Staying Grounded

[JR]

I am going to post a series of questions. I pose these questions so that I might learn from the various answers. When I married I knew going in that I shouldn't. There were signs as big a billboards which I chose to ignore. One of my favorite saying is, "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see." I no longer refuse to see. But I am somewhat reluctant. I am going to search myself inside and get to the root of whats bugging me. I am not at peace with what I am doing. If I can't make peace with it then I shall have to walk away...

I will pose simple questions and flesh them out as the responses force me to question myself or to defend my position.

This is my first question. It is by no means the highest priority but it just seems to keep floating to the top so I may as well start there.

Why not an American woman? You can insert your own nationality, I'm just using mine.

[Ade]

Why not an American woman? You can insert your own nationality, I'm just using mine.

There is no reason why it shouldn't be a local woman. If people put in the same amount of time, effort and money into finding someone in their own country that they put into finding someone in the FSU I'm sure that at least 80% to 90% could find their better half. (of course these need to be normal guys and not the desperate dross that wends its way to the FSU to take advantage of the economic disparity) Even if you're into the FSUW "look" there are plenty of them running around in your own country - go talk to Mishenka; some are recent immigrants others will be of FSU heritage.

As for you; are you sure you are ready to get married again? I can't remember when your marriage broke up but it took me a good 6 years before I was truly ready for a long term commitment again although I didn't realize that until after those years had passed.

[Caddydaddy]

JR, I think the key is in your statement:
 

When I married I knew going in that I shouldn't. "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see."

You got the wrong woman and the strange is, you knew it! I did same. I learned same as you.
I too said never again. I started my search locally with parship, looked over the pond with eharmony, already contacted an American-European  agency, but nothing clever turned out.
Why? As soon as I saw signs which bothered me about a woman, I stopped, because I tried to keep my eyes open and refused case-related. Not again same mistake! Finally I decided to expand my search to the FSU, which I first never considered. Seems there are more women available, including all that hurdles one has to deal with in this process.
For me it doesn't really matter which nationality my future soulmate/friend/partner/wife has. But it matters very much that my heart, my belly and my mind say YES to her and same should happen at her side. If not – forget it… as we learned…
A very good friend of mine, a married American woman from MT btw, said it simple: Follow your heart! She is right.
And in this process of searching one needs a big heap of luck to find that special one, it is not predictable when SHE will show up, but it needs action to find.

just a few thoughts from Caddydaddy

[Ade]

Here's a thought; all those "issues" that some men see with local women may very well exist in the FSUW they are pursuing but they are hidden initially because of language barriers. Men shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that those very same issues which repel them at home don't exist elsewhere.

[Shadow]

Why not a local woman ? Because MrsShadow was born in Russia. 
I never excluded any country or city in my search.

[Sculpto]

I understand SJs position.  But for me I gave up on American women pretty much a long time ago.  First it was the lovely ladies of Mexico who treat a man in a way that a man wants to be treated, passion, food, attention.  Later, after another go round with some American ladies I just felt frustrated by the lack of sweetness I experienced.  So much selfishness, so much unreliablity, so much deception.  I probably would have gone back to Mexico if my Mom hadn't sent me that link to the Ellis Island site and I got interested in Ukraine.  By the second day in Ukraine I knew I had a better chance of finding a fantastic woman than I ever could in the US, or in Mexico for that matter.  Education, culture, sophistication, beauty, sweetness.. the whole package.  Surviving the minefields has been real challenging, but, I believe and hope it will be worth it.

[JR]

Here's a thought; all those "issues" that some men see with local women may very well exist in the FSUW they are pursuing but they are hidden initially because of language barriers. Men shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that those very same issues which repel them at home don't exist elsewhere.

Now there is a volumes worth of truth!

[Ade]

Why not a local woman ? Because MrsShadow was born in Russia. 
I never excluded any country or city in my search.

Yes, but things are a little different over here in Europe as we dont have the same time and travel constraints as the US and Canada what with Schegen and all.

[Ade]

I understand SJs position.  But for me I gave up on American women pretty much a long time ago.  First it was the lovely ladies of Mexico who treat a man in a way that a man wants to be treated, passion, food, attention.  Later, after another go round with some American ladies I just felt frustrated by the lack of sweetness I experienced.  So much selfishness, so much unreliablity, so much deception.  I probably would have gone back to Mexico if my Mom hadn't sent me that link to the Ellis Island site and I got interested in Ukraine.  By the second day in Ukraine I knew I had a better chance of finding a fantastic woman than I ever could in the US, or in Mexico for that matter.  Education, culture, sophistication, beauty, sweetness.. the whole package.  Surviving the minefields has been real challenging, but, I believe and hope it will be worth it.

