute blast communicating with my women so far. Really its a thrill to start off with a simple "preveet" and see where it goes!

I do have an issue with the comment that there should be very little connections and feelings developed pre-meeting. Its hard just to write a lady and say "hey I am attracted to you and think you are an interesting person and oh by the way when I come to your city in 3 months I'll look you up. Goodbye"...that sounds like an agency tour to me.

No I am going about it the other way. I want to really bond with my top list and see how deep the feelings can become before meeting. That way if the actual meeting goes well WOW you are off to the races. I know its risky to develop feelings prior to meeting (especially locally if you know what I mean DISSAPOINTMENT CITY!) but over time I have the ability to:
1) See her in dozens of RECENT photos (either you like what you see or do not!)
2) Call
3) On-line chat (ICQ, Skype, etc.)
4) Webcams
So there is no way that you will walk into a meeting with a woman blind to what she is like. Hell when I went to see my first  wife, it was INSTANT attraction and we hit it off like white on rice. And I knew it would be that way as we had been in constant contact for months AND as I have read here before she was more gorgeous in person than in photos. So the only thing to really throw it off is that there is an in-person personality conflict but again hopefully that would have been sniffed out before.

I am now leaning on going to see only one woman BUT having a backup plan just in case it didn't work out. And as far as 1 week being too much time to devote to 1 woman, when I went to Ukraine for 6 weeks on my first trip there I LIVED with my girl for 6 weeks - the entire time. It was wonderful.

I'll keep you all posted on how its coming along.

Oh and the kids thing I need to really look into that. I cannot take it lightly. I have no idea what the process to bring a kid over is anyways. I need to start to consider this before I get too into my top ladies who have kids.

Interesting discussion all. You are a great bunch.

[russianfront]

Update from me...

Looks like its a one woman trip coming...for better or worse...

Just spent 6 hours straight last night chatting (ICQ) with an awesome lady. She is great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gator]

Six hours!  Yes, that's a WOVO.  Its the natural evolution of your planning; seeing other women would not make sense.