IP tracing? is this an exact science?

[bingolingo]

Hey everyone,

Need to explain my situation here, hope someone can help....

I've been chatting via e-mail to a girl who I first spotted on a UK dating site which is free for girls to subscribe to. I pinged out a message and got one back containing a UK e-mail address and a welcome to contact.
I'd figured from the look of her and the sketchy english in the profile that she was Eastern European, but there are literally hundreds of thousands of EE's in the UK now, so this is nothing out of the ordinary.
I asked her where she was from(meaning originally) in my first mail and she responded that she was in fact a RW living in Omsk, and that she hadnt sought to deceive me, but that she couldnt register on the site with a Russian address, and that she had 'come casually' to the site having received a spam mail from the site.
I have tried tracing her IP, but it refers me back to the dead centre of London(google earth shows me the same centre, within a few hundred yards.)
Having exchanged several e-mails now, nothing she has said has given me reason to be suspicious that she is anyone other than who she says. Her photos are not slutty and I can see they have all been taken at different times,(hair length, colour etc...) and locations, (Home, Club, webcam, restaurant, black tie do) All looks perfectly natural and not professional shots.
She responds directly to questions in my e-mails, so i'm sure they are being read, and the time patterns check out.
I asked for her number, but in her next repsonse she asked for mine, I supplied it(whats the harm) and reiterated that i had asked for hers, and just received another mail containing a number, (middle of the night there so haven't tried it yet).
A google search of her e-mail returns nothing and i'm not about to compromise the integrity of any future relationship by indescriminately bandying her pics around various anti scam sites.
I've read examples of scam letters on various sites and wouldnt have been taken in by them, so i guess what I'm asking is, just how sophisticated can a scammer be?

Any thoughts welcome?

[Sculpto]

Bingo..
there are a lot of factors that can impact the success of an ip search.  If you are asking the question you may not be doing it properly to get correct or accurate results.  You are welcome to send the entire header to me in PM and I will verify your results. 

Based on what you have said I am indifferent at this point about the scam potential.  Could be real, could be scam.  You are going to have to persist for a while to know.

Best of luck. 

[Sculpto]

Bingo I am afraid it doesnt look good.  Here is why...

the originating ip is obscured.. probably by the use of a proxy.  If that wasn't bad enough the mailing program is the Bat.  If it was either of those issues alone I would say the jury is still out, but, given that both are in use it looks like a scammer with another step up on the ladder of sophistication.

You will probably get a phone call from the GF of the scammer.  But it will not be real.

You may ask Siberia2k, who as I remember is from Omsk, to verify the girl.  You can explain to her that you have a friend in Omsk who has offered to facilitate.  I suspect once you do that she will disappear.

I can still be wrong.. but all the signs are pointing...

[bingolingo]

thanks for looking into that for me sculpto, i was aware that the bat! was a mass mailer, but how does that explain the intimacy of her replies? do you think this is a lone scammer with a hot chick who doesnt mind her pics being exchanged for a new pair of gucci's?
Just my luck to get a smart one!

[groovlstk]

This woman has given you absolutely no reason to doubt what she's told you. She hasn't asked you for $, or for a ticket to come visit you.

Why are you so intent on investigating her? Would you do the same for a local UK woman you were chatting with?

[bingolingo]

I guess i wouldnt groov, and my gut instinct is to trust her. however i have no prior experience of dating scams and thats why i'm here, to draw on the experience of those that have. ultimately, I'm not at any point, going to be sending my money to the FSU, so I'm not actually going to be financially scammed, but the prospect of intimating with a fat bearded bloke in siberia makes me feel a little ill.....She seems pretty genuine to me, so again, just how sophisticated can a scammer be?

[Sculpto]

dont jump to conclusions Bingo.  There can be legit reasons why the ip is obscured and the Bat is in use.  For example.. the most convenient internet cafe may do the mailing for clients and they may obscure their ip address to protect from DDOS attacks.  

So, again, do not jump to conclusions.  Continue corresponding and see what happens.  

How many letters have you had with her?

[Sculpto]

.She seems pretty genuine to me, so again, just how sophisticated can a scammer be?

