Your Wife, and His Potential Fiancee

[Photo Guy]

I think it would be fantabulous, if the Russian/Ukrainian wives of 'foreign' guys, would offer their services as women who can provide an outside opinion of a guy's potential fiancee, through phone calls with the guy's gal. Who would be willing to do this? This kind of thing would be much appreciated and extremely valuable in helping to guide a couple or individual through the process. I haven't read that much here at RWD, but Jet's post has piqued  my interest, for sure. What do you think?
-doug, not being sarcastic

[START2]

Doug,   What's up with the red circle with a slash through it on L's face?

[Photo Guy]

The 'Not Allowed' symbol, is a visual reminder to me, that I should be reconsidering my feelings about her. It might be prudent for me to disconnect from her for a few days, based on the ideas thrown at me in the last day or two. I've been told that I am presently unrealistic and foolishly hopeful about the outcome of my correspondence with this fine lady. Maybe that's true. I need to mull it over and reevaluate the situation. Maybe she's not the amazing person she seems to be, through translated conversations and emails. I have to think about why it would be so bad to spend three months living with her here in my home city, in order to make such a huge decision that will affect the rest of my life. The red symbol makes me question my own decisions. The symbol also poses the question for others: Should I cross her out and write her off? And if not, how much of a mistake is it to make the decision to bring her over on a K-1. My gut tells me it's not a mistake. The red symbol means I'm questioning what I'm doing with her. It's a question for you out there, too. (I mean that as food for thought. I'll be making any BIG decisions on my own)

My problem is I don't see the advice and rules here as being clearly correct. This is what I mean:

1- There are guys who spend very little time searching,
including face time, and yet have ended up in happy marriages.
2- There are guys who spend very little time searching,
including face time, and end up in a bad relationship.
3- There are guys who spend lots of time searching,
including lots of face time, and end up in happy marriages.
4- There are guys who spend lots of time searching,
and end up not finding a wife, or in unhappy relationships.

These are the four basic stories that I've read here at RWD. I guess the story I hope to conform to is story #1. I have doubts about it, because a bunch of experienced guys are telling me that I should pursue a strategy that conforms to #3. This must mean that the odds of success for #3 is much greater than for #1. I don't know. Is that true? Are my gut feelings about Larisa, off-base? What are the odds of story #1 happening with me?

Who has success conforming to story #1? Anyone? Doudis?
Timmy? These are just things I'm mulling over right now.
-Doug  

[Admin]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

I think it would be fantabulous, if the Russian/Ukrainian wives of 'foreign' guys, would offer their services as women who can provide an outside opinion of a guy's potential fiancee, through phone calls with the guy's gal. Who would be willing to do this? This kind of thing would be much appreciated and extremely valuable in helping to guide a couple or individual through the process. I haven't read that much here at RWD, but Jet's post has piqued  my interest, for sure. What do you think?
-doug, not being sarcastic

Doug,

This actually happens quite a lot - just on an informal basis. I know Olya has offered to help guys from time to time with phone translations, or some other such assistance. As she gets to know the woman a bit, she offers her perspectives to the guy - so that he has a clearer understanding of what he/they are getting into. There was one case in which she offered her rather low opinion of the guy to the girl as well - it cuts both ways.

Best bet is to open a friendly dialogue with some of the married RWD members, and as you get to know them, if the opportunity/need for assistance comes along, things can be worked out.

FWIW

- Dan

[Admin]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

My problem is I don't see the advice and rules here as being clearly correct. This is what I mean:

1- There are guys who spend very little time searching,
including face time, and yet have ended up in happy marriages.
2- There are guys who spend very little time searching,
including face time, and end up in a bad relationship.
3- There are guys who spend lots of time searching,
including lots of face time, and end up in happy marriages.
4- There are guys who spend lots of time searching,
and end up not finding a wife, or in unhappy relationships.

