Another noob question...

[Sculpto]

this thread really reminds me of my first trip to Donetsk.  I really knew nothing about the FSU and had only decided to go to Donetsk because after reading as much as I could I found this odd article that stoked my interest in a big city I had never heard of...

http://www.counterpunch.org/nagle12212004.html

I had cheered the orange revolution like most everyone in the west did, but, that article just came off as oddball and then it was very difficult to find much of anything else about Donetsk, it still is really considering the large size of the city. 

Anyway, once there and seeing how many nightclubs, people drinking at all times of the day and night in the center, young girls having E trips outside nightclubs on weeknights, meeting hippie chicks that made the best free love girls in SF seem prude and all the other over the top insanity I witnessed first hand made me realize before I ever even used an agency site that most of what is posted in profiles is pure fiction. 

Here is the truth.. if a girl says she doesn't smoke.. it means she doesn't buy cigs.. but she smokes other peoples cigs when they go to the club..

if she says she doesn't drink.. it means she sips her vodka, nurses one beer and loves champagne.  She just doesn't get puke drunk more than once a month.

If she says she is family oriented it means she loves her Mother.  And it also means she will love her children.

If she says she loves to travel it probably means she would love TO travel, as long as YOU are paying.

If she says she likes home coziness.. it means she is a neat freak and is hoping for at least a 3000 square foot house.

If she says she is in good shape it means she is on a starvation diet and doesn't have money to ride the Marshutka so she walks 5-10 KM a day.

If she says she likes fashion.. ugh.. better get your CC limit raised.

If she says she likes dance.. it doesn't mean ballet.. it means she likes to shake her booty in the club and she will scream during the male strip tease.  And yes CR.. ALL the nightclubs have male striptease.. it makes those sex starved maidens go crazy..

etc etc etc...

ok ok so I am exagerating a little and painting with a VERY wide brush.. but who of us who has been over there and been even a little bit exposed to the nightlife could report anything different?  Again.. super hot girls dancing alone in the mirror.. what the heck is that about?

BTW.. totally off topic.. but has anyone heard from Scott in the last few days?  I am a little worried about him.

[CONCRETE RIVER]

^I'm seeing complete evidence of what u write.  Seems like the rave scene has a huge impact on their weekend outing too.  Hence the "love to dance" claim.

[Sculpto]

CR.. check out www.kazantip.com

not going to find a bride there I am afraid.. but looks like one hell of a party

[CONCRETE RIVER]

CR.. check out www.kazantip.com

not going to find a bride there I am afraid.. but looks like one hell of a party

^not entirly true. I was a rave promoter for 11 years and dj'd in countless clubs across the country.  I had alot of decent relationships throughout that time from girls I met in that scene.  It was just picking the clearheaded ones out from the whacked out ones.  I had a blast in those times, even though I was never a much of a drug fan.

[Aloe]

CR.. check out www.kazantip.com

not going to find a bride there I am afraid.. but looks like one hell of a party

i don't know about other people, but in my circle that party is considered really low-level drug infested gathering of people, rather than a party.

[Aloe]

Here is the truth.. if a girl says she doesn't smoke.. it means she doesn't buy cigs.. but she smokes other peoples cigs when they go to the club..

if she says she doesn't drink.. it means she sips her vodka, nurses one beer and loves champagne.  She just doesn't get puke drunk more than once a month.

i don't smoke and by that i mean i don't smoke, tried to smoke when a neighbor boy picked it up, when we were 6, he took us all out to a remote hidden place and passed a cigarette around, that was horrible, and that was the only time i ever held a cigarette. i have a few friends who don't smoke either, so you can't just say that
also i drink once in 3-6 months, and in my profile i put "social drinking".
I don't think im the only girl so honest out there am i  

[Enot]

I believe that to be true. After two you would be required to have a waiver.  In fact your friend won't but "could" be prosecuted for immigrated fraud. He submitted a form that stated he intended to marry the lady.

You can also get the K-1 removed from you record.  Just write the USCIS with justification and they usually remove it.

I'm sorry but getting prosecuted wouldn't stand up in court.  The judge would laugh it out of court.  If what your saying is true, many people would be in jail for breaking engagements.

Actually, it's people like your good friend that over the years that has made a mockery and a mess of the immigration process now.

OH PLEASE!!!  What do you do if you don't love someone ... marry them any way?  I don't think so, that would cause more of a mess!  Bad advise and another Fax Pas by you.  Our government is to blame for the "mockery" by not letting women come over using an easier process.  K-1s are fine for getting married but some people don't have the time and money to go live with them for a few months, thus the K-1s.  Sometimes it doesn't work out after 3 months.