I had an ongoing battle with a scammer a couple of years ago.  I know it was the same person or persons because the MO was pretty much the same each time.  The letters were individually crafted and there was someone who called me on the phone with a nice female voice and decent English.  They didn't pitch the "disaster" too soon in any of the cases.  But, in each one when they did I ended the correspondence with some "kind" words.  On the final attempt I offered to coach them on how to do it right for a cut of the profits.  HAHAHA!    But, that was what finally stopped it.  I believe I became a subject of pride for this scammer.. I think she really wanted to fool me just because she couldn't. 

Bottom line for me on scammers.. there are all kinds of them and a variety of levels of sophistication and organization.  All of them are dangerous but some of them can do a damn good job of fooling you.  Be careful and NEVER send money!

[JR]

Proxy IP is a bad sign.

Bat is a bad sign.

But remember those are only signs.

She may be sending you mail thru her place of employment which has legitimate need of Bat's indented use.

If she's writing personal responses to your letters, hasn't fallen in love with you on or about the fourth letter and you don't recieve the "money" request after 14 letters or so you have a real, interested person on your hands.

NEVER SEND MONEY ! ! ! !

Try to get her on ICQ or Skype and use a webcam.

If you like her, get on a plane and go see her.

[bingolingo]

Hey jolly,
I suggested the possibility of meeting her someday, after she expressed that it would be a 'dream', and she responded that she felt it was too soon to think about meeting. i had only thrown it in there to see if she suggested coming to the uk. was quite impressed by that, wouldnt think it was a scammers nature to slow things down?

[Sculpto]

She may be sending you mail thru her place of employment which has legitimate need of Bat's indented use.

also true.  good point.

If she's writing personal responses to your letters, hasn't fallen in love with you on or about the fourth letter and you don't recieve the "money" request after 14 letters or so you have a real, interested person on your hands.

I think if she falls in love with you over email regardless of the stage of letter writing and even chatting it is not a good sign.  Even if someone is not a scammer and falls in love via the internet without having met in real life there is a big disappointment waiting for one or both people.  

NEVER SEND MONEY ! ! ! !

Try to get her on ICQ or Skype and use a webcam.

YES YES YES

If you like her, get on a plane and go see her.

Better yet, get her to come see you, which seems to be an emerging trend, and a good one IMO.  

[Sculpto]

Hey jolly,
I suggested the possibility of meeting her someday, after she expressed that it would be a 'dream', and she responded that she felt it was too soon to think about meeting. i had only thrown it in there to see if she suggested coming to the uk. was quite impressed by that, wouldnt think it was a scammers nature to slow things down?

Bingo.. you need to get the girl into a live chat with webcam and talk to her on the phone at the same time.  That will at least confirm her id.  Her cooling the idea of meeting can go either way.. she can be cautious and real, or, she can sense your suspicions and is playing a waiting game. 

But really the best way is to get off the letter writing and into chat.  If she devotes a lot of time to you in chat it would be a sign in favor of non-scam simply because time is money and Russian ain't cheap.

[bingolingo]

furthermore sculpto, i read elsewhere that it was considered a good plan to meet on neutral territory? I've got a holiday apartment in Turkey, and as far as i know there are no visa issues for russians there.
maybe I should start this in another thread, but i am not actually sure what level of affection i should expect from a russian girl? I had a couple of Turkish gf's before and they tend to wear their hearts on their sleeves? Not all battle scarred like us westerners are they?

[JR]

Hey jolly,
I suggested the possibility of meeting her someday, after she expressed that it would be a 'dream', and she responded that she felt it was too soon to think about meeting. i had only thrown it in there to see if she suggested coming to the uk. was quite impressed by that, wouldnt think it was a scammers nature to slow things down?

Yes and no.

Yes first, it seems to be a good indicator.

No, because I've got one now (a scammer) the cleverest by far that I've run into and she is a "slow one." But that doesn't mean you are being scammed. It just means you need to keep your radar on. Use the Ten Commandments and  healthy dose of common sense.

If she still doesn't want to meet you after six weeks to two months I'd day move on regardless.