These are the four basic stories that I've read here at RWD. I guess the story I hope to conform to is story #1. I have doubts about it, because a bunch of experienced guys are telling me that I should pursue a strategy that conforms to #3. This must mean that the odds of success for #3 is much greater than for #1. I don't know. Is that true? Are my gut feelings about Larisa, off-base? What are the odds of story #1 happening with me?

Who has success conforming to story #1? Anyone? Doudis?
Timmy? These are just things I'm mulling over right now.
-Doug  

Depends on what you mean by "searching." A little story. Olya had been here for maybe a few months in the summer of 2001 when we were invited to a gathering of guys who were interested in meeting women from the FSU. I was one of only two married couples there. Maybe a dozen guys showed up altogether. One of the guys seemed nice enough, and Olya and I had talked about the prospect of setting someone up with her best friend in Ukraine. After some talking - that is exactly what we did. This guy spent very little time "searching" - but he did make about half a dozen trips over to Ukraine, and spent considerable time in-country with Valya and her daughter before making the final decision to marry her. They have been in this country for more than a year now - and things can be a bit rocky - primarily owing to the teenage daughter - but they seem to be doing pretty well.

Not quite the story you were asking about - but if you want to, I can get you in touch with Norm to ask him more.

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Who has success conforming to story #1? Anyone? Doudis?
Timmy? These are just things I'm mulling over right now.
-Doug  

Well we've been married for 10 months now and it has gotten better each and every month. But I consider this a fluke and the fact that I really did win the lottery. I met Elena three or 4 days before I was ready to head out of country. This was in May, I would not be able to go back to Russia for almost a year. We did not have much e-mail contact but talked on the phone for hours at a time several times a week. We talked about how big a chance we would be taking with each other if we did the K1 and that we would not really know about each other until we had a lot of 24/7 time together but we knew that we had very good chemistry together and wanted the same things in life so we decided to give it a shot with the K1. We both believed that we wanted to spend our lives together but also knew that we were taking a big risk with this line of thinking. For us it worked out as we were better together than we thought we would be. It has not been all peaches and cream. We've had problems but nothing that even comes close to being called a fight. The biggest problem still is that she misses her family and culture. I would in no way, shape, or form recommend that ANYONE follow my steps here but like I said, I won the lottery here.

You've gotten a lot of good advice here, some of a bit harsh but we need to hear that too so take it for what it is and not as a cut and you will get something good out of it.

Ken

[dostogirl]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

I think it would be fantabulous, if the Russian/Ukrainian wives of 'foreign' guys, would offer their services as women who can provide an outside opinion of a guy's potential fiancee, through phone calls with the guy's gal.

I don't think it's a good idea. The thing that may come out of such a phone converstaion is that the foreign wife may like the girl on the phone, but it doesn't mean the girl on the phone will be a good match to you. It's only for you to decide.

[Jack]

Photoguy, as Dan mentioned their are many Russian/Ukraine ladies here in the states that are willing to help new ladies who have just arrived. My ex-Natalia helped a lot of ladies who had just arrived and needed help or just someone to talk to. Even today Natalia would still be more than happy to help any new lady who had questions or needed help.
 
I have missed alot of what has been happening on RWD over the past few months but I think I have read enough to see that maybe your situation has changed a little? Don't know for sure but feel free to PM if you would like. As I recall the lady you met was like the first and only Russian woman you met and you fell for her and was sure she was the one, is that about right? Very seldom does such a case work out where the two were really compatible. If you two are putting some distance between the relationship it is probably the best thing that could happen to you.
 
For those who meet one, marry one and she was the very best Russian woman for him, well he should indeed consider himself a lucky man. Oh sure it does happen, their are those out there who met under this same situation and have had a good marriage, but they are the exception, not the norm. Most men (and women) have to meet many potential mates before finding the right one.
 
If I met three ladies and choose the best from those three I wonder how truly compatible woman I was able to pick. If I were to meet 10 ladies I might find someone a little more compatible than the one I choose from the best of the three. If I were to meet 20 ladies, I might find someone even more compatible.  Ok, I see what your going to say next, where do you draw the line? How many ladies is to many to meet in trying to find the right one?
 