The immigration is a mess because we allow illegal aliens to stay in this country and applications are not reviewed carefully, not because of K-1 visas!  This was just a very ignorant remark so educate yourself on immigration before speaking Fax.

The part of getting to know them, building a relationship and kicking the tires should damn well be done long before you get into a K-1 process.

Agree but this isn't a gaurentee to a happy marriage.  I've known men that went once for 1-2 weeks, filed a K-1, got married, and are still married years later.  I also know men that took years to get to know FSU women, married them, now are divorced.  My point is, marriage is a crap shoot.  There are no gaurentees and no right or wrong way to find a foreign wife.  Just do what you feel comfortable doing and don't take anyone's advise that makes you feel uncomfortable.

Best of luck "River"!

[CONCRETE RIVER]

i don't smoke and by that i mean i don't smoke
also i drink once in 3-6 months, and in my profile i put "social drinking".
I don't think im the only girl so honest out there am i  

^me too.  I left it on "social drinker"  cause id figure i would stay honest even though its less than once a month i drink more than one cocktail. 

my profile also states that i dont smoke, yet I am a former smoker...there was no option to state that.

[Faux Pas]

OH PLEASE!!!  What do you do if you don't love someone ... marry them any way?  I don't think so, that would cause more of a mess!  Bad advise and another Fax Pas by you.  Our government is to blame for the "mockery" by not letting women come over using an easier process.  K-1s are fine for getting married but some people don't have the time and money to go live with them for a few months, thus the K-1s.  Sometimes it doesn't work out after 3 months

.

Why would anyone do a K-1 fiancee visa for someone they didn't love? Oh wait, they are like you and couldn't get laid in a women's jail with a fist full of pardons.  Why is it you only show up to disparage and call names? Time for a flood on the board of more of your lies? Who is our government, Einstein?

The immigration is a mess because we allow illegal aliens to stay in this country and applications are not reviewed carefully, not because of K-1 visas!  This was just a very ignorant remark so educate yourself on immigration before speaking Fax.

You're just not very bright are you? The K-1 visa situation is in the shape it is, BECAUSE of the fraud in the past. It has very little if anything to do with the problem of illegal immigration in this country. Everybody doesn't enter the country on K-1's and those that enter on visa are generally taking the legal route. Equating fiancee visas to the illegal immigration of undocumented aliens and blaming it is pure BS and expected from you. 

Agree but this isn't a gaurentee to a happy marriage.  I've known men that went once for 1-2 weeks, filed a K-1, got married, and are still married years later.  I also know men that took years to get to know FSU women, married them, now are divorced.  My point is, marriage is a crap shoot.  There are no gaurentees and no right or wrong way to find a foreign wife.  Just do what you feel comfortable doing and don't take anyone's advise that makes you feel uncomfortable.

[/quote]

Anyone would be well advised not to take any of your advice. Your grand illusions of mediocracy and moving beyond pinheadom will never be achieved.

[Enot]

.

Why would anyone do a K-1 fiancee visa for someone they didn't love? Oh wait, they are like you and couldn't get laid in a women's jail with a fist full of pardons.  Why is it you only show up to disparage and call names? Time for a flood on the board of more of your lies? Who is our government, Einstein?

You're just not very bright are you? The K-1 visa situation is in the shape it is, BECAUSE of the fraud in the past. It has very little if anything to do with the problem of illegal immigration in this country. Everybody doesn't enter the country on K-1's and those that enter on visa are generally taking the legal route. Equating fiancee visas to the illegal immigration of undocumented aliens and blaming it is pure BS and expected from you. 



Anyone would be well advised not to take any of your advice. Your grand illusions of mediocracy and moving beyond pinheadom will never be achieved.

I didn't call you any names.  If you mean ignorant then you don't the know the meaning of this word.  It means uneducated in a subject matter.  Everyone is ignorant of something.  Let's see, you said I wasn't very bright, a pinhead, and insulted my charater more than once.  I think you are the name caller here.

Go ahead and think immigration is messeed up because of K-1 visas, I'm sure many would disagree with you.  It's your option and your entitled to one.  You can go ahead and marry your fianncee after she arrives even though you don't love her.  Best of luck with that but you will probably end up broke and very unhappy.

