Professional daters

[Faux Pas]

I understand what you are saying Misha, BUT...What if you are in a place like Siberia, where, well let's say "expensive" restaurants are few and far between (no offense ladies)....what to do?

I kind of agree with GATOR. I like going out to nice restaurants here in Miami, definitely not McDonald's.

I guess what I am trying to say (without offending any RW here on the forum) a nice restaurant in Miami, if found in Siberia would probably be considered extravagant.

So in your opinion, given this situation I just described, what is the correlation between "expensive" restaurants in Siberia and a "scammer"??


GOB

You made a very good point GOB but, what do you do in a scenario where you see a restaurant you wish to go. For the lady the restaurant is one she had never visited or if she did only for a cocktail and leave because she or her friends and/or company couldn't or wouldn't afford a meal. You peruse the menu and see it's very affordable. Do you take her in and show her a wonderful meal or do you walk down to the cafeteria or McDonalds for fear that she may expect expensive meals from this day forward? 

[Sculpto]

Gator why are you picking on Moo Moo?  Not that the food is some kind of gastronomical experience, but, it is decent and not too expensive.  besides, I noticed LOTS of very nice looking ladies eating there alone or with an equally nice looking lady friend.  I also noticed TONS of couples eating at Moo Moo.  It would seem a rather acceptable first date for an honest woman.  Shoot, a Shwarma on the street would also be a good indicator in my eyes... as would a blini in those blini carriages..

But, I kind of agree with what Kiev has said.  I don't really see anything wrong with serial dating if the lady happens to be picky.  Wow, a FSUW that is picky about who she will marry?!?!?!  Could it be true?  I think a lot of guys, like Kiev said, who later complain about pro daters are simply dating out of their league.  And, they have bought into agency hype and think they can just show up and walk away with the wife they bought.  When that doesn't work out they start pointing fingers.

[Sculpto]

Here is a funny point about McD...

When I was in Donetsk my friends kept bugging me to go to McD.. they liked it.  It was special for them.  I finally relented and they were really happy about it.  Go figure...

[ECOCKS]

Anyone who drops all their filters and just picks a gal from their profile pic thinking there is no "trash" in the FSU is a true-blue, dyed-in-the-wool IDIOT.

People are people no matter where you go. There are good ones, bad ones, honest ones, honorable ones, the list goes on and on.

People can AND DO get ripped off in the FSU.

Con men AND WOMEN exist everywhere and are especially prevalent when a unique opportunity exists.

Some women are social climbers, gold-diggers if you will and the "east" is a bit more status-conscious than much of the west.

The list goes on, it's called life, don't quit living it and start thinking you got it licked cause we all end up in the same earthly place.

Some folks here are looking for short-term, shallow, serial relationships. So are some of them.

"Trailer trash is as trailer trash does."

[Sculpto]

ecocks.. for once we agree.  good post

[ECOCKS]

ecocks.. for once we agree.  good post

Oddly, my scorecard showed 3......

[Faux Pas]

Oddly, my scorecard showed 3......

Blind squirrels do find the occasional nut 

[HiTech]

I believe there is a large group of women that are looking for a man, but after a few different men with the agency , the woman realizes that even if they know they will not be interested in a man, they will still go out for dinner for the simple reason of enjoying a good meal and what ever else the man wishes to offer. I.E. Bolling, movies,theater .......

This is a semi pro, I.E. they are looking for a man, but also using the system.

HiTech

[Faux Pas]

I believe there is a large group of women that are looking for a man, but after a few different men with the agency , the woman realizes that even if they know they will not be interested in a man, they will still go out for dinner for the simple reason of enjoying a good meal and what ever else the man wishes to offer. I.E. Bolling, movies,theater .......

This is a semi pro, I.E. they are looking for a man, but also using the system.

