"Neutral Territory"

[ECOCKS]

Hmmmm, well my situation was a little bit different I guess. Since I was living there it was clear from the beginning that I was "dating" for the first month after I met her. I told her at about the 2 week mark that I was not dating anyone new but considered her and another woman as the only women who I found interesting enough to continue dating. After a couple of more weeks, I let her know that I was planning on only dating her and that I hoped that was going to be a reciprocal arrangement. Apparently that was satisfactory for her and we mutually agreed that we were only dating each other.

[Blues Fairy]

I see nothing wrong with setting up dates with 3 or 4 persons during one's trip halfway around the world.

Neither do I, if it's a date as in "date", not as in "I'll stay in your village for a week, expecting you to take care of my travel arrangements and entertain me every day, while I meet your friends and folks and observe you in your natural environment, and if it doesn't work out I've got a couple of backup ladies lined up just in case". 

[JR]

IMO, this type of behavior (WMVM) seems self-centered, sneaky, callous and just plain rude towards the RW and seems not to take into account (or care about) her feelings in this whole process.

These same men (I take it you menat women here?) know that you are making a "commitment" to one woman and at that point there is no backup plan or backup FSU women to find in a "true" neutral site.

GOB

PULEEZ! There are men here, on this site who are with "the one" FSUW and have back-ups. Going to a nuetral meeting place means nothing in regards to the lady who meets you being the only one.

[ECOCKS]

Neither do I, if it's a date as in "date", not as in "I'll stay in your village for a week, expecting you to take care of my travel arrangements and entertain me every day, while I meet your friends and folks and observe you in your natural environment, and if it doesn't work out I've got a couple of backup ladies lined up just in case". 

That is one reason that I support the larger cities as the "base" for the visit. The guys I know who only came over to "look the gals over" seemed to do best when bringing the out-of-town girls in for a couple of days at a time. One guy even had them arriving on morning trains and leaving on evening trains sometimes (UGH! I find THAT demeaning even if they didn't know about each other).

At about the beginning of his third stage the same guy was having them go for medical exams. Reminded me of guys buying livestock at breeder's auctions (again UGH!).

[GoodOlBoy]

PULEEZ! There are men here, on this site who are with "the one" FSUW and have back-ups.

Then Sir all GoodOl'Boy has to say is: "What comes around, goes around".

Don't come crying and sniveling on RWD when a RW uses this type of "man" like a Government Mule to bring her to the GoodOl' USA and then dumps him.

RW are not stupid!

They know when they are being played and cheated on.

Remember.......RW live around Russian Men their whole lives.

RW can "smell" a rat (even an American one!).  :evil:


GOB

[JR]

Then Sir all GoodOl'Boy has to say is: "What comes around, goes around".

Don't come crying and sniveling on RWD when a RW uses this type of "man" like a Government Mule to bring her to the GoodOl' USA and then dumps him.

RW are not stupid!

They know when they are being played and cheated on.

Remember.......RW live around Russian Men their whole lives.

RW can "smell" a rat (even an American one!).  :evil:


GOB

Who said they were American? You know something we don't?

[Sculpto]

Volens-nolens

Blues.. despite any disagreeing we have done in the past, you moved up a lot in my eyes for the use of the quoted expression.  Not many know that one..  

I also agree with a lot of what you are saying in this thread.  

If the tables were turned around on me, and a virtual friend was coming to visit me for the first time, and i had to deal with all my other obligations plus be a good host.. ugh.. I would probably not make a very good impression.  

Doing a vacation for the first visit has all the previously mentioned benefits, plus, chemistry is chemistry.. its either going to exist or not, so, in the chance it does how awesome is it to have that memory of the truly romantic first meeting to cherish for the rest of smeones life?

[Sculpto]

On the other hand...

how can you ever know for sure the lady you are inviting on an expensive vacation is really into you and not really into the idea of going on an axepnsive vacation?

[OlgaH]

I told her at about the 2 week mark that I was not dating anyone new but considered her and another woman as the only women who I found interesting enough to continue dating.

Did the three of you run on a schedule or was it flexible hours?  

[Sculpto]

Did the three of you run on a schedule or was it flexible hours?  

did they know each other and compare notes?

[ECOCKS]

Well, interesting to hear of people who have never "just dated". I'm surprised really that this seems so "foreign" to some. In HS and at college I always dated one gal at a time but took a lot of kidding from friends and frat brothers for always going "steady" with one girl.

I pretty much worked out the schedule based on my open times. Some of those long park walks (did a 4 mile hike one time) cut into the time and energy available for the dinner date but things were generally pretty smooth. As I remember there were a couple of awkward moments when my now-wife would ask why we did nothing on Saturday afternoon and I only was available after 7 but we got through those times. The other gal never seemed to question my schedule until right at the very end. Tearjerker but we parted friends (I think).

[SANDRO43]

Blues.. despite any disagreeing we have done in the past, you moved up a lot in my eyes for the use of the quoted expression.  Not many know that one..  

So you're gradually getting to like her, willy-nilly ?

[OlgaH]

As I remember there were a couple of awkward moments when my now-wife would ask why we did nothing on Saturday afternoon and I only was available after 7 but we got through those times.

What did you tell her? that you were busy or being a honest man you told her you had just a date with other woman?

[Faux Pas]

Well, interesting to hear of people who have never "just dated". I'm surprised really that this seems so "foreign" to some. In HS and at college I always dated one gal at a time but took a lot of kidding from friends and frat brothers for always going "steady" with one girl.