[Sculpto]

i don't smoke and by that i mean i don't smoke, tried to smoke when a neighbor boy picked it up, when we were 6, he took us all out to a remote hidden place and passed a cigarette around, that was horrible, and that was the only time i ever held a cigarette. i have a few friends who don't smoke either, so you can't just say that
also i drink once in 3-6 months, and in my profile i put "social drinking".
I don't think im the only girl so honest out there am i  

Aloe, I hope you weren't offended by my post.  I was exagerating and said so.  But nevertheless from my limited perspective smoking and drinking are almost always listed on agency profiles as "no" yet I am sorry I just don't believe it after four trips.

How is it possible that almost every woman with a profile doesn't smoke, yet, when you walk down the street or go to a club EVERYONE is smoking and drinking???

I will never forget intermission at Beauty and the Beast in Moscow.  So many people were smoking that the smoking area was unbearable.. and I SMOKE!  After intermission the smoke filled the entire theater.  Hundreds of people had some kind of alcoholic beverage.. champagne.. a beer.. I even saw 15 year olds smoking. 

So, lets be real about that topic.. the chances that a lady is not being honest on these two specific topics is very high.  Guys who don't smoke or drink should really keep this in mind.

[Ade]

I didn't call you any names.  If you mean ignorant then you don't the know the meaning of this word.  It means uneducated in a subject matter.  Everyone is ignorant of something.  Let's see, you said I wasn't very bright, a pinhead, and insulted my charater more than once.  I think you are the name caller here.

Go ahead and think immigration is messeed up because of K-1 visas, I'm sure many would disagree with you.  It's your option and your entitled to one.  You can go ahead and marry your fianncee after she arrives even though you don't love her.  Best of luck with that but you will probably end up broke and very unhappy.

I have to agree with Enot here; you American's have made a rod for your own backs. Being so restrictive on long term tourist visas forces people to go the K1 route way too early and hey, that can lead to people not knowing each other too well. Then what? I guess a lot of guys refuse to acknowledge their mistakes and go ahead and marry because of the "investment" they've made is just too great to throw away. The wise ones are the ones that realize that they've made a mistake or perhaps just need more time and call it off. On top of this your system encourages DV claims by making it easy and profitable to get a GC. It's a totally bizarre system.

[TwoBitBandit]

On top off this your system encourages DV claims by making it easy and profitable to get a GC. It's a totally bizarre system.

So the score is now:
Logic: 0
Feminism: 1
 

[Sculpto]

Immigration into the US is way too complicated a topic to generalize.  There are all kinds of motivations in the policy, political, social, economic that all influence the rules.

What is true it the K1 process is messed up.  But, let us not forget that women bring men over on K1 visas as well.  Certainly not in the numbers of men bringing women, but, it happens also.  Are these man brides subject to IMBRA?  Nope.  Can the man brides make DV claims.. maybe but who would believe them?  Do man brides undergo the level of scrutiny that women are subjected to? 

I might be wrong, but i am pretty sure the K1 process was never intended to be a conduit for how we are using it.  I believe it was originally deisgned to give immigrants and people who had achieved citizenship the ability to bring a wife over from their prior country.  The international marriage phenomena is relatively new in this regard.  Keep in mind I am kind of guessing about this.  Nevertheless the way the system currently functions invites fraud and as SJ said pushes people to make decisions too soon into a relationship. 

Honestly in my own case I am quite uncomfortable with the 90 day limitation.  I don't want her to get off the plane and then to immediately have to start thinking about wedding planning.  I would much prefer a settling in period to give her some time to get at least a little used to things.  But, it seems there is no alternative. 

[Enot]

Thanks for the support guys.  Unfortunitly people that want to submit documentation for a visa to get to know someone better are mostly limited to a K-1.  A visa that should last for more than 90 days without quantity limitations.  Tourist and student visas and pretty much out of reach for most FSU people looking for a visa unless they already have a relative in the states.

I agree, a visa for a fiancee is pretty messed up and thanks again for the support.

[ECOCKS]

i don't smoke and by that i mean i don't smoke, tried to smoke when a neighbor boy picked it up, when we were 6, he took us all out to a remote hidden place and passed a cigarette around, that was horrible, and that was the only time i ever held a cigarette. i have a few friends who don't smoke either, so you can't just say that
also i drink once in 3-6 months, and in my profile i put "social drinking".
I don't think im the only girl so honest out there am i  

You're not the only one Aloe. My wife is a serious vegetarian, drinks a glass of wine or two 3-4 times a month at meals or parties, thinks beer is disgusting and unhealthy, never smoked and won't allow it in our home. She put social drinkin, non-smoking and vegetarian. Many of the gals are honest and some just give in to being compelled to say what they think we want to hear/see.

