Hellow and looking for advice

[Ade]

Well hes not wasting $2400 the other way around. This is first meeting. I think it is crazy for anyone to spend such money on person not met without knowing the outcome of what will happen to that money.
If he is on the trip at least money is not wasted. He had a trip.
If she wants to buy her own way to USA for meeting. I say fine. If he is paying. Then he should go there.
The very fact he came here to ask says deep down inside he is not 100% sure himself. This says it all to me. There is no way I would put $2400 up for anyone I have never met. To do so is rediculous.
She has had 2 USA tourists visas. She can get another later.
Go to her first.

Dude, if he goes to Vladivostok and it doesn't work out what extra has he got for his troubles? A trip to an industrial Russian city. Big deal. Either way the money has to be spent.

[Ade]

Are you really that dense or do you just play like it on the forum? I reaffirm "too quick". By his own admission they have a few emails and a few phone calls. Also from his statements he is becoming attached to this lady and ready to lay down $2400 for her ticket. On the chance the lady takes the ticket and does not show, how would you surmise he might come out? Not everyone lacks the feeling you do. HE DOESN'T KNOW HER. It could wind up very taxing emotionally and quite an expensive lesson.

I say take some time and don't let a visa expiration date pollute his decision process.

Of course he doesn't know her. And I didn't truly know my fiancée when I met her after talking for 2 months either. You never do until you meet and spend a lot of time together. At least this guy has spent some time talking to this woman on the phone unlike a lot of email Romeos here about. 

He's already said he doesn't mind losing the price of the ticket; sometimes you have to ignore other peoples paranoia and take calculated risks or you'll never get anywhere.

[Ravens9273]

Dude, if he goes to Vladivostok and it doesn't work out what extra has he got for his troubles? A trip to an industrial Russian city. Big deal. Either way the money has to be spent.

From my time on this forum I think the biggest advice I have seen given over and over again is

1.The best way to meet Russian Women is to get on a plane and go over there.
2. If you cannot go within three months do not start communication.

What you are saying now is going against this.
With a trip his money was not wasted nor disapeared into thin air.
He has experience going to Russia. If that is as far as it goes at least he has that.
He has ability to meet other Women if it does not work out.
Lets not forget the golden rule. BACKUP PLAN

I can go on and on to advantages. However I will say this. I much rather have a bad trip for myself then scammed out of $2400.

To even suggest he forks out $2400 to someone who is a complete stranger is insane.

You said they BOTH need to have an understanding about each others lives
Right now she has some basic knowledge about life is USA
He has NO knowledge about life in Russia.

Right now I would say her knowledge factor is ahead of his.
It is his turn to learn her. Right now no one, even he is 100% sure this lady is for real. Still red flags. As shadow said. Showing his the visa is just not normal. This almost looks like a set up.
She may be legit. No one knows. However it is not your $2400 to suggest he should just go buy the ticket. It is insane to say so. If he had met her before it would be a whole different story. They have a few emails and few phone calls. That does not justify telling him to spend $2400 on a ticket even he is not 100% positive to the outcome of what will hapen.

[ECOCKS]

Come on SJ, nothing wrong with a trip to Vladivostok. It's big enough he can make some other contacts and do a little bit of sightseeing. He'll eat the food, knock back some vodka, buddy up with some of the Pacific Fleet, maybe ride a train and, hopefully, meet at least one down-home Russian family.

I agree that if she is 40+ and has been in and out of the US on legitimate business twice before, she will have no trouble getting a second visa.

[Sculpto]

chance for scam is high.

scammers are getting smarter.  the old tricks dont work anymore.  Using an older plain woman is smart because it is more believable.  Even HRB has older non attractive women on their payroll.. i mean "list of available women".

Questions..

Have you seen her on web cam?  If not, get it done!  If she has travelled to the US for real she has the money for it.

Web cam still doesn't confirm she will show up.  It only confirms the woman in the profile and on the phone is the one he is talking to.

Third party verification might be in order.  I am not exactly sure how this could be done, but, perhaps an arrangement could be made with a Vladivostok travel agent to act as his representative.  There is risk in doing that though because if it is a scam the TA could be offered a cut to go along with it.  Maybe there is some other way to get a third party verification?

I say slow down.  MOO

[Ade]

From my time on this forum I think the biggest advice I have seen given over and over again is

1.The best way to meet Russian Women is to get on a plane and go over there.
2. If you cannot go within three months do not start communication.

What you are saying now is going against this.
With a trip his money was not wasted nor disapeared into thin air.
He has experience going to Russia. If that is as far as it goes at least he has that.
He has ability to meet other Women if it does not work out.
Lets not forget the golden rule. BACKUP PLAN

I can go on and on to advantages. However I will say this. I much rather have a bad trip for myself then scammed out of $2400.

