Financial status - RW interpretations

[Whynot]

Hi there -

There's no doubt (for both sexes) that it is desirable to be with a partner that is financially 'secure'. 

But, one person's definition may be very different from another's.

I've seen a range of different expressions used in profiles and I'd be very interested if there is any commonly held RW views on what 'Financially solvent' and 'Generous' mean.

Many thanks!

WN?



 

[ECOCKS]

Advice:

Remember the language problem. Generous may be the word she thinks is equal to good-hearted or supportive of their family. Some of them base what they put in the profile on the agency's recommendations and others' profile statements. "Secure" seems a reasonable translation for "able to support their family." "Stable" may well mean you don't have a drinking or anger problem. It's a different culture.

Talk with them, pay attention to what they say and how they live, assess their language ability, meet them face-to-face before "falling hopelessly in love," observe their shopping habits and consider their dreams/plans. You'll have to push on that part for specifics, many of them are unsure about planning horizons of any length and they often lack an understanding of the options the west has, particularly with regard to education and career development.

Folks this isn't that hard. Few people deliberately set out looking for trailer trash, yet one man's trashy slut is another man's pedestal-mounted domestic goddess. Decide your expectations and don't be blinded by a body or a trophy image.

[groovlstk]

This is something you need to establish through communication. Many profiles list only the barest of info, some contain boilerplate stuff written by agency employees (and not the girl you wish to meet).

That said, I'd steer clear of anyone who lists "generous" as a requirement in a mate as, at least in my experience, this means financial generosity exclusively and not the generosity of spirit you may claim to possess 

Depending on whom you are writing to, understanding of finances will likely be very, very different than what you have come to expect when dating locals. Avoid using terms like upper/lower or simply middle class to describe your lifestyle or giving a financial range of your salary, as she has no frame of reference to understand what this means.

Probably the most common quote I hear from guys who are starting out goes something like this: "I'm not rich but I live comfortably." This may be adequate for your Match.com profile when dating locals, but you need to put in a lot more effort if you want to set accurate expectations when dating in the FSU.

[SANDRO43]

Hi there -
There's no doubt (for both sexes) that it is desirable to be with a partner that is financially 'secure'. 
But, one person's definition may be very different from another's.
I've seen a range of different expressions used in profiles and I'd be very interested if there is any commonly held RW views on what 'Financially solvent' and 'Generous' mean.

See also the Russglish Glossary(www.russianwomendiscussion.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Russglish_Glossary) in our RWDpedia .

[Ade]

Also remember that a lot of RW have a totally different view on debt to us in the west. A house mortgage is seen by some as a horrendous burden and almost a sign of poverty! My fiancée tells me that she has seen threads on RW forums where women talk about looking exclusively for men with absolutely no debt.

[Misha]

My fiancée tells me that she has seen threads on RW forums where women talk about looking exclusively for men with absolutely no debt.

They are free to look, but there is no guarantee that they will find what they are looking for. A man with a house and no mortgage would be quite rare in most cases.

But, it is important to discuss these things a priori. Better to avoid women with unrealistic expectations or expectations that you cannot hope to meet.

[ECOCKS]

Yeah, my wife is shocked at the level of debt we have on our new house. She still doesn't understand why if we have that much money in a bank account we didn't just write them a check.

Another good friend went through a major explosion in his relationship which nearly destroyed them. Seems she found his children's bank statements and went crazy that each had 6 digits in their trust accounts. She at first demanded that he take money back from them.

Different cultures, business environments, banking solidity and expectations.

[Mir]

SHe still doesn't understand why is we have that much money in a bank account we didn't just write them a check.

Can I ask why one should not do that?
I mean if you have the money what is the point to be in debt?

Personally I have always bought what I can afford and right now I have no debt at all, so have I done something wrong?

[groovlstk]

Can I ask why one should not do that?
I mean if you have the money what is the point to be in debt?

Personally I have always bought what I can afford and right now I have no debt at all, so have I done something wrong?

Before the economic collapse, this was a no-brainer. If you had good credit you could get a mortgage for 5-6%. If you had a good chunk of cash available, you could invest it and pretty much count on a return of about 10%.

Additionally, you get quite a few tax breaks for carrying a mortgage, which will return a % of the interest you're paying.

[GoodOlBoy]

If you had a good chunk of cash available, you could invest it and pretty much count on a return of about 10%.

And that is one of the reasons the GoodOl' USA is in trouble right now.

We were all living in one great BIG ponzi scheme!!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme


GOB

[KievHarmony]

The main point about debt is the difference regarding loans between USA/Canada and FSU. The credit rate in North America for a mortgage is around 5-7%, in FSU it is more close to 20%.

The debt impact on one family budget is not the same in FSU than here.