[ECOCKS]

Come on....

No one said it was easy.

You chose to date someone from another country and begin intercontinental dating requiring a 10+ hour travel time to pick her up. You have a total of maybe 6-8 weeks of face time (grabbing an average out of thin air) and a few hundred Skype calls and emails which form the foundation of your relationship. Yes, the K-1 is abused as a "try before you buy" program like test-driving a Porsche.

However, the law is well-intentioned despite the overreaction of our lawmakers. In addition to the security risks, health risks (especially for National Health-styled countries), past criminal activities, marry and divorce scams and those documented events of spousal and immigrant abuse there is the general confusion over translations and different countries' laws to be sure are straightened out. If you cannot take the heat of this process then get the heck away from it and start looking for Mrs. Right at your church's Thursday evening Bible study or the rundown biker bar/strip joint downtown.

Oh, and climb down off your anti-American podium - Canada is more restrictive than we are without allowing any type of fiance' program and Britain is basically on par with ours in terms of bureaucracy, timelines, health checks and arbitrary interview procedures. Get over your BS political and social agenda.

BTW, K-3 is used for bringing over your wife if you are already a citizen, not a K-1. Foreign families are considered as a group subject to age limits and relationships.

[Ade]

Oh, and climb down off your anti-American podium - Canada is more restrictive than we are without allowing any type of fiance' program and Britain is basically on par with ours in terms of bureaucracy, timelines, health checks and arbitrary interview procedures. Get over your BS political and social agenda.

BTW, K-3 is used for bringing over your wife if you are already a citizen, not a K-1. Foreign families are considered as a group subject to age limits and relationships.

Anti-American?  Damn, people so overuse that term.

I will be honest and tell you that if I lived in the US I wouldn't even contemplate international dating with anyone in Europe. I think the system in the US encourages train wrecks for the previously mentioned reasons. Canada, nope wouldn't contemplate it there either.

You are right about the UK being very restrictive but at least they have easy and cheap access to continental Europe. There tends to be more vacation time than in the US too so guys can take advantage of the proximity.

Then there's the rest of Europe with their Schengen visas. Getting a first time two week  Schengen tourist visa through Finland is a formality - 350,000 Russians do it every year. Once that has been used and not abused, it's fairly straightforward to get up to 3 month visas without much trouble and they can be issued twice a year, every year.

Over the past year my fiancée has been here for 4 months. As an EU citizen living and working outside my own country I can (and will) bring my fiancée here in the summer on a tourist visa, get married, and have the right for her to automatically and immediately live and work here; and there are no fees either. This is not even a "loophole" and was recommended to me by the immigration office here.

Yes, if I were a native Norwegian I would have to apply for the 6 month fiancée visa which can take anywhere between 3 and 9 months to get, and if I married abroad I'd still have to go through a family repatriation process, which takes just about the same amount of time. But, at least I could spend 6 months out of every year with her here in the meantime.   

Let's face it the US system sucks a big one, as does the UK system. The Canadian system sucks less but only in that it seems to be less open to abuse so at least it's doing something. No system is perfect, but some are a lot less than others.

FWIW, if I lived in the US or Canada I would be distance dating inside the US and Canada; the reasons people give for not doing so are generally very silly.

[Misha]

[quote author=SeriouslyJaded link=topic=9463.msg180872#msg180872
FWIW, if I lived in the US or Canada I would be distance dating inside the US and Canada; the reasons people give for not doing so are generally very silly.
[/quote]

You have never been to Canada I take it  :evil: After Russia, Canada is the second largest country in the world. True, you will save the hassle of Citizenship and Immigration Canada, but it won't be much easier or cheaper dating someone from the Maritimes or Newfoundland if you are living in B.C. for example. Also, if a woman in Canada has a career (i.e. the type of woman I wanted to date), she will invariably tell you that she does not want a long-distance relationship and she won't be interested in moving. That's life. It is true that you can't simply meet someone for a week and bring them over to Canada. However, if you have an opportunity to spend an extended period of time in Russia, it will be easier dating and easier to find someone than "distance dating" inside Canada IMHO. 

[Ade]

[quote author=SeriouslyJaded link=topic=9463.msg180872#msg180872
FWIW, if I lived in the US or Canada I would be distance dating inside the US and Canada; the reasons people give for not doing so are generally very silly.