I don't think anyone knows the answer to that, well camergurl probably does as he knows everything, but most everyone else would not know the answer to that. The best answer I can tell you is this, once a man has gotten some experience with Russian women, once he has meet several Russian women, then I say when he meets her he will know. It's hard for a man to meet 3 Russian ladies or 7 Russian ladies and be able to say that. Usually best for a man to take his time, meet many ladies with not being pressured for time or to make a rush decision. And once a man has met several Russian ladies, becomes educated as to the ways of Russian woman, once a man has reached this plateau I think it is safe to say, "When you met her, you will know".
 
Best of luck to you Photo Guy.
 

[RacerX]

I think it would be a very bad idea and here's why:  the relative social status, education, age, etc., would strongly bias any advice you might receive.  For example, my wife thinks [no flaming, PLEASE] that Ukrainian women are in general, "simple village girls."  If she talked with a 20 yo girl with only the equivalent of a high-school education, she would likewise be very condescending.  OTOH, she, like many RW is very intuitive and can spot a "ringer" within seconds of talking with her.

The basic problem is that she, OK make that us, feel that many men are happy with simple village girls.  Without question, such girls are very grateful to be in the USA and will  not complain (at least for the first few years) to the slightest degree about your messy home/your sh!t-box car/your backwoods town/etc.  I can't tell you how many stories I have read here and on the other board that confirms this hypothesis.  It's difficult to be overly judgmental about such matches, since they may have little distinction between what you see in your own backyard - but if you ask the "wrong" RW about it, she won't have much compassion on giving you a piece of her mind, right or wrong.

Think of it this way: would you call one of your buddy's wives and ask them their impression of your new g/f?  

For me, this is an arena best left to the professionals - RW who do this for a living.  They are apt to be much more clinical and impersonal, and to offer advice not tainted by their social situation.

Anyway, it's just MHO.

[Leslie]

Doug,

If you want an experienced second opinion from a russian woman try here -

http://www.lenhenrikson.com/elena/Index.htm

I actually used Lena when I was trying to sort out my "relationship" (which never existed except in my own imagination)  with a woman called Nelya from Kherson.  Lena is a christian and a good woman.

 

[Photo Guy]

Hey, thanks to everyone for your input! I think it's a fool who doesn't consider outside points of view. I'm seriously thinking about all of your suggestions.  

[Jet]

Dostogirl and RacerX bring up 2 VERY valid points of concern, but on "the other side of the coin" is the possibility that a fiancee may tell things to the wife, that she won't tell to her man.

Hard to believe, but I put one woman in touch with my wife at her California fiance's request and this woman over time, confided that she was milking the guy for cash and worldwide vacations while entertaining a live-in Russian boyfriend when the fiance was stateside. The story played out much like Riverwind's tale in the other thread. He ignored the warnings, she came here and the relationship lasted exactly 20 days (luckily for him she returned to Russia). She is 41, an absolute knockout (looks 25, no exaggeration), ex wife of a New-Russian, and currently has another clown "on the hook" for a second try at life in the states. Interestingly, like RacerX warned, Liliya didn't really like this woman, and yet the woman really took to Lil and even now calls her here in the US from time to time.

Another recent situation when my wife spoke to the fiancee of a close friend of mine, she learned some really disturbing things about the child, which my buddy could NOT have understood unless he was fluent in Russian as well as getting some unsettling insight into probable mental illness of the fiancee. In one conversation they had, the 11yo daughter was yelling in the background something which roughly translated to "Shut up and quit wasting our precious air with your idiotic ramblings, bitch!" My buddy, took Liliya's concerns into consideration but decided to continue anyway "just to be sure" he wasn't making a mistake by letting her go. On the night before the K-1 embassy interview, the 11yo threw an 8" chef's knife across the kitchen, deeply cutting her mother from the right eyelid through the forehead to above the hairline and then exclaimed something to the effect of "There, now no man will ever look at you again, and I will have you all to myself!" This woman actually received the visa but thankfully my buddy was smart enough to leave her behind.

