Hellow and looking for advice

[JamesDH]

Hello,

New to the site and new to the idea of dating a woman from Russia.

Some background on me.
I live in Texas but have lived all over the world. I travel a lot so online dating is a godsend for me.
Problem is that past few women I've been out with have not been "keeper" material.
One was an absolute basket case and needed therapy and the second to the last one started laying down rules on the third date! Said my "getting saved" was a condition of our relationship.
I liked her a lot and we got along great but I don't want me "being saved" to be a condition of any relationship. To me that's a personal matter between me and the man upstairs.

Anyway.. The other day I was messing around online and saw something for Russian Women. I put a picture up and started getting letters from all sorts of women.
I'm 50 years old and have no interest in finding a 20 or 30 something year old bride or life partner so I skip over those.. One caught my eye. Plain looking woman of 44 years with a very nice cover letter. Sincere and well worded. We exchanged a few emails and I called her.
We talked for two hours the first phone call! Her English is very good and I love that accent. Reading between the lines I can tell she is a warm, sincere person. Well educated and very respectful.
My sixth sense says we would get along really well, like we're on the same wavelength etc..

Honestly I'm very attracted to this woman and not because of her looks. She is kind of plain looking but not ugly nor a knockout. I'm more attracted to her as a person and the answers I've gotten to the questions I've asked. The phone call was great. We laughed and talked and I felt like I had known her for a long time. Very nice fit.

The advice I need is.. she wants to come visit me and soon. She has an American tourist visa and has been to the US before. Her visa runs out at the end of June and she wants to come while it's still good.
I'm thinking "great!!" but I'm having thoughts about dropping the $2400 it would take to get her here. I mean I can afford it but that's a lot of money for something that has happened so fast (We've only been talking for a few days and only one phone call).

My gut says do it but I need a push or a reality check.

James D.

[ECOCKS]

Read the 10 Commandments.

The visa expiring in June is kind of odd, but not necessarily a killer.

I take it she is asking for money for the ticket?

Ugh, late night. Sort of glossed over the $2400. That trips the scammer switch for me. You're better off waiting a few weeks, buying your own ticket there (for about $800-1000) and enjoying a visit with a vacation. Since she's been here before she knows what the US is like. You can go and learn some things about her area.

See how she reacts to that.

I also should have asked which agency you met her through, Tired, sorry.

Also, have you gotten the Agency out of the communications loop?

[JamesDH]

Hey thanks for the quick reply.

Good advice!

Yes we are past the agency and I believe it was www.russian-women-personals.com

I have a scanned image of her visa now and it does expire in June. June 16th 2009.

She didn't ask for money and I get the feeling she's a little ashamed of the fact that I would be buying her ticket. She never asked me to buy it.

It does seem to be the major topic of conversation.. like she became less concerned about me and more concerned about flights.

We'll see.

Thanks for the reality check!

James

[Ade]

Hey thanks for the quick reply.

Good advice!

Yes we are past the agency and I believe it was www.russian-women-personals.com

I have a scanned image of her visa now and it does expire in June. June 16th 2009.

She didn't ask for money and I get the feeling she's a little ashamed of the fact that I would be buying her ticket. She never asked me to buy it.

It does seem to be the major topic of conversation.. like she became less concerned about me and more concerned about flights.

We'll see.

Thanks for the reality check!

James

How soon can you get there? If you can't make it very soon as in within a few weeks, start talking about buying the tickets for her online - not a big deal as I do it for my fiancée all the time. If she still sticks around knowing she won't get money but a non-refundable ticket then it will probably rule out a scam.

The fact that she's in her 40s and not a super model looker reduces the probability that she's a scammer too. That she can get a tourist visa says a lot as well and if she can get one she can get another.

Still, with so little time to get to know her you never know what some people's motivations are.

If it were me and I were really into her, well, I'd bite the bullet and buy her a ticket. After all, this isn't a K1 you're entering into with domestic violence/GC tricks that she could pull so the risk is small. Then again, I can afford to throw away the ticket price. 

[Shadow]

No matter how good she sounds on the phone, chances are too high that she is a scammer.
How did she get the visa without showing she has the money to buy the ticket and travel ? That would be close to a miracle.
I suspect the visa is a piece of Photoshop art, check it carefully and you might find mistakes with either the picture, the dates and numbers, or both.

Apart from the phone call, it is a classic scam pattern.
Women gets very interested in a short time, already has travel visa in place but is on a time limit so you have little time to think, and asks an amount that is probably too high for the ticket.

[Enot]

Don't do it, 99.9% scam.  What she will probably do is change her destination for a vacation with a "friend" and not come visit you.

If you really want to meet this girl, tell her you will arrive to her.  Any Former Soviet Union (FSU) woman would do this.  Tell her she can get a visa later, if she got 1 then I'm sure she can get another.