Yes, but what about all those single Mexican, and Eastern European women already in the US that I've heard so much about?

[Sculpto]

Yes, but what about all those single Mexican, and Eastern European women already in the US that I've heard so much about?

Just havent had a connection.. never discounted either while i was looking overseas...

[Shadow]

Yes, but things are a little different over here in Europe as we dont have the same time and travel constraints as the US and Canada what with Schegen and all.

Having taken a plane to Argentina to meet a woman, I know all about time.
As far as travel constraints, I do not believe our US and Canadian members have a lot of them. 

[Daveman]

There's nothing wrong with AW.  Sure, some of them are fat, some are selfish, some are spoiled rotten, some are only after money/status/better life, some have that sense of entitlement, and some are afflicted by more than one or two of those maladies (hmmm, deja vuja de there).. but, I agree that if the same amount of time and energy were put into searching for a lady here as we put into looking there, we'd find some real gems.  There are many around these here parts.  The south has a ton of slender, fine looking women.  my last AW girlfriend was nothing to scoff at in that dept.  The only thing I don't really care for here is the real hick southern drawl. Thars jist nuttin SECK-see uhbout it.  When i lived in the Seattle area, I was married for most of the time, but when single, I enjoyed the ladies there.  I could give some why's for my search in the FSU, mostly having to do with "different", "exotic", "a romantic story of people from across the world blah blah"..  but I don't have any real reason as to the "why not?"  

The fantasy hype piqued my curiosity, the first visit killed the fantasy, but hooked me for life I think.  It seems that after you've had a relationship with a good FSUW, there just really isn't any going back.  Maybe there's a 12 step program or something.

I haven't met any single FSUW women in the Atlanta area, though there must be some here.  Must hide when I walk around the corner.  The ones over there haven't learned that trick yet I guess.

 

[Ooooops]

I haven't met any single FSUW women in the Atlanta area, though there must be some here.  Must hide when I walk around the corner.  The ones over there haven't learned that trick yet I guess.
 

 

 

I don't understand that either - there are lots of single Russian women in USA, already with papers, jobs and well adjusted into local life.    Why travel across seven seas if you can get one around the corner? 

[Ooooops]

There is no reason why it shouldn't be a local woman. If people put in the same amount of time, effort and money into finding someone in their own country that they put into finding someone in the FSU I'm sure that at least 80% to 90% could find their better half. (of course these need to be normal guys and not the desperate dross that wends its way to the FSU to take advantage of the economic disparity)

Amen!   

[Ade]

Having taken a plane to Argentina to meet a woman, I know all about time.
As far as travel constraints, I do not believe our US and Canadian members have a lot of them. 

It's more that the women have constraints travelling to them.

[Shadow]

It's more that the women have constraints travelling to them.

Its more the men that are not interested in women that do not have these constraints. 

[Gator]

Here's a thought; all those "issues" that some men see with local women may very well exist in the FSUW they are pursuing but they are hidden initially because of language barriers. Men shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that those very same issues which repel them at home don't exist elsewhere.

Good point.  Here's another.


All those "issues" that some men see with local women may very well be the result of how these men treat a woman.  Men shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that those very same issues will not eventually manifest themselves in a different woman if the men have not not changed.

[Ade]

Good point.  Here's another.

All those "issues" that some men see with local women may very well be the result of how these men treat a woman.  Men shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that those very same issues will not eventually manifest themselves in a different woman if the men have not not changed.

Yes, I would agree that some issues can be triggered by treatment and some men make the same mistakes eliciting the same response in different women.

[Misha]

Why not an American woman? You can insert your own nationality, I'm just using mine.

I have said this many times. I dated at home and because of work, I could date in Russia. There were few eligible, single women in my city that fit my criteria (educated, attractive, etc.) I even tried looking for women in other cities, but was told many times that they were not interested in a long-distance relationship. As I had and have a good job in my city and can't move easily and as I was not willing to risk unemployment for the sake of dating, my options were thus quite limited. Fortunately, I had the option of spending many months in Russia. There, I dated, met my wife, fell in love and she was willing to relocate. The rest is history. To make a long story short, if I had met more women like my wife in my city when I was single, I would certainly never have married a woman from Russia.

[GoodOlBoy]

Why not an American woman? You can insert your own nationality, I'm just using mine.

Why not?

I'd say on average about 40-50 lbs difference!  :evil:

GOB

[brucen36]

 

 

I don't understand that either - there are lots of single Russian women in USA, already with papers, jobs and well adjusted into local life.    Why travel across seven seas if you can get one around the corner? 

Because there is no economic leverage around the corner.

[KievHarmony]

Try to find a clever and attractive woman who is 5ft10 +, who wants to live with a man who take care of 3 young children, who likes children, opera, books, photo, classical music and jazz.  this will reduce a lot the local possibilities....