To even suggest he forks out $2400 to someone who is a complete stranger is insane.

You said they BOTH need to have an understanding about each others lives
Right now she has some basic knowledge about life is USA
He has NO knowledge about life in Russia.

Right now I would say her knowledge factor is ahead of his.
It is his turn to learn her. Right now no one, even he is 100% sure this lady is for real. Still red flags. As shadow said. Showing his the visa is just not normal. This almost looks like a set up.
She may be legit. No one knows. However it is not your $2400 to suggest he should just go buy the ticket. It is insane to say so. If he had met her before it would be a whole different story. They have a few emails and few phone calls. That does not justify telling him to spend $2400 on a ticket even he is not 100% positive to the outcome of what will hapen.

Actually, the best way to meet a Russian woman is to bump into one in your own town that lives there already.

To some of us the money is, quite frankly, a minor concern. What really matters is finding the right women. The way I see it, he's into this woman, has talked for hours on the phone with her and has the possibility of buying some online tickets and getting her to show up on his doorstep.

He is the only one that has talked to this woman and it's his call. If it were my situation and the woman was my fiancée, yeah, I would have bought the ticket.

Before I first met my fiancé I sent her a scan of my visa to reassure her that I wasn't a nut case keyboard romeo that wouldn't show at the airport. It happens, we know it does. The fact that she sent him proof that she has a visa is no more suspicious than that.  

[Ravens9273]

This forum is for the purpose to help Men to have a safe and successful journey in finding a bride in the FSU. Yet someone is here giving the advice to a new person who came her for help and guidance to spend $2400 blindly on a person they only shared a few emails and phone calls with.

We ll know the biggest scam going is VISIT YOU IN USA scam.

I am just floored by the fact this Man was even remotely told to consider spending the money on buying her a ticket.
Especially when he showed interest in finding an FSUW. No better way to find them then to go there.

This board tok a serious turn in the wrong direction with this advice.
What I would like to know is if you suggest he send the $2400. If he looses this money are you willing to pay him back??
If no then do not suggest he spend it.
I find it very hard to believe those suggesting he should would do the same.

Like I said. I am just completely floored he received this advice.

[Ravens9273]

SJ. Listen to what you are writting.

Actually, the best way to meet a Russian woman is to bump into one in your own town that lives there already.


 If it were my situation and the woman was my fiancée, yeah, I would have bought the ticket.

SHE IS NOT HIS FIANCEE

Even you just now said you would only do if it were YOUR FIANCEE

He has NEVER met her.

[\quote]Before I first met my fiancé I sent her a scan of my visa to reassure her that I wasn't a nut case keyboard romeo that wouldn't show at the airport. It happens, we know it does. The fact that she sent him proof that she has a visa is no more suspicious than that.  [/quote]

Well you were also paying for the trip werent you?

What would it matter you showing her a visa? You were not trying to get her to pay for it.

[Ade]

Come on SJ, nothing wrong with a trip to Vladivostok. It's big enough he can make some other contacts and do a little bit of sightseeing. He'll eat the food, knock back some vodka, buddy up with some of the Pacific Fleet, maybe ride a train and, hopefully, meet at least one down-home Russian family.

I agree that if she is 40+ and has been in and out of the US on legitimate business twice before, she will have no trouble getting a second visa.

From what I've heard of Vladivostok it's not the most pleasant of places and very polluted too.

I just have to shake my head at some of the people here; no matter what they story is, the answer is almost always, "possible scam". The sad thing is, it's true, almost anything can be viewed through the eyes of paranoia and be seen as suspicious. Sometimes, you have to weigh the risks and take a leap; in this situation I'd say the risks are as minor as they come.

[Ade]

SJ. Listen to what you are writting.

SHE IS NOT HIS FIANCEE

Let me rephrase that for the hard of thinking; when I was talking to the woman that would become my fiancée but before I met her, if I'd been given a chance to buy an E-ticket and have her show up on my doorstep I would have jumped at the chance. Would it be a risk? Sure it would but then there was always a chance she wouldn't have shown up at the airport to meet me in SPB as well.

[\quote]Before I first met my fiancé I sent her a scan of my visa to reassure her that I wasn't a nut case keyboard romeo that wouldn't show at the airport. It happens, we know it does. The fact that she sent him proof that she has a visa is no more suspicious than that. 

Well you were also paying for the trip werent you?

What would it matter you showing her a visa? You were not trying to get her to pay for it.