[Sculpto]

furthermore sculpto, i read elsewhere that it was considered a good plan to meet on neutral territory? I've got a holiday apartment in Turkey, and as far as i know there are no visa issues for russians there.
maybe I should start this in another thread, but i am not actually sure what level of affection i should expect from a russian girl? I had a couple of Turkish gf's before and they tend to wear their hearts on their sleeves? Not all battle scarred like us westerners are they?

the neutral ground debate goes on and on.  I have so far only met ladies on their turf and I am frankly very tired of it.

[bingolingo]

sculpto?, is there a danger that you could scare off a perfectly good girl by acting like MI5?(CIA to you )
for example, asking her to talk on the phone whilst on messenger? all a bit jason bourne isnt it?
i'm just wondering how i would feel if someone were that suspicious of me and I knew i was perfectly genuine? Guess theres a fine line with these things.

So to sum up? I should persevere and see what else comes up, yes?

[KievHarmony]

sculpto?, is there a danger that you could scare off a perfectly good girl by acting like MI5?(CIA to you )
for example, asking her to talk on the phone whilst on messenger? all a bit jason bourne isnt it?
i'm just wondering how i would feel if someone were that suspicious of me and I knew i was perfectly genuine? Guess theres a fine line with these things.

So to sum up? I should persevere and see what else comes up, yes?

and how did you trace her IP ? geolocating is probably one of the less accurate thing on the net... I have one friend in russia who is using a US phone number...why ? He is using vonage phone service. Be very careful with any information you get. The only source that will be accurate is the technical RIPE contact of the subnet (for Europe)

[Sculpto]

sculpto?, is there a danger that you could scare off a perfectly good girl by acting like MI5?(CIA to you )
for example, asking her to talk on the phone whilst on messenger? all a bit jason bourne isnt it?
i'm just wondering how i would feel if someone were that suspicious of me and I knew i was perfectly genuine? Guess theres a fine line with these things.

So to sum up? I should persevere and see what else comes up, yes?

nah you can make it part of the game.. i used to call my girl when I had her on cam all the time.. just to be funny

[Sculpto]

and how did you trace her IP ? geolocating is probably one of the less accurate thing on the net... I have one friend in russia who is using a US phone number...why ? He is using vonage phone service. Be very careful with any information you get. The only source that will be accurate is the technical RIPE contact of the subnet (for Europe)

the header indicated masks and ghosts.. I didnt even bother to do a search as I could see the originating ip was obscured

[I/O]

Scam. No Siberian woman I know "doesn't want to meet soon." They are a very friendly and open race of people. They will meet you in a heartbeat, even if it is only from curiosity.

I/O

 

[bingolingo]

IO,
yes, but we have only exchanged a few e-mails,
i am only using western women as a frame of reference, but I would think that any girl, anywhere in the world, would want to be sure before meeting a stranger? again, i have no real frame of reference?

[Sculpto]

Bingo shared her letters with me.  I am leaning heavily towards scam.  But, there is no reason not to play it out and see what happens.  based on the letter progression he should see the "growing affection" letter very soon.

[JR]

Almost all FSUW want to meet ASAP. It doesn't mean they want to marry you it means they see writing endless emails as a waste of time.
Scammers on the other hand fear the meeting. Pro-Daters want the meeting. Again, NEVER SEND MONEY and when visiting if she takes you from the airport to the mall turn around and leave

[ECOCKS]

Hey Bingo, I may have missed it but are you paying for the correspondence? Is a translator involved by any chance? Has she given you her phone and actual physical address? as has been repeated here MANY times, everyone has access to a phone (cell or regular) to receive calls and only some gal truly squirreled away at some farm in the Siberian tundra can't get to an internet cafe.

The advice about moving her to Skype or ICQ with a webcam is excellent and highly recommended. As JR said, read through the 10 Commandments on the masthead of the Home Page.

Good Luck!

[I/O]

IO,
yes, but we have only exchanged a few e-mails,
i am only using western women as a frame of reference, but I would think that any girl, anywhere in the world, would want to be sure before meeting a stranger? again, i have no real frame of reference?

They'll meet you in a minute if they're real.

BTW, he won't be fat and bearded (although it's possible), he'll be Vova average, prolly 23-35, average build, short hair cut and wears black jeans if that sort of thing floats your boat . Find an S-7 flight number DME-OMS, tell her your on that flight and you'll never hear from HIM again. Honey is ball baring, not child baring.

I/O