Professional daters

[picard]

On my last trip to Ukraine little over a year ago, after a week of dating, it became obvious that many women in the agencies are professional daters.  Since you have to pay the agency to set up the date, the girl gets a % of this fee for going out on the date.  The girl has nothing to lose.  What’s the worse that could happen?  Maybe she has to endure an hour of boring conversation.  (It's not like she has to put out.)  Other than that, she gets a free meal, and she gets paid!  It’s really not a bad gig, and I found out many girls make a nice living just doing this. It’s a win/win partnership for the girl and the agency.  While this is not your traditional “send money for ticket/sick mom/dying dog, etc…” scam, it still a waste of your time.  I’m sure there are many girls in the agency who are honest about their intentions, however.

[Misha]

Since you have to pay the agency to set up the date

Wouldn't it be easier to not use agencies that require you to pay them to set up dates?

[JR]

Wouldn't it be easier to not use agencies that require you to pay them to set up dates?

Uh, yeah........

[picard]

Wouldn't it be easier to not use agencies that require you to pay them to set up dates?

yes, true, but not too many agencies will give out the contact info for free.  (Yes, I know there are free sites but I'm talking about the agencies in the city you visited.) Whether they set up the date for you or just give you the girl's contact info, they still charge you.  Obviously you don't have take her to dinner either.  I didn't take any of my dates to dinner on the first meeting.  We always meet for coffee on first meeting, but I'm sure that's not the case with everyone.  Surely many guys will try to impress immediately.  Anyway, the point I was making is that there seems to be a lot of professional daters now in the mix.

[JR]

Yes, to that you are correct. There is a general consesus that many FSU women don't want to leave now that the financial situation has stabilized. But sinse last OCT. that has probably changed.

[ECOCKS]

Pay your $99 to EM for 6 months and make your contacts. Setup your own dates and learn to screen out scammers.

Good luck.

[Misha]

Surely many guys will try to impress immediately. 

In other words, some guys are insecure and compensate for these insecurities by flashing/spending loads of cash?

[JR]

In other words, some guys are insecure and compensate for these insecurities by flashing/spending loads of cash?

Isn't that what he just said?

[Misha]

Isn't that what he just said?

Call it seeking clarification.

[kievstar]

I do not buy the professional dater crap.  Men who think these women are professionally daters probably have flaws and need to work on improvement of themselves.  These men just do not meet their expectations in a boyfriend.  Which is ok.  Top girls in agencies can pick meetings from up to 40 guys a week if they want in person.  If your a man who dates attractive young woman in your home country, than go after top girls.  If not, be careful or you will end up in trouble down the road.

What city did you go to and agency?  What was ages of girls compared to you?  Do you meet their income level request - In Ukraine be careful of any girl who says financially secure?  Every agency owner I have met in person says that is a man welloff. However, on RWD many people tell me that is not true.  I think the agency owners know more. 

Men need to be prince charming and impress.  Too many men just think showing up will seal the deal.  Buying a meal is not flashing money.  In USA when you take a girl out you normally eat.  No different in Ukraine. 

Some poor people (my definition is if you received a stimulus check) like to say men who flash money are insecure  - more crap. 

This is really an easy process to marry a girl from Ukraine. Men need to start looking in the mirror and make the changes needed to continuously improve themselves.  Failure can help men improve if they accept their defects and improve on them.

[KievHarmony]

Pay your $99 to EM for 6 months and make your contacts. Setup your own dates and learn to screen out scammers.

Good luck.

EM is not an insurance against scammer. It happen that my coworker is looking for a wife in FSU. He will in fact leave to Turkey to meet one woman from russia in one month, but het get a typical money for plane scam from one woman on EM. She even called him on his cell phone several times.

She was really good at her game and he was close to send money. I gave him details and told him to say to this woman: Ok I will send you an E-ticket as soon you  have your visa. He has no more news from her since....