[ECOCKS]

Above are many of the reasons. The tax deduction being one of the most important. Others include having cash flexibility for business investment opportunities. As for mainstream investment, even with a 4.25% mortgage, it is tough to find solid investments that pay more than that. Still, different people have different levels of risk tolerance.

However, overall the biggest reason is one of those Russian mysteries - planning for the unexpected. Yes I could write a check for the house (forget for a minute liquidation costs and all) but then what if something catastrophic happened? A family medical emergency? Total disability of a family member? Loss of job, business or other income? Despite the press, a significant portion of America tries to maintain a cushion for hard times.

Still another reason is more relevant to younger persons (not me obviously) who are leveraging their earnings power in the future to have a satisfactory residence in the present. There was/is nothing inherently wrong with doing this, the problem became that the people who build, sell and finance the homes simply got out of hand in "pushing" this credit to buy homes. Down payments were dropped as low as $0, risk factors were being doctored, people learned to do things which artifically changed their credit ratings without changing their real ability to pay and then the market burst, prices dropped quickly and people learned about being upside down on a home. This is what down payments were supposed to prevent. I fault any banker who dropped under a 20% requirement on a loan that wasn't secured with other assets than the one being purchased.

[Faux Pas]

It's all a matter of how one prefers to manage their money. Some prefer to finance their furniture, others their cars and yet others their homes. Those who have lived through a personal financial catastrophe may wish to finance everything or nothing at all. Neither way is good or bad and can only be gauged on the returns at the end of the day. If your rate of interest whether lending or borrowing is advantageous, take advantage of it.

[Doll]

Hi there -

There's no doubt (for both sexes) that it is desirable to be with a partner that is financially 'secure'. 

But, one person's definition may be very different from another's.

I've seen a range of different expressions used in profiles and I'd be very interested if there is any commonly held RW views on what 'Financially solvent' and 'Generous' mean.

Many thanks!

WN?



 

I think that "financially solvent" could mean "capable to pay" (has enough money to pay the bills and what ever needs to be paid), "generous" equals "not greedy"

[ECOCKS]

Doll:

The problem is somewhat in your answer. What is your definition of "greedy"?

Are you trying to say, "spends money only on oneself" by any chance?

Mostly I (and I think most Americans) use "greedy" when describing someone who tries to charge the most they possibly can or will not share with others. However, while siblings may use it among themselves when discussing cookies and things, I don't think many of us use it between husband and wife or business partners.

"Generous", to me, usually means giving outside the immediate family.

Both of these are probably encountering problems due to the whole "our" money rather than "your" or "my" money concept which most western marriages regard as the normal situation.

If the money is truly "ours" how can my wife ask me not to be "greedy"?

Similarly, how can I be "generous" if the money is already "ours"?

I continually tell my wife that I want my MIL to have one of our ATM cards but she is worried that Mama might do something that makes me mad it seems like.

Sigh......

[Whynot]

Doll/Ecocks -

"financially solvent" = "capable to pay" makes sense to me

"generous"  - my instinct here would be an expectation about you spending/buying things for her.  But interesting point about spending outside the immediate family.  I know that gifts are expected on visits etc to the family and probably for christmas etc - but would this be the case on an ongoing basis after marriage (depending on the financial wherewithall of the extended family)?

WN?

[ECOCKS]

That's an interesting question.

I have the feeling that despite all the propaganda about communism, the concept of private ownership is,  ironically, often taken much more seriously in this area of the world than in the west. Yes, I know some FSUM come home with that paycheck and give it to the wife to administer. Yet, from many of the women's attitudes/demeanors there is a suspicion that there is quite a bit of that, "I made it so I will decide what you and the kids get, the rest is MINE." sort of attitude from the men...and from a few of the women.

I think of the FSUW I have met, the stories heard (from several perspectives) and those looks on some of their faces when talking about money and it seems that feeling gets a bit stronger. I noticed that when dating and in listening to other expats who were married to FSUW, The women ALWAYS seem to be asking for shopping money and struggle with a mindset that most WM grew up with [I think],

[kievstar]

House debt is OK if your not close to retirement.  But when your 50 years old you should have little house debt unless you want to work to 70.  This is basic financial planning that has been around since 1980 (I was to young before this to remember) but people have forgotten about.  People who expect 10% returns better be financial experts.  5% growth is what you should count on with 3% inflation. Need to be conservative.  If you get 10% great.  You should always pay 30-50% cash for house.  I rented at first and saved the cash for first house.

In the USA if you do not make much money you can deduct mortgage interest (it does disappear if your not even a high earner - AMT tax).  So if your paying 5.5% mortgage interest you can deduct the interest portion which is higher at beginning of mortgage. 

If you follow basic 101 financial planning from the 1980's no problems.  If your business adviser is from Harvard or Wall Street do not listen to them as they are trained on scammer techniques.  But it was a great ride for many of them but the ride is fast on the way down.   

Also, Cramer on television.  Be careful.  He gets golden handshakes on the side to say things to raise stocks. 