Yes, I was paying but dude, don't you realize how often women go to meet men at the airport and have them not turn up?

FWIW, I've always paid for my fiancées e-tickets even before we'd met. I had no choice if I actually wanted to meet her as she couldn't afford to pay. Oh wait, by your rules that would mean we would never have met. Good call dude. 

Ultimately, the only guy that can weigh the risks is the guy talking to her as he is privy to information we will never have.

[ECOCKS]

The classic con (and many sales ploys for that matter) involves getting the victim off-balance by rushing things too hurriedly through for them to understand what is going on.

A notable question would be why hasn't she applied to renew her visa if she is still employed at an international adoption agency?

I also liked whoever suggested that he could check her visa and also reimburse her costs when she gets off the plane even if the money is of no consequence to him. Of course, even this leaves him open to a serial dater who may be thinking about doing a cut and run as her visa expires. Plenty of illegals wandering around (some with ties at the very highest levels of government even) trying to stay under the radar. At least he would not have been involved with her invitation, only the financing.

All in all, I agree with Raven. Better for him to go there. She can be working on that renewal and if things go well then that's great.

[Ravens9273]

Let me rephrase that for the hard of thinking; when I was talking to the woman that would become my fiancée but before I met her, if I'd been given a chance to buy an E-ticket and have her show up on my doorstep I would have jumped at the chance. Would it be a risk? Sure it would but then there was always a chance she wouldn't have shown up at the airport to meet me in SPB as well.

Yes, I was paying but dude, don't you realize how often women go to meet men at the airport and have them not turn up?

FWIW, I've always paid for my fiancées e-tickets even before we'd met. I had no choice if I actually wanted to meet her as she couldn't afford to pay. Oh wait, by your rules that would mean we would never have met. Good call dude. 

Ultimately, the only guy that can weigh the risks is the guy talking to her as he is privy to information we will never have.

SJ,
Your logic is without reason.
By my rules as you mentioned they would never meet. I think I have just sat her trying to explain he needs to visit her. That would be called a meeting SJ. Get it straight.

Now you just said YOU ALWAYS PAID FOR YOUR FIANCEES ETICKETS BEFORE YOU MET.

You just said a moment ago you sent her copy of your visa and she met you at airport. When did you buy her tickets? Obviously not before you met.
Also this statment leads one to beleive you bought tickets more then one time before you met. So how many tickets you buy that she did not show up for? Your statment does say tickets and you did not meet yet.

At this point you are just determined to push your idea he should buy a stranger a $2400 ticket. So much so that your story on your meeting with fiancee has changed to prove your points. This only leads one to believe inside even you know you are giving bad advice. If you have to change your stories to fit your point this shows even you did not go the route you are now recommending.

Like I said. Since you want to push your advice to this person that he should buy a $2400 ticket for a stranger and gets scammed, are you going to pay him back?
I know the answer to this already. NO. Then do not give him such advice.

He has many options for visiting her so do not make it seem like he does not.
He has the ability to contact other women from the area as back up plans if all does not go well.
He has ability to get agency information from area to set up dates if all does not go well.
He has ability for many backup plans if all does not go well.
He joined a site for the purpose of meeting FSU Women. He has interest. He should go there and get his feet wet. If the lady is real and it works. GREAT. If not he has backup plans. Those plans are alot better then possibly falling for biggest scam out there.
He is taking risk of losing $2400. If lady really does come and things do not go well he has nothing. His feet are not wet and he is right at the beinging with no other prospects and lots of money lost (not to mention this is if it is not even a scam being pulled on him).

[Faux Pas]

Of course he doesn't know her. And I didn't truly know my fiancée when I met her after talking for 2 months either.

Did you send her $2400? Would you have sent her $2400?

You never do until you meet and spend a lot of time together. At least this guy has spent some time talking to this woman on the phone unlike a lot of email Romeos here about.

 

He hasn't spent a lot of time, he said as much. A 2 hour phone call which was a very good conversation and a few emails. Certainly not the 2 months you seem to want to point to

He's already said he doesn't mind losing the price of the ticket; sometimes you have to ignore other peoples paranoia and take calculated risks or you'll never get anywhere.

Yes he said that, he doesn't mind the money so much. Do you think he wouldn't mind the money if she didn't show up? He's feeling real good about her now. Euphoric with the fantasy.  Listen, my advice to slow down was solid when I posted it and still is now. You seem to want to poop all over it because it was from me. I deduce this because yours makes no sense. Your "Oh yeah send her the money you have nothing to lose" advice is just plain bad.

This pursuit is fraught with scams at every angle and you know this. You should be ashamed.