HiTech

That would not necessarily be bad women. As long as their mind were still open to meeting a man, any man for a lifetime relationship and they pursued it. I think we were discussing those who are only out for the treats  i.e. dinner or a possible BBD

[Sculpto]

That would not necessarily be bad women. As long as their mind were still open to meeting a man, any man for a lifetime relationship and they pursued it. I think we were discussing those who are only out for the treats  i.e. dinner or a possible BBD

Well how much of that comes down to perception on the part of the guy? 

[kievstar]

I probably did not use the best words as of course there are scammers.  But wanted to stir the pot a little.

But the number of scammers at least in Ukraine is not as high as people tend to claim. I met a couple.  Some girls called me a scammer. 

I remember one girl I showed up 30 minutes late (just could not find the restaurant and no phone) and she was decked out. I hate being late.  I did not like her as she told me she liked sports and fast cars (just not my preference).  So I called the tea meeting short and as I walked her out of the mall in maiden square (Kiev) she asked me if we could look at sun glasses.  I did not know about RWD back than so did not know what was next.  So she picked a pair of sunglasses and told me to help with money.  I told her that she did not look good in them and should find another pair.  Soon she realized that  I was not going to pay and stormed off. 

RM tell me if you do not want to buy something telling a girl she does not look good in something is a good trick to keep you from looking greedy.  Later that day I met another girl at Felinis and guess her was sitting two tables away from us.  Same girl with a nice pair of sunglasses.  I saw her again later that night at a disco with a different guy and I was with a different girl. So I guess I am a scammer to.  I am no sex tourist and believe in no sex before marriage.  But back to first girl.  She is happily married now and not to a rich guy.  Scammer, bad girl? I think her husband, me, and many men on this board will have a different opinion.  If you visit more than one girl, are you a scammer?  if you write more than one girl at a time are you a scammer?  Have to respect the different beliefs. 

I do know that many women in agencies date many local and foreign guys at sametime.  There just dating.  When prince charming comes along, things change.  They get serious and marry.  No different than the 30 - 40 year old single men going to Ukraine looking for a wife. Or 20 year old men dating several girls.  Its casual dating.  If your serious, you put a ring on the finger and ask parents for permission.  No ring than your not serious yet.  There are many men dating women in Ukraine and a wife in USA.  When you future wife's parents have your picture in their apartment than it tends to be serious. 

I think Gators 10% number makes sense.  Gator is also a good catch for a lady and has a good eye about relationships.  So many men will have much higher rejection rate and use the scammer tag.

I will say this again.  If you use Elena models in Kiev or your lady is listed on Elena models in Kiev.  Be very very careful. Does Elena even visit the local agencies ever?   I run into a lot of sex tourists - sorry there more interesting to talk to in airport / plane than the serious men chasing a wife. Sex tourists love EM as many hookers are listed on there and they do not have to go through a hooker agency.  Facebook is also getting popular and many EM girls are also on facebook.

I know guys like EM as it is easy to use and cheap.  But it allows the English speaking hookers direct contact with men. 

By the way Anastiaweb worked for me.  My trick was use anasita web to look at pictures than find the girl in a honest local agency. Than fly right away as I do not write well or talk well on the phone.  I am more of a game day performer.

On spending money on a date.  If it is lunch time we have lunch, if dinner time we have dinner, it it is late evening we go to concert, disco, etc.  If it is between lunch and dinner it is tea time or champagne.  If I want a cheap lunch we do cheap.  If  I want an expensive lunch than it is expensive.  First dates I did what I would normally do.  I do not like eating alone. There are very few expensive restaurants in Kiev and I never had a girl tell me to take me to one of them.  I met a lot of girls in Kiev as I lived there.

Men can control the date but do not be greedy.  First impressions can ruin things.  Spending money can ruin things.  Need to be confident and charming.   I did find the dating thing easy in Ukraine as the girls were always grabbing your phone and putting their numbers into to make sure they called you after first date.   I am sure the guys who currently seeking a girl know what I am talking about.  For my wifes friends who send this stuff to her go ahead she knows I am a good man.  It may ruin your friendship with her.