You have never been to Canada I take it  :evil: After Russia, Canada is the second largest country in the world. True, you will save the hassle of Citizenship and Immigration Canada, but it won't be much easier or cheaper dating someone from the Maritimes or Newfoundland if you are living in B.C. for example. Also, if a woman in Canada has a career (i.e. the type of woman I wanted to date), she will invariably tell you that she does not want a long-distance relationship and she won't be interested in moving. That's life. It is true that you can't simply meet someone for a week and bring them over to Canada. However, if you have an opportunity to spend an extended period of time in Russia, it will be easier dating and easier to find someone than "distance dating" inside Canada IMHO. 

I said generally for a reason, there are always exceptions, especially if you live in the arse end of nowhere. But the way I see it, there are 10's of millions of single women between North America and Canada. They share the same language and the same culture. The flights are going to be cheaper generally, and the hassle will be less generally and it will be a hell of a lot easier to spend extended amounts of time with each other just because of the visa situations. All in all, the likelihood of finding a match is higher and risk of failure is lower.

7 or 8 years ago I was considering moving to Canada and I started talking to several Canadian women online; they were nice, educated, intelligent and sexy as hell. I almost took a trip there just to date a few.

If the woman can't move, why can't the man? If two people fall for each other there's no law saying that it has to be the woman. And let's be honest here, if he's living in arse end town he's going to have problems finding a woman anywhere that would want to move there.

[Misha]

If the woman can't move, why can't the man?

Some of us have jobs where it is very difficult to move on a moment's notice and if we find a new job, there is no guarantee that it will be in the city where the woman we find happens to live.

[Ade]

Some of us have jobs where it is very difficult to move on a moment's notice and if we find a new job, there is no guarantee that it will be in the city where the woman we find happens to live.

Hey, I didn't say it was easy but when comparing long distance dating in your own country (or next door in the US) to the FSU I just don't see where the FSU comes out on top in the list of pros and cons. Except one; economic disparity leverage which allows fat old guys to marry 20 year old hotties. Of course, many people will give a lot of other reasons which they may actually believe, like more traditional women, etc, etc but I think we both know that's self delusion and "traditional women" are just as likely to be found in your home country.

[Misha]

Hey, I didn't say it was easy but when comparing long distance dating in your own country (or next door in the US) to the FSU I just don't see where the FSU comes out on top in the list of pros and cons. Except one; economic disparity leverage which allows fat old guys to marry 20 year old hotties.

And, let me guess, you are of course the exception  :evil:

Of course, many people will give a lot of other reasons which they may actually believe, like more traditional women, etc, etc but I think we both know that's self delusion and "traditional women" are just as likely to be found in your home country.

Well, at no point have I ever said that RW are more traditional. If anything, they are LESS TRADITIONAL. However, work brought me to Russia and I speak the language and know the culture. In many ways, I am more at home in Russian culture than going off to some other part of Canada or the the United States. We all do what we can to be happy.

[Ade]

And, let me guess, you are of course the exception  :evil:

Yes, of course. I've said it many times; I've never searched the FSU for women, have actively avoided contacting them and ignored the many requests by FSUW on the normal dating sites I have been registered on. I know from the experience of my first marriage that long distance dating and international marriage is a pita and full of pitfalls.

Well, at no point have I ever said that RW are more traditional. If anything, they are LESS TRADITIONAL. However, work brought me to Russia and I speak the language and know the culture. In many ways, I am more at home in Russian culture than going off to some other part of Canada or the the United States. We all do what we can to be happy.

Well, I wasn't talking specifically about you and what you think, I was generalizing about the majority, or at least the majority I've read on here and other similar forums.

And FWIW, I do consider you to be one of the relatively few exceptions.

[Gator]

Yes, of course. I've said it many times; I've never searched the FSU for women, have actively avoided contacting them and ignored the many requests by FSUW on the normal dating sites I have been registered on. I know from the experience of my first marriage that long distance dating and international marriage is a pita and full of pitfalls.

Is that not the same as, "I know the pitfalls of alcohol, been there, done that.  Yet someone offerred me a drink so I had it, and this time it is different."

Well, I wasn't talking specifically about you and what you think, I was generalizing about the majority, or at least the majority I've read on here and other similar forums.

I don't read the other forums, yet I do not see the majority of posters as bad, or whatever it is you are trying to accuse them of.  Then gain, I am not jaded.  Life is a glorious blessing.