[Misha]

Some poor people (my definition is if you received a stimulus check) like to say men who flash money are insecure  - more crap. 

I seem to have touched a nerve for some reason  :evil: What I learned is quite simple: if a woman likes you and is attracted to you, you do not have to spend a lot of money. A coffee in a nice cafe will more than suffice. It is not necessary to go to expensive restaurants and spend a lot of money.

[Gator]

These men just do not meet their expectations in a boyfriend. 

90% of the accusations of "Pro Dater" probably are explained as such, provided you are working with a reputable agency.

Years ago, I did the agency gig for one week in which I selected more than 10 women from the agency catalogue.  I recall that 2-3 women declined to meet me, citing age as the reason.  If agency women are prodaters, why would they decline the meeting?

About half of the women I met for dinner (or just tea) expressed strong interest in me, wanting to spend more time together.  The other half were indifferent.  Polite, yet still indifferent.  Only one went into a "pro dater" mode.

Too many men just think showing up will seal the deal.

A man may believe in such hype for his first couple of dates; however, to continue to believe this hype means he can not read women.

[Gator]

I seem to have touched a nerve for some reason  :evil: What I learned is quite simple: if a woman likes you and is attracted to you, you do not have to spend a lot of money. A coffee in a nice cafe will more than suffice. It is not necessary to go to expensive restaurants and spend a lot of money.

I agree with that.  Limiting a meeting to only "coffee and cake" is recommended for a first meeting. 

After the first meeting, a man should be himself with regard to dining.   If I am in a FSU city I try not to dine alone.  Nor do I want to eat insipid food.  I would much prefer to dine at a nice restaurant with an interesting woman than eat at the Moo Moo.  And life is too short to drink bad wine.  Nevertheless, I do avoid the "high end" restaurants as these are overrated and overpriced in the FSU. 

[groovlstk]

There are plenty of pro daters out there who are married or have serious local BFs. In whatever manner western guys may come up short in they eyes of such women, it's a blessing. Better to be taken for a free dinner than end up falling for trash.

I would much prefer to dine at a nice restaurant with an interesting woman than eat at the Moo Moo.  And life is too short to drink bad wine.  Nevertheless, I do avoid the "high end" restaurants as these are overrated and overpriced in the FSU. 

I love Moo Moo. 

[Misha]

I would much prefer to dine at a nice restaurant with an interesting woman than eat at the Moo Moo.  And life is too short to drink bad wine.  Nevertheless, I do avoid the "high end" restaurants as these are overrated and overpriced in the FSU. 

Exactly. I believe that a man should not be going to a fancier restaurant than he would normally frequent. Dining with a second person at a restaurant that you would have gone too anyways is not a big deal. I would pay for friends if I invited them out to a restaurant and simply enjoy their company without complaining. IMHO, complaints of "pro dating" come out when men spend a lot more than they would normally spend to impress a woman who is not interested in them. They hope that the hot 10 will lust after them after them after eating at a 5-star restaurant. It doesn't work that way I am afraid. Dating is like playing the slot machines: don't spend the money if you don't care to lose it, and don't whine afterward if you spent a fortune and did not win the jackpot.

[ECOCKS]

EM is not an insurance against scammer. It happen that my coworker is looking for a wife in FSU. He will in fact leave to Turkey to meet one woman from russia in one month, but het get a typical money for plane scam from one woman on EM. She even called him on his cell phone several times.

She was really good at her game and he was close to send money. I gave him details and told him to say to this woman: Ok I will send you an E-ticket as soon you  have your visa. He has no more news from her since....

Pay your $99 to EM for 6 months and make your contacts. Setup your own dates and learn to screen out scammers.

Good luck.

Never said they were [insurance against a scammer]. They are just the best ones out there in terms of knowing how much you're going to spend on the front end and not getting trapped in translation costs and the like.

Large numbers of women, good to very good geographic diversity and plenty of space for profile setups and explanations.