I pretty much worked out the schedule based on my open times. Some of those long park walks (did a 4 mile hike one time) cut into the time and energy available for the dinner date but things were generally pretty smooth. As I remember there were a couple of awkward moments when my now-wife would ask why we did nothing on Saturday afternoon and I only was available after 7 but we got through those times. The other gal never seemed to question my schedule until right at the very end. Tearjerker but we parted friends (I think).

I assume they are just being facetious. I "just dated" close to 10 years in my adult life alone. Not counting college high school.  

[ECOCKS]

What did you tell her? that you were busy or being a honest man you told her you had just a date with other woman?

As I had aleady said, "I told her at about the 2 week mark that I was not dating anyone new but considered her and another woman as the only women who I found interesting enough to continue dating."

I simply said I was out on a date earlier in the day.

I can't help but wonder why this is so fascinating. Hopefully Ulysses will find this anecdotal stuff useful in formulating his strategy.

[OlgaH]

As I had aleady said, "I told her at about the 2 week mark that I was not dating anyone new but considered her and another woman as the only women who I found interesting enough to continue dating."

I simply said I was out on a date earlier in the day.

I can't help but wonder why this is so fascinating. Hopefully Ulysses will find this anecdotal stuff useful in formulating his strategy.

I don't find it to be fascinating. People are different. If a man told me "Sorry, I couldn't be with you this Sunday because I had a date with other woman" I don't think I would like to spend the next Sunday with him. But it is just me 

[Gator]

So you're gradually getting to like her, willy-nilly ?

Volens nolens was in the far cobwebs of my mind.  Had to look it up, and as Sandro playfully indicates the term is close to willy nilly, except willy nilly is really will I, nill I.  Those not born speaking English are schooling us.

[Ooooops]

Those not born speaking English are schooling us.

I do it to my husband all the time...   

[ECOCKS]

Interesting topic for the women to discuss. The guys' answers are probably pretty predictable.

I had not sensed this when skimming some of those threads where guys were giving TR's on the party circuits of both AFA and Jack's operations. You must have a real interesting opinion of both the guys AND the gals that participate in those.

Nobody I knew in Kyiv would think this is odd. I know my wife had a few dates after she and I went out the first time. I just cannot picture her sitting in her room sewing while waiting for Prince Charming to ride up and announce that she was the woman of his dreams. Among the dozen or so that I dated in Kyiv I don't know of anyone who was not an active dater in search of building a relationship with someone. Maybe things just move a lot slower out in the provincial towns (as in not SPB, Moscow, Kyiv or Odessa). The University students I know talk of their dating and search for "good boyfriends" so it could also be a generational thing to some extent. Perhaps if I talked this up some more in my wife's hometown there would be some sort of different take on this.

Sometimes I think people get a little, mmmm, caught up in this international dating thing. I can see James' excitement building before his visit for instance. There are also the 2-3 guys in the last month who were all excited over going to visit one gal and then suffered the crash when reality slammed them.

[Gator]

I did three WMVM trips.  Each time I had written a few letters and made at least a couple of calls, sometimes a lot more.  Each time my plan was to visit only one woman per city.  Twice I met more than one in the same city, and it was awkward, for me and them.  Although they knew the game and reluctantly played along, it seemed to me that they had  hoped I would be different. 

Three times the one woman I was planning to meet rejected me (two "no shows" and one clearly not interested).  It was good to have a backup plan.

My future wife, the only woman I had planned to meet in Moscow, would not make plans for the second day when I asked what should we do.  She said, "We will see."  What she was saying was, "If I like you, we will have a secind day together.  If not, paka."

By the way, I am convinced that most RW in the game have a Russian male friend, and many are corresponding with other Western men while arranging a meeting with you.  My future wife, being honest, admitted such when our relationship became serious.

[ECOCKS]

I just cannot see acceptable risk in making a first time visit of that magnitude with someone I had never met. Especially to some unknown place in a country where I did not speak the language.

It is possibly understandable for these guys who go to Kyiv and/or Moscow to find something like sightseeing or otherwise enjoy walking around when you get a no-show or two leaving a hole in your schedule for a day or so. If I had gone to almost any other place in Ukraine except Odessa each day alone would have been a major drag.

IF I had done this the hard way, I am pretty sure my style would have been much as Gator descibed. WMVF(ew) would be my acronym for the strategy.

[OlgaH]

By the way, I am convinced that most RW in the game have a Russian male friend, and many are corresponding with other Western men while arranging a meeting with you. 

I don't know if most or not... but I agree there are women and men as well who play double games and there not any guarantee that they will not continue to play such games after commitment. 

[ECOCKS]

By the way, I am convinced that most RW in the game have a Russian male friend, and many are corresponding with other Western men while arranging a meeting with you.  My future wife, being honest, admitted such when our relationship became serious.

I agree this is the normal way of it, except maybe about the local boyfriends. I would stop short of saying "most" and just say "many" of the serious ones do.

[Gator]

I don't know if most or not... but I agree there are women and men as well who play double games and there not any guarantee that they will not continue to play such games after commitment. 

Once I committed fully, one of my many joys was to NOT look at the "new RW of the week" listed with agencies.   One measure of love is to not think about anyone else.  

That's why a man should spend enough time with his woman to know her before marriage.  And then give her even more love, trust and respect as he gave before marriage.  

Besides, in the words of Donna Pedro, if a man wants a guarantee, he should buy a toaster.

[Gator]

I agree this is the normal way of it, except maybe about the local boyfriends. I would stop short of saying "most" and just say "many" of the serious ones do.

I would not label these RM as boyfriends.   Boyfriend suggests the two have a serious relationship that could progress to marriage, and I don't think that is the actual case with "many" RW.  A RM boyfriend would never allow his woman to be meeting foreigners, unless she is scamming them.