[andrewfi]

I think RacerX is right, if a person 'assesses' another person to establish their suitability then that assessment is bound to be coloured by the assessor's own prejudices and beliefs - not just about the woman, but also the man.

As I wrote in another thread, giving credence to anther person's advice is a great way of choosing the right person... for the assessor.

In the end, it comes down to this, if you can't do it yourself, don't do it. Essentially, I think Jack is saying the same thing, because, in the end, the only way to be able to make one's own choice is through knowledge. Meet enugh, date enough, fall in love (and out) enough and i nthe end, one comes to know. For sure though, much of my experience with women from my own culture was invalidated by what I have learned over the past five or six years.

If you are going to work with a third party as counsellor, IMHO you need to be able to have your counsellor answer VERY specific questions about specific points about attitude, or background. Just allowing two people to have a natter for half an hour and then report back impressions is no good at all. The downside is that in order to make that specification, one needs a lot of knowledge about both the person you seek and yourself - if one actually knew enough about these things, then the use of a third party would be pretty much moot anyway!

I still learn - had a very interesting chat with a friend yesterday about how things worked for him and his wife and how he saw relationship dynamics in respect of fidelity that filled in a few new spots. (I think also that he gets something from me...)

[Jet]

Andrew also brings up some valid points, one thing that may have been lost in this discussion is that for all the women my wife has been in contact with, the premise has never been that of an "evaluation" of the woman's character, sincerity, motives, or compatability. It has always been of an instructional nature regarding the specifics of the process and/or what can reasonably be expected as far as the woman's adjustment to life abroad. Liliya is a math/science teacher, not a doctor or therapist. In the end, each prospective groom has to make the "assesment" for himself. Any impressions she may pass along are simply backup to confirm or refute what he already knows . 

[BC]

Having others chip in to help evaluate, give perspective and general impressions is good, but doing this for a couple that that cannot communicate to begin with will just be a crutch to get the relationship kick started. 

I just could not imagine marrying a woman where communication was severly limited.  There would not be enough person to person understanding to justify such a serious bond. 

A few years back I met a woman where the initial chemistry was quite fantastic, she was one of the prettiest and most sexy women I have encountered.  Unfortunately we had no common language and could only haphazardly communicate.  We did end up in bed, but let me tell you - without any way to express our true needs and desires the experience was quite lacking and was little more than I imagine I could have with a 19.95 Missy Inflatable. 

We giggled and laughed after this experience then parted ways, both much wiser than we were before. Certainly wise enough not to run off get married.

Don't run 'round with testicles hanging on your ears.. It not only looks stupid, it IS as stupid as stupid can be.

You simply do not have a relationship until you can communicate without crutches, period.

'..we got married and then got to know each other'.. yeah right.

 

 

[Photo Guy]

You are saying that your lack of verbal communication had a negative impact on your ability to have good sex with her, and compared it to sex with an inflatable doll. That was your ultimate conclusion about her? Do you know Albert?

[Jet]

Photoguy,

Either you're being really sarcastic or you missed the point completely. What BC is saying is what every married member will tell you:

Communication is the single most important aspect of a successful relationship.

Furthermore, in a cross cultural relationship it is absolutely imperative that the person moving to the new country makes learning the new language their top priority.

[Bruno]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

You are saying that your lack of verbal communication had a negative impact on your ability to have good sex with her, and compared it to sex with an inflatable doll. That was your ultimate conclusion about her? Do you know Albert?

Doug, why in your reply to BC, you need make some attack against Albert... He is what he is but he have nothing to make with your fight here...

I am surprised of something so low from you

It is not the "no olds-barred" section, so try to moderate yourself. And don't involve people who have not yet reply or attack you on these topic.

[Photo Guy]

Sure, that goes without saying. She's been taking English lessons with a private tutor. I agree.
BC's example was... not very tasteful.