[ECOCKS]

I do not buy the professional dater crap.  Men who think these women are professionally daters probably have flaws and need to work on improvement of themselves.  These men just do not meet their expectations in a boyfriend.  Which is ok.  Top girls in agencies can pick meetings from up to 40 guys a week if they want in person.  If your a man who dates attractive young woman in your home country, than go after top girls.  If not, be careful or you will end up in trouble down the road.

What city did you go to and agency?  What was ages of girls compared to you?  Do you meet their income level request - In Ukraine be careful of any girl who says financially secure?  Every agency owner I have met in person says that is a man welloff. However, on RWD many people tell me that is not true.  I think the agency owners know more. 

Men need to be prince charming and impress.  Too many men just think showing up will seal the deal.  Buying a meal is not flashing money.  In USA when you take a girl out you normally eat.  No different in Ukraine. 

Some poor people (my definition is if you received a stimulus check) like to say men who flash money are insecure - more crap. 

This is really an easy process to marry a girl from Ukraine. Men need to start looking in the mirror and make the changes needed to continuously improve themselves.  Failure can help men improve if they accept their defects and improve on them.

I don't necessarily believe in "professional" daters other than those who are low-level scammers willing to meet face-to-face. Then again, I don't know how some of the agencies might be running the same group of girls in front of tour groups.

I do believe there are serial daters on some sites (like EM) who enjoy this sort of round-robin dating with various men. I met a couple who indicated they have dates 2-3 times a week with different guys. They are regularly dating, enjoy the attention, seem willing to engage in casual sex with some guys and not with others. My sense is that this supplements their income and has evolved into a lifestyle for some of these gals. Maybe that is their way of "shopping" and, as mentioned above, trying to watch for the man who fulfills their expectations. No different than some AW you see at your office or in the same bar week after week who have dated a few of your friends and [God Forbid!] "slept around" a bit. No big deal except that after a time, it becomes a fine line between promiscuity and searching for that special guy.

I have always advised guys to weed out the scammers quickly and one of the best tools is the personal contact, followed by normal life activity. Taking her to Concorde may impress her but few guys I have met over here have the ability to sustain that lifestyle. When she gets back to the US she will be wondering why the Mayor and two billionaires aren't frequenting the Shari's (substitute your fav hangout) you like for your morning coffee. Eating at elite places in the FSU puts you near the elite, don't try it unless Angelina and Brad are expected at your wedding (you know what I mean here).

[KievHarmony]

Never said they were [insurance against a scammer]. They are just the best ones out there in terms of knowing how much you're going to spend on the front end and not getting trapped in translation costs and the like.

Large numbers of women, good to very good geographic diversity and plenty of space for profile setups and explanations.

Try lucky lovers if you are looking for what you described, it is even less expensive. The ratio email/woman is definitely too high on EM. Why to go hunting to a crowded place when you get some relatively unexplored and safe territory ?

[Faux Pas]

There are plenty of pro daters out there who are married or have serious local BFs. In whatever manner western guys may come up short in they eyes of such women, it's a blessing. Better to be taken for a free dinner than end up falling for trash

.

I don't necessarily believe in "professional" daters other than those who are low-level scammers willing to meet face-to-face. Then again, I don't know how some of the agencies might be running the same group of girls in front of tour groups.

I do believe there are serial daters on some sites (like EM) who enjoy this sort of round-robin dating with various men. I met a couple who indicated they have dates 2-3 times a week with different guys. They are regularly dating, enjoy the attention, seem willing to engage in casual sex with some guys and not with others. My sense is that this supplements their income and has evolved into a lifestyle for some of these gals. Maybe that is their way of "shopping" and, as mentioned above, trying to watch for the man who fulfills their expectations. No different than some AW you see at your office or in the same bar week after week who have dated a few of your friends and [God Forbid!] "slept around" a bit. No big deal except that after a time, it becomes a fine line between promiscuity and searching for that special guy.