[Doll]

The problem is somewhat in your answer. What is your definition of "greedy"?
 
"Generous", to me, usually means giving outside the immediate family.

ECOCKS ,what it means for you doesn't matter- I tried to explain the OP what the women imply. I am a RW and know what they are looking for- the man who is not cheap and will be spending money on his wife. I am talking of spending ON the family. These words can mean something different to you or anybody in this country but it doesn't matter- this is what these RW are talking of.

[Lily]

Doll:

The problem is somewhat in your answer. What is your definition of "greedy"?

Are you trying to say, "spends money only on oneself" by any chance?

Mostly I (and I think most Americans) use "greedy" when describing someone who tries to charge the most they possibly can or will not share with others. However, while siblings may use it among themselves when discussing cookies and things, I don't think many of us use it between husband and wife or business partners.

"Generous", to me, usually means giving outside the immediate family.

Both of these are probably encountering problems due to the whole "our" money rather than "your" or "my" money concept which most western marriages regard as the normal situation.

If the money is truly "ours" how can my wife ask me not to be "greedy"?

Similarly, how can I be "generous" if the money is already "ours"?

I continually tell my wife that I want my MIL to have one of our ATM cards but she is worried that Mama might do something that makes me mad it seems like.

Sigh......

Many Russians understand 'greedy' as a synonym for 'thrifty', someone who is not willing to spend money easily but prefers to keep and save money. "Generous' may mean the man who is willing and even enjoys spending money freely without thinking a lot about how reasonable is this spending. This behavior looks like being historically admired in Russia. Probably some women who want a generous man mean by this that he should be spending on her pleasures a big part of his income.

[Bored1]

Problem is AM think the know RW but they do not.  RM do not know RW.  M do not know what W want.  M sometimes do not know what M want and W do not know what W want. 

The AM men who write like they know what I want and think are so far wrong it is not a shock they still look for any W let alone a RW.

 

[Gator]

Problem is AM think the know RW but they do not.  RM do not know RW.  M do not know what W want.  M sometimes do not know what M want and W do not know what W want. 

The AM men who write like they know what I want and think are so far wrong it is not a shock they still look for any W let alone a RW.

 

 

Many AW feel the same.

[Gator]

I have discussed the term "greedy" with a few RW.  My definition:

Greedy -  thrifty (as Lily said) plus a) what little a man spends is mostly on himself and/or b) when he buys he selects the cheapest. 

RW are long on pride and short on cash.  A "greedy" man makes RW feel like a beggar, something they abhor.  Never make your RW beg.  Actually, my experience is that RW will not beg and instead defiantly do without, meanwhile indelibly thinking less of the man.

The term "greedy" is not so important about little gifts.  Rather, it is about whether a man will take care of his family.  During Russia's economic crises of the late 1990s, some men did not make enough money to support a family so they simply abandoned them, without alimony or child support.  This created a severe problem for single moms whose earning power did not equal men's.  The story was told to me frequently among the RW I dated (single moms, age 30-40).

Related to this is "financial stability/security," a term mentioned by some women.  RW have been through bad times and they appreciate men who have a steady income, especially those who are not "greedy."  This is far more about perception than reality, because a typical RW would have trouble comprehending our financial data.  And any data you provide them would be viewed skeptically. 

The term "strong" man is used frequently.  I do not perceive it as sexual submission to macho behavior, although that can happen.  Rather, it has an economic aspect.  Given their history, RW are not as optimistic as Americans about life and particularly the economy.  RW view a strong, confident, clever man as someone who would be able to navigate around the problems that life invariably will experience. 

[ECOCKS]

Problem is AM think the know RW but they do not.  RM do not know RW.  M do not know what W want.  M sometimes do not know what M want and W do not know what W want. 

The AM men who write like they know what I want and think are so far wrong it is not a shock they still look for any W let alone a RW.

 

 

[ECOCKS]

Thanks Lily, that's what I figured. Problems with translation/usage are common enough and it's funny how the subset of FSUW dating and romantic jargon has gotten to the point where we could have our own little glossaries. Reminds me of the special interest section at Barnes and Noble or those little How to Speak Southern books from years ago.

Doll, what it means for me DOES matter. The OP asked and I am telling him what I have found. Your answers helped illustrate the difficulties in translation which WE experience in deciphering what our women want. It's good to keep a clear picture of the potential for words to be mis-used when conversing with our wives, gf's and dates.

Gator, I would have used miserly. Thrifty has the positive implication of wisely spending as little as possible where I come from. Your example is spot on in line with the stories and my understanding of the general situation. It probably also figures into that thread about the gal wanting a sort of pre-nup to protect her during marriage bny explaining his requirement to provide for her.

As for STRONG that is one which is interpreted differently by us when we hear them using it and it's good to keep their difference in mind. STABLE is basically the same in both cultures.