[JamesDH]

Some very good points raised and I feel much less driven by my emotional impulses!
I also feel less doubt because so far I haven't seen anything that shouts "DANGER".

relationships are a two way street; she needs to know as much about him and his life in the US as he does about her and her life.

That point is one that makes me feel better because when we first started talking she was very interested in my past and my family. Just as I would expect someone considering a new mate. Not like a scammer that could care less about your family or mentioned them with less concern.

If she were to visit you in the US then obviously you will not be working etc during this time

Not a concern. I'm off till the end of June. (I love my job!!)

Visiting her country will give you alot more understanding

I've been to Russia several times with my job. I've seen the women. I've worked with the men.

Only you and the little voice in your head can determine that at this juncture.

The little voice says "DO IT" What have I got to loose? A few days of my life?

She did comment that getting the Visa was a lot of trouble. Can it be extended?

Even if we don't have chemistry I would still do my best to make her stay here enjoyable. There is plenty to do and see in the Houston/Galveston area to keep us busy for 10 days.

Sixth, the 40+ yo RW are largely ignored, and I commend you.  Why not take a look at other RW in this category rather than focus solely on the one who came knocking on your door?  As an example, do a search of the women listed with Elena's Models agency, freepersonal.ru, as well as Lucky Lovers suggested above. The EM search engine allows you to consider a wide range of variables with education and English proficiency being only two.  I bet some of these women will trigger your enthusiasm.

I have been communicating with several in that age catagory and have kept the lines open. I will take a look at the EM search engine. I'm not dead set on English proficiency. I speak Spanish, some Portuguese and a little French and don't feel it would be out of the question to learn some Russian.

[Ravens9273]

Did you send her $2400? Would you have sent her $2400?
 

He hasn't spent a lot of time, he said as much. A 2 hour phone call which was a very good conversation and a few emails. Certainly not the 2 months you seem to want to point to

Yes he said that, he doesn't mind the money so much. Do you think he wouldn't mind the money if she didn't show up? He's feeling real good about her now. Euphoric with the fantasy.  Listen, my advice to slow down was solid when I posted it and still is now. You seem to want to poop all over it because it was from me. I deduce this because yours makes no sense. Your "Oh yeah send her the money you have nothing to lose" advice is just plain bad.

This pursuit is fraught with scams at every angle and you know this. You should be ashamed.

[ECOCKS]

Well JDH, you have a cross-section of opinion to consider.

Please let us know how it turns out for you, one way or another.

[JamesDH]

Well JDH, you have a cross-section of opinion to consider.

That's the truth!!
I never imagined this much response or advice.

Please let us know how it turns out for you, one way or another.

I will for sure.
I'm going to call her later today and ask some pointed questions.
We'll see where that leads.

James

[Sculpto]

I will for sure.
I'm going to call her later today and ask some pointed questions.
We'll see where that leads.

James

Be polite when you ask, even better, dont ask but carefully hint at what you want to know.  She will understand and if she is real will respond appropriately.

[Ravens9273]

James.

Wish you all the best and I truly hope everything works out perfect for you. Ultimately it is your choice and your choice alone on how to proceed. I hope it turns out the way you wish. This is all any of us here hope for.

Now I will still stick to my guns in case any new person reads this thread who are in a similar situation.
Without question it was wrong for anyone here to advice to buy a ticket for someone they have not met.
99.999999999% of the time it will be a scam.
Even if James is successful (and I truly hope he is) it will be far from the norm. Take precaution in this situations like this. It is always best for you to make first trip.

[Muckraker]

James,

I have a trip report on Vladivostok posted here if you are interested.

By the way, what was the issue date of the visa?  What category?

Muck

[Ooooops]

I have been the one looking at flights and I can't find any for less than $2200. I did see one for $1800 that went thru China but she said that there is a travel advisory for China due to flu and asked not to go thru there.

I wouldn't worry about that.   We live in Hong Kong and my hubby travels to China almost every week.   They are very serious about the precautions there - wouldn't let you off the plane without the temperature check first.    So there is $400 saving right here!   

[Ooooops]

JamesHD, if you feel that you'd like to pay for that ticket (it's your money, right?   so don't listen to nobody  ) in a safe enough way (CC or miles, so you can call back that transaction if you need to) then do it.   If you traveled a lot then you know that there is not much fun in long distance flights.   In fact, I'd rather pay the same price, so people could come and visit me, then clamber on board of airplane for 24 (or more in lots of cases) hours...   :evil:

[JamesDH]

Wonderful story Muck.
Good to hear the positive and not all negative.
Beautiful children as well. You must be proud.

I'm looking at the visa and I don't see where it says Category. I do see where it was issued on 26June2008 and expires 16June2009. I'll attach it.