There are quite a larger number of these than some people are willing to acknowledge. Many have FSU BFs and even in some cases husbands. I would guess in most all cases the lady is looking for the BBD (bigger better deal).

It should be noted there are quite a few men who have made dozens and dozens of WMVM trips. They could also be classified as serial daters. I have a few friends here in America who have this problem also with local women.

[GoodOlBoy]

Exactly. I believe that a man should not be going to a fancier restaurant than he would normally frequent....

I understand what you are saying Misha, BUT...What if you are in a place like Siberia, where, well let's say "expensive" restaurants are few and far between (no offense ladies)....what to do?

I kind of agree with GATOR. I like going out to nice restaurants here in Miami, definitely not McDonald's.

I guess what I am trying to say (without offending any RW here on the forum) a nice restaurant in Miami, if found in Siberia would probably be considered extravagant.

So in your opinion, given this situation I just described, what is the correlation between "expensive" restaurants in Siberia and a "scammer"??


GOB

[Misha]

I understand what you are saying Misha, BUT...What if you are in a place like Siberia, where, well let's say "expensive" restaurants are few and far between (no offense ladies)....what to do?

GOB,

I have been to small and midsized cities in the Russian North, the Urals, the Russian Far East. I have yet to be in one Russian city (with let's say more than 200,000 inhabitants) where there wasn't some variety in terms of restaurants. Sure, you might not have the 5-star restaurants with the fresh lobster flown in, but you will have at minimum a few very expensive restaurants, a few middle-of-the-range restaurants and a number of much cheaper restaurants and cafes. If a guy wants to spend a fortune, he could always fly her in from Siberia to Moscow for a meal, but that is not my recommended approach to dating  :evil:

Misha

[Gator]

I love Moo Moo. 

And why does Baskins and Robbins have so many different flavors?

[ECOCKS]

.

There are quite a larger number of these than some people are willing to acknowledge. Many have FSU BFs and even in some cases husbands. I would guess in most all cases the lady is looking for the BBD (bigger better deal).

It should be noted there are quite a few men who have made dozens and dozens of WMVM trips. They could also be classified as serial daters. I have a few friends here in America who have this problem also with local women.

I agree FP.

The distinction I am trying to make is that I don't think that many are doing it as their primary means of support occupation. My belief is that some agencies keep a cadre of assorted beauties who attend their events for good PR and photo opps, but that a sizeable number of the ones on the websites are using it the way Americans use eHarmony, Matchmaker, lava, etc. Which is exactly the way I used EM and why I wouldn't use one of those which make you buy each email, translation, flowers, gifts, etc.

Yes I am aware that a few are married, many (a great many) have BF's or multiple relationships going on. How is that different from the gals at a honky tonk like Gilly's, Chili's near your office, that new secretary in the breakroom, the little sisters at your frat house and even the new divorce' who joined your church this weekend? Lots of women have BF's, your goal is to become one and then the only one, or is it?

[Faux Pas]

I agree FP.

The distinction I am trying to make is that I don't think that many are doing it as their primary means of support occupation. My belief is that some agencies keep a cadre of assorted beauties who attend their events for good PR and photo opps, but that a sizeable number of the ones on the websites are using it the way Americans use eHarmony, Matchmaker, lava, etc. Which is exactly the way I used EM and why I wouldn't use one of those which make you buy each email, translation, flowers, gifts, etc.

Yes I am aware that a few are married, many (a great many) have BF's or multiple relationships going on. How is that different from the gals at a honky tonk like Gilly's, Chili's near your office, that new secretary in the breakroom, the little sisters at your frat house and even the new divorce' who joined your church this weekend. Lots of women have BF's, your goal is to become one and then the only one, or is it?

You my friend are preaching to the choir. That is the goal to be the one and only for most of us. groove made a very valid point though, that many of these girls do equate to trailer trash. For those there will never be a one and only. What say you?