[BC]

Contempt prior to investigation Photo.. You have a very bad habit of this.

Not ability, but all considered quite 'functional' and not nearly as fulfilling as it could have been had we been able to fully express ourselves to find mutual ways of heightening the experience (refering to 'pillow talk' and  defining mutual limits.. not just moaning).

Had nothing to do with her at all.

Of course if you're a 'grunt and roll' type and she won't flip out regardless of where you're pokin then all's well.

Sad situation when more investigative effort is made to evaluate and understand the available options when buying cars.  Look at a new car broschure written in Russian and you will see what I mean.. how much will you really understand besides the pictures and that you can identify the various parts?

Yeah.. and for sure you would at least test drive the car before handing over the check.

[Photo Guy]

I am not having a good day. I've been called a desperate loser today. Today, a friend's wife changed her mind about speaking with Larisa. Another person gave me a nice example about how bad communication led to bad sex. None of this is very cheerful. Most of the time I am an upbeat happy-go-lucky kind of guy. This place doesn't suit me. I apologize for my presence, my sarcasm, my obnoxious statements, and my unending devotion to that fine woman.  Later...  

[Bruno]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

I am not having a good day. I've been called a desperate loser today. Today, a friend's wife changed her mind about speaking with Larisa. Another person gave me a nice example about how bad communication led to bad sex. None of this is very cheerful. Most of the time I am an upbeat happy-go-lucky kind of guy. This place doesn't suit me. I apologize for my presence, my sarcasm, my obnoxious statements, and my unending devotion to that fine woman. Later...

Doug, it is not a problem about this place suit you or not... you cannot escape the real life and dream to life in other planne of existence... the reality can always remind you his painfull law...

If don't see something wrong with Larisa or your relation but you are in the very early stage of the dating process... find in the advice of other no the attack but what you can use for find your own way... and i can certify you that the way to the perfect relation is full of black hole...

Nobody can know if you will fall in some of these hole or not... but other indicate you possible hole... maybe you will not find them on your way but in anycase you find them, you know them and will be able to go over... until the final success...

People give you example, personal experience... nothing say that they pass to you, nobody know that you will know so terrible situation... but don't see the possible danger is a risk in itself... knowing the possible danger allow you to build new strategie able to remove these danger... don't take you dreamed relation for the reality... you will only know the reality of your relation with L in several year...

Really, i don't care if you have kiss or not L, if you sleep or not with her... the only problem i see is that you see your starting relation like something strong... a long and never ending relation ask several year of work with your partner to build it... not one kiss, not one night sex, not the 3 month from a K1, not a marriage can change something to this... time, very long time is needed before have something strong... a succesful relation is a life work...

Allow some doubt in your relation, these doubt can help you for remove the possible bodytrap... have some doubt is not weakness... people without doubt are fool...

It seem that you have your own destiny and that you can change nothing... not true, it is by making your own decision that your build a way to your destiny... here, religious people say : "Help first yourself and after God will help you"...  

 

[BC]

That's the problem with shiny armor.. gets real heavy very quickly.

Knights never ever got on their big horses alone or were they able to stand without assistance after getting thrown.

Take your lumps while standing on firm ground.

Sure you feel a bit beat up right now but all we are really saying is look twice, three times or as many times as necessary before crossing the freeway. Nobody likes seeing road kill.

[KenC]

BC,

Boy, you're hot today!  First the buying the car analogy and now this road kill thing.  Very well said.

KenC

[Son of Clyde]

What would be a good reason not to do the K1?

She could be a great actress for 90 days?

Maybe if you bring her here and plan the wedding on the 89th day it will give you the "face time" you need to make the final decision. If she is acting during thiose 89 days maybe there will be an air of desperation if she realizes you are waiting until the last possible moment.

I don't know what a "scammer" looks like, there are all ages, shapes and sizes. You were harassed about her not kissing you (the first red flag) but there could be an explanation for it. Maybe you should share a pm with Maxx because he can give you invaluable information and you will not feel belittled by it.