If you send her the money, don't be upset if she doesn't show and your out $2400.

You can verify if her visa is valad by contacting the USCIS, www.uscis.gov.

Good luck.

[tim 360]

James,  Take it slow right now and send NO money.  Scammers of all types do operate on that website as well as sincere ladies.  It is cute she sent you a photo of her Visa (like maybe she has done this before?), but most people, including yourself would not know a forged or altered Visa from a good one.  The same goes for her Passport.

A few years ago a lady emailed me her passport as I had requested and I did ask a few knowledgeable people to check it out.  She was an average looking girl too.  All thought it was genuine, but I just felt something was just not quite right.  I checked up a little more.  Luckily a friend of a friend was in the Ukraine militia and he showed me how it had been very cleverly altered.  It was a genuine Russian passport,  but illegally altered.  Following up further through a contact in "her" city...it was all a very clever scam.

At first I was a bit surprised because she was not a beauty just an average looking girl.  But, if one thinks of an experienced scammer as a fisherman trying to hook some fish---he would try all different types of bait for all the different fish he wanted to hook.  Take it slowly.

[KievHarmony]

Hey thanks for the quick reply.

Good advice!

Yes we are past the agency and I believe it was www.russian-women-personals.com

I have a scanned image of her visa now and it does expire in June. June 16th 2009.

She didn't ask for money and I get the feeling she's a little ashamed of the fact that I would be buying her ticket. She never asked me to buy it.

It does seem to be the major topic of conversation.. like she became less concerned about me and more concerned about flights.

We'll see.

Thanks for the reality check!

James

It seems she is a scammer. The good test in 2 phases: 1) Suggest that you will travel to see her, her answer will be probably that this is difficult etc. Not a direct no but almost..2)  tell her that you will buy her ticket and will send her an email with the E-ticket number....you will see what she will do...
Same thing happened with one coworker who corresponded with two women found on ElenasModels. One seems to be ok, the second one was calling him daily and after 2 weeks was asking money for a ticket... The solution described above was working and he stopped to hear from her.

Second one seems to be ok, he will meet her in St Peter (she is from one little place in Komi republic)

Finally, try to use site like luckylovers.net , contact me in PM if you need more infos.

[Faux Pas]

Seems to be a common theme in the responses, DON'T send money. And for good reason. A sincere lady, especially already with visa in hand normally wouldn't ask or even need your money. Scammers seem to always be the exception. Commandment #1 is #1 for a reason. Something is amiss and smells bad here.

Scams work in any different number of ways and the chance that this lady isn't a scam is quite small. Still possible however that she isn't. You said you had a nice pleasing telephone conversation. This isn't very normal for scammers. As others have mentioned, if she got one visa, most likely she can get another. If her visa happens to be real (unlikely) don't let the the June expiration date be some mystic date you must act by. Don't move to fast on this. If you just want to send money, send it to me. Slow down, back to low gear and get to know more about her. An honest lady would want you to do this. Do not send money and do not discuss buying her ticket. Stay out of those conversations. Scammers are notoriously impatient after pulling the trigger.  

[Gator]

James.

Welcome!

Don't do it!

First, the price is too high.  A Delta round trip flight from Moscow to DFW is only $800.  This suggests a scam or someone who is not careful with money (however, little else suggests a scam) (read the Scam Avoidance links and 10 commandments - upper left of this page).

Second (and this is what concerns me the most), you like this woman, yet I am not hearing the words that you are really enthusiastic about her.  Your interest largely derives from comparison with the two AW's demerits rather than this RW's individual merits.   There are many fish in the FSU sea, and some are phenomenal.

Third, you are new to RW and you need to study the archives here at RWD to determine if RW are for you, especially the cost of doing this and her adjustment period after relocating to your city (hint: it is not cheap and a RW will take a lot of your time).

Fourth, if you must take time off from work to spend with this woman, why not take the same time off and go to her country to enjoy a ground-truthed experience, maybe meeting some other RW?

Fifth, if she got one visa, she will be able to get another at a future date if your relationship grows.

Sixth, the 40+ yo RW are largely ignored, and I commend you.  Why not take a look at other RW in this category rather than focus solely on the one who came knocking on your door?  As an example, do a search of the women listed with Elena's Models agency, freepersonal.ru, as well as Lucky Lovers suggested above. The EM search engine allows you to consider a wide range of variables with education and English proficiency being only two.  I bet some of these women will trigger your enthusiasm.

[Ade]

James, as you've probably noticed by now, red flags can be seen anywhere if people look hard enough. The truth is, most people here in a long term relationship or married could probably point out a number of "signs" that initially didn't look good according to the "rules" but turned out to be false alarms. And if they were blind to them I'm sure everyone else here could have found a bunch if they'd been asked.