[Misha]

RM tell me if you do not want to buy something telling a girl she does not look good in something is a good trick to keep you from looking greedy. 

Would not have bought the sunglasses either. Did not hear this, but then again, I would have cut and run from any woman whining aboug "greedy" man. I did not buy my wife any present until 2 months after meeting each other and seeing each other daily.

[Faux Pas]

Well how much of that comes down to perception on the part of the guy? 

All of it I suppose. Which would explain why a lot of women get tagged with the GTG moniker. I'm really not one to say as I have never done a VM trip. Probably a good thing as I would tend to piss many of them off. I am always able and willing to spend my last dollar on just about anyone but, only if "I" want to.

[Gator]

Gator why are you picking on Moo Moo?  

I know of only one Moo Moo, on Prospekt Mira in Moscow.  Went there a few times when we dined with the kids.  It's OK!

Yet not far away is a French Bistro with good European food, ordered from a menu rather than a cafeteria, better ambiance including open air tables, espresso, and far better looking RW than at the Moo Moo (maybe they are just dressed better).   The price:  maybe 40% more than the Moo Moo, excluding wine which I never have at the Moo Moo.   In center of Moscow, the same restaurant would be twice the price if not more.

[Sculpto]

I dont remember the area where I went into the MooMoo, but, it was a huge place.  The cafe line was probably about 100 people long.. 300 or more tables.  Lots of all kinds of people.. beutiful, average and some big ones that could compete with average AWs.. I had the distinct feeling if I "worked the crowd" I could have met some very nice ladies in the MooMoo.  The place was crowded.. two ladies sitting at a table for four.. easy entry and "wow" you american?"

[JR]

ecocks.. for once we agree.  good post

That did NOT just happen! ! !

[ECOCKS]

I dont remember the area where I went into the MooMoo, but, it was a huge place.  The cafe line was probably about 100 people long.. 300 or more tables.  Lots of all kinds of people.. beutiful, average and some big ones that could compete with average AWs.. I had the distinct feeling if I "worked the crowd" I could have met some very nice ladies in the MooMoo.  The place was crowded.. two ladies sitting at a table for four.. easy entry and "wow" you american?"

This works VERY well in Kyiv also. Best location for this strategy is the Puzata Hata in Kontraktova Ploscha. Weekdays lunch or weekends lunch and dinner times.

[ECOCKS]

Try lucky lovers if you are looking for what you described, it is even less expensive. The ratio email/woman is definitely too high on EM. Why to go hunting to a crowded place when you get some relatively unexplored and safe territory ?

LL may be an okay site for some but I noticed a significant percentage are in Russian, especially in the lower portion of their profiles. A turn-off for me. My Russian simply isn't that good.

It does save about $15-20 versus EM on a 6 month membership and the women largely seemed to have submitted "real" photos much of the time (watermarking is distracting though). I found little or no difficulty in setting up contacts and dates through EM so saw no issue with the ratios of M to F. To each their own though.

[HeSearches]

I’m sure there are many girls in the agency who are honest about their intentions, however.

The problem you have in a situation like this is sorting out which women are in this for the money, and which women are sincerely trying to find a man?   In the U.S, I've never subscribed to the notion that a paid dating service could do a better job of finding a woman for me than I could.   I don't see how it's any different in the FSU.   While I have never been there, I found free information about places to meet women in the FSU.   Universities, on the bus, shops, and many other places.   

I can't understand anyone wanting to employ a service to set up a date for them unless they were on a tight schedule and didn't think would have time to meet someone for a date.   If you have time, there are lots of places to meet women and you don't have to pay anything. 

The unfortunate reality in all this is that in my experience you always meet the best women when you aren't trying to meet a woman.   You aren't looking seriously looking and in hunting mode.   That's the time when they happen. 

If it was me, I would take my time and leave a lot of time open on a trip to let things happen.   I would plan on having fun with or without a woman.  It will happen if it was meant to be.