Everything most of the local women consider negative for me become positive abroad...
I met my wife and she could have been from any country, I will marry her without looking at her passport !

[Sculpto]

Good point.  Here's another.


All those "issues" that some men see with local women may very well be the result of how these men treat a woman.  Men shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that those very same issues will not eventually manifest themselves in a different woman if the men have not not changed.

Aren't you playing right into the feminist hand with your statement?

Not that I don't agree that what you say is the case sometimes.  I know I certainly have evaluated myself on that basis.  But, you leave out an important point, and for me, the one "issue" that time after time puts me over the edge with local women.

Reciprocal generosity.  Show me an American women who understands this concept and I will show you a married woman with a really happy husband.  They are so few and far between in our MeMe culture as to be not worth searching for when there are plenty of places in the world that are not infected by the disease of self absorbtion.

I believe most US men have become so accustomed to the "neutering" that we try too hard, overlook all kinds of flaws and are in so many cases so emasculated from the process that if there wasn't the outlet of searching and finding BETTER WOMEN in other cultures our society would actually be facing an implosion of grand proportions.  Imagine all those thousands of men who have happily married women frm another country if all of them were still single and miserable...

There is another side not often discussed in forums of married men and men seeking to get married.  There are a certain percentage of American men who are nothing more than "players" and those kinds of men have done a lot to harm the chances for "nice guys".  We all know the arguments about that so no need to replay them.

The same thing that can often make an American guy a good mate for FSUW is unfortunately the same thing that makes us suckers for the scammers.

I think Europeans are less affected by the process of demansculation (new word) but its just a feeling.. nothing to base the comment on except observation.  And it would also depend a lot on which part of Europe is being discussed.  For example, Brits may be more in common with Americans than say Italians, but then if you say that about Brits how do you explain the Irish who, at least the carpenters and builders in this neck of the woods, are some of the most macho bastards around...

[KenC]

Here's a thought; all those "issues" that some men see with local women may very well exist in the FSUW they are pursuing but they are hidden initially because of language barriers. Men shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that those very same issues which repel them at home don't exist elsewhere.

I have to agree with this statement.

The potential problems may indeed surface later after it is too late to avoid them.  However, this is a potential shortcoming relating to the individual woman and her character and personality.  Of course the viability of any relationship falls onto the strength of the two individuals makeup.  That being said, one also has to take into account the generalities usually found in the pool of women you search.

I believe that most women from the fsu possess certain characteristics that are not usually found in AW.  the biggest difference in my mind is the femininity of fsu women.  AW have become much more "man like" and have lost their femininity.  Their lack of attention to dressing well and treating their men well, is something I cannot easily accept now.  I know that we mock the agencies that tout "traditional" as a discreption of fsu women, but in reality (or at least my reality) it is quite true.  In the respect that fsu women seem to look at their marrage and relationship with their husband more like Americans did back in the 50's or 60's.  They do not fear to be considered weak or a lesser woman to depend upon their man.  They tend to support their man instead of compete with him.

I would be remiss not to mention the refreshing open attitude toward sex and sexiness too.  Their European outlook on these subjects are free from the American puritanical hangups.

Sculpto captured my thoughts when he wrote:

I believe most US men have become so accustomed to the "neutering" that we try too hard, overlook all kinds of flaws and are in so many cases so emasculated from the process that if there wasn't the outlet of searching and finding BETTER WOMEN in other cultures

Before fsu women were readily available, we AM had to "settle" for whatever we could find here, but not now.
KenC
(Cannot believe I actually agree with SJ and Sculpto in the same thread)

[Gator]

Aren't you playing right into the feminist hand with your statement?

Not that I don't agree that what you say is the case sometimes. 

Sometimes as in lack of respect, controlling, etc. 

But, you leave out an important point, and for me, the one "issue" that time after time puts me over the edge with local women.

Reciprocal generosity.

Sounds like score keeping. I did for all my wives, girlfriends and companions what I  felt like doing.  Looking back I would guess that I did more than they did.  They would probably say that they did more.    If someone was dissatisfied, we talked and went from there.  Usually I walked; once it gets out of balance, it is difficult to bring it back.  Pass it off as incompatibility.

In support of what you said, your term may describe my last trials with AW. I gave RW a try after a couple of failed year-long relationships with young AW.  One AW definitely wanted more than I was willing to give, e. g. she wanted the relationship to progress faster.  She said goodbye thinking I would chase after her.  I did not.  The other one said I was too much trouble, plus I did not want to have a baby in my late 50s.  Both continued to call me for a couple of years, and one even came the house years later lifting her blouse to show how good she looked.