It's almost impossible to rule out everything and at some point you have to decide what your risk threshold is and take a leap of faith once you've satisfied yourself to that level. Just use some common sense and don't offer up something a scammer wants unless you are sure that you don't mind losing it.

[Shadow]

James, as you've probably noticed by now, red flags can be seen anywhere if people look hard enough. The truth is, most people here in a long term relationship or married could probably point out a number of "signs" that initially didn't look good according to the "rules" but turned out to be false alarms. And if they were blind to them I'm sure everyone else here could have found a bunch if they'd been asked.

I agree that all women I visited showed red flags according to the rules.
But one thing stood out. They would never even suggest me to pay for them.

[Ade]

I agree that all women I visited showed red flags according to the rules.
But one thing stood out. They would never even suggest me to pay for them.

Yes, well, apparently neither did James' woman.

[Phil dAmore]

James:

Where is she from?  Have you checked her name against known scammers?

Agree with others, something about that visa is fishy.

осторожно!

[GQBlues]

Unless you posted one before I can finish typing this, you still haven't said she asked you for any money. So I'm a bit at a loss how people already knew this woman is a scammer?

For the most part, you only speculated she may be ashamed of doing so at this point (money request). FWIW, we still live in a society where innocence prevail until proven otherwise. Why ask for scanned photo of her passport/visa? Wouldn't it be more valid, if you're that skeptical, to ask for photos of her last time she was here in the US?

If it ever comes to the point where she asked to travel to the US to see you, welcome it with exultation. Offer to accomodate her visit, and If it's an option for you, feel free to reimburse her airfare but not buy it for her - but only do so here and with you.

If she already had a tourist visa before, she have a better than a good chance she can get another one without any problem. So I fail to see any urgency there. Worst comes to worst and she can't get a new one, then make plans to visit her soon. If you liked her enough, that's something you'd be doing anyway, right?

Lastly, people's sense of immediateness should never be the cause of your urgency.

[KievHarmony]

As I wrote previously, the best is to suggest to travel to see her and to see her answer, and to give as alternative to buy an e-ticket.
He can be refund and he will have no money to send to her...

[JamesDH]

Lots of good advice!
Thanks everyone

First off she has not asked for money in any shape or form. She didn't even ask me to buy the ticket. She mentioned she had an open visa and I mentioned coming here. Then over a few days it progressed to where I volunteered to get the ticket.
Second off we already had the discussion of me traveling there and she was in agreement and started telling me all the places she would show me and activities that are available.

She is from Vladivostok and works in an adoption agency (verified) and that is what brought her to the USA the first time. The second time was when one of the couples she helped in the adoption process invited her over.

I have been the one looking at flights and I can't find any for less than $2200. I did see one for $1800 that went thru China but she said that there is a travel advisory for China due to flu and asked not to go thru there.

It would just be me emailing her the e-ticket number. Looking at the airline info the flight is non-refundable and requires $140 to change it up to 72 hours prior to departure.

I agree, red flags can be seen but like you say... "almost any case can have red flags if you look hard enough".

I did the Scam Card (not working by the way) and she passed with flying colors (almost everything in the blue).
I could not find her on any other service and going back over the messages we exchanged I get the feeling she's not a "pro" as she was unsure of how certain things worked with the service.
I did a name search for her "Olga Sechkina" and nothing turned up.

I'm leaning toward doing it. You only live once.
I'm not too concerned about the money but more concerned about emotional stress and possible future problems like some sort of scam or trickery.

[Ade]

I'm leaning toward doing it. You only live once.
I'm not too concerned about the money but more concerned about emotional stress and possible future problems like some sort of scam or trickery.

If you don't mind spending the money and nothing coming of it you've got nothing to lose in this step. To me, with the information you've given I see no real negatives in giving it a go. There are certainly no real signs she's anything other than what you say she is.

For sure, if you don't do it, you will always wonder, "what if..."

[Faux Pas]

James....It pays to be cautious on all fronts physical, emotional and financial. I'll still refer you to commandment #1. Your latest revelation points to she may be on the up and up. Nobody on the forum can tell you what to do or of this lady is for real. Only you and the little voice in your head can determine that at this juncture. All we can do it point out areas of concern and the flags. Many have and you have some basic info to proceed or not.

If money is not your concern then, buy the ticket. I say this is much to fast and caution you to slow down. You feel good about her but a few phone calls and emails does not a relationship make. OTOH I don't always go with convention myself. If I had I wouldn't have found my lady in Russia.

[Ravens9273]

I have read this whole thread and personally feel he should not buy the ticket. No matter what the cost anything can go wrong and even to loose any money under false pretenses hurts if you can afford it or not.

From what you have said she has visted the USA twice. By now she knows how the USA is and if she is talking to an American Man she obviously feels she can make the adjustments to start a life here.