I called her this morning about 9am her time and we had another wonderful talk. Info I got out of her (sounds like Gitmo huh?) She has never been on a dating site before and had just started with this one. She has two friends that found men in USA and they are both happy here. I went into the conversation with different eyes (thanks to you guys) and frankly I didn't feel anything that set off any red flags. Very normal conversation about typical subjects.
I brought up traveling here and we both agreed that it was, in her words "pretty fast".

After the conversation I did some soul searching and decided to go for it.
I got the ticket as well as filled out the form to allow her to travel on a ticket I purchased.

We talked again just a bit ago and she was all about what to bring? How is the weather? What do you want from Russia? typical stuff.

We'll see.

[Ade]

SJ,
Your logic is without reason.
By my rules as you mentioned they would never meet. I think I have just sat her trying to explain he needs to visit her. That would be called a meeting SJ. Get it straight.

Get the context straight - I was talking of my fiancée.
 

Now you just said YOU ALWAYS PAID FOR YOUR FIANCEES ETICKETS BEFORE YOU MET.

You just said a moment ago you sent her copy of your visa and she met you at airport. When did you buy her tickets? Obviously not before you met.

We live in an amazing world of international electronic commerce. I suggest you enter the 21st century. 

Also this statment leads one to beleive you bought tickets more then one time before you met. So how many tickets you buy that she did not show up for? Your statment does say tickets and you did not meet yet.

You see, this is a prime example of people drawing conclusions based on a misunderstanding and then reinforced by paranoid fantasy. Let me try to explain to you in simple language; I bought her e-tickets using my money. She then went to the airport and flew to the place where I met her using those very same e-tickets bought with my money.

At this point you are just determined to push your idea he should buy a stranger a $2400 ticket. So much so that your story on your meeting with fiancee has changed to prove your points. This only leads one to believe inside even you know you are giving bad advice. If you have to change your stories to fit your point this shows even you did not go the route you are now recommending.

Dude, we all give advice based on our own personal experiences. And, if you read my posts, I'm telling him to weigh the risks against the benefits and he has to make that choice. Personally, in my situation I would not have hesitated to buy a non-refundable e-ticket for the woman that would become my fiancée even after only talking with her for some hours on the phone. Why? Because I was the one that talked to her on the phone and it was damn obvious she wasn't a scammer.

Like I said. Since you want to push your advice to this person that he should buy a $2400 ticket for a stranger and gets scammed, are you going to pay him back?
I know the answer to this already. NO. Then do not give him such advice.

Stupid statement. 

He has many options for visiting her so do not make it seem like he does not.

Has he? I already asked if he can make a journey to see her soon and I didn't see a reply to that.

He has the ability to contact other women from the area as back up plans if all does not go well.
He has ability to get agency information from area to set up dates if all does not go well.
He has ability for many backup plans if all does not go well.
He joined a site for the purpose of meeting FSU Women. He has interest. He should go there and get his feet wet. If the lady is real and it works. GREAT. If not he has backup plans. Those plans are alot better then possibly falling for biggest scam out there.
He is taking risk of losing $2400. If lady really does come and things do not go well he has nothing. His feet are not wet and he is right at the beinging with no other prospects and lots of money lost (not to mention this is if it is not even a scam being pulled on him).

Yeah, and he could do all of that as well.

[Ade]

Did you send her $2400? Would you have sent her $2400?

Stop making a habit of misrepresenting what I say.

He hasn't spent a lot of time, he said as much. A 2 hour phone call which was a very good conversation and a few emails. Certainly not the 2 months you seem to want to point to

See above and go read my posts again.

Yes he said that, he doesn't mind the money so much. Do you think he wouldn't mind the money if she didn't show up? He's feeling real good about her now. Euphoric with the fantasy.  Listen, my advice to slow down was solid when I posted it and still is now. You seem to want to poop all over it because it was from me. I deduce this because yours makes no sense. Your "Oh yeah send her the money you have nothing to lose" advice is just plain bad.

Because it was from you? You are kidding me right? You honestly think I really give damn about you? 

This pursuit is fraught with scams at every angle and you know this. You should be ashamed.

Yeah, life is harsh. What I find bizarre is that people here make absolute judgements on very little information, extrapolating to the extreme to reach conclusions which are fragile at best.

I see nothing in what James has said that fingers this woman as a scammer. All I see are a few proclaiming that there's a 99% chance that she is with absolutely no evidence other than she happens to have a tourist visa. Could she be? Yes, of course there's always a risk, but given what we know there is as much chance that the woman you are seeing is a GCG. Why not dump her just in case?