If she were to visit you in the US then obviously you will not be working etc during this time. If you were she would feel it would be rude to not make your time available to her. Either way you would not be working. I think you should visit her in her country.

If this do not work out at least you got a vacation and new experience out of it. Also I think visiting her country will help you to understand her more to make a relationship grow. She knows your country.
Visiting her country will give you alot more understanding.

Money will not be wasted visting her. You have a trip and new experience at least. Buying her a ticket, well that can go in any direction. Which do you feel is a less risk?

[Ade]

James....It pays to be cautious on all fronts physical, emotional and financial. I'll still refer you to commandment #1. Your latest revelation points to she may be on the up and up. Nobody on the forum can tell you what to do or of this lady is for real. Only you and the little voice in your head can determine that at this juncture. All we can do it point out areas of concern and the flags. Many have and you have some basic info to proceed or not.

If money is not your concern then, buy the ticket. I say this is much to fast and caution you to slow down. You feel good about her but a few phone calls and emails does not a relationship make. OTOH I don't always go with convention myself. If I had I wouldn't have found my lady in Russia.

Too quick? Come on, give me a break. Too quick for what exactly? Sounds like he has enough information to me. Unlike most of you yanks he even has a chance of getting her home to see what it's like there without having to commit to a K1. What's the worse that can happen for crying out loud? Being stuck with someone with no chemistry is probably about it. Who knows, maybe she won't be able to pull off another tourist visa any time soon so why waste this one chance?

[Ade]

I have read this whole thread and personally feel he should not buy the ticket. No matter what the cost anything can go wrong and even to loose any money under false pretenses hurts if you can afford it or not.

From what you have said she has visted the USA twice. By now she knows how the USA is and if she is talking to an American Man she obviously feels she can make the adjustments to start a life here.

If she were to visit you in the US then obviously you will not be working etc during this time. If you were she would feel it would be rude to not make your time available to her. Either way you would not be working. I think you should visit her in her country.

If this do not work out at least you got a vacation and new experience out of it. Also I think visiting her country will help you to understand her more to make a relationship grow. She knows your country.
Visiting her country will give you alot more understanding.

Money will not be wasted visting her. You have a trip and new experience at least. Buying her a ticket, well that can go in any direction. Which do you feel is a less risk?

You have to remember, relationships are a two way street; she needs to know as much about him and his life in the US as he does about her and her life. Visiting the US a couple of times does not mean she knows what life is like with him in his house and town. If things go well there's nothing stopping him taking a reciprocal trip to her town; at least this way she gets to come to him without being forced into K1 territory like most of the rest of you.

[Ravens9273]

You have to remember, relationships are a two way street; she needs to know as much about him and his life in the US as he does about her and her life. Visiting the US a couple of times does not mean she knows what life is like with him in his house and town. If things go well there's nothing stopping him taking a reciprocal trip to her town; at least this way she gets to come to him without being forced into K1 territory like most of the rest of you.

Well hes not wasting $2400 the other way around. This is first meeting. I think it is crazy for anyone to spend such money on person not met without knowing the outcome of what will happen to that money.
If he is on the trip at least money is not wasted. He had a trip.
If she wants to buy her own way to USA for meeting. I say fine. If he is paying. Then he should go there.
The very fact he came here to ask says deep down inside he is not 100% sure himself. This says it all to me. There is no way I would put $2400 up for anyone I have never met. To do so is rediculous.
She has had 2 USA tourists visas. She can get another later.
Go to her first.

[Shadow]

If getting the e-ticket works for her go ahead.
But if she suddenly 'finds a cheaper flight', 'needs exit money' and such, don't fall for it.

Behind every succesful scam story is a real story. Do you have the real one ? Only time will tell.

What I find strange is her sending a copy of the visa. Also I do not belive that the suggestion came from you, RW are very smart in letting you think it was your suggestion.
Maybe her work does explain all. Maybe not.

Its up to you to make the decision, and like always I prefer to read that you met the woman of your dreams much more as to get confirmation of my suspicions.

[Faux Pas]

Too quick? Come on, give me a break. Too quick for what exactly? Sounds like he has enough information to me. Unlike most of you yanks he even has a chance of getting her home to see what it's like there without having to commit to a K1. What's the worse that can happen for crying out loud? Being stuck with someone with no chemistry is probably about it. Who knows, maybe she won't be able to pull off another tourist visa any time soon so why waste this one chance?

Are you really that dense or do you just play like it on the forum? I reaffirm "too quick". By his own admission they have a few emails and a few phone calls. Also from his statements he is becoming attached to this lady and ready to lay down $2400 for her ticket. On the chance the lady takes the ticket and does not show, how would you surmise he might come out? Not everyone lacks the feeling you do. HE DOESN'T KNOW HER. It could wind up very taxing emotionally and quite an expensive lesson.

I say take some time and don't let a visa expiration date pollute his decision process.